New survey makes me wonder: Who's buying electric and hybrid cars, anyway?

By | October 28, 2010, 7:00am PDT

When you think about surveys touting the benefits of cars, or lack thereof, the researcher that probably jumps to your mind first is the venerable J.D. Power and Associates. So it was with great interest that I read an item about the firm’s new report about hybrid electric and battery electric vehicles.

The J.D. Power take on this sector? By 2020, only 7.3 percent of the estimated 71 million vehicles that will be sold that year (worldwide) will fall into the category. That’s right, only 5.2 million units. In case you’re wondering, right now, approximately 2.2 percent of the approximately 44.7 million cars sold this year will fall into the hybrid electric or battery electric category.

Here’s the prognosis from John Humphrey, senior vice president of automotive operations at J.D. Power and Associates:

“Based on our research of consumer attitudes toward these technologies–and barring significant changes to public policy, including tax incentives and higher fuel economy standards–we don’t anticipate a mass migration to green vehicles in the coming decade.”

Huh, over the next 10 years that’s all the progress we can expect?

Apparently, these are the reasons consumers are stalling on electric (nothing is really a surprise):

  • Dislike of their design
  • Worries about reliabilty
  • Dissatisfaction with performance and power
  • Concerns over driving range
  • Concerns over how long it takes to recharge

According to J.D. Power, there just isn’t enough going on in the world to motivate consumers to make the switch. J.D. Power says that widespread adoption won’t happen unless the following occurs:

  • Gas and petroleum prices rise substantially
  • There is a big green tech breakthrough that reduces the cost of the alternative
  • The government initiates a policy to help with these services
  • China adopts some sort of nationwide policy to promote alternative-energy vehicles

So, in other words, all of you worry about how your electric grid will be affected when all your neighbors go electric can chill out. Realistically, how often do people buy cars? I’m probably out of the norm, because I buy rather than lease, but I’ve had exactly three cars in my life, and I’m not as young as I used to be.

In my opinion, the place that the carmakers really need to focus is on the financial implications of buying or leasing an electric vehicle. Helping consumers understand the true costs over the life of an electric car versus a convention one is an equation that more automotive companies need to address — and not with complicated math equations but with language that helps break it down into a monthly conversation. Because, realistically, consumers think of cars in terms of monthly payments.

More from J.D. Power analyst Humphrey:

“Many consumers say they are concerned about the environment, but when they find out how much a green vehicle is going to cost, their altrustic inclination declines considerably. For example, among consumers in the U.S. who initially say they are interested in buying a hybrid vehicle, the number declines by some 50 percent when they learn of the extra $5,000, on average, it would cost to acquire the vehicle.”

My question is, does it really cost that much more over the lifetime? We don’t really know and until we do, more people won’t start buying.

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Heather Clancy is an award-winning business journalist with a passion for green technology and corporate sustainability issues.

Disclosure

Heather Clancy

Writing publicly about what the high-tech industry is actually doing to help itself and the world get greener or more sustainable is one way I figure I can contribute more meaningfully to said effort. I am also a big OMG-kind-of-fan of smart leadership, which is why the goodly folks who publish this blog let me go on about this topic and why I am always on the hunt for forward-looking business management ideas.

My daily writing is focused on looking for topics for my blogs, GreenTech Pastures and Business Brains. I also write often about emerging technology trends such as mobile computing, unified communications and cloud computing. Occasionally, I will pop up at an industry conference in some sort of speaking capacity. In cases where a speaking engagement involves a sponsor that may be covered in this blog, that fact will be disclosed in coverage as appropriate.

My corporate writing work usually consists of crafting research white papers about some aspect of technology. In the event that my commentary (in written, audio or video form) mentions a company for which I have provided consulting advice, I will disclose that fact. However, there is no connection between these projects and the topics that I am covering in my blog.

Biography

Heather Clancy

Heather Clancy is an award-winning business journalist with a passion for green technology and corporate sustainability issues. Her articles have appeared in Entrepreneur, Fortune Small Business, The International Herald Tribune and The New York Times. In a past corporate life, Heather was editor of Computer Reseller News, where she was a featured speaker about everything from software as a service to IT security to mobile computing.

Heather started her journalism life as a business writer with United Press International in New York. She holds a B.A. in English literature from McGill University in Montreal, Quebec, and has a thing for Lewis Carroll.

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endorphine
Peter38 4th Aug
@endorphine44 Honda fit forever Order cheap cipro , Order cheap amoxil , Order cheap lasix
people don't want cracker box electric cars, we're being forced into them with bogus EPA/CAFE regulations. The only reason these cars are within the same price range of a normal car is because of government subsidies to the manufacturers. So my tax money is paying for part of an electric car that no one wants to drive.

