Google's response to AT&T's charges on Google Voice

By | September 28, 2009, 7:02am PDT

Summary: Here’s Google’s response to AT&T’s charges that Voice discriminates against users in certain, expensive locations. Google’s argument: yes, the common carrier system is broken and should be fixed so that local carriers can’t rip off common carriers for outrageous connection fees. >Under the common carrier laws, AT&T and other traditional phone companies are required to connect [...]

Here’s Google’s response to AT&T’s charges that Voice discriminates against users in certain, expensive locations. Google’s argument: yes, the common carrier system is broken and should be fixed so that local carriers can’t rip off common carriers for outrageous connection fees.

>Under the common carrier laws, AT&T and other traditional phone companies are required to connect these calls. In the past they’ve argued that these rural carriers are abusing the system to “establish grossly excessive access charges under false pretenses,” and to “offer kickbacks to operators of pornographic chat lines and other calling services.”

We agree with AT&T that the current carrier compensation system is badly flawed, and that the single best answer is for the FCC to take the necessary steps to fix it.

But … Google is not a common carrier, not even a telephone network at all. It’s a Web-based software application that sits on top of the phone networks.

AT&T is trying to make this about Google’s support for an open Internet, but the comparison just doesn’t fly. The FCC’s open Internet principles apply only to the behavior of broadband carriers — not the creators of Web-based software applications. Even though the FCC does not have jurisdiction over how software applications function, AT&T apparently wants to use the regulatory process to undermine Web-based competition and innovation.

The argument may be legally correct but still leaves the question open of whether there’s any sensible way in which Google is different than a common carrier. Google says yes.

Google Voice is not intended to be a replacement for traditional phone service — in fact, you need an existing land or wireless line in order to use it. Importantly, users are still able to make outbound calls on any other phone device.

For instance, reader Darkmane says:

I have to say that the fact that you are emulating the general functionality of one common carrier service on top of another service that you are arguing should also be another common carrier, then you should probably act as a common carrier.

To be more clear, the argument that Web based application should not be treated as common carriers works when you are talking about EBay, Craigs List or Gmail. None of these reproduce the service of a common carrier. However since Google Voice, Skype and any other VoIP system are almost wholly reproducing the functionality of a common carrier (Caller ID and 911 being the only things I can think are missing), they should as much as possible adhere to the same rules.

Judge a man by his enemies. In this case, AT&T can see the threat Google represents even if Microsoft is only dimly aware that it’s not just about search or advertising or Ofice. AT&T’s no friend of consumers, either, though and this particular shot looks like something the FCC can and should brush off.

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Richard Koman

http://government.zdnet.com/?page_id=3731

Biography

Richard Koman

Richard Koman is an attorney admitted to practice in California. As a technology writer since the mid-1980s, Richard Koman has documented the role of computing in the transformation of the graphic arts, the growth of the Web and the birth of the peer-to-peer phenomenon. He worked as a book and web editor for O'Reilly Media throughout the 1990s, editing several influential websites and numerous best-sellers. As a lawyer, as well as a tech writer, he brings a unique perspective to the blog's intersection of law, government and technology.
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AT & T
roadybandfix 25th Oct 2009
i left to go on spring break one year, when i returned a room mate at a friends house, the room mate ran up a $400.00 phone bill when i was gone,. So like how do i pay a bill like that on well fair,and not buy food? or i pay
for rent, and get food stamps for food. i cant get a job
because i cant pay a phone bill. i'm looking for the lattude and longitude of at&t's satalite in the sky, i have a very large lazor but Florida Power&light made me take it apart, some how i was genarating from a big deepcycle battery at 12 volts DC and 1000 cranking amps,i
made a step up transfomer using just a PNP tranistor with 4 TO3055 power tranisiors then a latter using zenner dieods with some very large caps, and a color flyback transfomer by the way my output voltage was around 750,0000 Volts DC. that was my power supply for something like a stun gun at 400 feet and no matter what i used like a rubber acid glove i still would zap myself at the on and off switch, even with fireman boots i would still zap or shock myself, i guess the city of boca raton Fl. wasn't happy with the calls to 911, me laying out in my yard after zapping myself, and not like i was trying to wake up in the EMS Unit on the
way to the ER, and i would also use Ar-gone gas to cool all my heat sinks, but on Mythbusters they said that our govt. hasn't got over 100mav lazor beams, that a lie, if i can get mine over 1000mav, then maybe i need a remote on and off switch for it, before i sell mine to our govt.then maybe i could pay my phone bill in south florida.....roadybandfix@yahoo.com later people.
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How about fixing the first article
Michael Kelly 28th Sep 2009
so we know what you are talking about.
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OK, fixed
rkoman@... 28th Sep 2009
(nt)
Typical aggressive rhetoric from a corporate giant. "Be on the offensive before end up on the defensive". The entire business model of cell service is unethical and broken and these dinosaurs are only putting off the inevitable.
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Google is a multi-billion dollar company. Quit treating them like some
little underdog working out of the family basement.

