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David Gewirtz
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Microsoft will offer browser choice to European users

By | July 25, 2009, 5:45pm PDT

Summary: In what is definitely a first, Microsoft’s Windows 7 will offer European customers a ballot screen that offers to download alternative browsers and lets users turn off Internet Explorer, the New York Times reports. The E.U. was as enthusiastic as the bureaucracy is capable of being, gushing in a statement: The proposal recognises the principle that consumers [...]

In what is definitely a first, Microsoft’s Windows 7 will offer European customers a ballot screen that offers to download alternative browsers and lets users turn off Internet Explorer, the New York Times reports.

The E.U. was as enthusiastic as the bureaucracy is capable of being, gushing in a statement:

The proposal recognises the principle that consumers should be given a free and effective choice of web browser, and sets out a means – the ballot screen - by which Microsoft believes that can be achieved. In addition OEMs would be able to install competing web browsers, set those as default and disable Internet Explorer should they so wish. The Commission welcomes this proposal, and will now investigate its practical effectiveness in terms of ensuring genuine consumer choice.

Mozilla CEO John Lilly conceded that it is a “good development” but is reserving judgment to see the details, including which browsers, what terms, and whether other browsers would be updated via Windows Update.

While this only impacts Europe - and only if the EU approves - Microsoft also makes some vague claims that competitors will be able to take advantage of information to be released that will let products work smoothly with Windows 7.

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Microsoft Corp., Web Browser, Web Browsers, Microsoft Windows 7, Internet, Richard Koman

Disclosure

Richard Koman

http://government.zdnet.com/?page_id=3731

Biography

Richard Koman

Richard Koman is an attorney admitted to practice in California. As a technology writer since the mid-1980s, Richard Koman has documented the role of computing in the transformation of the graphic arts, the growth of the Web and the birth of the peer-to-peer phenomenon. He worked as a book and web editor for O'Reilly Media throughout the 1990s, editing several influential websites and numerous best-sellers. As a lawyer, as well as a tech writer, he brings a unique perspective to the blog's intersection of law, government and technology.

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How many broser options are packaged with Apple OS
dougielas 16th Dec 2009
Just wondering
View in thread
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Reserves judgement?
markbn 25th Jul 2009
You mean, they will not stop whining until Firefox is the first option in the ballot?
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Don't be silly.
Hallowed are the Ori 25th Jul 2009
They won't be happy until Opera is the first option or Microsoft has no more money to be extorted. Which ever comes first.

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EU can't compete with America
empirestatebuddy 26th Jul 2009
It's official. The EU can't compete with America. Socialism is no match for capitalism. The only way the Europeans can compete is through government bullying of successful American companies. Not that this is a surprise. Europe has always been a continent of whiners.
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More redneck posting
martin23 27th Jul 2009
Not sure how you work out a court decision by the EU is something to do with competing with America. Next you'll be suggesting the DoJ is some sort of communist plot. This was a decision to prevent a global company (MS) from using monopoly practices to control the market. So this decision means people can choose. Maybe soon the list of major corporate and government sites which will only run on IE will reduce.

Stop moaning.
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Please explain...
Hallowed are the Ori 27th Jul 2009
This was a decision to prevent a global company (MS) from using monopoly practices to control the market. So this decision means people can choose.

Please explain to us how Microsoft prevented anyone from downloading and using whatever browser they wanted.

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Yeah, I whine about the deficit!...
JCitizen Updated - 27th Jul 2009
Where nobody supposedly wants American products, even though they are vastly cheaper to foreign markets!

Somehow it think it is more that other countries just flat don't fall for the "free trade" approach, and it is just the same old tariff system that has been in force for hundreds of years.

More US citizens would have jobs if less of this when on. The only exception to this on our side, would be artificial agricultural supports that we practice.

Fair enough, but my dad is a farmer, and he and a lot of his peers would rather dump that, and prefer that the government helped on the marketing side, like they do for my cousin's in Germany.
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c.q. you call us europeans communists
amj2010 27th Jul 2009
I tell you this you redneck son of a... that due the fact that the USA don't care about their people,the so-called let live and let die politics, this president of yours Obamarama, tries to install just that, we Europeans are miles ahead of you, look at Sweden, an example how the USA should be, but not is, in a million years not...
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"...miles ahead..." that's funny very, very funny. In
TheBottomLineIsAllThatMatters Updated - 27th Jul 2009
reality most of the socialist ideas are failing and coming around the other way. But your funny - thank you needed a good laugh today. "...miles ahead..." explains why the ones that are here don't want to go home- LOL Actually when you catch up to us...we will let you know but until - sheesh you guys are so far behind...
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Don't get excited...
JCitizen 27th Jul 2009
Europe has it right that they help businesses market their products, where in the US market it is a total bear to try to set up an export side - the government keeps putting up restrictions on us that are just flat stupid, and we are drowning in regulations.

