2011, my father-in-law...and COBOL

By | January 3, 2011, 7:27am PST

Summary: To say that programming was inefficient was an understatement. Such was IT in the late 1970s.

It’s early in the morning of the first Monday of 2011. I just checked Drudge Report for the first time today. So far, there doesn’t appear to be any idiocy (any new idiocy, anyway) coming out of Congress or Washington.

Oh, sure, the new, incoming Congress is trying to find a way to crucify the President and any surviving members of the 111th United States Congress for their twin crimes of keeping the economy from imploding and trying to care for our citizenry, but that’s not really new news, at least for the first Monday morning of the year.

That means we’re all clear (at least for the moment) to look back on our holiday week off and think about family, food, tech support, and COBOL.

[At this point, if this were a movie, you'd hear sounds of tires screeching, see quick shots a head snapping around to stare, and then horrified expressions among just-happened-to-be-there onlookers.]

COBOL? CO-BOL?!? CO-What?

For those of you younger than the Baby Boomer generation, COBOL stands for COmmon Business Oriented Language and was hugely popular in the 60s and 70s as a data processing language. Today, we’d use Oracle or MySQL along with languages like Ruby, Python, or PHP to accomplish much of the same thing.

I was a teenage COBOL programmer.

One episode from my misspent youth will illustrate COBOL and how generally anachronistic it is to today’s development technologies.

It was 1979 and I was looking for a summer job after freshman year. I found a listing for a summer COBOL programmer gig at International Paper. Now, as it turns out, I didn’t know and hadn’t ever seen COBOL, but to me a programming language was a programming language, so given a night with a book, I could learn it enough to pass an interview.

And that’s just what I did. I found out there was going to be a COBOL test at my interview, so I crammed. I didn’t know COBOL, but as a freshman, I certainly knew how to cram. I got the highest score the Northeast Regional Data Center had ever seen and got my summer job.

So there I was. In college, I’d been programming DEC PDP-10s, using teletypes, DECwriters, and ADM-3A glass teletypes, so I had some idea of so-called “interactive” programming.

But at International Paper, COBOL was programmed on punch cards (I’d also used punch cards to program Fortran in college). If you’ve never used punch cards, they were horrid beasts. You’d type one line of code per card, so large programs lived on entire cartons filled with cards.

You’d hand your stack of cards (remember, we’re talking physical cards) to a computer operator, who’d lug the stack (about 5 to 15 pounds of paper), dump the deck into a card reader, the job would run, and you’d get a paper printout with your output.

An entire evolution of this could take anywhere from 15 minutes to overnight, depending on the workload in the data center.

Interactive, it was not.

If you made one error in your code, you’d have to start all over. And, if for some reason you dropped your deck of cards, you’d spend your entire day trying to put them back in order, one physical card at a time.

Such was IT in the late 1970s.

So, at International Paper, they programmed COBOL professionally using punch cards. Because this was a mainstream, professional data processing operation (they called it DP back in the day, before DP became more common as a porn star term), the programmers didn’t even punch their own cards.

Oh, no. Instead, programmers spent their days filling out what were called “coding forms”. These were spreadsheet-like paper documents, where you’d hand write (as in, with a pencil) your code.

You’d then send the coding forms to the basement, where teams of old ladies (I was 17, they all seemed like cranky old ladies at the time), would then transfer your hand-written programming statements to punch cards, and then a mailroom clerk would deliver the boxes of cards to the computer room (raised floors and all), the “job” would run, and you’d get your stack of printout with the results back — usually two or three days later.

To say that programming was inefficient was an understatement.

But that was the late 1970s. Today, we have IDEs (Interactive Development Environments) and whether you’re using Visual Studio or some other development environment, the code-test-revise cycle takes seconds rather than days. Of course, our stuff is also vastly more complex, but that’s a story for another article.

Two more thoughts before we get back to families and tech support, which is where our story began. First, during my summer of code at International Paper, I shared an office with another programmer, an “old” guy in his 40s. He got stuck with the 17-year-old, so it’s anyone’s guess how well loved he was there. But he imparted to me what he considered to be the most important wisdom of the day.

He told me, with deadly seriousness, “COBOL is life.”

Second, that summer was also, thankfully, the last time I coded COBOL and used punch cards.

Let’s get back to the family side of our story.

To most civilians (and by “civilians”, I mean people who are not like us techies), Thanksgiving is their single best chance to get tech support. We techies are a captive audience and each and every Thanksgiving, we’re presented with problem computers and phones like olden-day shaman were presented with sick babies to heal.

