ie8 fix

Outrage in aftermath of China's YouTube censorship

By | March 25, 2009, 4:17pm PDT

As of Monday, YouTube is unavailable in China, an unexplained move apparently made in response to the existence of a video of Chinese soldiers beating Tibetan monks, says the BBC.

Leslie Harris, president of the Center for Democracy and Technology, responded that:

China’s actions fail to live up to international norms. China’s apparent blocking of YouTube is at odds with the rule of law and the right to freedom of expression. Anytime a country limits or takes down content online , it must be forthright and specific about its actions and do so only in narrowly defined circumstances consistent with international human rights and the rule of law.

Google declined to criticize China, saying only: “We don’t know the reason for the block and are working to restore access to users in China as quickly as possible,” in the words of spokesperson Scott Rubin.

The Committee to Protect Journalists criticized the move, calling on China to explain itself and remove the block immediately.

We are deeply concerned that millions of Chinese Internet users have been deprived of an important information resource without being told why,” CPJ Deputy Director Robert Mahoney said. “The blocking of YouTube is a sign of escalating restrictions on media freedom that we have witnessed this month in China. Authorities must explain why YouTube is inaccessible.”

And the Global Network Initiative made a similar statement:

Freedom of opinion and expression is a human right and guarantor of human dignity. The right to freedom of opinion and expression includes the freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

Broad public access to information and the freedom to create and communicate ideas online are critical to the advancement of knowledge, economic opportunity, and human potential.

The video of the attacks on the monks was graphic and brutal, according to the BBC’s report.

The graphic video was released by Tibetan exiles and showed hundreds of uniformed Chinese troops swarming through a Tibetan monastery. It included footage of a group of troops beating a man with batons.

In another scene a group of men, including a monk, were beaten, kicked and choked, while they lay on the ground. Some had their hands tied and appeared to be unconscious.

The date and locations of the film have not been confirmed.

Without acknowledging any action, China said it was acting legally.

We encourage the active use of the internet but also manage the internet according to law.

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Biography

Richard Koman

Richard Koman is an attorney admitted to practice in California. As a technology writer since the mid-1980s, Richard Koman has documented the role of computing in the transformation of the graphic arts, the growth of the Web and the birth of the peer-to-peer phenomenon. He worked as a book and web editor for O'Reilly Media throughout the 1990s, editing several influential websites and numerous best-sellers. As a lawyer, as well as a tech writer, he brings a unique perspective to the blog's intersection of law, government and technology.
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AnderCori 29th Mar 2009
NetNanny's back to work sad
Outrage? You have to be kidding. When did China ever give the impression that it was concerned about individual rights or international opinion? China is just acting like China.
China is not the only country that censors information. As for human rights the US is no better either. Police in the US abuse citizens everyday and the justice system does nothing. Citizens of both China and the US are afraid of their government instead of the government afraid of the people. Before we criticize China we need to fix things in the USA. We must love life (all life forms) before we can have human rights.
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They're much worse.
CobraA1 25th Mar 2009
"As for human rights the US is no better either."

The fact that we can have this conversation at all is a testament that we are far better at human rights. The Chinese people can't even talk about this.

"Police in the US abuse citizens everyday and the justice system does nothing."

Yes, we have some bad people. Yes, we have some places that are corrupt. In a nation of 300 million people, there's bound to be some criminals and bad cops. But that's usually isolated areas, not something the federal government condones or makes mandatory.

In China, however, it's pretty much that way by law. They actively suppress freedoms at the all levels of government, especially the freedom of speech, which is almost nonexistant in that country (compare that to here, where we can trash talk our government without any fear at all). Big difference.

"Citizens of both China and the US are afraid of their government instead of the government afraid of the people."

Thanks for telling me I'm afraid of my government. I guess that's something I should've known. I guess maybe I should be afraid that I'm gonna be jailed just for speaking out on this forum?

LOL!

There's very little regulation of free speech here in the USA. Just the fact that we are talking about this and nobody has been hauled off to jail for it proves we are very free and fear our government very little.

"We must love life (all life forms) before we can have human rights."

Gotta start somewhere. Might as well start with humans. In particular, we should love our unborn children, and make it a crime to kill them.