As far as I'm concerned it is closer to dictatorship on our US side, but we are just too stupid to vote the fools out!
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it will be funny if...
empirestatebuddy 26th Jul 2009
It will be funny if the effect of this is that it dilutes Firefox's market share in Europe (because of the increased competition from the "ballot of browsers") and that IE is barely affected (because most people just pick it anyway, because they're familiar with it). That would be such a slap in the face to the EU and this ridiculous policy.
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Be lick slapping a rock they are so dense...they
TheBottomLineIsAllThatMatters 27th Jul 2009
don't get it now, they never have and I would bet they never will.
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Is that just envy because you do not get the same choice
hkommedal 27th Jul 2009
as the europeans ?
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who's sounding all sour?
veganjohn@... 27th Jul 2009
Markbn - what has your knickers in a knot? If you want to use the bloated, invasive IE - go right ahead. I never use that tangled mass of code unless I absolutely must, which thankfully is not that often at all.

Just because most of the computers in the world run some flavor of Windows, we must all use Microsoft's browser as well? After they killed Netscape, IE languished and became a pile of old code that was rarely updated and improved. I am very thankful the folk at Mozilla and other browser companies can continue to develop great products and are able to provide them for free to people who need them, and have not been drinking all the Microsoft cool-aid.
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I'd agree, but right now...
JCitizen Updated - 27th Jul 2009
for Vista x64 users IE 8 is more secure than FireFox(for example), because of the all the Adobe and java vulnerabilities.

Right now my x64 IE brower runs just as fast as FF with all the adds blocked! And not as many freezes and crashes.

Even with NoScript turned off they run, neck and neck. So who cares about the bloat, I don't want my clients hacked while surfing; they need java and adobe, and no one will talk them out of it.
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Sour? For pointing out the truth?
markbn Updated - 20th Aug 2009
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=3759

"Anderson also highlighted the ordering of the alternative browsers on the ballot"

Yeah, I am sounding sour for being 100% right, HAHAHA, that's so funny.
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How many broser options are packaged with Apple OS
dougielas 16th Dec 2009
Just wondering
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RE: Microsoft will offer browser choice to European users
wyveryx Updated - 25th Jul 2009
Ok, so there are a lot of people out there with some sort of skewed axe to grind against MS, chances are they don't even know why. The EU has gone after MS countless times stating that they squelch competitors abilities because they refuse to open their source code. Many times has MS payed millions. Now the new thing is that MS's browser IE 8 being built in with the OS is another form of a Monopoly as well as "Forcing" users to use IE8. So the EU strongarms MS to include this ballot to choose which browser they want to use. I have never heard a bigger bunch of ******** in my life.

This all starts because the EU says the MS is squelching competitors, but yet the EU doesn't think anything is wrong forcing a company to "Offer" a competitors software.

Utter ********, the EU is nothing more than a partisan group favoring those who's software actually can not compete on the scale of MS's.

People just need to stand up and tell these idiots that they can indeed think for themselves.
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Browser choice
prof123 Updated - 26th Jul 2009
The EU is not forcing MS to "offer" other browsers.
This is about software distribution and access. If IE is
bundled with Windows and pre-installed, that gives IE
an unfair advantage, because the other browsers have
to be downloaded and installed. Browsers, Media
Players etc. are middleware and should not be bundled
with Windows otherwise, you will have a monopoly not
only on the OS but also the middleware.

What EU wants is like a supermarket shelf with
different cereal boxes, Kellogs and Crispy Crunch are
on the same shelf for the customer to choose. What is
wrong with that?

The way it is now, it's like MS owns the supermarket
and only their products are on the shelf. Competing
products are way back in the warehouse.
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browser choice
wyveryx 26th Jul 2009
"What's wrong with that?"

Simply really, you have a government agency "forcing", and by forcing I mean that either MS does this willingly or they will be sued yet again...

Having IE8 does not give MS an unfair adavantage, unlesss you believe that people are idiots and can not download another browser of their choice. Browsers do not cost anything and there is a plethura to choose from.

To have a government agency decide what is best for you is the worst thing possible.
It may start with a bloody browser, but what's next?

People just need to be smart about what they want. Like you said, it's a supermarket. They go in knowing what they want, and because of that they will get want they want or go to another store. Especially since the internet is extremely easy to travel to other stores there is no need to comprimise.
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You don't get it
prof123 26th Jul 2009
Your average user is not computer savvy like people on
this forum. They will use whatever is pre-installed and
for them it is a big deal to download and install
another browser. The EU solution makes sense
because this is equal access, just like having three
boxes of cereal on a supermarket shelf and you decide
which one you want to buy. Again, what's wrong with
that? If IE is the best browser (70% market share) then
people will choose it, right?
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EU for Hitler?
funkychiller 27th Jul 2009
Today, it is the browser, tomorrow, might be the
media player, then EU will ask MS to reduce it's
OS to a bunch of device drivers!