Christmas, to civilians, isn’t a holiday celebration. Christmas is their last-chance day for real tech support, at least until mid-May, when they generally know we’ll be visiting Mom and can be accosted to do one more malware removal pass or Windows reinstall before they have that long wait over the summer and early fall until the following Thanksgiving.

So Christmas is big in family tech support land.

To many of us techies, however, the big event is the week between Christmas and New Year’s Eve, because that’s the week everything’s generally really slow, so that’s the week we spend installing servers, upgrading our data centers, and generally doing all the stuff we never get time for because there are users out there pulling on our shirt-tails and saying, beseechingly, “Please, sir, may I have some more?”

Into that whole family holiday bouillabaisse this year came…my in-laws.

This year, my in-laws came down to Florida from New Jersey to spend the Christmas holiday with my wife and me. And this is where our story of family and tech support merges with COBOL.

Shortly after my in-laws arrived, I went upstairs to my home office to hide. I’m not exactly a family-oriented dude and I actually had work deliverables to complete while the old, retired people came down to cavort in our toxic Floridian sun.

I keep forgetting that my father-in-law (hereinafter referenced as FiL) used to be a COBOL programmer for a big company because his grasp of contemporary technical subjects is disturbingly small. To be fair, he got his technical chops back in the punch card days, and so technologies like home networking must seem more like science fiction than even rocket science.

So, I’m upstairs in my office, writing (and hiding) and hear my wife calling my name from the bottom of the steps. She wants to know if I can help FiL open a .DTL file. This does not sound good. But I go downstairs.

The man still keeps notes on punch cards. Apparently, he’s been hoarding punch cards since the 70s and 80s. Now, to be fair, back then, punch cards were awesome for note-taking, but still, we’re talking decades.

Anyway, apparently FiL wrote some DOS-based COBOL program decades ago, which he still uses to keep his checkbook register. He brought the thing with him on a thumb drive, a technology, it seems, he knows about.

He managed to talk my wife into letting him edit this thing on her laptop, which he does through DOS and EDIT. Why he doesn’t use Quicken is an open question.

To be fair, COBOL still exists. There’s even an object-oriented update that came into being around 2002 or so. But still — DOS, EDIT, COBOL, and punch cards? Yes, in my house. On the same computer my wife uses to load and manage our 20 terabyte media server. COBOL. Seriously. Last week.

What were your holiday tech support experiences like? TalkBack below. Have a great 2011! Remember, just one more year until 2012.

P.S. When I told TechBroiler’s Jason Perlow about my FiL, his punch cards, and COBOL, Jason responded in his usually twisted little way with the following message:

000010 IDENTIFICATION DIVISION.
000020 PROGRAM-ID. ANNOY MY WIFE AND MY SON-IN-LAW DURING THE HOLIDAYS.
000030 AUTHOR. FATHER-IN-LAW OF GEWIRTZ, DAVID.
000040 DATE-WRITTEN. DECEMBER 2010.
000041
000050 ENVIRONMENT DIVISION.
000060 INPUT-OUTPUT SECTION.
000070 FILE-CONTROL.
000080 SELECT DAVID-FILE ASSIGN TO DAVID.
000090 ORGANIZATION IS LINE SEQUENTIAL.
000100 SELECT WIFE-OUT ASSIGN TO WIFE.
000110 ORGANIZATION IS LINE SEQUENTIAL.
000120
000130 DATA DIVISION.
000140 FILE SECTION.
000150 FD DAVID-IN.
000160 RECORD CONTAINS 4096 CHARACTERS.
000170 DATA RECORD IS DAVID-IN.
000180 01 DAVID-IN PIC X(4096).
000190
000200 FD WIFE-OUT 000210 RECORD CONTAINS 80 CHARACTERS.
000220 DATA RECORD IS WIFE-OUT.
000230 01 WIFE-OUT PIC X(80).
000240
000250 WORKING-STORAGE SECTION.
000260 01 DATA-REMAINS-SWITCH PIC X(2) VALUE SPACES.
000261 01 RECORDS-WRITTEN PIC 99.
000270
000319
000320 PROCEDURE DIVISION.
000321
000330 PISS-OFF-EVERYONE.
000340 OPEN INPUT DAVID-FILE.
000350 OUTPUT WIFE-FILE.
000351 MOVE ZERO TO RECORDS-WRITTEN.
000360 READ DAVID-FILE.
000370 AT END MOVE ‘NO’ TO DATA-REMAINS-SWITCH.
000380 END-READ.
000420 CLOSE DAVID-FILE.
000430 PISS-OFF-EVERYONE.
000440 STOP RUN.

