Hardware 2.0

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Acer: Microsoft hardware rules 'very troublesome'

By Adrian Kingsley-Hughes | May 31, 2011, 2:19pm PDT

Summary: Microsoft is placing ‘troublesome’ restrictions on OEMs manufacturing the next-generation Windows-based tablets, according to Acer CEO J.T. Wang.

Microsoft is placing ‘troublesome’ restrictions on OEMs manufacturing the next-generation Windows-based tablets, according to Acer CEO J.T. Wang.

Speaking at Computex trade show in Taipei, Wang had this to say:

‘They’re really controlling the whole thing, the whole process … all feel it’s very troublesome.’

It’s hard to know whether this will be a good thing or a bad thing for consumers. It really depends what’s behind the restrictions. If it’s about giving users a consistent experience and keeping quality up, and also preventing platform fragmentation (and the associated problems that might cause with updates) then that’s a good thing.

However, if the restrictions are designed to hobble tablets to prevent them cannibalizing Windows PC sales (something we’ve seen Microsoft do to netbooks), then that’s definitely not good for consumers.

We’ll have to wait and see how this plays out, but it’s odd for an OEM to pull Microsoft up publicly like this.

[UPDATE: It's not the first time that Acer has publicly pulled up Microsoft - here's one example - a story by PC Pro's Jon Honeyball from 2006 where Wong complains about the poor value for money offered by Vista Home Basic.

Thanks Jon!]

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Topics

Microsoft Corp., Acer Inc., Tablets, Microsoft Windows, Hardware, Notebooks & Tablets, Operating Systems, Software, Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

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RE: Acer: Microsoft hardware rules 'very troublesome'

MuratCan 16th Sep

jgfd

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Can we get more details on what is troublesome?

facebook@... 31st May

OK, what is troublesome?

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Contributr

RE: Acer: Microsoft hardware rules 'very troublesome'

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes 31st May

@facebook@... No more details ... unfortunately.

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The details: Microsoft, for once, does not allow Acer (etc) to make garbage

DeRSSS 31st May

@Adrian Kingsley-Hughes: ... with its tablet OS.

It is the same as with Windows phones. Acer just did not used to it since the company does not produce phones.

Microsoft's approach copies Apple, yes, and it does not work perfectly every way (Samsung made trash of update experience for Windows phones), but, overall, it promises more consistent quality and user experience; lets see.

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RE: Acer: Microsoft hardware rules 'very troublesome'

bitcrazed 31st May

@facebook@... Probably that they require OEM's to actually step up to the plate and commit to fixing issues within specified timescales, document their manufacturing processes and actually build hardware conforming to stringent power and performance criteria.

In other words, MS may well be asking OEM's to do some real work wink

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Yet another useless fluff piece

archangel9999 1st Jun

@facebook@... Adrian's specialty - light on everything except a sensational clickbait headline - hopefully he gets paid in Cracker Jacks because that's all his articles are worth

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RE: Acer: Microsoft hardware rules 'very troublesome'

SlithyTove 1st Jun

@facebook@...

Probably similar to what they did with phones: minimum specs, certain form-factor rules, etc.

Acer, being the world's purveyor of the ultra-cheap, may be having trouble sourcing the parts that they need through their standard channels.

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That the main problem...

cosuna 1st Jun

@facebook@... : these companies have massive Non Disclosure Agreements with Microsoft, so they can't complain with specifics, but to me, the real reason is driver support for Windows 8 "tablets/slates", I think the development team hasn't had the time to port "everything", so Microsoft—as always arguing for a supposed consistency of the UX/UI—is tightly controlling what goes inside and outside the systems, such as "touch-points", "ports", "form-factor", "radio (3G/4G) chips", "WiFi spec", etc.

So don't expect this babies to shine, considering they will compete against iPad 3 and Xoom 2.

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LoverockDavidson Updated - 1st Jun

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Talking through your hat again?

Economister 31st May

@LoverockDavidson

How the heck do you know how "everyone else" feels about it. You just flap your jaws as usual.

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RE: Acer: Microsoft hardware rules 'very troublesome'

babyboomer57 31st May

@LoverockDavidson - Let's find out what the restrictions are before we come to that conclusion, K?

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RE: Acer: Microsoft hardware rules 'very troublesome'

josh92 31st May

@LoverockDavidson

Acer was right about Vista sucking. They are probably right about this too.