Google has already shown what kind of company they are on multiple
occasions, the latest being the wireless auction bait and switch they
performed.
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Yes,
twdarkflame 28th Sep 2009
Yes, it was truly awfull how they tried to ensure
wireless platforms had to be open.
Really, really evil of them.
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Google has done no harm
T1Oracle 28th Sep 2009
Data collection is not evil, misuse of data is evil. Earning a profit is not evil, blocking legitimate competition is. Every claim of Google as evil is easily debatable.
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Torn...
jasonp@... 28th Sep 2009
I can certainly appreciate the arguments being trotted out by Google. They seem, however, to want to have the best of both worlds...acting as a de-facto "common carrier" while not actually being one. Given this, I can also appreciate actual "common carriers" desire for a level playing field...even when they have been guilty in the past of not fostering a level playing field themselves. Google is playing a tightrope balancing act and may find themselves unable to continue pushing the envelope without falling into regulated status. Like 'em or hate 'em, it's clear they are nothing if not ambitious. With ambition comes responsibility, and that's something many companies learn the hard way.
AT&T is talking nonsense, it is charging consumers too much and providing bad service.
if they continue to do like this, they will not last in the market for long, and it will be divided into 4 parts this time.
wake up AT&T, last chance for you.
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No matter how they are providing...
bjbrock 28th Sep 2009
the service it is still telecommunications. They are in direct competition with AT&T's telephone services.

Like I've said in other posts, the only way to approach this whole issue is to start at the bottom. You have companies that provide the service of an infrastructure. Then you have companies that provide services that use the infrastructure. The idea of a telephone network no longer is a viable way to look at it. You have a network service and you have telephone services that use this network. This is the same network that data and content services use.

To take it a step further, companies that provide the network or infrastructure service need to divest from the part of the company that provides the services that use the network. Until this is done we are wasting our time trying to enforce network neutrality.
Go Google! It's about time we finally have a customer advocate! ATT is infrastructure, Google is not!
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consumer advocate?
rkoman@... 30th Sep 2009
While I think Google is probably right on this question, I would strongly caution you not to perceive the company as a "consumer advocate." Creating profitable (and sometimes audacious) new businesses is the point, not protecting consumers.
I think Google is lying here by saying "Google Voice is not intended to be a replacement for traditional phone service ? in fact, you need an existing land or wireless line in order to use it. Importantly, users are still able to make outbound calls on any other phone device. "

When its VOIP, all you will need is data, and that's what they are trying to do. Eventually it will be just voip and no land line/wireless lines will be needed.

Google should adhere to the same carrier rules.
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VoIP != Google Voice
NetArch. 28th Sep 2009
While Google Voice uses VoIP, it is tied to existing phone service. It's not Skype.

Can you cite any references that say Google Voice can be used for just computer-to-computer voice calls without a valid E.164 telephone number?
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Sure...
jasonp@... 28th Sep 2009
One of the features listed is integration with Gizmo SIP services. While you *can* attach a standard E.164 telephone number with a Gizmo account, that certainly isn't a requirement.
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VoIP? Where???
mtupper 28th Sep 2009
I beg to differ... I don't see anywhere in the application where Google Voice uses VoIP, at least on an apllication level. It simply redials a local access number to access the platform and reroute calls.
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From YourDictionary.com:

In telecommunications, a company that is licensed to provide message transport services to the general public and generally is regulated to a considerable extent, at least with respect to fundamental aspects of service such as availability and basic rates. Such a license grants the holder certain rights, such as the right to control and assign globally unique telephone numbers (i.e., E.164 numbers), the right to collect certain fees from other carriers when handling calls jointly, and status under certain laws and regulations requiring interconnection. Common carrier status also imposes certain responsibilities, including collecting taxes from users, publishing tariffs, providing interconnection arrangements to other carriers, and paying certain fees to other carriers. In the United States, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and the state public utilities commissions (PUCs) regulate incumbent local exchange carriers (ILECs), i.e., telephone companies or telcos, and interexchange carriers (IXCs) to various extents.