Of course China has gone the opposite direction - they've made it mandatory to kill unborn children if the parents have too many. How's that for loving all life forms?
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Human rights in US???
williamliew 26th Mar 2009
When US jails more people (percentage of population) than most of major countries in the world (including China), when White people took over the land of the Native Americans and eliminated most of the Native Americans, when US launched a war in Iraq and killed (directly or indirectly) 1 million Iraqis, how do you dare to teach Chinese people about human rights????
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You have a flawed logic system.
SippyCup 26th Mar 2009
You're saying that the past dictates our ability to determine right from wrong? Sorry, but that makes no sense. Remember, two wrongs don't make a right--previous inhumane acts do not justify future inhumane acts. Get your priorities straight before you continue your whining rants; and do try to stay on topic--this article isn't about the US, it's about China.
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Hey
zdnetpark 26th Mar 2009

Hey Buddy. I feel that What you posted do not work sometimes. The hypothesis of your post are:

1. We China might be wrong on many issues like human rights.
2. You damn the US has done wrong as well, even far more worse than China
3. What's the point can you blame China.

But if we were an American, we could say:

1. We the US might be wrong on many issues like bombing Iraqi.
2. You dictators China has done wrong as well, even far more worse than the US
3. What's the point can you blame us and, Why don't We blame you?

This is the same logical, there is no winner in the kind of argument. williamliew, are you Chinese or a overseas Chinese? I think it's better to be open-minded.

Her
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I'd like to see the statistics.
CobraA1 Updated - 26th Mar 2009
"When US jails more people (percentage of population) than most of major countries in the world (including China)"

I'd like to see that statistic. In particular, I'd like to know why neither of us (nor anybody I know, for that matter) are in jail if we are supposedly jailing so many people.

In any case, that doesn't cover why we are jailing people, which would be a far better question than what percentage of people are being jailed.

Just because somebody is in jail doesn't mean their rights are being violated. There are many legitimate reasons to jail people. We need to know why they are in jail.

"when White people took over the land of the Native Americans and eliminated most of the Native Americans"

That's the distant past. That can never be changed. That does not mean that is what is happening in the present.

"when US launched a war in Iraq and killed (directly or indirectly) 1 million Iraqis"

I've seen those statistics, and I have major problems with the source of many of those statistics.

"how do you dare to teach Chinese people about human rights????"

Yup. I dare. Get a good statistics book, and quit touting the same tired arguments I've seen from the far left.

. . . and just because we may be an imperfect nation does not excuse China. If we are both doing things wrong, we both need to fix them!
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bad statistic
ViperFUD 26th Mar 2009
This is a poor comparison. The US has a higher percentage in jail than other countries, sure.

What if we look at the annual statistics of: people jailed, people getting out of jail, and people executed?

Whine all you want about people getting thrown into jail, but I'd be willing to bet that if China (or India, or Iraq) were to jail the criminals rather than just beheading them, the numbers would be different.

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Sources don't matche the statistic.
CobraA1 26th Mar 2009
The sources the statistic refers to doesn't match the statistic they're throwing around. Looks like a source with an obvious bias and agenda as well.

Do you have anything more accurate numbers and with less vested interest in a political position?
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Great Stat....not
mongo12357 26th Mar 2009
Let's discuss Jailed people not folks on Parole, or on Probation. What an inflated number. It seems built for a slow news day...

And I'm sure sure the Chinese just gift wrapped those comparable numbers and gave them to Amnesty International to allow a fair comparison and prove your point! or maybe not....
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Free speech
AnderCori 26th Mar 2009
You think you have free speech in the US - and more than any other country?

If a website forum moderator doesn't shut you down for making an offensive comment, your ISP might for viewing 'offensive' content before some government agency hauls your butt off.

At which level of government do you want to visit and piss someone off by declaring how ---> insert gender, race, religion, age, etc --- the official is before either getting punched out and slapped with a lawsuit.

The last time I was on YouTube (4 days and counting) I saw some of the most incendiary comments to some of the most unlikely posts.

Perhaps it's not because of the video content as much as the comments section that YouTube was shut out.

