'Scandal' over Norway's vote for OOXML

By | March 31, 2008, 9:13am PDT

Summary: We hear stories of “voting irregularities” around the world, not least of all right hear in the USA, but surely the ISO is different. No? The Register reports that delegates have been “complaining loudly about alleged heavy-handed tactics and misdeeds in the voting process” on Microsoft’s OOXML standard. The Register says that Microsoft appears to [...]

We hear stories of “voting irregularities” around the world, not least of all right hear in the USA, but surely the ISO is different. No? The Register reports that delegates have been “complaining loudly about alleged heavy-handed tactics and misdeeds in the voting process” on Microsoft’s OOXML standard.

The Register says that Microsoft appears to have locked up the election after a number of countries’ standards bodies made abrupt switches to favor the format.

Norway’s Geir Isene says the country sees a booming business in fixing “such a broken standard.

The meeting: 27 people in the room, 4 of which were administrative staff from Standard Norge.

The outcome: Of the 24 members attending, 19 disapproved, 5 approved.

The result: The administrative staff decided that Norway wants to approve OOXML as an ISO standard.Their justification: “Standard Norge puts emphasis on that if this [OOXML] becomes an ISO/IEC standard, it will be improved to better accommodate the users’ needs.”

This translates to: “Yes, we know the standard is broken, 79% of our technical committee have told us. But we hope that it someday will be repaired by someone. And we’ll be happy to help if someone can give us the resources.”

What happened in Norway is nothing less than a scandal, says Wium Lie of Opera Software, according to Computerworld.dk (translation via GrokLaw)

“This is a scandal! I am shocked. I am speechless. 21 members of the committee say no, while MS manages to win through its position anyway. It is incomprehensible,” says Wium Lie angrily.

The meeting on Friday began first with a general committee in Standards Norway, which thereafter was reduced to key individuals in the organization plus five representatives who were in attendance at the ISO meeting in Geneva. At the end, even these were dismissed, and three individuals from Standards Norway made the decision.

“Those who made the decision at the end are not those who know the most about this. They are not qualified to make this type of decision and do not necessarily have national interests at heart. They do not represent the Norwegian committee,” says Wium Lie.

The committe head, Steve Pepper, is similarly distressed:

“I am deeply shocked that Standards Norway has chosen to ignore the large majority in the committee. It is the bureaucrats in the committee who have said yes, not Norway. It is a win for MS and a great loss for the rest of the world,” says Pepper.

“So if the majority in the committee were against OOXMl, why do you think that Standards Norway said yes. They have been targeted of enormous pressure from one market interest which has use of great resources, and they have most likely been more preoccupied by their own interests as a standards organization than by the end users interests,” says Pepper.

More gory details at GrokLaw.

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Richard Koman

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Biography

Richard Koman

Richard Koman is an attorney admitted to practice in California. As a technology writer since the mid-1980s, Richard Koman has documented the role of computing in the transformation of the graphic arts, the growth of the Web and the birth of the peer-to-peer phenomenon. He worked as a book and web editor for O'Reilly Media throughout the 1990s, editing several influential websites and numerous best-sellers. As a lawyer, as well as a tech writer, he brings a unique perspective to the blog's intersection of law, government and technology.

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RE: 'Scandal' over Norway's vote for OOXML
alec.wood@... 21st Apr 2008
Whenever Microsoft wins we all win

ROFLMAO
0 Votes
+ -
Oh Please!
croberts 31st Mar 2008
You know what, there are a million things more important than this format issue.

At the end of the day, instead of asking or negotiating with MS to submit XLS and DOC to ISO, someone decided that

a) Microsoft is evil
b) Binary formats are bad
c) XML is so vital that we can't poop without it

Those someones are in the open source community and largely based in Europe.

Note to the opera guys.... maybe you should concentrate on getting the 9.5 browser out for mobile devices.

But of course telling a country that you know best is much more fun.
0 Votes
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Please
zkiwi 31st Mar 2008
Can you perhaps explain why with a large majority voting no how that vote was somehow turned into a yes?
0 Votes
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No mystery
croberts 31st Mar 2008
It was an arbitrary choice on the part of a bureaucrat representing his country.

At the end of the day, the technocrats don't make policy. They suggest a course of action and *governments* make policy.

Was the government influenced by Microsoft? Maybe. Probably.

But "open source" isn't some isolated benelovent entity. It's real companies trying to make real money, and I'm sure the Opera guys were lobbying with the best of them.

But that is an issue for Norway. People can vote out the representatives that allowed the decision during the next election if they are dissatisfied.

My guess, the average person in Norway is more concerned about other things.
0 Votes
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RDF alert
zkiwi 31st Mar 2008
According to you then normal procedure is setting up a voting procedure, asking people to vote and then ignoring their votes and concerns.

And of course it's not a problem because people have other things to worry about.

Next you'll be saying that OOXML is a perfect standard specification that needs no alteration or fixing.
0 Votes
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The people who were voting were voting in an advisory capacity. They were never empowered to be the final word in a decisionmaking structure.

