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Did Chinese security firm snag too many American security secrets before the barn door closed?

By | November 15, 2011, 4:16am PST

Summary: Just how much of Symantec’s security code does and has Huawei had access to? And how much of a risk does that present to American interests?

Let me be upfront about this: I do not trust this Huawei company. On the one hand, they could be like any other enterprise, trying to sell their products all across the world. On the other hand, they have ties to the Chinese military and keep trying to insert themselves into America’s networking infrastructure.

A few years ago, they tried to buy supercomputer technology by acquiring the assets of 3Leaf Systems. They tried to acquire networking giant 3Com back in 2008. Then, in 2010, they tried to insert themselves into the Sprint Nextel network.

In each of these cases, surprisingly wise heads in the U.S. government interceded and prevented the company’s incursion into our security infrastructure.

Now, you need to understand that while Huawei could be just another technology company, it probably isn’t. Their CEO is a former Chinese military officer, the company has known ties to the Chinese military, and — as we sadly know — there’s some concern about China’s behavior when it comes to the United States.

See also:

Back in April, I wrote a piece expressing my concern about Symantec’s joint venture with Huawei. I was very concerned that Huawei’s code could find its way into all of our computers via Symantec’s products (Disclosure: A long time ago, in a valley far, far away, I was an executive at Symantec).

Today, that threat may be reduced. I say “may” because there are still a lot of questions. Symantec is selling its stake in the joint venture back to Huawei.

Apparently, Symantec has chosen to distance itself from Huawei’s worrisome security shenanigans and wants to cash out of the venture. Symantec employees will be reassigned. The troubling part of this story is that Symantec will be getting royalties for seven years on technology that Huawei is using. This, presumably, means that Symantec’s security technology is visible and available to Huawei engineers.

And that’s the crux of this entire issue: just how much of Symantec’s security code does and has Huawei had access to? And how much of a risk does that present to American interests?

It remains a troubling relic of an ill-fated and ill-considered venture.

Articles on this from around the net:

I’ll leave you with one final thought. Huawei sells a line of network security appliances in America. Don’t. Buy. Them.

Thanks go to reader Dwight Kunder who pointed out this news to me this morning, just as I was having my first cup of coffee.

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Topics

Symantec Corp., Huawei Technologies Co. Ltd., Security, David Gewirtz

David Gewirtz, Distinguished Lecturer at CBS Interactive, is an author, U.S. policy advisor, and computer scientist. He is featured in The History Channel special The President's Book of Secrets.

Disclosure

David Gewirtz

At various times during his adult life, David has voted for both Democrats and Republicans, and has been disappointed by both. He is deeply disturbed by how partisanship has come before patriotism in America, which gives him the freedom to pick on both sides.

David is a frequent guest on TV and radio stations across America and can usually be heard or seen on-the-air at least once a week. He writes weekly commentary and analysis for CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360 and has been interviewed by Fox News, CNN, various ABC and NBC affiliates, and Canada’s Global TV. He has been a featured guest on National Public Radio and has also been featured on Voice of America, Radio Free Europe, and Radio Liberty where his commentaries on technology, industry, and emerging nations have been broadcast into 46 countries (all in their own unique translations).

David is the executive director of U.S. Strategic Perspective Institute, a nonprofit research and policy organization. He is the Cyberterrorism Advisor for the International Association for Counterterrorism & Security Professionals, a columnist for The Journal of Counterterrorism and Homeland Security and a special contributor to Frontline Security Magazine. He is a member of the FBI’s InfraGard program, the security partnership between the FBI and industry. David is also a member of the U.S. Naval Institute and the National Defense Industrial Association, the leading defense industry association promoting national security.

David is an advisory board member for the Technical Communications and Management Certificate program at the University of California, Berkeley extension. He is also a member of the instructional faculty at the University of California, Berkeley extension.

David’s “day job” is as publisher and editor-in-chief of ZATZ publishing, an online publisher of technical magazines. Other than than his ownership stake in Component Enterprises, Inc. (the parent company of ZATZ), David has no additional industry investments.