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More than China for sure.
CobraA1 26th Mar 2009
"You think you have free speech in the US - and more than any other country?"

I dunno about more than any country, but I'd say a lot more than China for sure. I've been speaking my mind pretty much my whole life, and I've yet to be arrested for anything.

"If a website forum moderator doesn't shut you down for making an offensive comment, your ISP might for viewing 'offensive' content before some government agency hauls your butt off."

Websites are privately run, they can make any rules they please. Has nothing to do with the government. Same with the ISPs, I imagine, although cases where they shut people down are rare.

"At which level of government do you want to visit and piss someone off by declaring how ---> insert gender, race, religion, age, etc --- the official is before either getting punched out and slapped with a lawsuit."

We make lawsuits about everything these days it seems. Just because somebody throws a lawsuit at you doesn't mean you've actually committed a crime.

"The last time I was on YouTube (4 days and counting) I saw some of the most incendiary comments to some of the most unlikely posts."

Yes, they're expressing the free speech they supposedly don't have in the US - and likely don't have in China.
@BartRail,

You have a scewed vision of reality, Bart. The U.S. government does not condone its soldiers to go into an area it has occupied and beat up civilians, especially civilians engaged in worship. For decades, the Chinese have systematically brutalized the Tibetan people, in a horrific attempt at completely erasing their culturs. Sure, the U.S. government did that to the American Indians 200 YEARS AGO, as did other nations to various indigenous peoples worldwide. Without excusing those atrocities, it is true that in this day and age, it is simply not acceptable for a government to engage in this sort of behavior. Yes, some police officers in some U.S. cities do abuse their power from time to time. The difference is that in the U.S. they are held accountable. There is not accountability in China! The Chinese government does what it wants and then shuts down any reports to avoid being held accountable. That is the reality, and it is so differnt from the situation in the U.S. that you are completely off base in trying to make a comparison. Better you should try to compare apples to walruses.
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Human rights in US?
williamliew 26th Mar 2009
When US jails more people (percentage of population) than most of major countries in the world (including China), when White people took over the land of the Native Americans and eliminated most of the Native Americans, when US launched a war in Iraq and killed (directly or indirectly) 1 million Iraqis, how do you dare to teach Chinese people about human rights????
"When US jails more people (percentage of population) than most of major countries in the world (including China)"

I'd like to see that statistic. In particular, I'd like to know why neither of us (nor anybody I know, for that matter) are in jail if we are supposedly jailing so many people.

In any case, that doesn't cover why we are jailing people, which would be a far better question than what percentage of people are being jailed.

Just because somebody is in jail doesn't mean their rights are being violated. There are many legitimate reasons to jail people. We need to know why they are in jail.

"when White people took over the land of the Native Americans and eliminated most of the Native Americans"

That's the distant past. That can never be changed. That does not mean that is what is happening in the present.

"when US launched a war in Iraq and killed (directly or indirectly) 1 million Iraqis"

I've seen those statistics, and I have major problems with the source of many of those statistics.

"how do you dare to teach Chinese people about human rights????"

Yup. I dare. Get a good statistics book, and quit touting the same tired arguments I've seen from the far left.

. . . and just because we may be an imperfect nation does not excuse China. If we are both doing things wrong, we both need to fix them!
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Imperfect nation of hypocrits.
Albion01 Updated - 26th Mar 2009
Yet, we can torture the hell out of so called "Enemy Combatants" offering them no 6th amendment rights to prove their guilt before they're put under the water board? Maybe we should put our efforts into fixing the problems within our own borders before we go advocating against cultures we barely understand. Ya think?

"I'd like to see that statistic. In particular, I'd like to know why neither of us (nor anybody I know, for that matter) are in jail if we are supposedly jailing so many people."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Incarceration_rates_worldwide.gif

As for Tibet...

First, the Dalai Lama does not was a Free Tibet, he's calling for something akin to Hong Kong, a special administrative region.

Secondly Tibet and its futile serfdom class system held 95% of it's population under the same conditions as the slaves in the American south. People were often killed, raped, and traded like livestock by the land owning Lamas. The 14th incarnation himself owned 27 manors worked by more then 6000 surf slaves. Why would anyone want Tibet to go back to that? Personally I think the Chinese did the vast majority of Tibetans a service by freeing them in 1959.
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Sigh . . .
CobraA1 26th Mar 2009
Sigh . . .

