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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes
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Android developer calls Amazon App Store "Rotten to the core"

By | August 2, 2011, 8:21am PDT

Summary: Android development company Shifty Jelly has pulled up Amazon on its App Store policy and called it ‘rotten to the core.’

Android development company Shifty Jelly has pulled up Amazon on its App Store policy and called it ‘rotten to the core.‘

The problem, is Amazon’s ’Free App Of The Day’ promotion. While Amazon publicly says that it pays developers 20% of the asking price of an app, even when they give it away free, Amazon pulls off deals where it pays developers nothing.

Shifty Jelly make a app called Pocket Casts which was offered via ’Free App Of The Day’ promotion and sold 101,491 (sales the previous days was 20) … amazing sales which generated then nothing.

What’s worse than that, the increased sales actually cost the company money:

To add insult to injury Pocket Casts relies on a server to parse podcast feeds (allowing instant updates on your phone), and all these new users forced us to buy more hardware just to meet demand. Hardware that we are going to have to support indefinitely at our own cost.

Shifty Jelly outlines a number of other issues they have with the Amazon App Store:

  • Lengthy review times of anywhere up to 2 weeks (I’ve lost count of the amount of emails from people asking why our Google Market app is newer)
  • Amazon gets to set the price of your app to whatever they want, without any input from you, or even the chance to reject their price
  • Amazon re-writes your description, and in ours they even made up things like ‘add up to 100 podcasts’. No idea where on earth they got that number from
  • Amazon don’t provide error reports like Google do making it hard to fix errors
  • They don’t yet support Google’s new multiple APK initiative
  • Amazon pays far later than Google does, and to date we haven’t received any cheques from them, even though we are listed as being ‘payed’
  • US Only
  • Much less real-time sales information than Google
  • Update: (and this one surprised us) you can’t remove apps from their store! You have to ask them for permission via an email. Every other store lets you remove apps from sale.

Seems like there are number of issues for Amazon to address here.

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Topics

Developer, Amazon.com Inc., Android Developer, Android Development, Android Development Company, Development Company, Application Development, Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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RE: Android developer calls Amazon App Store
anono 4th Aug
@Tim Acheson
Define "standard". Never heard of a complaint like this until now. Plus it's from a developer.
View in thread
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RE: Android developer calls Amazon App Store
Rama.NET 2nd Aug
That is the issue with Amazon AppStore. We also have found similar issue and can feel the pain of Shifty Jelly.
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RE: Android developer calls Amazon App Store
stevejg61 2nd Aug
boo hoo!!! amazon "sold" your app for free and you end up having to spend money to upgrade your hardware - what if they had not just given it away, but had sold it that many times - you'd have to upgrade the hardware too.
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dumbutt
danyowell 2nd Aug
@stevejg61 the point isnt that they had to upgrade, the point is that they had to upgrade to support users that had zero returns.
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RE: Android developer calls Amazon App Store
WebSiteManager 2nd Aug
@stevejg61
And you'd have revenue to offset the cost.
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RE: Android developer calls Amazon App Store
Pete "athynz" Athens 2nd Aug
@stevejg61 Perhaps you failed to comprehend what was written and made a snap judgement from that failure. Here's the gripe: The dev was told that Amazon would pay 20% of the asking price of the app EVEN if it was given away for free in a promotion (such as the free app a day promotion). And this dev who went from 20 sales to over 100,00 sales should have received 20% of those over 100,000 sales per Amazon's policy and DID NOT.

So let's do the math... say the app sells for a buck, the dev's cut would be $0.20 per sale. 100,000 sales equals $20,000 bucks that the developer did not get. You can't sit here and honestly tell me you would not call out Amazon for not fulfilling their end of the deal.

Now let's plug in the real figures. Pocket Casts (the app in questions) costs $2.70. (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dmobile-apps&field-keywords=Pocket+Casts&x=0&y=0) So 20% of that is $0.54. Multiply that by 101491 the actual amount Amazon SHOULD owe the developer per their agreement is $54,805.14... which could have and likely would have gone into upgrading their hardware.