ZATZ has many advertisers who do, in part, provide for David’s lush income and extravagant lifestyle. Most of them are IBM and Lotus aftermarket suppliers, some of them make goodies for Microsoft Outlook, and a few make all sorts of strange mobile devices and add-on products. David has been a regular judge of the IBM Awards, but has no formal financial interest in or with IBM.

Because the ZATZ online magazines often review products, David and ZATZ are sent an overwhelming stream of unsolicited, silly, and often useless products to review. Because they’re such a pain to track and ship back, these products often wind up in a dumpster or fill up the corner of a large closet. Although David has no plans to review products in connection to his ZDNet blog, if he does do a product review, he will disclose any relationship completely in that posting.

Both through ZATZ and independently, David derives a small income through various advertising and sales relationships with Amazon.com and Google. These are minor relationships and they will not impede his willingness or ability to chastise either company should they deserve it.

David has many other business relationships, but none of them relate to anything he covers in his ZDNet blog. David does have a bit of the sales-guy bug and if he’s not doing a sales deal with someone at least once a month, he goes through withdrawal. He has a number of consulting clients, but none of them relate to anything he covers for ZDNet (and if they ever do, he will either disclose that fact, or decline to write about them).

Back in the 1980s, David held the unusual title of “Godfather” at Apple. He has written and published 40 incredibly simplistic applications for Apple’s iPhone.

Although David is forbidden to disclose the terms of his iPhone developer agreement, he isn’t drinking the Apple Kool Aid, will never be confused with a metrosexual, and feels free to mock Apple, and Apple users, any time the occasion permits, on alternate Tuesdays, or if he’s bored.

Biography

David Gewirtz

In addition to hosting the ZDNet Government and ZDNet DIY-IT blogs, CBS Interactive's Distinguished Lecturer David Gewirtz is an author, U.S. policy advisor, and computer scientist. He is featured in The History Channel special The President's Book of Secrets, is one of America's foremost cyber-security experts, and is a top expert on saving and creating jobs. He is also director of the U.S. Strategic Perspective Institute as well as the founder of ZATZ Publishing.

David is a member of FBI InfraGard, the Cyberwarfare Advisor for the International Association for Counterterrorism & Security Professionals, a columnist for The Journal of Counterterrorism and Homeland Security, and has been a regular CNN contributor, and a guest commentator for the Nieman Watchdog of the Nieman Foundation for Journalism at Harvard University. He is the author of Where Have All the Emails Gone?, the definitive study of email in the White House, as well as How To Save Jobs and The Flexible Enterprise, the classic book that served as a foundation for today's agile business movement.

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RE: Did Chinese security firm snag too many American security secrets before the barn door closed?
tom@... 30th Nov
@Wmou ,,, Yeah, and MS showed them three different ways to do it! If it stops piracy, regardless of how it's done, GOOOODDD!!!!!

Block .cn; it won't stop it all, but it'll stop most of their gibberish.
View in thread
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RE: Did Chinese security firm snag too many American security secrets before the barn door closed?
mustang335ahc 15th Nov
Spot on. Appreciate you conveying this concern to those who might understand it. Marty Young, Ct. USA
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RE: Did Chinese security firm snag too many American security secrets before the barn door closed?
UseYourHead 15th Nov
Yeah, I've already dumped Symantec and installed free Microsoft Security Essentials.
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RE: Did Chinese security firm snag too many American security secrets before the barn door closed?
Scarface Claw 15th Nov
@UseYourHead

Woops, you exchanged a useless paid anti-virus for a useless free anti-virus.
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RE: Did Chinese security firm snag too many American security secrets before the barn door closed?
PollyProteus 15th Nov
@Scarface Claw

MSE isn't useless, it works. I've personally seen it catch some "Drive by" crap in a VM that I created just to visit some known "drive by" websites to see what happens and if it would work.

Remember, the only really safe computer is one that's turned off.
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Symantec had secrets?
Net-Tech_z 15th Nov
Even their current products will happily without warning let in 2 year old virus/spywares. Just to make you feel better their software asks if (place ms exe here) should be allowed to access the internet or make changes. You would think the firewall would have been 'preprogrammed' with the usual stuff.
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RE: Did Chinese security firm snag too many American security secrets before the barn door closed?
phankhanhhung@... 15th Nov
You should never trust a China company, especially in this case. Thats all.
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RE: Did Chinese security firm snag too many American security secrets before the barn door closed?
Dr_Zinj 15th Nov
You shouldn't even be asking yourself how much you trust them. The fact is, they engaged in behavior that puts your data at risk, they are run by a member of that country's military, and they are a company in a country known to engage in computer espionage and sabotage.