No, we're not a perfect nation, and yes, some laws need a rework.

"Maybe we should put our efforts into fixing the problems within our own borders before we go advocating against cultures we barely understand. Ya think?"

. . . I know we have our own set of problems. That's not the point. I'm not making a comparison here.

. . . and I don't need to "understand" a culture to know that violating the right to free speech is wrong.

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Incarceration_rates_worldwide.gif"

In all honesty, all of this talk about prison population proves nothing. It doesn't say why they are incarcerated, it doesn't say why the rates are so high, and it doesn't say anything about what percentage are having their rights violated due to being in jail.

So piling on all this talk about prison rates really proves nothing about civil rights. In fact, the biggest reason for our unusually high rates is more likely to be longer prison terms and a culture that frankly is teaching us that it's okay to break the law.

"Why would anyone want Tibet to go back to that?"

I don't think anybody does. It's more likely that we want them to adopt a more democratic system.

"I think the Chinese did the vast majority of Tibetans a service by freeing them in 1959."

I wouldn't call that "freeing" them. Real freedom includes, well, real freedoms like free speech.
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Totally expected.
CobraA1 25th Mar 2009
Umm, yeah - totally expected.

"China?s actions fail to live up to international norms."

No duh. Since when did they care about international relations?

"China?s apparent blocking of YouTube is at odds with the rule of law and the right to freedom of expression."

The earth continues to revolve around the sun too. What do you expect from a socialist/communist nation? Their entire philosophy is "the state controls everything." Freedom of expression is, unfortunately, not really considered that much of a right under their laws.

That's how socialism/communism works. Having rights is a more democratic idea.

"Anytime a country limits or takes down content online , it must be forthright and specific about its actions and do so only in narrowly defined circumstances consistent with international human rights and the rule of law."

Good luck convincing China that "international law" is somehow relevant. Being that most international law is created by democratic nations, they probably avoid it at all costs.

"We are deeply concerned that millions of Chinese Internet users have been deprived of an important information resource without being told why"

What, did they discover China's firewalls yesterday or something? Boy are they out of touch!

"The blocking of YouTube is a sign of escalating restrictions on media freedom that we have witnessed this month in China."

THIS MONTH?!?!

Newsflash: The firewall has been in place for over 10 years.

Now that's what I call out of touch with reality.

"We encourage the active use of the internet but also manage the internet according to law."

Yeah - bull. China lost credibility a long time ago. I guess YouTube has been living on the kool-aid the socialists have been pushing.
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... mandatory to kill ...
javajunkie@... 25th Mar 2009
"Of course China has gone the opposite direction - they've made it mandatory to kill unborn children if the parents have too many. "

Yeah, like they want to.

I saw a documentary when I was young about Eskimos pushing off their elders to float away to death because they were too old to help anymore and the economic necessity was just that. Like the parents really wanted to.

I'm sure if you can show China how to let the number of people boom without dire consequences, that they will rethink their practices.

So let's not kill any babies and let's let the population explodes, and then let's pollute a great deal more and justify it by there being a necessity to do so in order to support all people adequately. Then let's have lots of real human suffering in an over polluted over populated world.

I hate China but I do not think we should be throwing rocks and I really, really hate killing babies to the degree that everything possible should be done to avoid it. That said, I won't say there aren't cases when someone might legitimately make that choice. If I were raped, I may not see it as my responsibility to undertake the risk to my own life that a pregnancy poses. I am sorry you see differently but thinking you make all the rules is behaving just like China which you profess to oppose. Please be a little more consistent in your thinking.
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re: ... mandatory to kill ...
CobraA1 26th Mar 2009
"I saw a documentary when I was young about Eskimos pushing off their elders to float away to death because they were too old to help anymore and the economic necessity was just that. Like the parents really wanted to."

I normally value human life over economic necessity. Only in the most extreme of extreme circumstances would I consider such an action. I am willing to endure a high level of economic hardship to save a human life.