Are you usually this much of a tool or is this some special day where your minders allowed you out of your helmet to drool on a keyboard and troll online forums? A little bit of research goes a very long way... you might want to try it sometime.
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RE: Android developer calls Amazon App Store
Rama.NET 2nd Aug
@athynz
+1
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Perhaps you failed to comprehend that Amazon emailed the developers ...
RationalGuy 2nd Aug
@athynz

... and told them the terms under which the Free App of the Day placement would be done. Perhaps you failed to comprehend that the developers agreed to a 0% revenue share for one day in exchange for 14 days on the Amazon App Store front page. Perhaps you failed to comprehend that the developers agreed to these terms with no plan on how to monetize on the free app customers and no plan on how to capitalize on the increased exposure.

But all that is somehow Amazon's fault?
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RE: Android developer calls Amazon App Store
Pete "athynz" Athens 2nd Aug
@Rational Guy I was going by this quote: While Amazon publicly says that it pays developers 20% of the asking price of an app, even when they give it away free in the article. Looks like I was wrong in how Amazon does their free app a day promotions. I've been wrong before. It happens. Guess I need to do my own research... thanks for the catch.

I followed the link to Shifty jelly's blog site (included in the article) and if that is true then Amazon sucks even worse than I thought as Shifty Jelly declined to be a part of this promotion and Amazon included them anyhow. And if the blog is correct it seems like Amazon pretty much takes ownership of every app within their app store in such a way as to make Apple's deals with devs for iOS look like Apple is giving control away... In short what Amazon is doing is screwing the devs far worse than Apple ever thought about... and some of you want to give Amazon a free pass over this?
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Read it again athynz
toddybottom 2nd Aug
@athynz
Shift Jelly did not decline. The partners had a debate and the end result of that debate was that Shift Jelly would participate in this promotion knowing full well that they would receive no direct cash from Amazon.

People are giving Amazon a free pass over this because they deserve to get a free pass over this. They highlighted, in bold, in their email, that Shift Jelly would get no cash back from this. Shift Jelly agreed to those conditions and asked to be a part of the promotion. Amazon then held up their end of the bargain. Shift Jelly didn't realize they couldn't handle the load and are now upset but none of this is Amazon's fault.

But don't take my word for it, actually read Shift Jelly's blog. Adrian included a link to it.
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RE: Android developer calls Amazon App Store
scubashnurpel 3rd Aug
@athynz I haven't read any of the actual Amazon agreement, but just the bullet list of shortcomings at the end of the article is enough to make me believe that Amazon has terrible business practices. Whether people are agreeing to those terms or not, the Amazon App Store is asking to fail with such a lack of integrity.
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There goes that comprehension problem again ...
RationalGuy 3rd Aug
@athynz

Shifty Jelly declined to be a part of this promotion

No, they chose to take part in the promotion with full knowledge of the 0% revenue share stipulation.
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RE: Android developer calls Amazon App Store
scubashnurpel Updated - 3rd Aug
@stevejg61 You are either mentally handicapped or inciting argument on purpose. Either shut your mouth or know what you are talking about. If you are mentally handicapped I am sorry for using such levels or sarcasm.
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RE: Android developer calls Amazon App Store
owlnet 2nd Aug
The developer should have done his research.
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Message has been deleted.
kenosha77a Updated - 4th Aug
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Hmm....an app developer writing apps for an open source OS
Joe_Raby 2nd Aug
....and they're looking to make money on every unit that should have been sold?

Stallman must be rolling over in his grave.

Besides that, now that people are aware of the app, I'd bet that there are going to be dozens of apps on the Android Marketplace that rip off the developers IP anyway.
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RE: Android developer calls Amazon App Store
jgm@... 2nd Aug
@Joe_Raby Stallman's not in a grave... he's living in his office refusing to use the WiFi chip in his laptop because the driver isn't open source and declining to use the web for "personal reasons".
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What a shame
danyowell 2nd Aug
I've been using the Pocket Casts app since the day it was free on Amazon and I absolutely love it. I found solice in the fact that Amazon claimed they payed the devs SOMETHING. What a shame that turned out to be false.

