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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes
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Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts

By | August 22, 2011, 7:48am PDT

Summary: Apple shrinks the Galaxy S to the size of an iPhone 3G in documents submitted to European courts.

Further allegations are circulating that Apple has submitted more altered images to European courts in its case against Samsung. Previously it was German courts, now it’s the Netherlands, and this time the image in the form of a Galaxy S handset that has been reduced to the size of an iPhone.

These claims come via the Dutch site Webwereld.

Here’s the image in question, with an unaltered Samsung Galaxy S added on the right for scale:

The Galaxy S measures 122.4 x 64.2mm while the iPhone 3G is 115.5 x 62.1 mm, or some 6% smaller. However, in the photo submitted to the The Hague the two devices appear to be identically sized. This is serious stuff, because Apple is trying to get the EU to ban sales of the Galaxy S across all of the countries.

So Apple is altering images to make competitor’s products … I wonder why?

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Allegation, Apple Inc., Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
NZJester Updated - 16th Sep
I must also submit the PADDs used in Star Trek as an example of something that looks just like the iPad. In an interview Star Trek production artist Doug Drexler said that to him, the iPad is eerily similar to the PADDs used in Star Trek. You can see a video of two iPad like devices on youtube at /watch?v=JQ8pQVDyaLo from the movie 2001 or example of PADD here /watch?v=QyEYufFVUuI&NR=1.
View in thread
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Just checked my Driver's License
Dietrich T. Schmitz * Your Linux Advocate 22nd Aug
I can confirm, I wasn't born yesterday.

C'mon Apple.
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
TardHugger@... 22nd Aug
@Dietrich T. Schmitz * Your Linux Advocate Really I thought you were that old man baby from Mork and Mindy....
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Message has been deleted.
DeRSSS Updated - 22nd Aug
  • Flagged
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
Samic 22nd Aug
@DeRSSS

That theory has been disproved for quite awhile.
The original Samsung marketing material on the said image only feature TouchWiz home screen with a home screen widget, which drastically different than the iPhone's home screen. So Apple did purposely doctored the home screen to make Galaxy looks like iPhone UI.

And for the record, Apple also did the same thing with Galaxy Tab default home screen picture in the court document as well.
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
spark555 22nd Aug
@DeRSSS

"Apple used Samsung's own marketing promo images from the time before Samsung updated SGT's design after iPad 2 announcement"

I would like to see ANY documentation that supports this claim.

It sure seems astonishingly surprising that Samsung would have doctored up their images to make an exact size match, with a non-home-screen menu showing so that Apple could borrow it and fake up a case.

What evidence do you have that this happened?
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
Badgered 22nd Aug
@DeRSSS

One wonders why Apple would resort to this strategy if they didn't feel it would make or break their case. Why bother if it has no bearing on the outcome?
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
Feds Against Guns 22nd Aug
@Samic apple didn't invent that style of home screen, Nokia did, in fact Nokia released a functionally identical phone that looked verry similar, months before the first iPhone
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
DeRSSS Updated - 22nd Aug
@Samic: Samsung itself inserted the screen with icons in Galaxy prototype:

http://i2.phonearena.com/images/reviews/92743-thumb/Samsung-Galaxy-Tab-10.1-Preview-Design-013.jpg

Somehow (due to crazy censorship?) my initial post was erased, so I post it here:

Apple just scaled up iPhone image to the size of Galaxy to prove the point to the court. Obviously, if things are topologically similar, it make sense to look at them scaled equally.

And, previous "doctored" picture of SGT was not "doctored" either: Apple drags the same Samsung's own Galaxy image from lawsuit to lawsuit since February/March. It was before Samsung updated SGT design to match iPad 2.

Considering that Galaxy and iPhone differ in size insignificantly, depicting these devices with proportional to their actual sizes makes no sense. Especially, since the lawsuits are huge papers, they do not consist of only these couple of pictures. Additionally, Apple fights with phone device which sold over 10 million units worldwide, so it is ridiculous to imply Apple's move to scale up iPhone picture for easier topological comparison of design to Galaxy was an attempt to fool anyone.