Gee, uh, thanks, Jason. Yeah, um, thanks!

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RE: 2011, my father-in-law...and COBOL
raul omar 27th May
en 1988 me dieron una beca para asistir a un curso de lenguaje de programaci?n Cobol . Es un lenguaje estructurado y experto en manejar grandes bases de datos. Hoy recib? un mail " tenemos libre la vacante de Cobol".
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RE: 2011, my father-in-law...and COBOL
Lord Minty 3rd Jan 2011
Man that is a brilliant post to start 2011.

And "I was teenage COBOL programmer" too...
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Using the latest netbeans IDE the other day
Richard Flude Updated - 3rd Jan 2011
I too was reflecting on where I started (68k assembly). Fortunately I avoided the punch cards.

COBOL was one of the required languages at uni, as was Fortran and Pascal. I've never had the need for them commerically.

Somethings haven't change, 40 is still old. Not many industries where you can be the chief at 40 and not surprise anyone.

Just as impressive as the capabilities of today's tools is the price. It cost next to nothing today.
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COBOL , Grace Murray and Baby Boomers
kenosha77a 3rd Jan 2011
Great article, David (with an assist by Jason), and with a neatly disguised history lesson thrown in for good measure.

But as an "old" Navy man how could you avoid writing about COBOL without mentioning Rear Admiral "Amazing Grace" Murray Hopper?

I first became aware of her from a "60 Minutes" segment and the one lasting impression I have from that early 80's telecast is best summed up by the following Wikipedia except. "Grace Hopper is famous for her nanoseconds visual aid. People (such as generals and admirals) used to ask her why satellite communication took so long. She started handing out pieces of wire which were just under one foot long, which is the distance that light travels in one nanosecond. She gave these pieces of wire the metonym "nanoseconds." Later she used the same pieces of wire to illustrate why computers had to be small to be fast. At many of her talks and visits, she handed out "nanoseconds" to everyone in the audience, contrasting them with a coil of wire nearly a thousand feet long, representing a microseconds. Later, while giving these lectures while working for DEC, she passed out packets of pepper which she called picoseconds."

My first experience with punch cards was an early 70's Wayne State University computer class where "great" strides in IBM PL/I programming took place by us fortunate undergraduates. Its funny now, thinking back, but I learned to program in Fortran, Pascal and Basic only later on my home Apple II + computer system in the early 80's.

By the late 80's, I had graduated to programming in Lisp and Prolog on my Amiga system during my A.I. fling years. Finally, like all us Baby Boomers, we were seduced by the Corporate Dark Side and I resorted to programming in Visual Basic on various Corporate projects.

Fortunately, I have retired in time to save my soul and pursue other matters.

Thanks for the walk down memory lane today, David. It was a good way to start off the year.
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Boy oh boy...hey, you can say what you want about COBOL (and it's direct predecessor, Commercial Translator), but let me tell you, I am still programmin in it, on a simulator program on DOS...I can argue about all day...maybe it's inefficient, maybe it's outdated, maybe it's whatever you say...but that's the first try at an application. After 17 upgrades and who knows how many bug fixes, the spaghetti code in other languages becomes difficult to follow. The updates to the application I am working on now could not be done in a year or more, and I am doing my best to get in done in a few months. The productivity is amazing. Now, I am good at it, and I understand the differences in the actual data representations underlying it, (I wrote huge sections of various IBM COBOL compilers for new machines, along with an amazing group, starting in 1960, the year I graduated from college. We even had to punch cards with the compiler code itself, then carry them down to the concourse level of the Time-Life building (and even try to get them back in the boxes in the correct order when they spilled) but I still believe it has it's advantages. So I'm forwarding this column to a bunch of my former colleagues, and they will let you know what they think!
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RE: 2011, my father-in-law...and COBOL
allentbuford 3rd Jan 2011
These inefficient languages such as Fortran and Cobol ran every major coporations business operations for more than 20 years and helped put men on the moon with processors less powerful than your X-Box. Maybe not as impressive as a You-Tube video or facebook but not bad either...
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Whoa, there! These languages were NOT inefficient ...
mwagner@... Updated - 3rd Jan 2011
@allentbuford ... if you are talking about computer time, not human time.