I'm becoming more and more disenfrachized with the amazon app store. While a free app a day is fun, the reviewers are crazy. The people ruin the experience. And the devs who are just trying to make a few bucks end up suffering for it.

I'm going to the google marketplace right now to purchase it again.
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That was the larger complaint.
Bruizer 3rd Aug
@danyowell

To the public, Amazon promotes to the world they give 20% of the asking price to the developer when it is a "free app" of the day. Behind the scenes, Amazon forces the developer to a 0% of the asking price to be a "free app" of the day. Amazon then puts a gag order to not allow the developer to change the public face of Amazon.

So Amazon is claiming to the world how nice they treat their developers by doing these free app giveaways all the while screwing the developers.
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Google propaganda
Tim Acheson 2nd Aug
This seems like fairly standard Google/Android propaganda, and perhaps it's even loaded with a subliminal slap in the face of Apple (the "core" reference).
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RE: Android developer calls Amazon App Store
anono 4th Aug
@Tim Acheson
Define "standard". Never heard of a complaint like this until now. Plus it's from a developer.
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After reading more on this...
snaconst 2nd Aug
... this is more Shifty Jelly whining about having to upgrade rather than Amazon doing anything bad.

Amazon's terms for the appstore is that Amazon sets the price, developers get 70% of that. If Amazon discounts the app, or offers it for free, the developers get 20% of asking price.

If Amazon offered the app for free without their knowledge or without option, then they would be entitled to the 20%, but that is not the case. Shifty Jelly was ASKED to be a part of this promotion, with the ability to opt in or out. In the email from Amazon, they were told that it was a 0% rev share and an opportunity for marketing. Shifty Jelly agreed to these terms, and saw a surge of users.

Bottom line is that Shifty Jelly knew what they were agreeing to, and knew it was intended for marketing to get their name out and get more app reviews. With 100,000 downloads, it seemed like the marketing worked.

If you agree to a free marketing promotion, don't whine because it worked.
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Adrian: can you comment on this post?
toddybottom 2nd Aug
If this is true, isn't it something that you should have investigated before posting your blog? It seems highly relevant, don't you think?
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RE: Android developer calls Amazon App Store
Pete "athynz" Athens 2nd Aug
@snaconst Again with the lack of reading comprehension... did you and the tool I replied to both fail remedial English? The deal is that Amazon will pay the developers 20% of the selling price of their app even if it's used in a promotion where the app is "sold" for free... go reread the article, read my reply to stevejg61, and this time make an attempt to comprehend what is written.
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I think there is only 1 person here who lacks reading comprehension
toddybottom 2nd Aug
@athynz
Did you even read snaconst's post before you went on your tirade? If you had and then bothered to go to Shifty Jelly's post (linked to in Adrian's blog) you would have seen that snaconst is 100% right. Here it is from Shifty Jelly themselves:
"We can see the counter argument here, that we agreed to Amazon?s terms, even if they were underhanded and secret, so we deserve everything we got."

You were EXTREMELY rude to 2 posters here and they were the ones who were right, not you. Think about that.
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RE: Android developer calls Amazon App Store
wulfgyr@... 2nd Aug
@athynz Actually you only read this article you did not read the original article by Shifty Jelly that is linked in this article. Had you done so you would know that ultimately Shifty Jelly did agree to forego the revenue from that one day as part of the agreement. You may want to go read that article now as Mr. Kingsley-Hughes article just highlights some points from that article but doesn't provide all the details. See? I was able to respond to you without any snarky "remedial English" or "Reading comprehension" comments.
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Yet another sensationalistic unresearched misleading blog
Dietrich T. Schmitz, *~* Your Linux Advocate 2nd Aug
Adi,
You are being a greedy hit monger and subscribing to the lowest denominator.