In tablet comparison, Apple used picture of prototype, not the result device (no "Samsung" on it on any part, the "metallic" borders are thicker) so there is no way how a judge could be "fooled" by any pictures.

None Samsung's photos were touched.
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
Xennex 25th Aug
@DeRSSS

perhaps Apple 'mistakenly' forgot to add some subtext under the images saying that 'images are modified to facilitate home screen comparison. Device sizes may have been distorted.' so to give them some wiggle room.. As it is whoever is creating those documents submitted to the courts are just putting Apple in a position where they look REALLY bad and the case may just get thrown out on technicality.
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
non-biased Updated - 30th Aug
@spark555 I find it funny that you are demanding evidence that Apple is using Samsung's own marketing material yet do not demand any evidence to back up the claim that Apple doctored the photos.
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What shape is it?
doctordawg 23rd Aug
@Dietrich T. Schmitz * Your Linux Advocate

Is your driver's license rectangular with rounded corners? Has pictures and words on it? It could be violating Apple's iPhone design elements.
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
Hallowed are the Ori 23rd Aug
@doctordawg

Don't you mean the "iLicense"?
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They're suing on design elements...
olePigeon 22nd Aug
They're suing on design elements and are obviously scaling the image so you can see a visually 1:1 comparison.
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
Theli 22nd Aug
@olePigeon
Scaling one phone down more than the other does not constitute a 1:1 comparison. The Samsung phone is in reality noticeably bigger than the iPhone.
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"Bigger" is not a design element [nt]
RationalGuy 22nd Aug
@Theli
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
Rick_Kl 22nd Aug
@Theli Tha actual size of the phone is not the issue here, the design and UI are the items in question.
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
Peter Perry 22nd Aug
@Theli and thinner!
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Neither Does Square!
Peter Perry 22nd Aug
@RationalGuy
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
spark555 22nd Aug
@Theli If the UI is in question, then once again it's an apples/oranges comparison since it's showing the iPhone's main menu screen against an image which is NOT the Android home screen.

What's next? Put custom wallpaper on the device to make it look more similar?
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Hence the "visually" part...
olePigeon 22nd Aug
Hence the "visually" part. Looking at the two they look nearly identical, even if the Samsung is a little bigger. That is the point Apple was making. It is easier to see the similarities when the two phones are the same size.
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So where do the "acceptable" changes end?
toddybottom Updated - 22nd Aug
@olepigeon:
So it is acceptable to change the size of the competing product to make it look more like yours.

It is acceptable to change the ratio of the competing product to make it look more like yours.

It is acceptable to use something other than the home screen of the competing product to make it look more like yours.

It is acceptable to remove the logo of the manufacturer in order to make it look more like yours.

Eventually, it will be acceptable to simply copy and paste an image of the iPhone and just say that it is the Samsung.

At least that is how things appear.
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Bigger is not a design element? Thats WRONG.
Cayble 22nd Aug
@RationalGuy

What would make you ever say that bigger isn't a design element?? What sparks that kind of wrong headed thinking. First off, if bigger isn't a design element then by default neither is smaller a design element. In other words size isn't a design element for a smartphone.

And thats just plain nonsense.

Do you actually think the size of a smartphone plays no significant part in the design of a smartphone? Thats just silly. The key factor in the convenience of the modern smartphone is the size of the phone. It starts with the mundanely obvious; if the phone is way too big it will not fit in your pocket properly, it will be clunky and most probably too heavy to make carrying it unobtrusive. If the phone is too small, nit will likely feel cramped and awkward trying to operate it and to access its functions, not to mention it will overly restrict screen size, which is far from a bonus to most people.