If you want a small, fuel efficient car buy a honda civic, it's cheaper up front and gets 40mpg. You'll never make up the additional cost of a hybrid on the difference in gas mileage.
@endorphine44
I completely agree.
As a small eco-friendly car I ended up getting a Civic - better value for the money and the hybrid did not get me much extra for the price difference.

fyi: my Civic - 30 city, 40+ highway.
@endorphine44

I have to disagree. You will never get 40 mpg in real world driving of your Honda Civic, and the best mpg model is a dog that can't keep up with fast lane traffic.

I've been driving the Honda Civic Hybrid for over four years and I do get about 40 mpg in real world driving, ~80 mile daily commute. It works for me because I get the performance of the big engine Civic with a bit better mpg than the small engine Civic.

It works for me which is why I bought it, it wouldn't work for my wife she does too much city short trip. The Pirus might work for her, but she thinks it ugly and too small.

We buy what will work best for us now, not to buy into some half-baked "save the planet" crap. The planet will still be here long after we've gone the way of the dinosaurs.
@wkulecz
If the hybrids work for you, great. I'm not saying they shouldn't be produced or pursued as an option, but they should compete in the free market with other vehicles. I don't like subsidizing them with my tax money, same goes for solar panels...when they're cost effective I'll buy them. Until then, don't use my tax money to support it.
@wkulecz

My 2002 Honda Civic EX (bought new off the lot, currently with 150K on the odometer) consistently gets 34-36 MPG with a mix of city and highway driving, has yet to require any maintenance that isn't on the maintenance schedule.

I live in NJ and commute up the New Jersey Turnpike and Garden State Parkway. I can come off an exit ramp and be cruising at 70 MPH in no time flat.

I'm confident that if I continue to change the oil every 5000 miles, I'll be able to give it to my daughter when she graduates college in 2.5 years.

I've compared this to friend's Prius and Focus hybrids. They get comparable mileage and fuel consumption, but I'm a heck of lot happier with my Civic than they are with their cars.

Perhaps my next car will be a Tesla (no more child support or college tuition to pay! Woo hoo!), but more likely I'll go for another Civic or an Acura.
@endorphine44

I bought a hybrid Prius. It's a car that looks like it was built in the 21C rather than the 20C and has modern features. It's a solid, responsive car that I fill up once a month (my previous 6 cyl Ford was once a week) and has a range of around 1200k on one tank. Despite all the propanganda, it's great on the highway and long trips and it's always fun to occasionally out accelerate some dinosaur petrol head at the traffic lights (having an electric motor with instant torque combined with the petrol engine will do that).

Why did I get one? I wanted to reduce my reliance on petrol and take down my pollution. It's price was comparable to any mid range car and battery replacement in 8 years is no longer expensive.

The real question is why are you still driving a petrol driven car? As soon as the pluggable versions become available I'll get one.

It is possible for males to not confuse their cars with their genitalia wink
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Out accelerate?
Tommy S. 8th Nov 2010
@tonymcs@... a 1990 Ford Festiva?
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endorphine
Peter38 4th Aug
@endorphine44 Honda fit forever Order cheap cipro , Order cheap amoxil , Order cheap lasix
Electric vehicles are the fad du jour for hipster doofuses. Those of us who actually think about this stuff are waiting for fuel cells.
@Vesicant

I hope I live long enough to see it. A fuel cell that can power a car could power my off-grid dream house.
@wkulecz

I already built my off-grid dream house. Two solar panels charging 6 deep-cycle marine batteries and the entire house wired for 12 volt. The only thing I need to fire up a generator for is a clothes washer/dryer and a dish washer.
@Vesicant
Good luck waiting for those - if you think hybrid cars are too expensive, you'll have an aneurysm over the cost of a fuel cell. And the cost of fuel cells is coming down even slower than it is for batteries.

Right now I have a older model Honda Insight (the 2-seat version), and I agree that the lifetime cost of ownership is no better and probably just slightly worse than for a standard gasoline-powered compact car. Gas-electric hybrids will not be really viable on their own until the cost of the batteries comes way down so that when (not if) they need to be replaced it will not require a 2nd mortgage on your house.
@doodlius I can only assume that "if you think..." is the generic you, since nowhere did I mention the cost of anything. But as an example, the Honda FCX Clarity leases for $600 a month, which is up there but not totally outrageous.
@Vesicant

Electric vehicles are the fad du jour for hipster doofuses.


like iPhones? I hate apple just like I hate Microsoft. But the iPhone is a fad that has driven an industry. It's not going to die. It also started with the people that wanted to be cool and had/have to much money to spend.