Once compiled, these languages were exceedingly efficient (especailly Fortran) but they were inefficient to write and debug.

In the 1960's and 70's, multimillion dollar mainframes measured machine cycles in hundreds of microseconds and programmers were paid under $10 per hour. Key punch operators were earning much less. Labor was inexpensive and computer time was measured in hundreds of dollars per hour.

Today, a programmer can command between 30 and 150 dollars an hour and for under a thousand dollars one can acquire a very fast personal computer. Mainframes have been replaced by blade servers costing under $20,000 which can support multiple servers.

Today, labor is expensive but hardware is cheap. Efficient machine code is no longer a priority. Efficient use of labor is however so producing working code is all that matters.

That said, I think a lot of research is still done in Fortran because it is so well-suited to numerical techniques for massively parallel processing.
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Amen
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Hey, I clicked the 'edit' key, corrected my previous entry, and NOTHING happened...so my conclusion is: You're obviously not programming in COBOL.
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And, hey, I'm running out right now to buy an iPad!
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RE: 2011, my father-in-law...and COBOL
valerie@... 3rd Jan 2011
You have an unwanted period at the end of line 340 and you can't have two paragraphs with the same name (lines 330 & 430). That's just off the top of my head and ignores little things like failing to loop through the input file, not actually doing anything with the data you did read, and not closing the wife-out file. Yeah, I spent a decade or so programming COBOL and it was a golden era in my life.

As for your article, I found it ageist and annoying but I suppose at your age I knew everything too and thought the old fossils were "past it". Hopefully you, too, will learn better as you get older and wiser.
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@valerie@... Thank you, Valerie, for the ageist support!
I "got my chops" when spaghetti was not yet code, but unit record machine patchboard wiring, and my lower division college programming courses were half a semester of FORTRAN II, submitting one final program on 80-column worksheets to be processed by the county's DP facility.
I'm still working, still launching satellites and building embedded applications, despite 40 being "still old", despite recently hitting that superannuated mark. (Oh, yeah, that's 0x40, but hey, what's in a number?)

Dave
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Contributr
RE: 2011, my father-in-law...and COBOL
David Gewirtz 7th Jan 2011
@valerie@... I'm not ageist at all. In fact, I'm an old fart myself, having programmed back in the 1970s.

It's just that COBOL, as a language, is out of date. I guess that makes me a linguist. Heh, I crack myself up!
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RE: 2011, my father-in-law...and COBOL
holidaydrive@... 3rd Jan 2011
I worked at a bank in the 80's, very object oriented calling subroutines. Average program was 20,000 lines... Then there was Reader's Digest 100,000 line program, 32k record size, super duper spigeti code, misspeling in the procedure names, they did not believe in subroutines because it took to much space.. And they were proud of how it all worked. I just knew there had to be a better way. And then came VB!!!
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RE: 2011, my father-in-law...and COBOL
mwagner@... 3rd Jan 2011
@holidaydrive@... "spaghetti"
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WOW! Sure brings back memories ...
mwagner@... 3rd Jan 2011
... especially Jason's contribution.

I finished my MS in Computer Science in 1982 and, while I wrote very little COBOL, I debugged enough of other people's code to have nightmares.

I remember punching my own Hollerith cards in graduate school while learning ASSEMBLER but quickly moved to online files of 'virtual card decks' which could be submitted as "batch jobs" to the mainframe. (I actually knew someone who would write his code card-by-card while sitting at a keybunch machine!)

My first real job after grad school found me converting hundreds of decks of Hollerith punch cards into small on-line files of IBM JCL (Job Control Language) which could be included into a larger "virtual deck" for batch submission to the mainframe.

For what it is worth, the Hollerith punch card was invented by Herman Hollerith in the late Nineteenth Century. It was first used on a large scale for the 1890 census. It was last used on a large scale in Florida - on Election Day 2000 (the last US election of the Twentieth Century) - when "hanging chads" became the focus of the controversial election of George W. Bush.

Ah, those were the days!
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Contributr
RE: 2011, my father-in-law...and COBOL
David Gewirtz 3rd Jan 2011
@mwagner@... "I actually knew someone who would write his code card-by-card while sitting at a keybunch machine!"

I did that all the time, especially for the two very earliest programming classes I had in college. In fact, it was one of the things that infuriated the keypunch operators at International Paper. I hated (H-A-T-E-D) the coding forms, so I'd wander around until I found a free keypunch machine somewhere in the building, and start coding.

