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Hardware 2.0

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Apple A4 is not a CPU, it's a 'system-on-a-chip'

By | January 29, 2010, 3:38pm PST

Details are starting to emerge about the chip powering Apple’s iPad - the A4. As it turns out, it’s not a CPU but a complete ‘system-on-a-chip.’

The A4 represents Apple’s entry into fabless semiconductors, and while it’s seems like interesting technology, most of it is based on ARM intellectual property. The A4 brings together a CPU (at this point it’s unclear how many cores the A4 has) and a GPU, along with other features such as memory controller.

Compared to the Samsung processor in the iPhone that chugs along at 600MHz, the A4 ticks at 1GHz, offering the iPad a fair performance boost. Not only is it fast, but it’s energy efficient, allowing the iPad to run for up to 10 hours.

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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Why does ZDNet ALWAYS devolve into a playground war...
Jeff Dickey 21st Feb 2010
...between MS *or* Apple?

Actually, guys, MS make some of the best Office software I've ever seen...
but it only runs on Mac OS X.
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it just show how closed apple has become
Linux Geek 29th Jan 2010
this is a real danger for innovation.
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Yet
Cylon Centurion Updated - 29th Jan 2010
I see no OSS company doing just that.

All we get is poor "Me too" software.
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Not quite
daengbo 29th Jan 2010
Take a look at the BitTorrent protocol and clients
on the software side. There are lots of truly
revolutionary ideas that have come out of the FOSS
camp (A lot of FOSS software comes out of research
universities, you know), but uptake for
revolutionary ideas is pretty small since people
prefer what's familiar. Heck, even FOSSies prefer
what's familiar.
core at the heart of it. But, Apple would be
better off in the long run using more open source
components, like the Linux kernel, and trying to
do less on their own.
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Why is that?
AllKnowingAllSeeing 29th Jan 2010
Why would they be better off doing less on their own, and using open source components?
gopen source though. They only have to maintain
the basic kernal, the rest, they use the same as
the BSDs and Linux. Of course they have their own
Window Manager and GUI.
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You're missing the big picture. Apple has no need of Linux
AllKnowingAllSeeing Updated - 29th Jan 2010
This is all about vertical intergration, Apple has absolutelly no need of Linux.
They appear to be doing quite well without it, reading their latest earnings report.

Right now, you can't get anything for this tablet unless it comes thru iTunes. They make alot of money via their 30%, more then any savings on using Linux, and they don't have to release or share one bit of code with anyone.

They really don't use much of any open source at this point, and it really is a non issue.

I believe you're viewing this from the angle of yet another opportunity for Linux that has been shut down, and you're not seeing the overall picture

MS has the lion's share of server, desktop, laptop, netbook installs, Apple at a distant second, Linux far behind Apple. Apple knows they're not going to take over the top spot in server, desktop, laptop, netbook (via MacBook Air) space, but they know they can use their massive place in entertainment media/App store to their advantage.

Linux offers them nothing they don't allready control.
servers, quite far from it. Of the very biggest,
ONLY MS uses Windows servers.

On open source used in Mac OSX, they use a ton
of open source, that is the same as that used
for the Linux and BSD platforms:

http://www.apple.com/opensource/

Actually, OSX literally would not be possible
without all the open source pieces. Apple knows
that.
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The handfull of "big companies" are small.
AllKnowingAllSeeing 30th Jan 2010
the companies you keep talking about are an extreamly small percentage of overall usage of servers, so that really doesn't enter into the equation at all. You forget about the millions apon millions of small, medium, and large businesses that use MS severs as the backbone of their infrastructure.

OSX literally would not be possible
without all the open source pieces. Apple knows that.


And so what? I'm sure alot of people understand that, but it doesn't mean anything because Apple owes open source nothing, they're on a roll right now. Their PC division isn't where they're getting the majority of money from, it's their consumer electronics division that's doing that (iPod, iPhone, App Store, iTunes), so open source doesn't help them out in anyway.

It's clear that the direction they're going is the best model for them. It's clear that open source is a non factor for Apple, seeing that using Linux and open source won't add a thing to their bottom line, infact, it may actually take away from it.
for the back-end because it is the best. Sure, a
lot of small companies that have no idea what they
are doing buy Windows servers that have very low
utilization, so what?