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RE: Acer: Microsoft hardware rules 'very troublesome'

LoverockDavidson 1st Jun

Microsoft's hardware rules are very troublesome for Acer. Everyone else has no problems with it. Besides, its good for the developers and for the consumers.

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Apple does it Google is doing it with Android

Mr. Dee 31st May

Microsoft has set a standard with Windows Phone devices, in terms of screen size, hardware features, just make it much easier for consumers to find them attractive and make developer lives easier when targeting these devices. Microsoft is carrying that over to the Tablet. That's an advantage Apple has with the iPad, consistent UI not recoding necessary unless your targeting both iPhone and iPad in which cases its probably minor adjustments. Microsoft has to contend with major and not so major OEM's running the OS on a variety of configurations. Microsoft wants to avoid the fragmentation, Google realized this and they are trying to fix it with HoneyComb.

Part of Acer's reason why they are complaining is because they were one of the Asian OEM's that were not selected by Microsoft to take part in the early development testing of Windows 8. So they are seeking revenge by bad mouthing.

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RE: Acer: Microsoft hardware rules 'very troublesome'

jeremychappell 31st May

@Mr. Dee Well I agree with what you say about WHY it's happening, but not with your assessment of Acer's reaction.

You are right, Microsoft see Apple's experience with the iPad (and to a lesser extent the Mac) as something it would really like. Microsoft have to work really hard trying to make an OS that runs of a whole gambit of differing devices. Yes, this is hard.

But if you look at it from an OEM perspective things aren't so rosy. Apple make the iPad, there are no OEMs to keep happy. Microsoft need the OEMs to make their devices, the question becomes: "if I can't change things about the device I'm making, how do I differentiate my device in the market?" The OEMs have been used to making machines of all different specifications and convincing customers to buy their system because of these differences. If all machines are the same (or basically the same) won't customers choose the cheapest? Isn't that a "race to the bottom"? The OEMs have already done this, they don't want another round of it. Sure Microsoft want to raise the standard and eliminate the shovelware on new systems. Fine say the OEMs, but who's going to pay for it, and where do our profits come from?

These are going to be difficult questions to answer.

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RE: Acer: Microsoft hardware rules 'very troublesome'

babyboomer57 31st May

@jeremychappell - You are absolutely correct.

It's kind of like NASCAR now where all the cars are identicle except for the paint. Imagine if that were true for all cars. Why would we need more than one manufacturer?

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There are still opportunities

Mr. Dee 31st May

@jeremychappell OEM's have an opportunity to innovate in different areas, whether its targeting certain segments of the market: business, consumer, education, student, colors, hardware features whether better graphics, lots of storage, memory, types of material used, high resolution camera, telephony, plastic vs aluminum, ultra thin vs standard, high resolution vs standard resolution, software bundles, online services, maintenance programs, partnering to offer value beyond the box. OEM's have a lot they can do. The possibilities are endless for what OEM's can do.

Its possible what Microsoft wants is, to just make the UI be what it is without any custom alternate UI like Android. Acer is probably saying, we have an alternate UI we believe is better than the Touch UI in Windows 8. Microsoft is probably not revealing much right now just build momentum. I believe Microsoft wants the software user experience to sell itself, yes, there can be some branding, but limited to what Microsoft wants.

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PC makers faced the same problem in the 90s

WilErz 1st Jun

@ jeremychappell

You don't need to look at Apple to understand Microsoft's approach. Microsoft's conquest of the PC market in the 90s was based on requiring hardware vendors to conform to fairly strict guidelines in order to be allowed to sell Windows on their systems. This was one of the things PC vendors complained about in the USDoJ v Microsoft lawsuit (and one of the reasons Microsoft lost, since by the end of the decade Windows was clearly and overwhelmingly dominant).

As much as some of the PC vendors complained about Microsoft's control of Windows in the 90s, including their use of price discrimination to reward vendors who promoted the Windows platform and punish those who didn't, I'd imagine many of them would be quite happy to exchange their current margins for 1990s margins. In order to be successful, a platform arguably needs some degree of consistency across systems, which requires a leading firm to exercise control.

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90s was based on...

SpikeyMike 2nd Jun

@WilErz - Revisionist! Microsoft didn't give a hoot about WHAT hardware was in the box - they demanded a payment per box, regardless of whether or not Windows went with it. THAT's what the 90's were about. Visit Groklaw.net for a history review.

-Mike

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90s was based on...

SpikeyMike 2nd Jun

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Economister Updated - 1st Jun

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So yet everyone praises Apple's devices

Mister Spock 31st May

@Economister
because of the integration of hardware and software, yet will claim that Microsoft is wrong for doing the same.