The thing was, there was a very strict hierarchy in the company and programmers weren't allowed to move desks (yep, got in trouble for that as well) or punch cards (that was a job for the hourly workers).

I had no idea of hierarchy and certainly couldn't grok that at 17, I was a higher-level employee than someone older than me. I also didn't understand that by doing their work, the keypunch women felt their jobs were threatened.

I just wanted to write code. I never coded COBOL after that summer, but it was certainly not the last time I got in trouble with employers or co-workers. Sigh.
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Such was IT in the late 1970s.

pfft... I coded COBOL in the early 90's. Of course that was the last coding I ever did. happy
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It took me most of a week to do a small freelance job, write and debug a custom VB macro for Excel. The code looked right. It worked right for some inputs but gave incorrect results for others. It turns out that there are obscure differences in the Office and VB object models. The "sort" function is from one model; comparison operators are from the other. You can guess the rest. So much for increased productivity! I could have written the whole thing in COBOL in under an hour!
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Holy mackerel !!! "trying to care for our citizenry" Way too much Kool Aid consumed by this Progressive. It is not the job of government to take care of the citizens. Must be the age difference I was taught to take care of myself, not be dependent.
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RE: 2011, my father-in-law...and COBOL
tonymcs@... 3rd Jan 2011
@wdcdba

Glenn Beck is that you?
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RE: 2011, my father-in-law...and COBOL
boomchuck1 4th Jan 2011
@wdcdba "trying to care for our citizenry"

No Social Security or Medicare for you! And go fight your own wars. PS, you'll have to buy your own gun.
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RE: 2011, my father-in-law...and COBOL
SteveInMalta Updated - 3rd Jan 2011
I started coding in COBOL in 1968 and yes we had Punch girls already then. We coded sheets of twenty lines of code and they punched it onto punch cards - by the way, if you dropped your box of two thousand cards then a quick sort on columns one to six would get them back in order - of course it seems like you were rather an idiot and didn't bother to put numbers in 1 - 6.

It was rather annoying that we only had two test shots for a program each day - one during working hours and one overnight and, of course, if the operations staff night shift wanted to go home early then they would simply tear a few cards and say the card reader had had a wreck thus your job was terminated early.

However, the great side of being a COBOL consultant is that since '68 it has paid a decent wage - was even on a contract two years ago and now after forty years of good earnings I am retired - tell me any current language which will do that. Spend a year or two mastering c++ or .Net and see where that gets you in five years time.
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I heard Grace Hopper speak many times and even had one of her "nanoseconds" which she initially scrounged from the Bell Telephone junk closets in the Pentagon (they were always changing phones around so there was plenty of pieces of wire around). If you were ever fortunate enough to hear her speak, she truly was inspirational -- and a character to boot. Ask some of her staff how her Admiral's flag was the skull and crossbones (great story).
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RE: 2011, my father-in-law...and COBOL
kenosha77a 3rd Jan 2011
@r_rosen
I wish I had had the honor of meeting her.
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OK, if we're doing war stories....
Not sure when it was, my boss got a call that the Ford Motor company could not compile their bomp (bill of materials processing) program, and if it didn't work, the whole model year would have to be delayed. I asked what happened, and he said they got a diagnostic saying 'table has exceeded maximum permissable size'. Replying to my question, program was something bigger than 40K cards. So I said, that's too big. They replied, well it used to work. I asked, how big was it when it worked. 32K cards! I was ecstatic! Can you imagine, it worked at 32K statements. So he didn't like my attitude and called Thomas Watson (himself.) So the next day I was on the plane to Detroit. (My boss says, they'll pick you up at the airport but make your own arrangements to get home, as if it doesn't work, they won't let you go. It turns out There was a table we kept stuff in, and the Linkage Editor had a restriction. So we put in the table with the same restriction. Oh, yes, the single machine shot I was allowed was at 6am the next day for about 1/2 hour, that's it. I put in code to process the table as I file, sorted it, got a clean compile, with a huge linkeditor output deck, and made them promise to rewrite the code into smaller modules, and went home. Called the Linkage Editor group in POK and warned them. Sat they're on the plane to Detroit.
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RE: 2011, my father-in-law...and COBOL
naomibloom@... 3rd Jan 2011
I loved every minute of your stroll down my memory lane and the comments. Like all real programmers of the 60's, I started with machine language, then Autocoder, so when I learned COBOL I thought I was in programmer productivity heaven. A dozen languages later, I wrote my last code in 1972, but I was the Queen of design and code walkthroughs, Weinberger-style, through the mid-80's on a series of custom software mega-projects. And those lessons have stayed with me. When we moved to Florida in 1999 (not to retire -- se http://InFullBloom.us for an update -- with heavy heart I sent my COBOL manuals to the recycling center.
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RE: 2011, my father-in-law...and COBOL
hardpretzel@... 3rd Jan 2011
"To say that programming was inefficient was an understatement. Such was IT in the late 1970s."