In the final analysis the actual sizing of a smartphone is a fundamental design element that requires a significant amount of consideration that will allow for a balance of "not too big, not too small" that will allow for all the hoped for components to be included in the phone in a package thats not too clunky and doesn't weigh like a brick in someones pocket or purse.

Jeez..."Bigger" is not a design element. I hope you were kidding.
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
Nevellin 22nd Aug
@ToddyBottom I couldnt say better.
All of this is nonsense. If a competitor with quality appears, you just need to flush him out using all possible ways, including editing images??? This is ridiculous. I really cant believe Apple is doing this.
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
danbi 22nd Aug
@sparc555

How different screen images are when the devices are switched off, like when you purchase them in the shop?

The whole point is to not have Samsung devices that have copied the design of the iPhone/iPad -- because the customer is misled that they are buying the other thing.
Many people cannot say what is inside. Most don't even care if it is iOS or Android. But it looks like the device that Apple advertises and so many people are happy with -- is it good to buy it, only to discover it is a fake made by Samsung?
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Think of it this way:
jscott69 22nd Aug
@Theli ... if an AVERAGE PERSON (not a techie, just a regular Joe or Jane ... think about your GF/wife's mom) were to see two people standing near each other, one using an iPhone and the other using the Galaxy S, would that average person _reasonably_ mistake the Galaxy S for an iPhone?

That's the point of the suit, not "mine's 6.9mm bigger than yours!"

Fortunately, judge's understand the intent of the patent laws and what matters as evidence or not ... particularly when they're provided with real versions of each product to see, use and feel for themselves.

While one may not like that Apple is taking the matter to court, Apple nevertheless has legal patents (whether issued for the right reasons or not) and therefore has the right to defend and protect them. And it's honestly hard to argue that the two phones don't have a remarkably similar appearance, regardless of the slight difference in size and whether one is seen on its home screen all the time or not (because logically, neither is operated on its home screen all the time, and anyone from a distance wouldn't necessarily know whether the user of the device was on the home screen or not).

Whether we like it or not, this is a legal matter that will be decided upon by a judge who is familiar with what's germane to the case and what's not, as well as the intricacies and intent of the laws involved.
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With screens turned off?
spdragoo@... 23rd Aug
@danbi

Any computer/smartphone/electronic device is pretty much useless while it's turned off. As for similarity, Mac = Dell = Toshiba = HP = Gateway = eMachines in general design when they're turned off, aside from the rather obvious logos that are on them. Unless you think people will mistake Samsung's logo for the worm-eaten apple?
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
WINSTON982 Updated - 22nd Aug
@olePigeon the photo alteration sounds more like it was used to mislead people let alone the judge.
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
RayS.0056 22nd Aug
@olePigeon
Lay the 2 phones down, face up
I can read and only one phone says Samsung
Who makes the other
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
Hallowed are the Ori 23rd Aug
@ Rick_Kl

Tha actual size of the phone is not the issue here, the design and UI are the items in question.

Then why shrink the image?
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
His_Shadow 22nd Aug
And the non-story continues...
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
AdnanPirota 22nd Aug
Apple = LOL
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
Peter Perry 22nd Aug
It is okay because the patent is about to get tossed and then it won't even matter.
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
spark555 22nd Aug
Last time, Apple got caught using images which distorted the proportions (aspect ratio). This time they got caught altering the dimensions.

Is there _any_ level of mis-representation that team-apologist wouldn't try to dismiss?
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
Scrabbler 22nd Aug
Changing digital picture resolution == doctoring?
Then all photos are doctored.
I am surprised zdnet is making another "story" out of this.
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
spark555 22nd Aug
@Scrabbler Placing two objects side-by-side and changing the resolution on _one_ of the two in order to artificially make them appear to be identical in size just MIGHT be an issue in a court case which is trying to prove that the two objects are too similar.
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You have got to be kidding?
Cayble 22nd Aug
@Scrabbler
I find it completely incomprehensible that you appear to think that in a court case where one side is alleging that a competitors product is overly similar to their own that presenting photographs of the objects that have been altered in a way that makes them appear more similar is a not an important story.