Open source is extremely important to Apple, it is
all through their products. Maybe some open source
people do not like the way Apple does it, but, it
is Apples life blood.
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Still doesn't answer why you think it would be beter
AllKnowingAllSeeing 31st Jan 2010
for Apple to go open source and Linux.

Keeping it closed keeps the money pouring in thru iTunes and the App store.
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Apple wants proprietary and BSD allows them to do that. Switching to GPL would force them to make the proprietary parts non-proprietary.

Apple survives on proprietary HW and Software. True they are taking advantage of open source software but the package as a whole (HW & SW) is anything but.
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@DonnieBoy: The number of Linux internet hosters ...
de-void-21165590650301806002836337787023 1st Feb 2010
Are utterly dwarfed by the number of other businesses in the world, almost all of which use Windows Servers for file-sharing, printer-sharing, databases, email servers, software distribution, etc., and Windows on the desktop.

While *N*X may well own the title for hosting the most websites, the VAST majority of websites hosted today are small, inconsequential, rarely visited and pointless.

Of course, plenty of HUGE websites are hosted successfully on *N*X, but a number of HUGE websites are also very successfully hosted on Windows. And in this space, y'know what? The cost of Windows licensing vs. Linux's $ cost is a rounding error on the company's balance sheets.
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obfuscation
Dr. John 1st Feb 2010
It matters not what the "biggest" use. What matters to the statement made is total servers using a particular NOS, and Windows has owned that market for about five years now. If the biggest server farms are using something other than Windows, and Windows still rules the total, it just reinforces the point of the popularity of Windows Server among the masses. The average power user can set up and run a Windows Server system. Only the geekiest of the geeky can run Unix/Linux. (yes, there are intentional generalities included in the above statement)
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@de-void & Dr.John
LazLong 1st Feb 2010
Guess we all need to root for our particular favorite team.
And would even hazard a guess (as there is no empirical evidence) that as a particular "product" that MS may have the most recuring "sales" or "licenses" (which is only added too by all their server products, WHS, SMB, WSUS etc), for any individual company.

But if you then consider all the others. Commercial/enterprise; Red hat, Novel/Suse, Oracle/Sun, IBM etc. In total MS might even surpass them sometimes but not by that much.

Then consider all the rest, Google, Akami, Yahoo, hosting companies, various other specialised or smaller concerns, whether or not they use Unix, BSD, Linux or something else.

Again I would hazard a guess that in total, as an "individual company" MS could possibly be in the majority with 25~40% of total sales/installations.

But in the larger world it is not only MS, & Linux if not all *nix has more server installations.
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OS X is a FreeBSD variant.

OS X is also available open source as Darwin, you want a Unix OS for
free, just download courtesy of Apple.

What OS X offers is a user interface layer and some applications, all
designed to make the operating system usable by real world users,
rather than tinkering IT folks.

Otherwise it's open source all the way.

Apple promotes open source, depends on open source, and promotes
the creation of open standards.

Ask MS for a command line version of Windows for free cause you
want to run a server - watch them laugh at you.

The amount of disinformation on blogs about Apple being proprietary
and therefore evil is just insane.

Nowhere does my Mac lock me into anything, I use it cause I am fairly
stingy about spending on software, I like my computer to work
without shelling out for extra crap.

I signed up for the iTunes store the other day, I have only been using
Macs since 1985, but I got a free download so I signed up. I probably
won't spend money there - and I will not be in any way prevented
from using my computer or doing anything I might want to do.

I have downloaded software from Apple before, and will do so again
this week probably, but that will not even take me near the iTunes
store.

I am developing websites at the moment on my Mac, and these will
follow the Apple way, which means I will be able to deploy them on
either OS X or Linux with nothing other than a normal Linux server, no
proprietary stuff.

I had the choice of doing this the Apple way or the MS way, MS meant
proprietary server technology, Apple meant freedom.
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Money
mheartwood 29th Jan 2010
Programmers cost money. Apple dropped OS-9 because it cost too much to maintain the core of that code. To add everything they wanted, would have required them to build a software department roughly the size of Microsoft's Windows department.