If money was the only problem the Eskimos had, then I would disagree with such an act. If, however, there were other lives at risk due to the economic conditions, I may be willing to concede, because other lives are at risk.

The problem was very unlikely to be economic - money is just paper. It can be redistributed and created easily enough. The problem was likely that their food sources were low and people were going to die no matter what. It was just a matter of which people were going to die.

That would be an extreme condition, a statistical outlier, a very rare exception to the rule. I do not change my point of view merely because of a rare extreme example.

"So let's not kill any babies and let's let the population explodes, and then let's pollute a great deal more and justify it by there being a necessity to do so in order to support all people adequately. Then let's have lots of real human suffering in an over polluted over populated world."

There are better ways to control population. Interestingly enough, most first world nations have far lower rates of population growth. Some countries are even experiencing shrinkage and are very concerned about having an older, dying population. None of these countries had to create laws similar to the laws China has in place in order to control their populations.

There are ways to manage populations without having to resort to extreme measures.

"If I were raped, I may not see it as my responsibility to undertake the risk to my own life that a pregnancy poses."

It is not the fault of the baby that a woman gets raped. It is the fault of man who raped the woman.

If the risks are merely financial, then go after the man that created the risks and make him fully responsible for those risks. Again, if the problem is merely money, than money can be redistributed easily enough.

Carrying a baby is normally a low risk activity; very few people have their lives at risk merely by being pregnant.

In the case of a mother's life at risk, then yes I would consider an exception and allow an abortion, since a life is at risk either way.

"but thinking you make all the rules is behaving just like China which you profess to oppose."

I did not make the rules; the rights are in our founding documents, and many of the principles I believe in can be traced back thousands of years. They are not arbitrary, and I have taken care to understand them and not to follow them blindly or take them lightly.

"Please be a little more consistent in your thinking."

I am very consistent. It is the person who bends their rules and make more exceptions to them more than is necessary that is being inconsistent.
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What is the root cause?
javajunkie@... 25th Mar 2009
#1 - I am a practicing Buddhist.

#2 - I am not a Palistinian and do not condone violent protest and then whine in public about the heavy handed response.

#3 - Real Buddhism will survive Chinese oppression in tibet.

#4 - Tibetan Buddhism may have to change to survive.

I am sorry Tibetan Buddhists. I know you love your practices and firmly believe in your ways.

Existance is impermanent by nature and no-one more than you should understand the profound implications of that truth.

China will win any confontation and knowing that, please do not do stupid things. I am very sorry and wish things were different. Being unhappy does not license one to do stupid things. Yes, I know it is not your fault Tibetan Buddhists, but stupidity is not the answer to suffering.

You will lose essential culture under Chinese cultural oppression and you will gain even more by handling the oppression in a manner that let's the Chinese let you exist.

Please understand the origins of your suffering. I am afraid it is not the Chinese. Even if your rocks could vanquish all that is China, throwing stones will not make your suffering cease. Rather, you must accept that impermanence is the final law, and build a culture which not only honors that law but pays tribute to it in uniquely human ways.

I do feel for your plight. I honestly do.

Now stop throwing tanrums like a two-year-old child who can't get their way. Your tradition is older than that, it is not?
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Okay, try to minimize political discussions.
Grayson Peddie 25th Mar 2009
I can see those kinds of discussions that will go out of hand when it comes to bashing, flaming, or insulting others who came from a different perspective (point of view)... *faint-hearted* *sigh*