You make me laugh because if the shoe was on YOUR foot instead of Samsung I don't believe for one second you wouldn't be screaming blue murder over a company presenting altered photos to the court to show just how similar thee two products are.

I own an iPhone and I don't think for one second that what Apple has done here is appropriate, certainly not without some significant explanation. There are many competing products in this world that bear some significant similarities, often due to the reasonable functional use of the product, and in those many cases it often wouldn't take much photo shopping to make two photos of the different products appear to be close to identical.

Trying to kick this story to the curb as if its something that isn't discussion worthy reeks of a favoritism for Apple that is noteworthy in and of itself. Its shameful.
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
Return_of_the_jedi Updated - 22nd Aug
What is the point they (applets) are trying to prove, Mac's are good at "shopping"?

PS. It was probably rendered on a Linux farm.
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
grayknight 22nd Aug
Apple should not be changing the sizes of Samsung's products so they look even more like Apple's. This is just dishonest. Size is a design factor and extremely noticable to the average person.
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What does Samsung's home screen look like?
toddybottom 22nd Aug
I'm confused because in Samsung's image, the home screen looks totally and absolutely different than the iPhone's home screen yet in Apple's image, the home screens look somewhat similar (grids of icons with rounded corners).

I can understand Apple's concern that people might look at a Samsung phone and confuse it with the iPhone but if Samsung's home screen looks totally different then how could there be any confusion as to what you are trying out in the store? Does Samsung's marketing material use the home screen that looks totally different than Apple's or the home screen with the grid of icons with rounded corners?

It just seems to me that Apple is really beginning to stretch their scenario that any user could possibly be confused as to what they are buying. If Apple has to change aspect ratios, change the size of the device, remove the Samsung logo, and navigate to something other than the home screen in order to prove their point, are they honestly suggesting that any customer would "miss" all those steps, end up with this altered Samsung device, and then get angry because they thought they just bought an iPhone?

Like I said, I sympathize with Apple (or anyone else) that feels some other company is trying to pull a fast one on consumers. However, the evidence seems to show that Apple is the one trying to pull a fast one here.
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Considering that probably 99% of the time
MacCanuck 22nd Aug
a smartphone buyer will not see (compare) an iPhone and Samsung look-a-like directly, side by side, the slight size difference makes little difference to Apple's concern and argument (ie, that the phones (and tablets) look similar in appearance to Apple products and could lead to confusion).

If one were to see the Samsung products standing alone, the size difference would not be apparent but the physical similarities would remain.

Or... place them side by side and the (slight) size difference would be apparent (to many) but place them 5 feet apart and most would probably not perceive the size difference. They would appear (Apple's position) to be the same device because of deliberate design similarities.

If a buyer is specifically looking for an iPhone (or iPad), desperate and unethical salespeople will gladly tell them the similarly looking devices "are the same".
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What an unethical salesperson
toddybottom 22nd Aug
@MacCanuck
How about if the buyer asks to see the 2 iPhones at something closer than 5 feet away? And when the buyer asks why the Apple iPhone has SAMSUNG written on it? What about when the buyer asks why the iPhone with SAMSUNG on it has a totally different home screen than the iPhone without SAMSUNG on it?

How does the unethical salesperson answer those questions?
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Chuckle
rhonin Updated - 22nd Aug
@toddybottom
customer: "where's the glass back? Samsung means iPhone in Korean? My friends said the i4 was kinds heavy but this feels so light!"

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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
danbi 22nd Aug
@toddybottom

"And when the buyer asks why the Apple iPhone has SAMSUNG written on it? "

The typical answer is "you know, Samsung is great company, they have improved the iPhone. Look, it is even BIGGER!"