OOXML being perfect or not is completely besides the point.

If perfection was the sole criteria for making a decision then the world would look a lot different that it is now.
0 Votes
+ -
Regardless of the technical committee why even have them vote. Oh, and how clever do you think it is for them to ignore their technical people when they're telling them there are big issues?

Being perfect (or at least stable) is entirely the point. Fast track procedures were put in place for such "de facto" standards. OOXML is brand new and broken if you haven't noticed.

So, when do you think the standard is going to be stable, and implementable? This year? Some nebulous time in the future? Never?
0 Votes
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Being stable is entirely the point?
croberts 31st Mar 2008
Wow.

This coming from (I assume) a supporter of open source.

How ironic then that it is always the open source community that releases software with version numbers like 0.0.1. So it is OK in one instance to create something imperfect and release it on the assumption it will evolve and improve, and in another instance nothing less than perfection is acceptable?
0 Votes
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Re: Being stable is entirely the point?
none none 31st Mar 2008
How ironic then that it is always the open source community that releases software with version numbers like 0.0.1. So it is OK in one instance to create something imperfect and release it on the assumption it will evolve and improve, and in another instance nothing less than perfection is acceptable?

I'm agnostic on the OOXML ratification, but that argument requires a response.

Software releases with v0.0.1 and such are more like when your job asks you to sit on a committee to explore possible process tweaks on selected pilot projects. You would not immediately make an SOP out of cocktail napkin scribblings.

They are not instances of the same thing. ISO ratification is the SOP, not the process enhancement committee's recommendations.




happy

ISO ratification is like
0 Votes
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Well...
zkiwi 31st Mar 2008
The deal is that this was put on the fast-track, which is supposed to be for stable specifications. OOXML is anything but stable, or for that matter much past version 0.1, which might be a charitably high number wink

Anyhow, I do think that having opened it up to ISO committees it's probably going to die that classically drawn out and painful death that committees are famous for inducing.
0 Votes
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Get real
mark@... 31st Mar 2008
and learn about the idea of free markets, which need competition to operate.

If you think that Windows Vista is all that computing could have achieved (it's 2008 remember), then well done, Microsoft have successfully brainwashed you.
0 Votes
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Sure
croberts 31st Mar 2008
You're right. It's 2008 and our best software is based on late 1960's computing ideas (both Linux and NT).

I would have expected something a lot more StarTrek-ish by now in terms of AI, etc. And you are right, Microsoft with their billions really fell short.

But at the end, compared to what?

Call me when there is an open source project that resembles the computer on the Enterprise.
0 Votes
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Star Trek?
fewiii 31st Mar 2008
Hey, I love Star Trek, but there are a few problems with your talkback:
1) Star Trek is a {i}TV Show{/i}.
2) Star Trek is a {i}fictional{/i} account of life in the {i}twenty-third{/i} century (twenty-fourth for Nex Gen).

Even if you discount the fictional aspects, we still have 200 years plus to go!
0 Votes
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How dare he?
John L. Ries 31st Mar 2008
If it hadn't been for the Evil News Media (tm), MS would never have been sued for antitrust violations anywhere in the world, and MS would never have had to go through this standards stupidity in the first place because their dominant position would have been completely secure and the development and use of free software would have been limited to a small number of hippie academics.

People keep trying the "blame the media" approach, but it only seems to convince people who didn't like the press coverage to begin with.
Kinda funny how even though OOXML is supposedly "broken", is is in use more than ODF, even though Office 2007 has been on the market for much less than Open/StarOffice.
0 Votes
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not true
tombalablomba 31st Mar 2008
There is no full implementation of OOXML available not even office 2007 supports it fully
0 Votes
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Well, sort of
Yagotta B. Kidding 31st Mar 2008
There is no full implementation of OOXML available not even office 2007 supports it fully

Actually, the conformance criteria are so loose that just about anything supports it -- there is no such thing as "fully." Almost the entire specification is optional.

What that means in practice is that nobody ever will write any applications to the spec. There's not point -- the only point, in practice, is to be compatible with MSO2k7, and to the point that MSo2k7 doesn't support a feature of the specification, it would be suicidal for an application to use it. Likewise, where MSo2k7 varies from the specification any other application will have to do it MS' way rather than the official one.

That's why OpenOffice.org has stated that they will not be supporting (D)IS-29500 but will have load and save to MSo2k7.

This whole exercise will turn out to be a technical nullity. The only point to it all is to allow government agencies to require Microsoft Office and compatible software without the flagrantly violating laws prohibiting vendor-specific purchases.
0 Votes
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haha microsoft greased some wheels
Been_Done_Before 31st Mar 2008
Green is still king.
0 Votes
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Yes it is
GuidingLight 31st Mar 2008
In the end, it's about MONEY!

am sure a great many of these countries that have their own Linux startups would favor anything, even if it was not in the public's best interest, if they thought that it would leave Microsoft out of some markets.