OS-X is built around FreeBSD and MACH, two BSD-derived kernels. As such, the code was readily available and Apple only had to do minimal work bringing the bits and pieces they wanted from each together. This dramatically reduced the number of programmers they needed and allowed them to spend more time and money concentrating on the hardware.

Even now, Apple takes appropriately licensed code, modifies it to suit their needs, and then packages it and sells it. But don't ever expect them to use anything with a GPL, Eclipse, Apache, or Mozilla license. They prefer BSD, MIT, and Artistic licenses which allow them to use the code anyway they want with out needing to publish their modifications or return anything back to the community which created them.

By keeping things open source, they reduce their overhead greatly.
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they own a CPU design company, they have competent programmers, and they can use them to keep Linux out.

This isn't about open source and standards, this is about Apple funneling money thru the App store.
be possible without all of the open source code,
from the kernel to the webkit rendering engine, to
the compiler to OpenSSH, etc.
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Who Cares?
archangel9999 1st Feb 2010
You guys have turned this topic about Apple's A4 chip into an Apple should chuck OSX and run straight Linux or which OS runs on more servers (also immaterial)

Is it possible for the fanboys to curb their zeal and stick to the thread topic??!!!
Obviously, they prefer the other licenses you
mention. But, things like the compiler (gcc), is
GPL, and that is really not a problem for Apple.
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Apple looking for GCD support.
Windows 7 man Updated - 30th Jan 2010
I think the gcc compiler and making the source for Grand Central open to everyone under it's Apache licensing is ultimately Apple looking out for Apple and hoping to gain support from the linux community for blocks as part of the C programming language and support for GCD.

They know Micrsoft is not using and unlikely to use these technologies and is a main part of opening up such major portions of it's system. They don't see Linux as a competitor to their market, but at the same time I think they are not helping their chances in the enterprise since linux systems are aimed at that market.
But then Apple also may be counting on the halo effect of what consumers (employees) are using affecting the choice companies make, often seen as one of windows main strengths due to the wide adoption of XP, for example, and business wanting systems their employees alread know. Huge cost savings in training and competance and having advanced users more readily available on staff.

I agree, Apple is very smart for using open source to it's advantage, something Microsoft is finding out more and more however. The codeplex "incubator" is becoming a good place for open source projects.
MS is embracing open source BI as well...at the other end of the software spectrum.
I thought better of the former name. Not that Windows 7 does not rock, it does indeed.
But I don't feel the name reflected well, just in taste, to those who support Windows as a professional.
I have found after being on this site a short time that Windows users tend to use multiple technologies, both hardware and software and I respect that. I too support multiple technologies.
I have a Macbook and an itouch, as I've mentioned in other posts. I also have 2 Windows 7 machines and an old toshiba laptop with XP. i have not dabbled with VMWare or Virtual PC.
I would like to get a cheap machine to run Windows Server 2008 and to install a few different distros of Linux either on one of the Windows 7 machines or the Macbook.
I hope I don't seem to favor one platform over another. I do favor making sure anyone that posts to me in an ugly manner accusing me of being a Windows apologist (don't know what there is to apologize for to begin with even if I used Windows exclusively) and trying to correct them where they are wrong about me and if possible where they may be wrong about things related to a given company or technology.
thanks.
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Um, It would be a major problem.
DevGuy_z 1st Feb 2010
As long as they don't have include gpl source into their stuff they can release monolithic GPL all they want.

That doesn't work if they have to integrate kernel code that is GPL'ed.

If Apple switched to Linux, OSX would available to all (under GPL) and Apple does-not-want-that.

Apple, not Microsoft is the most proprietary company out there. It isn't even legal to install OSX on non-apple hardware.
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they could get away with using it. If it is for sale, it should be installable on compatible hardware. If I built a PC using the same components as Apple, which are for sale, I could load the O/S.

Why should they have the right to say, I can't use something I paid for. It isn't like I hacked or modified anything. The only way they could get away with it is, they are just leasing me the hardware or the software. If I built the hardware, they aren't leasing it to me. If I bought the Software, they aren't leasing it to me. If they want to put those restrictions on something, then they are not selling it to you, they are letting you use those products for a price.