How would the FCC define Google Voice? It's certainly not a local exchange carrier - they don't own outside plant (lines) and infrastructure dedicated to individual customers. They're not an inter-exchange carrier - they don't transport calls between LECs. They're certainly not a long-distance carrier. What AT&T is asking for is for the FCC to change the rules because Google is not playing AT&T's game.

I'm not saying that Google is totally right, but under existing rules and regulations, they're within the Law.

Remember that AT&T and Verizon are both composed of regulated and non-regulated businesses. They'd better be careful what they ask for - this is one area ripe for unintended consequences.
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Any technology or service that delivers real savings to businesses or consumers should be "good to go." But, even in the most simplistic industries, laws are often needed to prevent "deceptive and unfair trade practices."

Dale DeWalt
411maximizer.com
206-793-0000
It is totally inconceiveable why Google voice is different from any other common carrier.

It is the service-provided that is regulated by the FCC regulations not how it is provided.

Vonage and other IP phone providers could also use the Google argument. That will not be a good thing.

btw, if google wants to be your phone then it has to be a phone in all aspects.

The comparision for net neturality is just bs.


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1. Paid service connects you via data stream to the
infinite network.
2. Do whatever you want on the infinite network.
...
3. Mostmodernist.com
I would say FCC should create another category based on the new technology. I don't think "Common Carrier" should be applied since it only emulate the function but not exactly the same. What Google Voice is, it's a software that uses an existing internet connection.

If Google Voice will be categorized as a "Common Carrier", then anything that connecting two people, which has a basic function that emulate a "phone call" should be included as a Common Carrier. That includes, ym, wm, with their internet phone and other software that emulate similar function.

Including Google Voice as a Common Carrier, will limit or put on hold on any new software technology progress. If AT&T did not like the fact that Google Voice invented another way of making a call, which in this case could, and would threatened its business, I would suggest AT&T should improve its service in many ways.

Fact:
1. Google Voice is a software that uses internet connection to make a call.
2. Google Voice is FREE.
3. Google Voice will save some money.
4. Google Voice can manage your own call, which we couldn't do with regular line to avoid unwanted caller.
5. AT&T will be effected as a "Common Carrier" since they offer these services NOT FREE (home phone carrier, SMS (for iPhone users), etc.

As you can see that AT&T is about to lose some of its services to FREE Google Voice.
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The biggest and vastest of differences is that AT&T as a
common carrier takes money as part of its contract with its
customers and so has an obligation to complete calls.
Whether the customer understands the consequences of
certain numbers they dial is another matter entirely. The
fact is common carriers take money to complete calls and
so have an obligation to complete the call. Obviously a free
service provider has a few options that a paid service
provider does not.

Unless I've missed something, GoogleVoice doesn't emulate
this particular function of the common carriers and that is
a very big difference. No money, no contractual obligation
to complete calls.

As for Network Neutrality, you paid your fee for your
connection, you got your connection. Did they advertise
that filesharing and other types of programs would be
hobbled or outright blocked on their networks before they
took the money, no. Every advertisement is about speeds
they barely provide. Carriers can't advertise to drive
adoption and then change the rules once the install is
done. It may happen, but this is typically known as "bait &
switch". Especially given that most of the people who
might be enticed to buy higher speeds are more likely to
be the ones using the very protocols and services the
internet providers want to tax and they know this.

Lets be honest, if I am paying for 20/5 am I only expecting
it to be accessible a few times a day or even a few times a
week? My point is if there was the 'Encyclopedia of
Everything' that I want to download and it would take me
years to do it, I should be able to start a download that will
take 2.5 years to complete and my speeds of 20/5 should
be constant; no caps. That's right, not only do they want
throttling and blocking, they also want caps on who much
you can download. Some anyway, but I've not seen caps,
throttling and blocking as major points in ad campaigns.
Why, because they want to sell you on high speeds and tie
you in with huge termination fees, for when you find out
what they're really selling.
All FCC needs to do is ask Google is what they are providing. ALL telephone service, analog or digital, VOIP or circuit switched, should be governed under one regulation. PERIOD.