No, I don't own an iPHone and NEVER WILL. The electric car, naaa. I would rather go with a bio fuel. Hopefully algae biofuels will become a reality.
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All I can say is that ...
Economister Updated - 28th Oct 2010
J.D. Power has a very firm grasp on the obvious. If the automotive environment (fuel costs, regulations, technology etc.) remains the same, consumer buying patterns and preferences will remain the same.

The corollary is also rather elementary. Who are these guys?

Edit:

Ah, I remember. These are the jokers who came up with the term "initial quality" to help American car makers sell more cars. What the hell is "initial quality" anyway.
@Economister
initial quality = hey we built this one correctly from the factor...probably!
I own a Camry hybrid and I love the car to death. I'm averaging 33.7 MPG overall driving--and I'm not that good at the hypermiling game.

I have, on occasion managed 38MPG on the way home from work, but usually going to work in the morning I'm averaging 33.

Now, my girlfriend and I recently took a long trip (about 1,300 miles total) and with her driving we sustained nearly 40MPG.

In a Camry. happy

The car comes with all kinds of toys, so this isn't an eco-box by any means. It's quiet, it's fairly quick, and it's pretty roomy. I can carry 5 in comfort.

Note I also have a 500 mile range, on average! With a refueling time measured in minutes, like any other car. On top of that this car burns *regular* gas, no premium needed.

Now compare that to an electric car where you're converting the electrity generation carbon costs into MPG.

Not that much better MPG, a range of less than 100 miles, and twice the cost of my hybrid? No thank you!

Hybrids are great. Electrics suck. Don't mix the two together like they're the same, because you're comparing diamonds and weasels...

Give us a battery breakthrough, like that carbon nanotube cathode they're talking about, with quick recharge, 10x capacity and thousands of recharge cycles without capacity loss, and then we'll talk about electrics.

Till then, electrics are a non-starter.

Period.
@wolf_z

I like your point there. In digital cameras, we went from film to digital, and the number of photos increased from 25 or 37 to the thousands on a single card. Give me a car that does substantially better than a gasoline-based on, and you're going to see breakthrough.
@wolf_z

I would only agree with you if hybrids cost the same as non-hybrids, but they don't, and undoubtedly some of my tax dollar went to help pay for yours. There are plenty of cars out there that get 30+ MPG without the cost, weight, and complexity of a hybrid drive system. I had a 2002 VW Jetta automatic that AVERAGED 33 MPG, even at almost 8 years old. Obviously the highway MPG was considerably higher.

Regarding cars in general, the whole fallacy of hybrid cars is the assumption that people will drive the same total miles regardless of MPG or cost. For me at least, that is absolutely untrue. When the cost of gas goes down, I drive further, so my TOTAL cost is the same. Same thing when I got a more efficient car - I drove to places further away than I would have previously. So even with a higher MPG, I'm not using less gas!

And the fallacy of electric cars is that they are somehow more efficient. Well, fossil fuel driven power plants are about as efficient as internal combustion engines. There is no such thing as "clean" electricity. The ores and minerals needed to build solar cells, windmills, and copper wires still need to be mined, refined, and transported significant distances. It's amazing how much pollution is generated for a supposedly "green" products.
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Efficiency
osreinstall 29th Oct 2010
@aep528

Actually a ICE in an auto or motorcycle if it is gasoline is about 20-22% efficient. Diesel is about 32% for cars and trucks. A coal fired boiler in an electric power plant is around 45% efficient. There are some line losses but electric cars are more efficient overall. Diesel-Electric hybrid would be very efficient and eliminate the battery charge time problem. Works for locomotives.
@aep528

Point 1: My hybrid Camry cost about the same as my 2003 V6 SLE Camry, which averaged 22 MPG. It has *more* toys on it than the previous car, it's like driving a starship compared to a steam-engine.

Point 2: The hybrid system has additional benefits that a non-hybrid simply can't match. My hybrid is only a tiny bit smaller than my old one (which was frankly a bit of a whale). I basically lost about 1/2 the trunk, the interior's just as big. But in addition to the smaller gas engine I also get better performance in stop/go traffic--the main engine is shut down and the electric does all the grunt work, meaning you don't sit with an idling engine in rush hour traffic.

Let's also not forget the regenerative braking that recovers power to the battery *also* extends brake life, which is a benefit both to brake longevity, eco-system, and my pocket book. happy

Point 3: Your driving habits are strange. I don't drive that much, and my driving habits aren't terribly constrained by gas prices--it's more a comfort/time issue. When I went on this vacation it was close enough to drive, and since I was going come hell or high water (or hurricanes, heh) it didn't matter what gas cost.