Look at the way they market it. The computer is for sale, the O/S is for Sale. What part of that doesn't Apple understand?
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TTM..
giz02 1st Feb 2010
Why did they initially use ARM? Well initially TTM (Time to Market) with Iphone/Ipod...

Why did they use Arm this time? Well because they wanted 140,000 apps available on launch. Using a new architecture would require apps to be either A) recompiled for the new architecture or B) Be emulated on the iPad. rule of thumb for emulation is 4x the processing power of the original platform (increased power consumption, complexity).

Using ARM was a no brainer.
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Why downgrade to Linux?
Bruizer 30th Jan 2010
Just wondering?
more control by rolling their own for now, but, at
some point they will not be able to justify their
own internal development.

How many other large companies use the Darwin
kernel? How many use Linux?
But again, they've been wildly successful "rolling their own" as the iphone/touch have shown, and the rise in Macbook marketshare cannot be left out of the equasion here.
It's a double edged sword so to speak, more companies may be using the linux kernel over Darwin, but many more home users are using Darwin over the linux kernel.
Over time the consumer market (in other words, businesses employees) can control what businesses decide to use due to having ready made experts on staff. If they have to train a majority of their employees to use Linux, they may see significant cost savings by going with an OS that employees already know and use regularly. That also gives them ready made system experts all through the enterprise, which has helped to keep the Microsoft dominance going. I'm sure many would say it's the "monopoly" but inside of that explanation lies the idea that a company will use what their employees already know. As marketshare changes over time, Apple may pick up business customers simply for this same reason.
The only downside to the linux kernel is there are no surprises and it's really hard to come up with a competitive advantage with your system. It's based on the idea that all companies use the same software, standards and tools which does not lend itself to further innovation as there would be nothing pushing technologists to do so. Does that make any sense?
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If they start to train the employees in Linux, they employees could get free O/S to use at home, thus cutting their home use costs out. They would be more likely to use it more and learn it better, thus cutting the cost at work. They would be training at home and not having to be trained at work. We could cut the middle man out of the equation.
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I would have to believe that many linux shops have converts just from using Linux every day and it's probably a growing number.
I don't believe it's reached critical mass however and is not heavily influencing the end user market in general more than by an increasing amount of word of mouth growth.

Linux based OS vendors need to find a way to market their systems. That's the catch of having a free product, there is not a lot of ways to monetize and market the product.
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BSD has a great track record.
DevGuy_z 1st Feb 2010
And in the security arena some variants are considered more secure than Linux.

But as I've pointed out in other posts, the licensing is the main problem not technical superiority. They can release GCC because they don't need to add proprietary code. But if they have to compile in GPL'd code then all of it comes under the GPL license.

Apple will stay with BSD licensing. Apple is all about proprietary. They are not opposed to taking advantage of free stuff but they have the money and resources to stay proprietary.
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Darwin isn't a kernel...
WarhavenSC 1st Feb 2010
OS X uses the Mach kernel. Darwin is a derivative of FreeBSD, built on top of the Mach kernel.
Is Not Darwin the Free low level implimentation of the OS, without the higher level & proprietary things like Coco, Carbon & Aqua etc.

Often wondered why, why not, someone has not offered OpenDarwin With KDE, Gnome, etc
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Yup
WarhavenSC 1st Feb 2010
Darwin is the *nix foundation on which OS X is built on, which is derived from FreeBSD (the operating system). Darwin uses the Mach kernel. Kernel != operating system.

And Darwin is available for download, and with KDE, Gnome, X, etc. environments available for it as well.

Just search Google for Darwin downloads and/or Darwin & KDE/Gnome/whatever.
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Industry standard for calculators.
CobraA1 30th Jan 2010
Why yes, it's the industry standard for devices like set top boxes, home routers, and calculators. Devices that don't need a lot of CPU power.

But not the "industry standard" if you want to make something powerful, like a PC.