You can't trust the chinese on I.T. issues any more than you can trust the current American President not to issue an order for your death if he thinks you're a terrorist.
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RE: Did Chinese security firm snag too many American security secrets before the barn door closed?
tom@... 30th Nov
@Dr_Zinj ,,, Uhh, don't look now, but it's not the prez putting out those orders, lol!
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RE: Did Chinese security firm snag too many American security secrets before the barn door closed?
Wmou 15th Nov
Your concern about Huawei is of course not unfounded, I'm sure cyberespionage between countries are rife, but put yourself in China's shoes, while you worry about lttle Huawei, they see a large US company entering virtually every single home in China by deliberately allowing pirated versions of their software to be used (when they can technically easily disable every PC that uses their software, as demonstrated by their sometimes use of warnings and black screens). Who can say whether any sleepers are placed in this software to be activated against China...
(See how conspiracy theories can always justify themselves?)
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RE: Did Chinese security firm snag too many American security secrets before the barn door closed?
oliver@... Updated - 16th Nov
@Wmou I am not sure that this is a fair point.

- The Chinese military is not a branch of the state of China but of the Chinese Communist Party.

- The Chinese legal system is not a branch of the state of China but of the Chinese Communist Party.

So, whatever the party, the military and their associates do is per definitionem legal in China. They do not have to adhere to laws. They are the law.

The scenario that you describe would be illegal for a US company.

Many big telco providers use Huawei products to build their LTE networks.

What if the party/military decides one day that it is no more legal to support network functions in countries with which they have an issue? Then remotely switch off routers, switches etc.?

Or if they decide that certain web pages are too much driven by topics like democracy and basic human rights and are therefore illegal to read? Then use their hardware to block these pages?

So, yes, both sides can do that. But only in China, this would be considered as legal.

Good read, by the way: http://www.fas.org/irp/world/china/docs/const.html
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RE: Did Chinese security firm snag too many American security secrets before the barn door closed?
sysop-dr 16th Nov
@Wmou Seeing how Microsoft gave China and Russia the source code to Windows they know there is no backdoor off switch in it. But at the same time we have already found backdoors and off switches in some products from China, i think they were fake versions of network switches. Why would they not also put them in their "legit" products.
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RE: Did Chinese security firm snag too many American security secrets before the barn door closed?
tkejlboom 18th Nov
@Wmou

Uh, apparently, you weren't paying attention. Microsoft DID try remotely detecting and shutting down "pirated" copies of software. I don't know why you think such a thing is easy? Detecting hardware changes? Do you have any idea how many millions of enterprise systems are virtualized?! Microsoft globally harmed their credibility and image in a desperate and futile attempt to curtail piracy of Windows XP. The assertion that they leak their OS in the first place is absurd.
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RE: Did Chinese security firm snag too many American security secrets before the barn door closed?
tom@... 30th Nov
@Wmou ,,, Yeah, and MS showed them three different ways to do it! If it stops piracy, regardless of how it's done, GOOOODDD!!!!!

Block .cn; it won't stop it all, but it'll stop most of their gibberish.
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RE: Did Chinese security firm snag too many American security secrets before the barn door closed?
NoAxToGrind 15th Nov
Folks, I have worked in China and gotten to know a few people in government and China's goals have never changed. World domination. They don't care if that is done with bullets, bits or dollars as long as they achieve their goal.
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RE: Did Chinese security firm snag too many American security secrets before the barn door closed?
Wmou 15th Nov
@mlev
US airforce vs China airforce
US Navy vs China (almost non-existent)navy
US missiles vs China missiles..
must be twenty year gaps in all cases?
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RE: Did Chinese security firm snag too many American security secrets before the barn door closed?
tkejlboom 18th Nov
@Wmou

The threat isn't of a direct invasion of Hawaii. The threat is that they wreak havoc in India and Pakistan via Kashmir. They can create economic instability by tinkering with the capital investment in countries like Greece. Remember when they fired missiles at Taiwan, just to prove that they could? In the past, they've backed North Korea. They could easily do harm to South Korea.

