Hardware 2.0

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Apple kicks Mac Pro up to 3.3GHz

By Adrian Kingsley-Hughes | December 4, 2009, 9:06am PST

Without the usual fanfare, Apple has given the high-end Mac Pro a speed boost to 3.3GHz.

The change only applies to the quad-core Xeon “Nehalem” model, with the 8-core models remaining unchanged (the fastest 8-core model is 2.93GHz).

Expect to pay a hefty premium for this sort of power. While the 2.66GHz quad-core Mac Pro will cost you $2,499, the 3.3GHz model will set you back a whopping $1,200 extra - and that’s just for the CPU.

Note: The list price for the 3.3GHz Xeon $1,600 while the 2.66GHz part is listed as $958. So Apple is making a good profit here but adding $1,200 to the base price considering that the actual price difference is only $642.

Looking for a quick way to spend $13,467? Here you go:

One 3.33GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
16GB (4×4GB)
Mac Pro RAID Card
Four 2TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
Four NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 512MB
Two 18x SuperDrives
Two Apple Cinema HD Display (30″ flat panel)
Apple Magic Mouse
Apple Keyboard with Numeric Keypad (English) and User’s Guide
AirPort Extreme Wi-Fi Card with 802.11n
Quad-channel 4Gb Fibre Channel PCI Express card

I’ll take two!

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Apple Macintosh, Quad-core, Apple Inc., Apple Mac Pro, Processors, Desktops, Semiconductors, Hardware, Components, Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

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So it is a W3580 (Bloomfield), not a W5590 (Nehalem)?

djchandler 7th Dec 2009

So if you know you have the updated EFI, you can get one from Newegg or and slip that into place, huh? From the MSRP Adrian quoted, I assumed it was the W5590.

Doesn't CPU swapping qualify as tinkering? It voids your warranty too.

Anybody have a W3580 vs. W5590 benchmark?

View in thread

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Expensive

honeymonster 4th Dec 2009

but then again this is a pretty beefy
configuration. I certainly wouldn't mind having on
e under my desk!

Are there any PC vendors who offer a similar
powerful machine? and at what price?

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Yes, and much cheaper...

olePigeon 4th Dec 2009

Yes, and much cheaper. However, this is an end-of-line product, and
will be updated in January.

What PCs generally don't offer is the same style and quality. 1/8" solid
sheet aluminum case, socketable internal hardware (no messy wiring),
beautifully designed interior as well as exterior.

It's a great machine, but it will cost more.

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Actually...

lostarchitect 4th Dec 2009

If you go to, say, dell.com and configure a
workstation like this it's usually more expensive.
Shocking, I know.

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Custom Built, Though...

WarhavenSC Updated - 4th Dec 2009

140 - Coolermaster HAF 932 Full Tower
810 - (Supermicro Certified) 24 GB Crucial DDR3 1333 ECC RAM
244 - Supermicro C7X58 Mobo (includes 6x SATA raid controller)
1360 - x4 Hitachi A7K2000 RAID Class 2TB HDDs
1830 - 3.3 GHz Intel Xeon Nehalem
170 - Antec Quattro TPQ-1000 1000W PSU
1862 - x2 ATI FirePro V8700 1GB Workstation Card (Crossfired)
3942 - x2 Apple 30? Cinema Display
999 - Apple Fibre Channel Card (Windows compatible, surprisingly)
49 - Apple Aluminum Keyboard
38 - Logitech MX 518 Mouse
26 - LG 24x DVD Burner
97 - HT Omega Striker 7.1 Sound Card
---------
$11567 (prices includes tax & shipping where appropriate)

Complete with two actual workstation graphics cards.

[edit]
Forgot to add in a FireWire 800 card as well to match the MacPro, but oh well.

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And superior in every way..

dumai 4th Dec 2009

This machine is far superior to the machine spec in the article and it's cheaper.. The machine I spec'd would have been on par, but dramatically cheaper. All I can say is, you're paying an enormous amount of money for the OS, when you build this machine and the one from apple.

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There's also labor cost involved [nt]

WarhavenSC 4th Dec 2009

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As specifications are concerned, yes...

olePigeon 4th Dec 2009

As specifications are concerned, yes, but not in the construction of the
computer.

As I said, the general build of a Mac Pro is the best I've seen in any
computer on the market. Even if you don't like Apple computers, I
suggest anyone take close and personal look at the build of the machine.
I'm sure you'd be impressed with the attention to detail.

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Yep I looked

bobiroc 4th Dec 2009

Same components can be had for cheaper. Cannot mimic their case exactly but highly durable and efficient cases are out that are better than Apple's You are just "wowed" by how pretty it is and cannot see past looks.

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@bobiroc...

msalzberg Updated - 4th Dec 2009

look inside the case of a MacPro. It's not the design of the outside
that's cool (personally, I don't think it's that good looking), it's the very
functional design of the inside that I don't think you'll find elsewhere.

http://www.apple.com/macpro/design.html

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@ bobiroc - I don't think so...

olePigeon Updated - 4th Dec 2009

"Cannot mimic their case exactly but highly durable and efficient
cases are out that are better than Apple's"

I don't think so. I don't know of a single company outside of Apple
that makes their cases out of a solid sheet of 1/8" aluminum.

Also, as msalzberg mentioned, take a look on the inside. I'm not
saying that the same components can't be had for cheaper, you are
correct on that point, I'm just pointing out the quality of the
construction and the attention to function and style.