That's the only conclusion I can draw here and for your article on Android earlier today.

Lazy.
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RE: Android developer calls Amazon App Store
Digger_z 2nd Aug
I agree with snaconst and the others who have posted that Shifty Jelly is misrepresenting the situation. They even asked for clarification from Amazon that they would receive zero revenue if they agreed to the one day free app promotion.

After receiving confirmation that they would be paid zero, they still agreed to be part of the special promotion. They have nobody to blame but themselves.

Their other complaints about the store may be valid, but in no way are the terms of this free app promotion "underhanded and secret", as Shifty Jelly posted in their blog.
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RE: Android developer calls Amazon App Store
kabirasm 2nd Aug
Why don't they (developers) use cloud computing platforms (ec2?) for the elasticity? At least they dont have to buy hardware but scale up or down as they wish?
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RE: Android developer calls Amazon App Store
john-whorfin 2nd Aug
Sounds like the developer is upset that their app is getting no hits when they charge for it and actually thinks they would have made $50K if Amazon ran a "$2 app of the day" promo. Wishful thinking, or simple idiocy. If the app was worth $2, half of the 100,000 people who downloaded it would have told a friend and the app would have continued to sell. I imagine there are 99,000 people who download the free app every day and never spend a dime.

Follow the link to Shify Jelly's own blog and you can see that they new full well that they would not be paid for the single day of the promotion (Amazon emphasized this fact in BOLD text in the email they sent to Shifty Jelly), and were not forced to allow their product to be featured. They made a business choice, and now they are upset because they did not think far enough ahead to realize that when THEY gave away their app they would have to support it.

https://shiftyjelly.wordpress.com/2011/08/02/amazon-app-store-rotten-to-the-core/
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The author comes across sounding extremely petty
toddybottom 2nd Aug
@robbieharrison@...
My favorite part of his story:
"A heated debate broke out in our office about whether we should or not. I was firmly against, my business partner for. In the end we agreed that we had entered the world of Android development as an experiment, and it would seem silly not to add more data to the experiment we were conducting."

This is a huge public dig at his business partner. Talk about airing your dirty laundry. For the author to backstab his partner like that and then have the audacity to claim that all of this was secret and underhanded (after admitting that they asked Amazon for clarification, got that clarification, debated it heavily, and decided to go ahead with this experiment) makes me think that Shifty Jelly is being run by an unethical moron. I will be staying away from all their products, paid or otherwise.
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Will never use Amazon App store again
mkourj@... 2nd Aug
I had very bad experience as a customer (with Viewsonic G-Tablet): got into Amazon Appstore and their application tried to take control over multiple pre-installed apps, checking their DRM and since those came preinstalled (that is NOT from Amazon) - disabled them. Apparently, this problem exists from Amazon Appstore's Day-1 (March-2011?) and I had the trouble in late June.
Amazon's support was NOT supportive. I had to factory-reset and reload multiple apps. The tablet is not the same still, even after the factory reset.
P.S. and yes - I know what you say, but mine is NOT rooted (my kids use it as-is).
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RE: Android developer calls Amazon App Store
jamerican413 3rd Aug
@mkourj@...
Are you sure Amazon disabled your apps? I get the message that apps need to be updated and when I don't remember which app store I got it from, I tell them yes. If I didn't get the app from Amazon it will tell me that the version doesn't check and would I like to delete and replace with the update from Amazon. The option is always there to say no.
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RE: Android developer calls Amazon App Store
photonicsguy Updated - 3rd Aug
Is it just me? This has got to be the most poorly written story I've ever read on this site. "Amazon don't provide error reports..." Seriously? The lead is "Shifty Jelly has pulled up Amazon." What the hell does "pulled up" mean in this context? Going by the other comments, if Amazon's policy is in fact clear that you don't get paid on the free app give away, it looks like Adrian did zero homework on this and just took Shifty Jelly at their word. Hard to give any of this any credibility.

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