How Microsoft/Yahoo Can Beat Google In the Enterprise

By | February 7, 2008, 1:21pm PST

Summary: It’s simple: Microsoft should make its online apps conform to real world requirements for data security and integrity, instead of the Google-uber-alles terms of service that Google sets forth for its Google Apps users. Having just added some new work group features, you think that Google would have gotten these issues figured out already. Not. [...]

It’s simple: Microsoft should make its online apps conform to real world requirements for data security and integrity, instead of the Google-uber-alles terms of service that Google sets forth for its Google Apps users. Having just added some new work group features, you think that Google would have gotten these issues figured out already. Not.

I’ve written about this before, and, while there was some question about my reading of the TOS at the time, I think it’s pretty clear what’s really going on. For the privilege of using Google’s services, including Apps, for free, the sucker…customer gets to forgo pretty much any reasonable protection for the content — documents, spreadsheets, etc. (see below) — that it places inside a Google service. That should pretty much make it a non-starter for any real company trying to do real business using a Google App. Unless PT Barnum was really right….

First, let’s clarify what content is. Here’s the wording from the Google Terms of Service page:

“data files, written text, computer software, music, audio files or other sounds, photographs, videos or other images)”

Then, let’s clarify what Google says you have given it the right to do with your content, even though it generously lets you keep your copyright: (the typos are courtesy Google’s legal department, which forgot to use a word processor with a spell-checker.)

11.1 ….. By submitting, posting or displaying the content you give Google a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive licence to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute any Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services. This licence is for the sole purpose of enabling Google to display, distribute and promote the Services and may be revoked for certain Services as defined in the Additional Terms of those Services.

Did you catch that last line? The one about displaying your content in order to promote Google’s Services? Which of your business’s content would you want used in this way?

Then there’s the part about how Google can make your content available for syndicated services — i.e. spam and other forms of advertising. Again, what content do you think you’d like shared in this way?

11.2 You agree that this licence includes a right for Google to make such Content available to other companies, organizations or individuals with whom Google has relationships for the provision of syndicated services, and to use such Content in connection with the provision of those services.

Don’t forget the cute little provision about termination of services, which goes like this:

4.3 …. As part of this continuing innovation, you acknowledge and agree that Google may stop (permanently or temporarily) providing the Services (or any features within the Services) to you or to users generally at Google’s sole discretion, without prior notice to you.

And here’s the clincher: Google can also nuke your data when it wants to, with no recourse to the user:

4.4 You acknowledge and agree that if Google disables access to your account, you may be prevented from accessing the Services, your account details or any files or other content which is contained in your account.

So, Microsoft, this one should be easy. Just offer your online service users a reasonable level of protection for their data and other “content.” My guess is that it would cost you absolutely nothing, and make Google’s TOS look like the Big Brother-esque, non-starter, pain in the compliance that it is.

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Joshua Greenbaum

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Greenbaum/?page_id=118

Biography

Joshua Greenbaum

Joshua Greenbaum has over 20 years of experience in the industry as a computer programmer, systems analyst, author, and consultant. In addition to his work from various bases in Silicon Valley, he spent three years in Europe tracking the enterprise software market as an analyst and correspondent for leading industry publications. Josh is an award-winning columnist and is widely quoted in the trade and business press. His opinions on enterprise software have annoyed enough vendors that he now checks under the hood of his PC every morning before he boots up.

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RE: How Microsoft/Yahoo Can Beat Google In the Enterprise
marcpantani1@... 2nd Mar 2008
When Google released Google Sites last week and re-opened the JotSpot wiki it now becomes more likely that large amounts of content will go on the web. I noted that the clause has not changed since you raised the issue last fall:

?By submitting, posting or displaying Content on or through Google services which are intended to be available to the members of the public, you grant Google a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free license to reproduce, adapt, modify, publish and distribute such Content on Google services for the purpose of displaying, distributing and promoting Google services. Google reserves the right to syndicate Content submitted, posted or displayed by you on or through Google services and use that Content in connection with any service offered by Google.?

This is currently posted at http://www.google.com/a/help/intl/en/users/terms.html. I suspect it may change.