Bogus. Today's inefficiency comes from sloppy programming, and is often worse than (admittedly terrible) COBOL.
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RE: 2011, my father-in-law...and COBOL
Jim Dinkey 3rd Jan 2011
I'd love to find out who JGS is as I joined IBM April 25,1960 at Time Life as part of the Commercial Translator project for the 7070/7074. I was very wet behind the ears. Then eventually the Commercial Translator project was essentially usurped by DOD and COBOL '60 was started using the internal structure of Commercial Translator. Eventually I became Project Coordinator of 7074 COBOL but it ran so slowly that I wrote a letter saying we had speeded it up by a factor or three but that the next speed gain had to be from a rewrite. Then I moved to California where I am now. Became Project Manager Control Data 6000 COBOL and helped out with GE COBOL.

Have been taking care of a chemical company in Mountain View, California for 11 years as a retirement project.

Now that I am retired, I still keep my hand in with over 650 PC XP fixups and am head of two computer clubs with a total of 250 members.

Some of my old manuals just were donated to the Computer History Museum. Out of 12 feet the museum kept about 2 feet.
Good to hear from you.

jimdinkey@jimdinkey.com

Additional support:
www.pa-spaug.org

Jim
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Fond memories
Chris_Oz 3rd Jan 2011
Ah walking the card tray to the data centre for processing - an chance for some fresh air but a bit challenging in the rain. Enjoyed the cobol program too - pretty scary to understand it after soooo many years.
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Revoke David Gewirtz's Geek Card
Dr_Zinj 4th Jan 2011
Yeah, yeah, yeah, people have been saying COBOL is dead for 20 years. Just because COBOL is 40+ years old doesn't mean those who use it have one foot in the grave or are 4th stage Alzheimer patients. In fact, those who keep dissing the language show a rather alarming amount of ignorance in business I.T. since legacy COBOL applications are still being used to process approximately 70% of the world?s business data.

COBOL programmers ARE a niche market. But until the cost of maintaining that code significantly drops below the cost of redesigning and reprogramming with new code, and migrating the old databases; COBOL is still going to be around.

Besides, it was fun writing COBOL using object oriented programming principles. Who said you couldn't teach an old dog new tricks?

And David, you really should have more respect for your Father-in-Law. Dissing your wife's father is not the smartest marital move in the world.
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Fortran, Basic, C++ and the other stuff is for programming the computer. COBOL is for programming business procedures.
In the mid-70s Norsk Data AS had interactive ND-100 COBOL using incremental line-by-line compilation, full interactive debugging facilities as breakpoint settings, display variables, and running in step-by-step mode.
Originally developed by Ken Seidel, Flagstaff, AZ, for the Data General 16bit minicomputer, Norsk Data purchased his system, for the ND-10s. Further developed by Arne Lindheim, a genious norwegian programmer, never to write a line of COBOL himself. It generated machincode, fully compatible with Fortran and Basic, using the same runtime libraries.

COBOL was for professional programmers for professional businesses!

?ivind Marman, Oslo, Norway
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All I have to say is...."self-documenting"... give me a break..
program written in COBOL. It saves a lot of debugging time, and enhancement are much easier once the code tells them that "this is the area of code you need to look at".
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RE: 2011, my father-in-law...and COBOL
ThereThere 4th Jan 2011
Loved reading this. Cut my programming teeth on RPG (remember that), IBM Assembler and COBOL.

Retired in 2003 and COBOL was still in wide use where I worked.