However my old Camry needed premium to feel well, and my new Camry needs regular--which helps my pocket book. Not to mention I go twice as long between fillups. But it doesn't change my driving habits.

Point 4: Toyota is eating the cost of the hybrid to get it out there, so no your taxes didn't help, especially considering the car was built in Japan, not the US.

Point 5: I do agree about the tree-huggers ignoring the back-end hidden costs of their silver bullet du jour. happy
@wolf_z
" I own a Camry hybrid and I love the car to death. I'm averaging 33.7 MPG overall driving--and I'm not that good at the hypermiling game.

I have, on occasion managed 38MPG on the way home from work, but usually going to work in the morning I'm averaging 33.

These figures are no better than an all gas fueled Camry. So I don't understand your excitement.

The Government allows Car Makers to install kludgie shut-off switches and coasting shut-off switches to replace a full fledged electric drive system and STILL! call the car a Hybrid. They are not !

My Nissan Altima has a full electric drive system that propels the car with the engine off until I break 45 M.P.H. Below 45 M.P.H., the gas engine and the electric motor trade places while driving and produce solid gas M.P.G. figures in the fifties! I have broken 70 M.P.G. during the late Spring to Early Fall! - With an average of 60-Plus M.P.G. for the tank. I do not attempt Hyper-Mileage. I do keep my tires inflated per their sidewall and not the Manufacture's door placard. I also drive conservatively.

In the Altima, the electric motor runs all the time assisting the engine. So highway and city mileage for me, vary by only a few M.P.G. - And yes, Nissan warranties the electric motor for 15 years or 150,000 miles. Whichever comes first.

People need to research their purchase to see if they are really buying a Hybrid or a car that is a "Kludge" Hybrid. Shoppers, know what you are buying before you buy!
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Um, no.
wolf_z 29th Oct 2010
@The Rifleman

My old Camry (2003) was a V6, needed premium gas to feel her best, and got 22 MPG on average.

My new car is the same size (roughly, lost about 1/2 the trunk) and gets 11 MPG better! (that's 33% if you're keeping score). Oh, and it burns regular. happy

And yes, the Camry is a hybrid, the electric and gas engines cooperate, using intelligent choices on when to use which.

So, it's not a kludge, it's actually quite elegant. I think your ire would be better directed at Honda, actually.
@The Rifleman Maybe if you had done just a bit more research you would know that the Altima Hybrid is built using the hybrid technology that Nissan *licensed* from TOYOTA. Though I agree that full hybrids are far superior to Honda's partial or light hybrid or whatever they're calling it.

Also, it's *very* hard to compare your hybrid MPG to another user's. These things vary quite a bit based on ambient temperature, change in elevation, humidity, and some other things. For real world data, do a search. One site I've used is www.greenhybrid.com.

As for thinking 33 MPG is no better than a standard Camry, I'd be willing to bet that for HIS COMMUTE (the user who reported it), it is much better.

My VW Passat was a 4-cylinder Turbo with 150 HP that took Premium gasoline. My 6 year lifetime average was 26.3 MPG (hand-calculated, *every* tank). My Camry Hybrid, in 4 years, is averaging 36.3 MPG in the same driving conditions. My *worst* tank was 29.2 during a very snowy/icy period where I was only doing short trips. I have gotten 40+ MPG on several highway-only trips.

As for the performance, I like it *much* better than my Passat, my Altima, and my Mazda 626.
I traded in my 2006 Chevy Impala for a Nissan Altima Hybrid because it was actually cheaper than buying a 2009 Impala for more than $30,000! Final price on my Hybrid Altima which!, by-the-way, is the same size as the current Impala, was 18G's and change! It's M.S.R.P. was only $27,000 before sales incentives and haggling. I received an additional $3,000-plus from the Feds on my next year's tax return too! Final price approximately $15,000!

Today's M.S.R.P. at Nissan is only $23,000 before sales incentives and the return from the Feds. So don't through cost of acquisition into things where Hybrids are concerned.

This Summer I rolled over 30,000 miles and scored 903 miles on 1 tank of gas with 3 gallons left in the tank! I do drive conservatively but, obviously, the mileage is there if you want it.

Protean in England has solved charge time and performance issues. Now we just need to get the price of this technology down to earth and Electric Cars will cost no more than an all gas car now.