If people really want an option, we can always go
over the internet and download. If we don't like
MS, we go buy Linux or Mac.

MS is not forcing us to buy their OS, are they?
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The Problem...
windozefreak 27th Jul 2009
Microsoft pays to put its boxes of cereal on the self. If the other cereal companies want their ceral on the shelf, let them pay too. No?
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Just look around
rkoman@... 27th Jul 2009
Why do most people use IE? Because they researched and checked out the alternatives and chose IE? Or because it is already sitting in their Start menu and they dont' have to think about it - and they're not comfortable with installing software - and the differences between browsers isn't obvious, etc?

Obviously it's the latter. And as we can see, having a browser is a lever to delivering web services that rely on a company's for-sale middleware offerings.

So, it's not "forcing." It's leveling the playing field so companies can compete on the merits, not built in advantages - which were obtained, it must be remembered through a series of anticompetitive activities that made Windows the de facto OS in the first place.
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This is Just Smoke Blowing...
windozefreak 27th Jul 2009
And tired same old song. This train left the station years ago.
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No body was crying when the justice dept..
JCitizen Updated - 27th Jul 2009
broke up the Ma Bells. In fact, now the AT&T is reconsolidating, they have become the same old unresponsive,lumbering, clod-hopper, giant that they were in the sixties!

I wouldn't doubt that if this had happened to MS, it might have been good for them too! Although, come to think of it, with as much stock as Apple and MS own in each other, you could say they are already broken up - as long as Steve Jobs is alive - anyway!
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RE: Microsoft will offer browser choice to European users
btlh2oguy 25th Jul 2009
Why not offer browser choice to everyone?
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RE: Microsoft will offer browser choice to European users
jinx101 25th Jul 2009
i want my browser added to the list that people have to see.. how do i get it on there?!?!?! is this only for people like firefox and google with lawyers.. that's not fair everyone should have to see all the browsers!
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Sorry. Only europeans get this choice.
hkommedal 27th Jul 2009
Everyone else will have IE preselected whether you like it or not.
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RE: Microsoft will offer browser choice to European users
jinx101 25th Jul 2009
Where does it end? People have a choice of browser, they don't _have_ to use IE, they go download and use whatever browser they want.. Microsoft doesn't stop them (unlike, say, Apple who forces you to use Safari on their mobile devices). It's the browser now, is the notepad program next?
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Eventually only the Kernel will remain.
pcguy777 Updated - 25th Jul 2009
the calculator
the media player
the notepad
the start menu
the encryption functions


Microsoft should even have to bundle "open office" with the next office line... (joke)

WoW!

By the time the EU gets done with MS... You'll be able to choose thousands of competitors for every single software function in the entire distro.

In fact maybe the only thing that will remain is the Kernel. If you select the competition. Thats it. And a command prompt !

Do you get it now? Is this a movement gaining momentum?

LOL.

Just "how much" would it actually take for the US Congress to tell the EU to go stuff it.
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Not to be obnoxious, but...
Resplendent 25th Jul 2009
What is with ZDNet's bloggers constantly creating duplicate "me too!" entries that add nothing new to already published ones? MJF has this exact news in her blog, and while I think it's fine if you want to add some professional analysis to a story, simply reposting the bare bones of it and presuming you've done your job is simply laziness.

This criticism isn't just targeted at you; I've seen almost every ZDNet contributor doing the same. If you don't have anything else worthwhile to add, just let the first person to report something have their 15 minutes instead of feeling obligated or whatever to repaste things.
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RE: Microsoft will offer browser choice to European users
rossgl 25th Jul 2009
If I were Microsoft, I would tell the EU to stick it. If Mozilla and other browser makers want their browser on my PC, they should first make there own operating system. This is like forcing Mercedes to offer other radios besides a Blaupunkt.
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Browsers...
prof123 26th Jul 2009
Your analogy is wrong.

If Mercedes had 90% of the car market and included
their own car stereo, you can bet your ass that Sony
and other car radio manufacturers would be up in
arms. And for a good reason.. Mercedes makes great
cars but lousy radios.

Mercedes would have to offer a choice of radios.
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Slight Correction
funkychiller 27th Jul 2009
Mercedes would just make Blaupunkt the default
radio installed. We could swap it for the ones we
like. But asking Mercedes for a Sony player is
ridiculous.
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I like Blaupunkt better, but to each is own!
JCitizen 27th Jul 2009
I just can't stand the way Sony treats the customer. I look for any excuse NOT to do business with them, and have been severly burned by their products in the past.