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Google is like a company running a bus service on a
moterway.
AT&T is like the moterway itself.

Thats the quite big difference.
If Google does something that sucks, you can catch a
different bus/taxi whatever.
If the Moterway itself sucks, you got no options.

The -inferstructure- has to be neutral.But those
running services on it, shouldn't have to be.

how about using skype and not the others ? skype seems reliable and very cheap . the phone companies seem to chargemany fees to there service , and google needs a land line
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AT&T is just boohooing. According to AT&T's logic Microsoft should pay for everyone to access paid sites such as porn, under common carrier class rules. Cause Microsoft's Internet Explorer is blocking me from that content, cause the local provider (the site) is charging an additional amount to complete the delivery of the site. I know my example is a bit streched but so is AT&T's complaint. Google voice is nothing more than a protocol. It handles transmission of information over the internet. According to AT&T Google can't block connection to areas, but it can block that same connection if its a file share. Also the Free Software vs a service is different. Now if I paid Google Voice for a phone service then that changes the story. It would like Microsoft saying you bought Outlook but cause you live in Virginia it doesn't work, too bad. This is not the case though.
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AT & T
roadybandfix 25th Oct 2009
i left to go on spring break one year, when i returned a room mate at a friends house, the room mate ran up a $400.00 phone bill when i was gone,. So like how do i pay a bill like that on well fair,and not buy food? or i pay
for rent, and get food stamps for food. i cant get a job
because i cant pay a phone bill. i'm looking for the lattude and longitude of at&t's satalite in the sky, i have a very large lazor but Florida Power&light made me take it apart, some how i was genarating from a big deepcycle battery at 12 volts DC and 1000 cranking amps,i
made a step up transfomer using just a PNP tranistor with 4 TO3055 power tranisiors then a latter using zenner dieods with some very large caps, and a color flyback transfomer by the way my output voltage was around 750,0000 Volts DC. that was my power supply for something like a stun gun at 400 feet and no matter what i used like a rubber acid glove i still would zap myself at the on and off switch, even with fireman boots i would still zap or shock myself, i guess the city of boca raton Fl. wasn't happy with the calls to 911, me laying out in my yard after zapping myself, and not like i was trying to wake up in the EMS Unit on the
way to the ER, and i would also use Ar-gone gas to cool all my heat sinks, but on Mythbusters they said that our govt. hasn't got over 100mav lazor beams, that a lie, if i can get mine over 1000mav, then maybe i need a remote on and off switch for it, before i sell mine to our govt.then maybe i could pay my phone bill in south florida.....roadybandfix@yahoo.com later people.
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It seems not very many people even have a clue what Google voice does. It does NOT provide Voice services or phone calls, so how is it like a common carrier? According to that logic, my answering machine is a common carrier because it interacts with one.
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If your answering machine...
jasonp@... 29th Sep 2009
were placing calls for you, integrating with your SIP service or charging you to make international calls then your answering machine may well be a common carrier.
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Again, as pointed out, people need to actually understand what Google Voice is/does before making claims that it should be regulated as a common carrier.

Google voice does nothing but consolidate your existing phone services into a single phone number. Much like having a single email address that you take with you wherever you move into the world, Google voice gives that same ability for your phone number. I still need to have a common carrier phone line to talk with others through Google voice. I still need a common carrier phone line to make phone calls to others as well.

The only thing that I can do without a common carrier phone line is send and receive SMS text messages to outside lines. THAT is what AT&T is really pissed off about. SMS Text messaging is the biggest rip-off in the wireless market today. All of the wireless carriers are making a fortune on SMS, when it costs the next to nothing to provide. That free lunch at the rip-off buffet can easily be circumvented via Google Voice. But guess what? SMS can be circumvented through ANY internet application... So really, what is the big deal?
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Sorry, I hit Reply to Story instead of Reply to Message. This was in Response to Google Voice using VoIP:

I beg to differ... I don't see anywhere in the application where Google Voice uses VoIP, at least on an apllication level. It simply redials a local access number to access the platform and reroute calls.

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