Here is an attorney?s point of view. My background: I?m a business and IP licensing lawyer with over 20 years of experience, and I have taught licensing to attorneys and been invited as a guest lecturer at two universities. I?m not saying this to toot my horn (it?s not even my real name below), but this is a forum so everyone has to be able to evaluate the source. Here?s my $0.02.

Google states that ?we don't claim ownership or control over your content.? This is correct but not the whole story. The user agreement does not give Google ownership or control. Google claims a right to use and copy the information. That is the important distinction. Imagine downloading your favorite music from the web. What you want is not ownership or control ? you?ll be happy to leave that with the band. But you would love to have the right to use the music and give copies to your friends, or put it on your personal website, all for free. Effectively this is what Google gets to do.

Google says that the point of this ?publish and distribute? clause is simply to allow them to display and publish the materials on Google Sites. This is a bit disingenuous. If that was the only purpose the license would say so. Google is not restricted in the license to simply publishing on Google Sites. Google gets to use the content ?in connection with any service offered by Google.?

Google states that the license applies only to information that you make available to the public. Again, this is correct but again, this isn?t the whole story. Every page you put on Google Sites has permission control. You can choose to restrict viewing to only those in your business group or your friends, or you can choose to let the public see it. Google?s license says that if you let public see it, then Google can use the material for whatever purpose they wish, without compensation to you.

It gets worse. Read the key paragraph again. There are only two sentences. The first grants a license to Google that is conditional ? it is effective if you making your content public on your Google Site. The second is not conditional. Google simply has complete republishing and use rights. Which sentence takes precedence? I don?t know how a judge would rule. But if Google uses your content and you don?t like it, I?m pretty positive that you won?t want to pay a lawyer to litigate the issue with Google.

What does this mean in practical terms? If you are a good photographer and create a Google Site showing your pictures of your last vacation, and if you clicked on the public button, then Google could use one of your pictures on its website, or in its advertising, or could sell a license to use the picture to others, including stock photography companies such as Corbis. (Stock photography would become ?service offered by Google.?) Similarly, if you wrote an excellent funny story about your experiences on the trip, Google could give or sell a license to that story to Conde Nast Traveler, and Google could pocket the money and owe you no compensation. (Article syndication would become a ?service offered by Google.?) Any business materials posted on public Google Sites pages would have the same result.

It gets even worse if you put your company trademark on the public portion of your Google Site. Under trademark law if a company grants a license to another to use the trademark without restrictions then the trademark ceases to be associated with a particular product and the law says that trademark becomes invalid. The law essentially says that if you don?t care enough about your trademark to protect it and control its use, then that is the same as abandoning it. So if Google has the right to use your trademark for everything from soft drinks to diapers, then you just lost your brand rights.

The situation isn?t all bad. One commenter has brought up a good point, that although the license to Google is worldwide, non-exclusive, and royalty-free, you also can revoke it at any time if someone was using your content and you didn?t like it. If you found out. And could prove that the materials came from Google. Thank heavens for small favors.
0 Votes
+ -
..EULA and let other OSes know how they can take the carpet out from under Windows.

It seems you don't mind tirading about Google, with whom people have a choice of doing "business" or not, but not about Windows EULA, with which we have little choice.
0 Votes
+ -
Does MSFT Do This
josh@... 8th Feb 2008
If I thought the MSFT had similar terms of service -- ownership of customer's data, termination of service and data at any time, etc. -- I'd write about it too. But they're not doing this, at least not in the online/on-demand world. And have no plans to, as far as I have been told. If you know otherwise let us all know.

Josh
0 Votes
+ -
Lets face it. There is no real alternative. Either you tie yourself to folks like Microsoft who make you pay through the nose for the EULAs, or work with the likes of Google, who give you services free, but would do whatever they want to do with the content to monetize it.

There is no free lunch, people!

-MC
Joshua...

Clearly Google attorney's wrote these terms. And they're ressonable. Why? Because Google would not/ will not "publicly display and distribute any Content which you submit,". I've used Google Docs for over a year. WOrks fine and Google isn't repurposing my doc's. It's not in their interest and a firestorm would erupt if they did use people's content.