U.S. interests are global interests. This is a good thing. We should be concerned for a fellow human beings. It makes for a better world. We should also look askance and those that think that they themselves and anyone else who has been born in a particular region is superior to those humans born somewhere else. We should look askance at such people whether they be in China or Texas.
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RE: Did Chinese security firm snag too many American security secrets before the barn door closed?
Wmou 15th Nov
@scarface claw
and these yellow peril army will walk across the Pacific Ocean to attack the US?
Modern warfare is all about hardware and Info-technology, all areas where the extremely militant USA is the single far away leader ahead of any other country including Russia and China.
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RE: Did Chinese security firm snag too many American security secrets before the barn door closed?
marlorcomp 15th Nov
It is about time this country wakes up. Most of the American work has gone to China and where has this left the American worker? China is a communist country so why did our leaders let China take our jobs away. China cannot be trusted with a ten foot pole let alone turn your back with them. To all those Americans with no jobs - Wake up and start voting for leaders that will support you the citizen and buy only what you have to from China.
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RE: Did Chinese security firm snag too many American security secrets before the barn door closed?
redbear2 15th Nov
@Wmou
USA population?
China population?
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USB Dongles mean the horse is already gone.
peter_erskine@... 16th Nov
Don't a lot of Americans use "mobile data dongles"? And aren't those usually made by either Huawei or ZTE (both chinese). The software ("drivers" if you choose to believe that) comes straight off the device. Full access to inbound and outbound traffic (and potentially, disk access).
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It is good to see ZDNet reporting reality..
JCitizen Updated - 16th Nov
I've been lambasting China on here since 2006! I know plenty of businesses including mine that have been impacted from fighting network intrusions, and out and out remote control of workstation assets. I suspect the Great Firewall of China has been extended well beyond their borders!
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usb wireless devices from two different companies(India)
gv_jay@... 20th Nov
I use a couple of usb wireless devices from two different companies(India). I noticed both these devices are manufactured by Huawei...
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RE: Did Chinese security firm snag too many American security secrets before the barn door closed?
em-maven 22nd Nov
If you search for Huawei, this breaking news story is the fourth entry:
Huawei, ZTE Face Scrutiny From U.S. House Intelligence Panel
_http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-11-22/huawei-zte-face-scrutiny-from-u-s-house-intelligence-panel.html
Thanks to David for doing his part to wake our government up to this threat.
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US Military-Industrial Complex?!?
craigkra@... 27th Nov
Well, well, well, so there are links between the Chinese military and Chinese companies. I am sure that this will come as a huge surprise to all those who have never heard of the term US Military Industrial Complex as coined by President Dwight D Eisenhower (Rep).

So we have, yet again, another in the series of Gewirtz of articles designed to portray China as a threat to the United States, typified by his article ???Is China gearing up to start World War II???, where we learn such terrifying facts as:

???China has made it a national priority to push more and more of its citizens into a middle class. But if China manages to ???middle class??? most of its citizens, China alone would then consume 10.1 billion tons of oil equivalent per year, or 78% of the world???s total output.???

Perhaps the Military-Media Complex should be added to the list and Gewirtz???s connections with the FBI (member of the FBI InfraGard Program) and the US Military (member of the US Naval Institute) borne in mind.

It should also be mentioned that he is a member of the National Defense Industrial Association, which is, according to a statement on its website (http://www.ndia.org/Pages/Default.aspx)

???... proud to provide a legal and ethical forum for the exchange of information between Industry and Government on National Security issues.???

Of course, everybody has a political position but the most important question is the content of the positions people actually have and Gewirtz???s is so obvious that this article would be almost comical if not for the poison that it tries to spread.
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Does it matter HOW MANY?
tom@... 30th Nov
One is too many! Here we have two camps choosing up sides, sides that don't necessarily correlate with their last choices here and other places too. They've so myopyv it's preposterous.
So what's the dividing line for "too many"? 10? 100? 1000? 10,000? 100,000? Balderdashing is all it's about.

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