Yet when someone points out that Windows encounters issues on particular hardware configurations, they blame Microsoft for not making it more like Apple.

And so how should Microsoft handle this moving forward, as it appears many people here do not want Microsoft to do it correctly, or incorrectly.

plain

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Simple

Economister Updated - 31st May

@Mister Spock

Apple came out with a new OS and HW form factors and was prepared to suffer cannibalization of its notebook and desktop sales. They spent years developing a market presence and a loyal customer base and slowly came out with higher and higher value/performance products. As a result, they achieved a dominant position in this new market and currently are more successful than MS.

An what has MS done? Not much, at least in terms of measurable success preparing for a transition to mobile. If MS had vision and courage, they could have done what Apple did, before Apple did it, and they would have been dominant both on the desktop and in mobile. They could have been twice as profitable and twice as valuable. MS is paranoid about destroying their cash cows, because they do not know how to make a lot of money any other way. Their focus has always been to try to sell more Windows licenses, and they have hit a brick wall because the market is changing.

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let's get straight

FADS_z 31st May

@Economister
MS is good in software, Apple is most in hardware (especiall in design).

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350 million Windows 7 licenses prove otherwise

Mr. Dee 31st May

@Economister The fact that Windows is on 1.2 billion systems and the same old dead prediction about Windows becoming irrelevant have been preached for the last 10 years proves that the Open Source Propaganda still don't get it.

Microsoft gets it more than you guys, the fact that they are also supporting ARM is part of what makes Windows innovative. Microsoft knows how to think ahead, the execution might be a bit wobbly at first, but once they get moving, there is no stopping them.

You have already concluded that Windows 8 on future Tablets will be big, heavy and power hungry, considering that you have not used Windows 8 (since it is still in development) and you don't have access to future hardware thats not available nowhere yet. Look at Intel introducing UltraBooks with new hibernation capabilities. Microsoft is obviously engineering Windows 8 to be more power efficient thats why they providing these new guidelines that "some" OEMs are not happy about.

You blame big, heavy and expensive on Microsoft, considering that 10 years ago, there was nothing better. If Apple decided to create an iPad in 2002, it probably would have the thickness of an iBook, simply because, the hardware had not reached the maturity and sophistication to achieve the desired form factor. Now it has with ARM, SoC and the engineering efforts Microsoft is investing in Windows.

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Same tired, old, everything but the kitchen sink...

Economister 31st May

@Mr. Dee

rationalizations. I am not even going to try to counter it. Just look at the product and financial history of Apple vs MS. MS so far has completely blown it. They used to take pity on Apple and throw them a few crumbs. Now Apple has surpassed MS by a considerable margin. Ballmer must be going through a lot of chairs these days.

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RE: Acer: Microsoft hardware rules 'very troublesome'

CobraA1 31st May

"rationalizations."

Yup, that describes your posts perfectly.

"MS so far has completely blown it."

I take it you haven't tried Windows 7.

"Now Apple has surpassed MS by a considerable margin."

Largely because of mobile devices, from what I can tell. They're not looking to replace the PC, they're looking to replace the cell phone.

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What is your logic?

FADS_z 31st May

@Economister
expensive comparing to what? You want cheap stuff, you may select brand from china. btw, high quality doesn't mean big, heavy, or power hungry.

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The usual stuff

Economister 31st May

@FADS_z

More RAM, faster processor, more storage -> higher power consumption, bigger battery, larger, heavier, more expensive. It is not about "quality" vs "cheap". It is about the HW requirements to make the Windows "experience" acceptable. I do not see MS overcome those issues in one rushed version of Windows. The fact that they are trying to control things, makes me concerned.

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RE: Acer: Microsoft hardware rules 'very troublesome'

CobraA1 31st May

@Economister

"If the restrictions are in place to safeguard Windows license revenue . . ."

Setting up for a possible anti-Microsoft troll rant, eh?

"That will just hasten the irrelevance of Windows"

Irrelevance? A joke. 1.2 billion systems is not irrelevance.

And no, just because Apple reaps in a few profits from mobile devices does not mean Microsoft has become irrelevant.

"The may just make Windows on tablets too darn expensive, big, heavy and power hungry."

Windows 7 is faster and less power hungry than Vista and XP. I don't think Microsoft is going to want the negativity they got with Vista again.