Other than that, it can be quite interesting to know why China thinks it's legal to block Youtube (not because "they just say so").
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Perspective
AnderCori 26th Mar 2009
Thanks for the perspective!
I had a little political rant there earlier - and it doesn't really make me feel any better. The sad fact is youtube has been been blocked -again - by an authoritarian regime determined to punish youtube and to deny some intelligent discourse in its actions. At least one 'hopes' this is the case, because in no real way can the videos (assuming they're to do with Tibet) ever be able to hidden from the Chinese forever, thanks to internet. In most cases the propaganda folks lag considerably behind the media it doesn't control.
Why they might think it's legal is surely akin to 'our' thinking something denied is legal under the pretext of national security.
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I live in China. I have lived here since 2000. Its sad that China has blocked Youtube; but relating human rights to a blocking of a web site is going to far. It is not mandatory to kill children. It is very common in the country side to have two of more children, you just have to pay for the right. It is also common if a another child comes along to raise said child in a family members home. Children are extremely important in China. The current population in China is 1,330,044,544. How would you govern that many people. Take a look in the mirror. China is not invading other countries and murdering countless others in the name of communism. Unlike other countries doing this to promote their own philosophies. I am Canadian, speak chinese and understand their culture. If you have a problem with what China does in their own country then STOP going to Wallmart and buying up all the chinese made products. Can you live without that new coffee maker or your cheap car seat covers. I bet not. It sucks I can't use Youtube anymore but lay off China. You don't know what your talking about.
I agree with Notlikeitseems, people in china don't kill their children because they are over the one child limit!! Thats just stupid and i think everyone is dumber in this message board due to that comment.

CobraA1, How can you have an argument when you are posting both ignorant and falsely critical information?

I just read in a GQ article, that it is legal in Nebraska to abandon your child (link: http://men.style.com/gq/features/landing?id=content_8557). I know, i know, its different because one is about choice and the other is about government but it shows US has their own problems with children ok? So DROP that subject.


What about the US and its treatment to other ethnicities, religions and groups of people:

- Guantanamo Bay (ok I know Obama's closing it but its still open)
- Indian Massacre
- Conquest of Hawaiians
- Iraq War, Vietnam War etc...

Democracy is a Joke, so is freedom of speech. US has done so much messed up stuff but no body hears about it because were drowning in reality tv and other pointless content. No Government is perfect, and most likely you tube will come back online in a couple months, now shuttup and get back to work.
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Freedom to ...
AnderCori 26th Mar 2009
Freedom of speech is the freedom to incriminate oneself.

I hope it won't be a couple of months before YouTube is up again! It was down (only) for a couple of days last month, curiously at the same time.

-Miss YouTube
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Not just China
AnderCori 26th Mar 2009
Since I've been in China the GFW has changed dramatically for the better. That's not to say I agree with it, but having access to more websites than before is a good thing. That said, nowadays every single webpage viewed in China is simultaneously stored on government servers to do who-knows-what with later.

China's not the only country in the world playing NetNanny, so before y'all start screaming "foul", check out what's being blocked in your own backyard. herdict.org is such a site.

-Missing YouTube...
Coverage of undesirable content is not limited to China. Since 1991, with only a few exceptions, the US media has been barred from filming or photographing the flag-draped coffins of service-members as they arrive back at Delaware's Dover Air Force Base from Iraq and Afghanistan.
If you are not outraged you are not paying attention.
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godtheson
XxMaster_Of_WordsxX 26th Mar 2009
nope im not outraged at all at that fact, one because they are allowed now to show flag draped coffins, and two that they SHOULDNT,show flag draped coffins unless the familiy gives the media permission. Would you want your child whose dead on national televison? I think not. and plus if I die while overseas I wouldnt want my casket to be shown on national televison. That would just piss off even more people in my country, who really have no right to be pissed off in the first place. Show support for your veterans and let the families decide wether the bodies should be shown on television or not.
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Sanitizing War
mdg1019 26th Mar 2009
I agree that showing the coffins my cause some of the families extra pain, but the American people not only have the right they need to be shown the consequences of any military action we take. Without showing the coffins, the deaths of our brave soldiers are just meaningless numbers on a newscast. Doesn't their sacrifice for our country deserve to be more than a statistic?

The politicians who are against showing the coffins could care less about the soldiers or their families. By censoring the news, they are just causing more soldiers to die and more loved ones to grieve.
Good Lord. I certainly don't like the Chinese government, but when people start talking about access to YouTube as a human right it dragging things down to the level of absurdity. Where is the outcry about the Tibetan monks being beaten? No, instead, people are up in arms about YouTube being shut down.

If Google wants to do something to help the Chinese people, they and other responsible companies should stop doing business with China. The Chinese pretty much own us and that's why nothing will ever be done to stop the oppression that goes on there. Bottom line is that making a buck is more important to the rest of the world than human rights.