PS: anyone remember what a 5081 is?
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Stop being such an AH and talk your FIL into QuickBooks or Google Spreadsheet. BTW, I have a friend that still programs in Cobol today. It runs on Linux and it's backend is Oracle. And it gets the job done. I was still programming in Honeywell Cobol in the 80s.
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RE: 2011, my father-in-law...and COBOL
cindystarks 4th Jan 2011
It was, however, the COBOL programmers who saved the world from a Y2K disaster because many of the programs to be converted were written in COBOL. They were the heroes of the moment.
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I coded my first FORTRAN program in the fall of '62. Later, whilst working at Lockheed in '67, used FORTRAN to create something I called a "spreadsheet" because I had a problem to solve -- balance the budget of our software project. Never could get those 13-column accounting sheets to add up and cross-foot, so I let the machine do it. Worked like a charm. I was quite proud of myself until my boss complained that my use of the computer was like driving a thumb tack with a sledge hammer. Sigh. Spreadsheet on a computer. Bah Humbug!
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Missed COBOL, but not FORTRAN !!
websquad 4th Jan 2011
I coded my first FORTRAN program in the fall of '62. Later, whilst working at Lockheed in '67, used FORTRAN to create something I called a "spreadsheet" because I had a problem to solve -- balance the budget of our software project. Never could get those 13-column accounting sheets to add up and cross-foot, so I let the machine do it. Worked like a charm. I was quite proud of myself until my boss complained that my use of the computer was like driving a thumb tack with a sledge hammer. Sigh. Spreadsheet on a computer. Bah Humbug!
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Re: .
PercySludge Updated - 4th Jan 2011

the EDIT doesn't work very well in Firefox!
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Re: Is it 2011? What a long strange trip it's been...
PercySludge Updated - 4th Jan 2011
Luke, I am your father... in law!
No teenager back then, I was an adult COBOL programmer for 4 - 5 years.
Gosh, I even met Grace Hopper once at a conference in Montreal, and shook her hand!
But I figured out being a techie was much more fun (and godlike). The boss rarely complained then, if I came in 90 minutes late with a hangover.
Back then we called techies "system programmers" - and it helped to be able to do hex arithmetic in your head, as well as program in Assembler language and install operating systems.
So I became a mainframe "expert" installing operating systems (and COBOL compilers).
And debugging COBOL programs: When a frustrated programmer would complain to me that the compiler doesn't work properly- "It must be wrong!", I would eventually have to figure out his/her syntax error.
Remember, son- the compiler is never wrong!
Now retired, I keep busy programming xhtml, php and the like. As well as building PCs.
But I still have my "green card" (ask your father in law).
I wish I'd kept a box or two of punch-cards after I converted them all to an online disk library, but sadly they were all taken home and consigned to my wood stove in the early '80s.
Imagine: I actually heated my house for a couple of weeks with a $250,000 payroll system!
PERCY
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RE: 2011, my father-in-law...and COBOL
oterojavier@... 4th Jan 2011
About 80% of financial transaccions finish in a bank main frame and 95% is in Cobol/DB2
Regards....
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Eh, by the time I got into computing, COBOL was already getting old. It wasn't until college that I actually learned some of it - apparently there are still colleges that teach it, despite that it's pretty much dead.

I suppose I could do it if I have to (I may even still have the book packed in somewhere) - but I'd be pretty reluctant. IMO it was time to move along to new stuff decades ago, and most places have moved on.
RE: "You?d hand your stack of cards (remember, we?re talking physical cards) to a computer operator, who?d lug the stack (about 5 to 15 pounds of paper), dump the deck into a card reader, the job would run, and you?d get a paper printout with your output."
_______________________________________________

Well I was an operator for a major hospital in the Montreal area back then. Several boxes of these cards were handed to us on weekly basis to load between the programmed start and end cards (I think the program was microbiology).

One of our less liked operators back then (which will remain anonymous) on more than one occasion faced the dreaded "punchcard flutter snowstorm" at the beginning of his shift.

I'de jimmy the card reader stack tray ( I think it was a IBM 3540) with a clip and a punch card.

When the first box was read into the reader they'de fly out the other side in a sort of grafitti punchcard flutter snowstorm .

If our unsuspecting operator was not near the card reader to press the stop button, he'd be faced with the sorry task of trying to collect and sort from various parts of the computer room all the cards on his return.

Oh well those were the good old days of DP.

Bantamcc..
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IDE
gayathrik31 4th Jan 2011
I thought IDE stood for Integrated (and not Interactive) Development Environment
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COBOL and the clueless
adornoe@... Updated - 4th Jan 2011
I learned COBOL a long time ago and made a good living with it. My experiences with the "old" programming languages included having to learn and use other languages as well, including IBM Assembler and Fortran, and NEAT (for NCR computers low-level programming) and TAL (for Tandem computers). I was proficient in all of them and used them all in for many different projects and at many different companies.