By the way, few months ago I was demonstrated an iPhone clone --- exact clone, including the packaging. The only difference was it was running Android and had resistive touch screen so you had not the same experience using it. If you have never ever used an real iPhone, that fake would look to you like the real thing!
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Deception
MacCanuck 22nd Aug
"How does the unethical salesperson answer those questions? "

The same way cheap iMac (original gumdrop version) clones were sold to unsuspecting buyers.

There have been many accounts/"stories" by online posters of unscrupulous salespeople duping "ignorant", trusting consumers.

Look at all the Android devices that no doubt fell into tech-illiterate buyers who thought they were buying the original iPhone just because it looked and functioned like one.
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
tim.w.jung@... Updated - 23rd Aug
@MacCanuck
Citation needed on "all the Android devices that no doubt fell into tech-illiterate buyers who thought they were buying the original iPhone just because it looked and functioned like one".

Sounds like something you just made up on the spot. In the US you have 30 days to return a cell phone that you don't like. So why in the world would any salesman try and mess with a customer like that when they will just be bringing it right back when it isn't what they want. Not to mention when they complain to carrier about the phone and the carrier calls the store and/or rep on the carpet for lying to a client.

I have seen it happen to salesmen when I used to work in the industry. Those salesmen are stupid, their names are all over everything and it is so easy to track them down when they lie to customers.
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
tim.w.jung@... 23rd Aug
@MacCanuck
You are totally wrong. When I was looking at getting the iPhone I had the iPhone right next to several Android phones to compare them closely in size, weight, screen resolution, and brightness. If you think that smart phone users don't do this, then your wrong. My wife did the same exact thing, and I saw several other people in the phone store doing the exact same thing. I have gone in to pay my bill at the store and I have seen people doing this. It is not uncommon at all for smart phone buyers to compare multiple phones side by side when they are trying to decide what phone they want to purchase.

Weight, size, feel when talking and how easy the phone is to read are a big deal to a lot of people and they want to hold the phone in their hand and compare it at the same time to other phones. Go to a phone store sometime and watch the number of people who test the heft a phone or put it up to their ear to get an idea of what using the phone would be like.
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
Xennex 25th Aug
@MacCanuck

Hmm.. Seems to me that the crux of the argument for Apple asking for an injunction is that a buyer will confuse one for the other and buy the 'wrong' one.. Maybe it's just me but I have never walked into a cellphone store and NOT noticed the info next to the phone stating cost/features and BRAND. No real confusion there..

If in the case of the unethical salesperson the buyer ends up with the 'wrong' phone it can be remedied.. (unless it's some fly-by-night operation). In such a case where do you think the buyer's anger will be directed? Not at Samsung or Apple, but the salesperson and most likely the store.
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
sy34010 22nd Aug
So when the iPhone 5 comes out in the next couple of months and does away with the home button along with a couple of other operational modifications to make it operate more like the competition, does that mean the lawsuits will start coming from the other direction?
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
spark555 22nd Aug
@sy34010 It would be really interested to get just one of the Apple Apologists to directly address the new iOS 5 notification center, which is quite obviously similar to the pull down menu that's been in Android for years.

Shall we ban all Apple iOS 5 devices until such time as Apple finds a way to "innovate" notifications in a manner that has to be different than existing designs?
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
SElizDav 22nd Aug
@spark555 - No, Apple will just try to find a way to sue them because Android notification center is similar to the iOS 5, and they can prove that they developed it first and they have (shopped) images etc, etc, whaaa whaaa whaaa! What a bunch of crap!
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RE: Apple continues to submit 'shopped' images to European courts
NZJester Updated - 16th Sep
I must also submit the PADDs used in Star Trek as an example of something that looks just like the iPad. In an interview Star Trek production artist Doug Drexler said that to him, the iPad is eerily similar to the PADDs used in Star Trek. You can see a video of two iPad like devices on youtube at /watch?v=JQ8pQVDyaLo from the movie 2001 or example of PADD here /watch?v=QyEYufFVUuI&NR=1.

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