How did we beat the Soviet Union? Militarily? No, economically. We just didn't do business with them. Why is China going to beat us? Militarily? No, economically, which they have pretty much already done.
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Outrage
rkoman@... 26th Mar 2009
Dude, if you watched/read the media at all at the time, you would know there was PLENTY of outrage over the beatings.

The fact that they OWN us, is exactly why US companies will play ball with them.
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Japan
rkoman@... 26th Mar 2009
And just remember when Japan was supposedly wiping us up and it was going to be the Japanese century. What happened? Overextension and collapse, followed by huge increase in US wealth.
Don't you think we're already seeing the signs of collapse of Chinese economic might? People are leaving the cities in droves as work dries up ...

The collapse of the US economy -- although closer now then it's been in 70 years -- is always overstated. If we build an economy based on providing value and competitiveness, the US will prosper over boom and bust economies. Look at the so-called "tigers" of Eastern Europe and Iceland.
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Your article on YouTube and China is so political that you sound like a funamentalist leader from the Middle East. Everyone on this earth is fighting for their interest. The interest of 1.3 billion Chinese is maintaining their good life and growing their economy. When some people like those Tibetans and their supporters want to destroy 1.3 billion Chinese people's life, their reaction is nothing but fighting back, by using their own way. Their way might be different than your way, but you have no right to label your way as better and other people's way as worse.

If you really are interested in so called international human rights, you should fight for the interest of the poor Native Americans, donate food and money to poor people in Africa, South/Latin America, Asia.
Wow, you really need to open a history book and read how China invaded Tibet in the 1950s and the atrocities they committed against probably the most peaceful people this planet has ever known. These atrocities continue today. The Tibetan people just want to be free.
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Your side - my side
AnderCori Updated - 26th Mar 2009
There is, in fact, another side to this story. It goes something like this: human beings were enslaved under theocratic thugs until compassionate Communists came along and saved the day.
The Tibetan people are as free, as you and me, to peacefully uphold the law of the land and to be free of self-deluded demi-god under the guise of religious enslavement.
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Annnd China wants to be the worlds currency reserve . Makes you wonder what would happen if they had to put their money where their mouth is. Could they? would they? are they dependable? I'm no financeer, but I really don't think China is ready for the world yet. oops I think this will be censored in China.
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Yet...
AnderCori 26th Mar 2009
...is a key word there. Will the world be ready for China one day?

No, your comments were not censored here.
Tibet problem is so annoying. It'll break us down somehow, as what the West want indeed. Just some kind of politics. Who care? I don't care. Beat? Holy **** Tibet people burned 5 Chinese girls to dead. If I were Chinese police I would shoot them rather than being killed or seeing they killing our people.
Say whatever you want to say. Never want the support of Chinese people. We support the truth only, what u don't get.
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RE: Outrage in aftermath of China's YouTube censorship
raymond0016 Updated - 26th Mar 2009
Why does the US always take business on other countries? What is the point here? And dont tell me the US dont torture people? Do we ever care about them even if they do? Heck no... So the US should mine their own business first. Anyways US is just bunch of shits.
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RE: Outrage in aftermath of China's YouTube censorship
thinkbeforeyouspeak 26th Mar 2009
Who cares if YouTube is blocked in China?

YouTube is a tool that people were using as a "window to the World"....that's it.

If a window is stuck and you can't open it, look around and you'll find other windows...

Anyway, any decent media have their own website with video footage included. If you solely rely on YouTube to seriously publish your view of the World, you're as better as those prepubescent kids uploading video footages of their own ass and thinking they are funny! Freedom of expression? In that case, no thank you!

And human rights? Stop talking about this...
USA has a different definition of Human Rights than Canada's one which in turn is different of the Human Rights definition of the UN. Human rights of information? Do you really think that when you're starving to death you really care about what you have the right to know/say? NO! You just don't want to die!

You're mixing up "Freedom of expression" and the right to have a decent life.

Oh and by the way, if you've never set foot in China, every argument you'll ever say will be flawed.

Now go back watching CNN thinking this is a real window to the outside World...
Do not be quick to judge other people. Remember here in the US there are laws that can strip us of our children under the excuse of 'helping'! Try to research other 'third world' countries and see if they themselves do such things; you will be suprised!