At Lightning Motors in England, the all Electric Lightning GT sports 750 BHP equivalent with a total charge time of ten minutes from low to full. So J.D. Powers is only re-enforcing public opinion and thus!, is part of the adoption problem and not the solution!
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Better to promote density
sbrightman 29th Oct 2010
I completely agree with the person that bought the Civic; begs the question of how much incremental energy and impact for the batteries vs. a standard engine.

If we really want to make a difference promote dense, livable communities. Better schools in our cities (charter?), prioritizing government resources to promote and invest in urban housing. Give young families and retiring seniors a reason to give up the suburban lifestyle.
@sbrightman Sarah, is that you? I didn't know sopranos were New Urbanists. But sadly, it's a crock. Read this.

http://www.newgeography.com/content/001722-urban-legends-why-suburbs-not-dense-cities-are-future
@Vesicant not Sarah. I guarantee that you will find that the urban living arrangement consumes less energy (with less driving, lack of lawns/landscaping, less square footage of living space to furnish, etc). The energy consumption of common spaces in apartment buildings, especially when aggregated over a large number of residents, will not come close to compensating for these suburban consumer needs. Can't make the argument about lifestyle, second homes, etc. My suburban neighbors are very busy buying second homes, third cars, etc.
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Liberals are the...
Hatestone Johnson 29th Oct 2010
...Environmentally Retarded. They're the ones buying them.
If you want really good gas mileage, you are much better off with a modern diesel engine. And if you include the huge pollution involved in the production and disposal of electric cars, the diesel will pollute less. For a more responsive alternative, you could switch to natural gas as fuel as it costs about on third for the same energy as ordinary gasoline. Most cars can be converted to it for a couple of thousand dollars.

Batteries of electric cars are similar to those in notebook computers, and they seldom last more than five years, if that. They are also expensive to replace. The production of those batteries involves polluting processes, and so does the disposal.

And, as for pure electric cars, we need to build a lot more non-polluting nuclear power plants and improve out power grid before they are a viable alternative.
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The most basic of economic equations (for greenies)
adornoe@... Updated - 29th Oct 2010
When the cost of "going green" means spending a lot more "green", then, the vast majority will not be as interested in the greenery.

Cost of green >> non-green = lack of interest (or no deal)

"When the cost of the green product is much, much greater than the non-green, then, no sale".
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Best alternative for now.
osreinstall Updated - 29th Oct 2010
Why not buy a VW Jetti TDI turbo diesel inline 3 1500cc? It gets about 65 mpg hwy and 40 in the city and is about 18 grand. The 2000cc inline 4 turbo diesel gets 55 hwy and 35 city and about 20 grand. Right now battery tech is awful but the motor is great. When the battery technology catches up, all electric will be the way to go.
@osreinstall I think diesel requires 2x the amount of crude oil? Frankly, we're more likely to be done in by the politics of oil before its environmental impact
@sbrightman

Refineries do have synthetic cracking methods to get more diesel out of 42 gallons (1 barrel) of oil. European refineries are different than ours and since we haven't built one in 30+ years, it would be doable. But oil will be depleted by 2060 according to dieoff.org. When that happens, the earth will be here along with the iceburgs. Think horses, windmills and bicycles happy
Like it or not Electric vehicles are coming. No matter what argument you try to make against them, you are wrong. They are the only thing that makes sense.
The difference this time around for trying to get people into electric vehicles is the scaremongering going on about global warming/climate change/CO2. A bad idea is still a bad idea, no matter what new justifications people dream up.

And, hey, electric vehicles are NOT going to catch on, even if 5% or more are willing to go and do their "civic duty" about going green.
Hi @ Heather Clancy ,I guess this is our first meet happy Great story hard subject . I have personally kept up with this particular subject over the years. With mild research from news , history TV ,etc.. battery life , battery replacement , mileage ,Well to make a long story short ,ironically the battery material needed comes form the same middle east places the gas does . Anyway IMO tesla motors has solved most of the faq about the electric autos .except for the US$101500 price tag. I wanted to add that ( It is a new infrastructure that is needed ). What needs to be built , to accommodate the modern vehicles is safer roads an intersection , so no more needless automobile deaths have to occur. I hope to read more about it happy EOF
We have a Prius and a semi restored 1970 426hemi Plymouth 'cuda

The definition of carbon neutral!
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I will keep my EvoX RS.
Tommy S. 8th Nov 2010
I could trick anyone into believing its an Eco-firendly car! Its a 2.0L inline 4. Hell it doesn't have any catalytic converter but the flames are so pretty when they come out of the exhaust! The only ''eco'' car that I would be willing to consider would have to be powered by an H burning internal combustion engine.

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