I'm willing to bet a 1 GHz Intel chip will be more powerful than a 1 GHz ARM chip - simply because it can do more per clock cycle.
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I'll take that bet
DeusExMachina Updated - 1st Feb 2010
"I'm willing to bet a 1 GHz Intel chip will be more powerful than a 1
GHz
ARM chip - simply because it can do more per clock cycle."

Hmm, funny, Intel made ARM chips.

More importantly, it is ENTIRELY not true that the Atom does more per
clock cycle than the A9. While the Atom can execute two instructions
per cycle, this has little relevance. First, we are talking about CISC.
Although only a small number of Atom instructions need to be
transcoded into multiple micro-ops, the number is not insignificant.
More importantly, the actual performance of the device has much
more to do with the actual instruction set. Empirically, there is just no
support for the claim that Atom is faster. In fact, independent
benchmarks have shown the A9 running at 500MHz neck and neck
with the 1.6 GHz Atom. As ARM Holdings have already scaled the ARM
to 2 GHz, I really see little support for the notion that Atom is factor.
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Not independent
archangel9999 1st Feb 2010
That wasn't an "independent benchmark" - what's been quoted and requoted by those seeking to boost ARM (new gen) vs. Atom (not new gen) was a private benchmark conducted by ARM

This matters very little - this segment of the market is changing day by day - the Tegra, Snapdragon, next gen Atom, etc.
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Independence day
DeusExMachina 3rd Feb 2010
Why do you assume you know what I am writing about.
First, I was not discussing ARM holdings benchmarks (although they
are accurate.)
Second, even Intel's own benchmark tests showed the Atom only
about 4-6.5 times faster than a 400MHz single core ARM11. So by
Intel's own tests, the Cortex-A8 and A9 cores, which are twice as fast
as ARM11, are 1.25-2x as fast as Atom at the same clock rate. Taking
into account the SIMD capabilities of the ARM chips and their
advantage increases even further.
By Intel's own numbers, a quad core Cortex-A9 at 800MHz would give
you 2.5-4x the performance of a single core Atom at 1.6GHz while
still using less power. The only advantage gained from the Atom, and
Intel's only real selling point is x86 compatibility, i.e. Windows.
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Your math is rather "fuzzy"
xuniL_z 6th Feb 2010
Hey, after those whopping 3 entries you dug up on a nic named after a common latin phrase, on a different site, I assume you are not this lacking in math and perhaps trying to be deceitful with numbers?

Now I'm not positive, but just going by your statement and logic, it's worth taking another look.

Second, even Intel's own benchmark tests showed the Atom only
about 4-6.5 times faster than a 400MHz single core ARM11. So by
Intel's own tests, the Cortex-A8 and A9 cores, which are twice as fast
as ARM11, are 1.25-2x as fast as Atom at the same clock rate.

You are saying the Atom is *only* 4 to 6.5 times faster, which is quite the margin is it not?
Then you claim that by doubling the speed of the A9 core, it somehow, based on intel's own benchmarks of 4 - 6.5 times faster, becomes more than six times faster than original?
If the Atom is 4 times faster, at minimum, and the A9 doubles it's speed, then the Atom is still 2 times faster at minimum. That is 100% faster in other words.

Intel's only real selling point is x86 compatibility, i.e. Windows.

That's their *only* selling point eh? Considering that Linux also uses x86, I guess you stumbled right out of the gate. Or do you agree that the Open source camp is claiming much too large of a stake in netbooks?

Besides you are comparing Apples to sports cars anyway. The tablet is another totally locked down device that tries to channel everything through it's own properties as much as possible, with the desire to control all content delivery, Apple can essentially provide service that is all many people want without passing through any Google properties.
Sure people can still use Google search on the itouch/big itouch(AKA ipad) but the idea is to provide all the content they need for most occasions.
The fact that mutli-tasking and full blown Windows 7 runs great on netbooks or Minis is what makes it apples to sports cars. I truely don't mind opening the lid to a 2lb device to reveal an 11.6" screen, 92% full size keyboard with great touch keys running full Windows 7 home premium, multi-tasking and running all of the apps, including any that can run on the ipad (Apple has to leverage Windows for iBooks and itunes to be successful in attracting users. They want them to use Apple products ultimately to access them, but they have nowhere near the leverage to make that happen in a substantial way at this time. Esp the nanos, which only sold the volume they have because of itunes for Windows. )
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Pay attention
DeusExMachina Updated - 6th Feb 2010
"You are saying the Atom is *only* 4 to 6.5 times faster, which is quite
the margin is it not? "