Yet, when it came to my preference for development, it was always COBOL when I had the choice. I could develop with COBOL what it would take somebody, including myself, twice as long or longer, using some of those lower-level languages.

Back in the middle 80s, while I was working at a bank, there was a newbie to the bank I was working at who, when he noticed that I was writing my programs using COBOL wanted to know why I had not upgraded my programming skills to C. He had been hired to write whatever programs we needed to be written in C. I told him that I was indeed proficient in C but that I deliberately chose COBOL because I could finish the jobs quicker. He challenged me and I accepted. There was a small project, or 3 separate steps (3 programs) which needed to be coded, and I challenged him to use his C language to do it, while I would do the same with COBOL. The challenge was to see who could code the project the quickest and have it performing according to specs. I recruited another programmer, a lady (from QA), who had been working alongside me for a couple of years, to be the judge at the end of the challenge.

Needless to say, I coded my version using COBOL and the "newbie" also coded his, and we turned in our resulting projects with results to the "judge". The newbie, once he had finished his project turned it in to the judge in slightly less than five weeks, results and all. The newbie wanted to know if he had done his job well and if he had beat me. The judge said that he had indeed performed his job well and that the output/results were as expected. Then the newbie asked if I had turned my project and results, and the lady judge told him that I had, and that it too performed as expected. The newbie remarked that, well, it looked like a tie, that both he and I had performed the task as per specifications and that there apparently was no clear winner. But, my QA lady friend then remarked to him that, there was more to the challenge that the newbie had forgotten. The newbie wanted to know what it was. The QA lady told him about how the challenge also was about how long it took to complete the project, coding and testing. The newbie then asked, and the QA lady told him that he had taken almost five weeks, while I had taken 4 days to do the same and that I had turned it in 4 weeks ahead of the newbie. The newbie was surprised and embarrassed and conceded that perhaps there was more to COBOL than he had expected. He learned a big lesson back then, and never challenged me again.

Now, I've moved on from COBOL but I still believe that COBOL (OOP version or not) would still be a more productive and robust language than most anything we have around today.


BTW, David, COBOL was and is a programming language and not something which inherently had database or i/o capabilities built in, like you suggest with the statement:

Today, wed use Oracle or MySQL along with languages like Ruby, Python, or PHP to accomplish much of the same thing.

The "database capabilities" were not part of the language although it had the i/o capabilities to handle SQL type i/o and sequential file handling. The language was separated from the data and not like your statement suggests (perhaps a typo?). Furthermore, COBOL was not the language of the 60s and 70s alone; it was very popular during the 80s and 90s and continues being widely used today.

And, oh, one more thing...

Even in the late 70s and early 80s, the punched-card machines started being faded out, and programming was done "interactively" on a keyboard/monitor combination. In fact, though I developed using COBOL during the 80s and 90s, I never touched a punched card for any of those 2 decades. So, your history is very lacking in that area.
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RE: 2011, my father-in-law...and COBOL
jameslsherman 4th Jan 2011
2+ years ago after Hurricane Ike hit our house and destroyed our garage, a box from my undergraduate days lay wasted in the aftermath... along with hundreds of Fortran punch cards. It took a natural disaster the scale of a category 4 hurricane to get me to finally throw them away.

Great story.
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000040 DATE-WRITTEN. 101201

Didn't the Y2K listeria demonstrate the need for a 2 digit year date code?
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n/t
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Still swimming in it
ramesh_vishveshwar 4th Jan 2011
Probably, this will make most of you stare, but I admit.. I am still coding in COBOL on a z-series mainframe. Billions of lines are still running in COBOL and supporting some ******** financial operations. Maybe, COBOL works best for these applications.. or maybe, people are just too lazy to rewrite the programs.
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Loved it
boomchuck1 4th Jan 2011
The fun COBOL code at the end sure brought back memories of many batch and CICS programs I wrote or maintained. But in the end I was glad to move from COBOL to dBase III and start working on the micro computers as we called them. The test and modify style of programming fit me much better. Also, not having to wait 3 hours for your compile to run then have the program sit in the queue waiting for someone to load a tape!!! Those were days I don't miss.
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en 1988 me dieron una beca para asistir a un curso de lenguaje de programaci?n Cobol . Es un lenguaje estructurado y experto en manejar grandes bases de datos. Hoy recib? un mail " tenemos libre la vacante de Cobol".

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