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RE: Acer: Microsoft hardware rules 'very troublesome'

hoaxoner 1st Jun

@CobraA1
I think the general feeling is that there are huge warning signs. Microsoft makes a great large factor operating system, yes even Vista is not as bad as people say it is. The problem here lies in their mobile offerings. They seem to be going through the rigamarole in order to find a decent way to get their products on the smaller form factors. Be it through full windows tablets, windows mobile, windows phone, zune, whatever ran the kin, etc. And they seem to be waiting for overnight success. A big problem here is that every product is laden with expectations, and ms garners an emotional response, both good and bad. In the end, I'm just not sure they can make a good mobile software system that will instantly compete with android and apple and then they will become frustrated and scrap it. I am hopeful that windows 8 does turn out to be a good product, especially for laptop power efficiency.

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Acer is a joke

Gis Bun 31st May

Ever notice that they are the ones that complain about the simple things and not just this. they want the easy way out so they can develop their crap cheaper but sell it for troo high of a price.

"They?re really controlling the whole thing, the whole process ? all feel it?s very troublesome." - Errr. Who's developing the OS? THey can always switch everything to ChromeOS.

Even after this complaining, oh I'm sure they'll release something with it.

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That is true, acer is not complaining quality

FADS_z 31st May

@Gis Bun
It (like HTC to wp7) complains high requirement, which leads to high quality.

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RE: Acer: Microsoft hardware rules 'very troublesome'

hoaxoner 1st Jun

@FADS_z
Link about the htc thing. To my knowledge, they make fantastic devices.

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About Time

MichaelWells 31st May

I would guess that this will serve two purposes. First to assure that there is never a hardware debacle like was experienced with the Vista launch, and second to take a page out of Apple's playbook; have control over the hardware and software will ensure a more uniform user experience. I hope this does not come at the price of a higher price point for Windows units.

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the Tea Lady Updated - 1st Jun

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the Tea Lady Updated - 1st Jun

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MS forgot it's roots

Ron_007 31st May

and is returning to the central control world of IBM ("Big Blue") and Apple where they control the hardware and the OS.

For me, one of the keys to the PC, "Personal" Computer, is that it is (almost) completely under the control of the individual. We had the option of picking from various competitive component manufacturers to build our "PC". Granted, most users have (reasonably) defaulted those choices to the large computer vendors, but even they don't single source many of the parts even for the same model.

I too would really like to hear more details about these "troublesome" rules. Right now we are just tilting at windmills.

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RE: Acer: Microsoft hardware rules 'very troublesome'

josh92 31st May

Considering Vista was largely reviled, Acer was right then and that inclines me to think that they're probably right this time as well.

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A high level of control worked for Microsoft in the PC market in the 90s

WilErz 1st Jun

Microsoft used to place strict rules on PC vendors in the 90s as well, and it allowed them to conquer the PC market. At the beginning of the decade, there were still a number of viable competitors to Windows PCs. By the end, only Apple remained, and only just (with support from Microsoft). After intervention by competition authorities, PC vendors were given more freedom, but this doesn't seemed to have done much for their bottom lines.

Microsoft will of course remain less restrictive than Apple (who don't allow iOS or Mac OS to run on non-Apple hardware at all), and will probably be more restrictive than Google (who will probably be content to let manufacturers do as they like, provided the end users are using Google services). If a more controlled approach is good for end users, Microsoft tablets will become more popular, instead of languishing in the niche they've occupied for a decade now. If it isn't, they won't, and Android or iOS will win the market. Either way, it can only be good for end users.

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RE: Acer: Microsoft hardware rules 'very troublesome'

decryobliviots 1st Jun

I am betting Acer's complaints have to do with more hardware-based DRM garbage, and twinked functionality. They are more Microsoft's speed than consumer advocacy.

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Does anyone else find it funny...

Ternarybit 1st Jun

That Acer of all people complains about value for money and product quality?

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RE: Acer: Microsoft hardware rules 'very troublesome'

udonkey 1st Jun

the one reason why apple products do work some what better than windows is the strict hardware compliance one issue with vista and m.e issue was driver compatibility oem manufactures have a thin margin for profit and dont care about their customers basically there is no competition any more dell has bought out almost every p.c manufacture so if M.S can tight hardware compatibility then perhaps we as end users will have a better experience

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You can thank Apple for this.

MSFTWorshipper 2nd Jun

Tight vertical integration is the rule of the day. It's how you make high quality products with high margins that make mega-profits = CASH horde.

Screw Acer, MSFT doesn't need them.