Sigh. I am saying that the 1.6GHz atom is 4 times faster that the
400MHz ARM11.
From there, the A9 core, at 800MHz is twice as fast as the ARM11. It is
thus twice as an Atom, pay attention now, AT THE SAME CLOCK RATE.
Therefore, an 800MHz A9 would be up to twice as fast as an 800MHZ
Atom.
From there, it is a matter of simple logic that a quad-core A9 at
800MHz will give up to 4 times the performance of the 1.6GHz Atom.

Perhaps before jumping up to type, you should try to actually read
what you are responding to.

"That's their *only* selling point eh? Considering that Linux also uses
x86, I guess you stumbled right out of the gate. Or do you agree that
the Open source camp is claiming much too large of a stake in
netbooks? "

Again, you fail the simple logic test. I.e., you are incapable of it.
Windows and Linux BOTH run on the Atom, of those two, ONLY Linux
runs on the ARM. Windows does not. Thus, the selling point of the
Atom OVER the ARM is that IT can run Windows, and the ARM can not.

Duh.

The rest is just a silly NBM rant.
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Irrelevant.
Windows 7 man Updated - 8th Feb 2010
Sigh. I am saying that the 1.6GHz atom is 4 times faster that the
400MHz ARM11.
From there, the A9 core, at 800MHz is twice as fast as the ARM11. It is
thus twice as an Atom, pay attention now, AT THE SAME CLOCK RATE.
Therefore, an 800MHz A9 would be up to twice as fast as an 800MHZ
Atom
Perhaps before jumping up to type, you should try to actually read
what you are responding to.

Perhaps before creating hypotheticals for no more reason than to try and make your side look better, you should understand what relevance means.
The chip is still 100% slower than the Atom no matter how you slice it.
The clock speed portion is idiotic because intell was not talking about an 800Mhz cpu.
Duh.
In other words, as I said, listen closely, the intel chip is still seriously faster and are you saying the evolution of the atom chip is done.



"That's their *only* selling point eh? Considering that Linux also uses
x86, I guess you stumbled right out of the gate. Or do you agree that
the Open source camp is claiming much too large of a stake in
netbooks? "

Again, you fail the simple logic test. I.e., you are incapable of it.
Windows and Linux BOTH run on the Atom, of those two, ONLY Linux
runs on the ARM. Windows does not. Thus, the selling point of the
Atom OVER the ARM is that IT can run Windows, and the ARM can not.

Duh.

The rest is just a silly NBM rant.

Please send me a link to the number of Linux netbooks going out with ARM processors...k?
Then we can see whether they Linux + Apple and not just Apple, ARM market can contend with Microsoft. You see, you phrased it wrong, or you changed the point of the topic to fit your new argument. hmmmm, wonder which it was.

Dar.

Yes, anything you can't respond to tends to be NBM whatever.

First of all, I'm not an "NBMer" whatsoever, owning 2 Apple products and have owned others in the past. I think anyone that is totally ABM, such as yourself, thereby reducing your credibility as a non biased objective source of information to zero, automatically thinks anyone who doesn't agree with them and conform to their way of thinking is automatically an "NBMer".
That logic sir, is borderline schizophrenic.
I am glad to not have my heart and/or any of my emotional being or self worth tied to such a matter. I almost feel sorry for you and all others who live with that logic.

End of story.
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ADHD
DeusExMachina Updated - 10th Feb 2010
"Perhaps before opening your smelly mouth, you should understand
what relevance means."

I can brush my teeth. You can't change being dumb. But nice job
bringing the conversation down to an even lower intellectual level than
it was before.

"The chip is still 100% slower than the Atom no matter how you slice
it."

And thanks for showing how totally ignorant you are of processor
architectures. First, raw clock speed has NOTHING to do with relative
speeds, it just indicates what frequency the clock circuit is firing off
square waves.
But funny you should spout off with the next line:
"The clock speed portion is idiotic because intell was not talking about
an 800Mhz cpu."