I am sure money from both sides of was flowing freely from all the countries over the past few weeks. wink
0 Votes
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But we're not supposed to care about that
John L. Ries 31st Mar 2008
Money is supposed to drive political decision making and only stupid goo-goos would ever want to to be otherwise.
0 Votes
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Show me a single product using OOXML
wackoae 31st Mar 2008
Fact is not even MS Office Vista supports OOXML.

So you statement about OOXML being used more than ODF is 100% false. You can't claim market share when there isn't a single product in the market that supports OOXML.
0 Votes
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ISO has lost all respect in the standards community. Tis a real shame...
0 Votes
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I expected better from Norway
bblackmoor@... 31st Mar 2008
I expected better from the people of Norway. That Norway permitted three Microsoft shills to override the clear and unambiguous technical recommendations of their experts is nothing short of shameful.

Shame, Norway! Shame!
0 Votes
+ -
Truer words were never spoken
Ole Man 31st Mar 2008
The keynote of the day is shame and
disgrace.

ISO = I sold out
The results should have been released THIS morning Europe time, or very, very early here. What in the HECK is going on????
0 Votes
+ -
Microsoft bought what they wanted!
wizardb@... 31st Mar 2008
Big surprise if you can't do it up front buy you support through the back door,same old ,same old!!
0 Votes
+ -
Remember the working definition of "Broken" is 'built by Microsoft' and the working definitions of "Scandal" and "Fraud" are 'a vote for OOXML'. Frankly there is not one trustworthy iota of information on OOXML available from any source, and the ABM'ers are as guilty as MS if not more so of back office bickering and dirty politicing.

Basically this whole exercise is one more facet of the EU's Anything But Microsoft campaign.

P.S. See today's headlines on MS's record fines for confirmation.
0 Votes
+ -
Only scandle is OpenSource bullying
Martin_Australia 31st Mar 2008
The only scandal here is the outright brainwashing, blackmailing and bullying by the so called intelligensia who as the vocal minority think they represent the best interests and moral high ground for the majority. How stacked in favour of open source backed ODF are the boards of these organisations? That is the scandal here.

So, let???s see - if ODF wins its great news, a great win for ???openness??? and if OOXML wins it???s a conspiracy and Microsoft greased the wheels to make it happen. C'mon, let???s get serious here for once. OOXML is still probably the best standard for the majority of people and it wouldn???t have got his far and this close if it wasn???t up to far technically.

The majority of the world uses Microsoft Office products and Microsoft has released an ISO standard which nobody so far had overwhelmingly rejected on the basis of purely technical merits (removing all emotional anti-Microsoft swill) and nobody has overwhelmingly rejected ODF as the standard (but because this is a 'competitor' to Microsoft and not technically superior to OOXML the Open Source community has adopted it as their preferred standard regardless of the pure technical scope of both standards.

So who is bullying, greasing and culturally blackmailing people on this issue? Open source community is and their minority intelligensia representatives who would simply vote of anything which was competition to Microsoft. How fair, balanced and in the best interests of consumers is that?

Hypocrites - if the open source community doesn't like the decision if it goes to OOXML they simply cry conspiracy but fail to look at and see the bullying, lobbying and greasing conducted by them in their own backyard - hypocrites.
0 Votes
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Did you think that up yourself?
zkiwi 31st Mar 2008
Just in case you didn't notice. It's the ISO that publishes a standard (after what is supposed to be due process and consideration), not Microsoft. Or do you think that Microsoft is the ISO or controls it?

Ah well, if you're right about Microsoft being able to publish an ISO standard, I'll just dash off a few of them and publish them myself.
0 Votes
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Utter trash!
Ole Man 31st Mar 2008
According to what you are spouting,
if you knew what the definition and
purpose of an "Open Standard" is, you
would have to hide your face in
shame.
0 Votes
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is what comes out of your mouth
code_Warrior 31st Mar 2008
Need I say more
0 Votes
+ -
I'm sure EVERYBODY is breathlessly
awaiting YOUR invaluable opinion....
so much depends on it!
0 Votes
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is what comes out of your mouth
code_Warrior 31st Mar 2008
Its visible for everyone to see. Need I say more.
0 Votes
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yesssss... spout off some more
Ole Man 1st Apr 2008
Demonstrate your brilliance, for all
the world to see..... I'm sure
everyone is impressed.
0 Votes
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I agree, Microsoft wins and we loose
John Musbach 1st Apr 2008
With ISO certification of Microsoft's OOXML Office document format Microsoft can now rest peacefully as their government contracts stay intact and they continue to collect their fees. Yet this gives no benefit to any of us end users, why? Simple, OOXML is not a open standard. It has many proprietary bits tied into Microsoft's latest Office suite, such that even Microsoft had to release a converter in order for the format to be read in their Office 2004 mac product. I am very sad that this format has received ISO certification and to me this seriously discredits the ISO standard and what it stands for. It is clear now that ISO standardization is not truly about meeting the standards but rather about how much money, power, and influence you have on your market.

- John Musbach
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RE: 'Scandal' over Norway's vote for OOXML
alec.wood@... 21st Apr 2008
Whenever Microsoft wins we all win

ROFLMAO

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