When I buy anything but Sony I am always satisfied(so far). I must admit, though, the HDTV market has Sony with the upper hand for now, in my opinion.
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I own Blaupunkt too!
funkychiller 7th Sep 2009
Actually, I have Blaupunkt systmem and speakers in my car! And a Sony HDTV in my room! So, I have to agree with you there.

I just used the names as an example, not to market their brands! happy
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I switched to Sony later...
JCitizen Updated - 13th Sep 2009
mostly because they stole the German design concepts but were cheaper. However, I went thru two battery changes before I found out the Amp in the trunk was coming on for absolutely no reason! I got a case of the proverbial *butt* against Sony, and then the rootkit case really made them unpopular with me.

I will concede, they still lead the market in value and design; I just look harder to find a competitor now.
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Re; If I were Microsoft, I would tell the EU to stick it.
hkommedal 27th Jul 2009
Unfortunately for Microsoft, the EU is a more lucrative market than the US one.
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Oh for the love of...
Hallowed are the Ori 25th Jul 2009
The Commission welcomes this proposal, and will now investigate its practical effectiveness in terms of ensuring genuine consumer choice.

The consumer has always had a choice. They can download and use Firefox or Chrome, to name just a couple. Or, if they've completely lost their minds, they can download and use Safari.
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Re; The consumer has always had a choice.
hkommedal 27th Jul 2009
Correction: Some of them does know that.
A lot of them do NOT even know there is a choice.
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RE: Microsoft will offer browser choice to European users
radrich 25th Jul 2009
What I can't understand is why anyone would have an agenda that restricts their own choice (yes, I mean you).
Microsoft, rationally, seeks to take advantage of its monopoly by various means.
This should be pushed back against by all competition authorities - the US is lagging in this. The result would be greater competition and greater choice.

I don't believe you'd assert that Microsoft produces particular good products - right?
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We HAVE choice already...
empirestatebuddy 26th Jul 2009
What are you talking about? We already have choices. Anyone using Windows can download and use any broswer they want. What we don't need is more government hand-holding, or more government intervention.

I mean, seriously, are you too stupid to figure out that there are other browsers out there and how to get them, or do you just assume that everyone else is dumber than you?

Ugh! I'm just so sick of socialists and government bureaucrats trying to get involved in our lives. If you're afraid of monopolies, then you should be REALLY afraid of the governments in Europe--those monopolies have committed genocide in the past. Microsoft just bundled a web browser. GEESH!!!
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The choice is not fair
prof123 26th Jul 2009
It is not the same thing having something pre-installed
and working as default versus having to download and
install it yourself.

Most people are not computer savvy and will use
whatever the defaults are.. you know, all those people
that do not read ZDNet Forums...
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Like I installed openSuse and it had FireFox as
TheBottomLineIsAllThatMatters 27th Jul 2009
the default browser...so by your definition that isn't fair? I don't understand.
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Re; Suse and it had FireFox as the default browser.
hkommedal 27th Jul 2009
OpenSuSE have TWO browsers as a default.
Konqueror and Firefox. They also supply a few others too for good measure. ( It is on the DVD).
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Remember if the Gov't doesn't hold their hand for them
TheBottomLineIsAllThatMatters 27th Jul 2009
they don't have a "fair" choice. Remember the Govt takes care of you tells you what you can get what you can buy, sets the price, keeps the competition at bay...so they should help the smaller crappier software so that it's fair. Just because I write crap I should have a fair shake and force everyone to use my browser. And I'm going to vote for the guy that allows me to sit on my keester and do nothing, why should I break my neck...you get the point.
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Re; they don't have a "fair" choice.
hkommedal 27th Jul 2009
That is correct for a lot of people.

The reason for this is that they (paying customers) do not even KNOW that they have a choice.
The number one criteria for having a choice is to KNOW that you DO have a choice.

It looks like to me ( I could be WRONG), that you do not want them to know of this choice.
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Re; Anyone using Windows can download and use any broswer. .
hkommedal 27th Jul 2009
A lot of PC users do not know of this choice at all.
Appearently you do not want them to know there is a choice.
Why is that such a horrible thing?
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RE: Microsoft will offer browser choice to European users
rileyes 26th Jul 2009
Microsoft sold out. Having a government organization tell you that you have to be responsible for promoting competing products. It's crazy. Microsoft should have stuck with its original proposal and offered to sell Windows without a browser.
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What exactly does "turn off" mean?
j_joensuu@... 26th Jul 2009
Would be nice to know if this actually amounts to anything substantial.

For example the ability to "turn off" IE, is that any different from the current ability to "uninstall" it (in Win XP) through the Add/Remove Windows Components applet? (in reality this "uninstall" option just removes IE from quick launch and such, it does not remove it from the hard drive).

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