Again do not be quick to judge others, no one can deny that the internet is highly biased. It is pro-gay, pro-evolution, anti-russian, anti-chinese, anti-arab, anti-muslim, etc.. Do a search on google for these things and compare the number of search results to precentage of the population that actualy beleives in the, and you will see for yourself the extreme bias there is on these issues! It is remarkable. Remember not too long ago it was was the large co-operations and government agencies were messing with wikipedia! I think the chinese government is aware of these problems on the english-net and is acting accordingly.

For the last time, do not judge others you know nothing about and worry about your own 'home' first.
Bravo! Finally someone addresses the real issue. We sit fat and happy here in the US, ready to trounce on any foreign country or foreigner without appreciating or even investigating what it's like to be a citizen of China, Iraq, Iran, Mexico - hell, even Canada. No, the Chinese will not win any Human-Rights-Awards, but then again, Folks, we don't have half their population, history or problems. Governments don't often operate in a vacuum, be they communist, socialist, anarchist, or democratic. They give the majority of their citizens what they think they need, usually security and predictability (otherwise known as bread and blankets). Slim-pickens for us optimists, but China - like Detroit, Miami, London or Moscow can do whatever they want, until the people complain.

China has no obligation legally, ethically or morally to allow YouTube to broadcast what they find unacceptable or counterproductive to their obligation, i.e. keeping the populace content. My God, Folks, they pretty much fashioned Tibet the way we fashion Indian reservations.

In time, China, like the US and nearly everyone else, may find that their fear of transparency was foolish and detrimental, but - hey - running a country ain't like running your home. China is just beginning to figure it out, just like we are.
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There seems to be a misconception here
rkoman@... 26th Mar 2009
Several actually.

1. I am not a mouthpiece for the US government. I can say what I please and I do not have to account for any US government actions.

2. This is not about the so-called morality of China's actions in Tibet. That subject is not on topic here.

3. The topic is China's censorship of information it doesn't like and its tendency not just to block that information but to punish the companies that carry the information.

4. Bad actions of the US or Europe or anywhere else don't have anything to do with this story. You want to debate this development? Debate it on its own terms: Should a country be able to prevent its citizens from seeing videos or reading articles that show it in a bad light?

5. The fact that the same talking points come out again and again (Tibetans are the bad guys; the US committed genocide against Native Americans) suggest a dedicated online propaganda campaign. The fact that there are this many posts saying the same thing on this little blog suggest the operation is pretty friggin' large.
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Sounds like normal police procedures, I've seen it done on TV more times than I can count, just because the criminals are monks don't make them any less criminals.

Now the interest thing is I've never seen anything that told me China ever unblocked YouTube after last year, I guess China seem to have the ability to block something multiple times.
The past always dictates the present.

This is why Black and Latinos are disproportionally represented in the Justice system of both Canada and the US (for Canada it is First Nations instead of Latinos).

This is why Northern Africa is in turmoil.

This is why HIV/AIDS has yet to leave its global pandemic status.

This is why rockets are fired into Israel and troops march into Gaza.

This is why China is still developing and transforming.

Today's realities do not suddenly materialize from some metaphysical evil. They are a product of years, generations, centuries, and sometimes even milleniums of socialization.

Oops I forgot this was an Internet thread. **** China! US PWNZ ALL! YOUTUBE = AMAZING!
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Youtube is NOT the only source of video content for Chinese viewers. In fact, it isn't even the most used!

This is not violating free speech so much as it is saving Chinese people from people who post comments on Youtube for some of the most rediculous viral videos (although those two college Chinese guys are funny as heck).

Absolutely no one I know is crying that we lost Youtube. I bet this was more about giving a bigger market share to local Chinese companies, and if that's the case, that's great.

Seriously... making Youtube seem like this amazing form of free speech is kind of sad... advocacy in this generation is so depressing.
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For how long ~
AnderCori 27th Mar 2009
The Chinese NetNanny has given us back our YouTube privilege!
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Back to work
AnderCori 29th Mar 2009
NetNanny's back to work sad

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