Intell [sic] wasn't "talking about" anything. And I was not talking about
an 800MHz chip either, I was talking about a 1GHz Apple A4 and the
various speeds of the Cortex A9. The 800MHz was for ease of math in
calculating the upscale. And 800MHz A9 would be over 2 times faster
than a 1.6GHz atom. Faster A9s would be, well, faster still.

"In other words, as I said, listen closely, the intel chip is still seriously
faster and are you saying the evolution of the atom chip is done."

And again, no it is not. Please provide benchmarks to backup this
statement, as, as already shown, this is completely not true. The Atom
is considerably slower. Period. Atom can evolve all they want. The x86
architecture will continue to be a boat anchor holding the chip back
(in terms of speed, not market.) And this is not even taking into
account the fact that the A9 architecture can easily run at 3GHz. Per
core.

"Please send me a link to the number of Linux netbooks going out
with ARM processors...k?"

I would have thought that even you wold realize that such a link
would serve no logical point, but apparently you never actually took a
course in logic. Both the chips and the market segment (netbooks) are
new, so such market data is irrelevant. That said, market projections
are another matter,. From "Information Network":

"Analyst Robert Castellano from The Information Network believes
future netbooks based on the upcoming ARM Cortex-A9 architecture
and running Linux could create a market for netbooks at price points
Intel and Microsoft simply won't be able to match. Not only would the
multicore A9 be cheaper than a 2012 Atom (at least, according to
Castellano), the assumed ubiquitousness of cloud computing would
supposedly eliminate (or almost eliminate) the need for local storage."

Besides which, your question just highlights your ignorance. To wit:

"Then we can see whether they Linux + Apple and not just Apple, ARM
market can contend with Microsoft. You see, you phrased it wrong, or
you changed the point of the topic to fit your new argument.
hmmmm, wonder which it was."

Talk about wrong phrasing. You do realize that MS already DOES run
an OS on ARM architecture, right? The emergent market for ultracheap
(sub $150) WinCE netbooks is just ramping up, and the vast majority
of these machines run WinCE from Microsoft.
You were saying?

"Yes, anything you can't respond to tends to be NBM whatever."

Please point out what it was that I did not respond to. I replied to
EVERY single pseudo-point you made.

"I think anyone that is totally ABM, such as yourself, thereby reducing
your credibility as a non biased objective source of information to
zero, automatically thinks anyone who doesn't agree with them and
conform to their way of thinking is automatically an "NBMer"."

OK, fist, nice grammar. Ramble on incoherently much? Second, why do
you assume I am ABM? Although I do NOT like the company, or their
business practices, I own and use and number of MS products, and am
MCSE certified.
Assumptions are the killer, huh. BTW, FAIL.

"That logic sir, is borderline schizophrenic."

Indeed.

"End of story."

One can only hope... .

(To be continued, I'm sure.)
0 Votes
+ -
Why? (nt)
People 1st Feb 2010
.
0 Votes
+ -
just another me too product from Apple
CrashPad Updated - 1st Feb 2010
Nvidia Integra anyone??? Been around for what 3 years now. My God people this company copies quicker than Xerox!
0 Votes
+ -
You know nothing about the A4
People 1st Feb 2010
Yet you claim they copied?
0 Votes
+ -
BS.
People 1st Feb 2010
You wouldn't know innovation if it slapped you in the face.
0 Votes
+ -
How powerful Apple has become
kisap 2nd Feb 2010
Wow, I had the notion that Apple has impact on many things, but I could
not imagine that Apple is this powerful: it can stop innovation in the
whole world!
0 Votes
+ -
Innovation?
Jkirk3279 5th Feb 2010
If you want innovation, go invent your own Linux based
slate.

Don't expect others to make stuff you can hack, and
don't whine when they make something you can't.
Why? Everybody else is free to design competitive products which are completely open.
0 Votes
+ -
...between MS *or* Apple?

Actually, guys, MS make some of the best Office software I've ever seen...
but it only runs on Mac OS X.

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