Your concerns are typical of the IT/Techie crowd and are a manipulation of intent. The good news is that "cloud computing" is now growing (GE, Procter and Gamble and the Walt Disney Company don't seem to mind Google Apps terms of service). Your alarmist views are quaint, but quite irrelevant.

mike whatley
altadena, ca
these TOS disgust me.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
0 Votes
+ -
When Google released Google Sites last week and re-opened the JotSpot wiki it now becomes more likely that large amounts of content will go on the web. I noted that the clause has not changed since you raised the issue last fall:

?By submitting, posting or displaying Content on or through Google services which are intended to be available to the members of the public, you grant Google a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free license to reproduce, adapt, modify, publish and distribute such Content on Google services for the purpose of displaying, distributing and promoting Google services. Google reserves the right to syndicate Content submitted, posted or displayed by you on or through Google services and use that Content in connection with any service offered by Google.?

This is currently posted at http://www.google.com/a/help/intl/en/users/terms.html. I suspect it may change.

Here is an attorney?s point of view. My background: I?m a business and IP licensing lawyer with over 20 years of experience, and I have taught licensing to attorneys and been invited as a guest lecturer at two universities. I?m not saying this to toot my horn (it?s not even my real name below), but this is a forum so everyone has to be able to evaluate the source. Here?s my $0.02.

Google states that ?we don't claim ownership or control over your content.? This is correct but not the whole story. The user agreement does not give Google ownership or control. Google claims a right to use and copy the information. That is the important distinction. Imagine downloading your favorite music from the web. What you want is not ownership or control ? you?ll be happy to leave that with the band. But you would love to have the right to use the music and give copies to your friends, or put it on your personal website, all for free. Effectively this is what Google gets to do.

Google says that the point of this ?publish and distribute? clause is simply to allow them to display and publish the materials on Google Sites. This is a bit disingenuous. If that was the only purpose the license would say so. Google is not restricted in the license to simply publishing on Google Sites. Google gets to use the content ?in connection with any service offered by Google.?

Google states that the license applies only to information that you make available to the public. Again, this is correct but again, this isn?t the whole story. Every page you put on Google Sites has permission control. You can choose to restrict viewing to only those in your business group or your friends, or you can choose to let the public see it. Google?s license says that if you let public see it, then Google can use the material for whatever purpose they wish, without compensation to you.

It gets worse. Read the key paragraph again. There are only two sentences. The first grants a license to Google that is conditional ? it is effective if you making your content public on your Google Site. The second is not conditional. Google simply has complete republishing and use rights. Which sentence takes precedence? I don?t know how a judge would rule. But if Google uses your content and you don?t like it, I?m pretty positive that you won?t want to pay a lawyer to litigate the issue with Google.

What does this mean in practical terms? If you are a good photographer and create a Google Site showing your pictures of your last vacation, and if you clicked on the public button, then Google could use one of your pictures on its website, or in its advertising, or could sell a license to use the picture to others, including stock photography companies such as Corbis. (Stock photography would become ?service offered by Google.?) Similarly, if you wrote an excellent funny story about your experiences on the trip, Google could give or sell a license to that story to Conde Nast Traveler, and Google could pocket the money and owe you no compensation. (Article syndication would become a ?service offered by Google.?) Any business materials posted on public Google Sites pages would have the same result.

It gets even worse if you put your company trademark on the public portion of your Google Site. Under trademark law if a company grants a license to another to use the trademark without restrictions then the trademark ceases to be associated with a particular product and the law says that trademark becomes invalid. The law essentially says that if you don?t care enough about your trademark to protect it and control its use, then that is the same as abandoning it. So if Google has the right to use your trademark for everything from soft drinks to diapers, then you just lost your brand rights.

The situation isn?t all bad. One commenter has brought up a good point, that although the license to Google is worldwide, non-exclusive, and royalty-free, you also can revoke it at any time if someone was using your content and you didn?t like it. If you found out. And could prove that the materials came from Google. Thank heavens for small favors.

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