You don't have to like Macs, I'm not trying to change your opinion on
that, but I think you're overlooking a great example of industrial
design. Apple has a few decent pictures of the inside as well as
outside. Apple even puts in time to make the rear of the computer
look very nice and clean; and chances are you're never going to see
that part of the computer more than 2 or 3 times.

http://www.apple.com/macpro/

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What You Pay For

DannyO_0x98 Updated - 4th Dec 2009

Besides the parts, the assembly, the shipping, a company that will be around in two years to answer any warranty issues and to stand behind the inclusion of hardware that came from a bad bunch, and someone who thought about how the operating system they provide works with the hardware they assemble. Also you are paying for an updated platform of your choice which may run the production software you use more profitably.

If you actually have a situation where self-built / HP / Dell / Apple are all equally valuable choices, then go with the least expensive. The professional world has to take other things into consideration which is why it rarely asks Bob to take an afternoon and build a new workstation.

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custom built is a very different ballgame. (n/t)

lostarchitect 4th Dec 2009

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Depends on how you look at it

bobiroc 4th Dec 2009

I mean the Quadro Cards in the Dell are far Superior to those GeForce cards in MacPro but they are also more expensive I found it hard to match part for part with Dell because some of the options on their Precision workstations greatly exceed that of the MacPro.

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RE: Apple kicks Mac Pro up to 3.3GHz

dumai 4th Dec 2009

I just built a similar configuration using an online system builder tool. Although there were some small differences, two GTS 250's rather than the 4 required for the mac, the built system came out to $6819.81 before taxes, and yes this included Win7 Professional.

That's a significant difference I'd say.

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How much did the Fiber Cards cost ???

mrlinux 4th Dec 2009

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$999 plus tax [nt]

WarhavenSC Updated - 4th Dec 2009

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Where are the pro options?

Joe_Raby 4th Dec 2009

This system is a joke now. Where are the OpenGL-tailored professional workstation video cards from the NVIDIA Quadro line? Why aren't there any ATI FireGL and FirePro cards?

Where are the SAS hard drive options? $700 for a RAID card and they don't even give you any options for purchasing SAS drives on the order form??? $300 for a 1TB drive? They had better be enterprise-class SATA for that price.

And why, for gods sake, are they using only DDR3-1066??

This is now just an expensive prosumer toy for someone with more money than brains.

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I was wondering about that...

WarhavenSC 4th Dec 2009

Apple used to offer the workstation-flavors of ATI and nVidia cards with the Mac Pros. Now it's just run-of-mill desktop video cards as of the last WWDC, and they don't even offer the top-end versions of those either.

I would expect at the very least an option to get the 1GB or 2GB model of 4870 (or 4890?), if not something from the 5800 series, and perhaps something from the GTX 200 series. But seriously... 512MB 4870 and 9500 GT (GT 120 is the OEM name for this)?

Mac Pro used to be quite the bang for the buck with regard to high-end workstations, but it's really lacking now and not even much of a workstation with that video card lineup.

As far as the hard drive is concerned, I haven't a clue. If the Pro uses the same HDDs as the Xserve, then obviously yes.

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It's being updated in January. [nt]

olePigeon 4th Dec 2009

[nt]

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GT 120

Joe_Raby 4th Dec 2009

The GT 120 is an OEM-only part, yes. It is also a PCI-e 2.0 part, whereas the original was PCI-e 1.0.

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Well, Apple's online store is notoriously simplistic...

olePigeon 4th Dec 2009

"Where are the OpenGL-tailored professional workstation video
cards from the NVIDIA Quadro line? Why aren't there any ATI FireGL
and FirePro cards?"

Well, Apple's online store is notoriously simplistic. If you actually call
Apple, you can build-to-order SAS drives in numerous configurations
as well as have a Quadro FX card installed.

As for ATI cards, ATI doesn't write drivers for OS X, they only do
drivers for Windows and, ironically, Linux. All drivers for ATI cards are
done inhouse at Apple. As far as I know, Apple doesn't have any
drivers for the FIreGL or FirePro cards (though they will work under
Windows.)

"They had better be enterprise-class SATA for that price."

Supposedly they are, but "enterprise" doesn't seem to mean much; just
look at the Time Capsules.

"And why, for gods sake, are they using only DDR3-1066??"

There is relatively no real difference between 1066 and 1600 unless
you plan on overclocking your computer (which would void the
warranty.) I'm sure it'll be upgraded when the next revision of Intel
chips are released.

One thing I've always maintained is that PCs are definitely a lot more
customizable and generally cheaper than anything Apple provides.

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Re: your comments

Joe_Raby 4th Dec 2009

"If you actually call Apple, you can build-to-order SAS drives in numerous configurations
as well as have a Quadro FX card installed."

They used to offer Quadro's on the order form before. Now they don't. Why?

"As for ATI cards, ATI doesn't write drivers for OS X, they only do drivers for Windows and, ironically, Linux. All drivers for ATI cards are done inhouse at Apple. As far as I know, Apple doesn't have any drivers for the FIreGL or FirePro cards "

Again, they used to sell FireGL cards. Now they don't. Why? Also, ATI drivers for the Radeon line can easily apply to the FireGL series. The only difference is in professional application validation, and a few very minor features that are turned off in the consumer lineup ie. antialiased lines and v-lock.

"Supposedly they are, but "enterprise" doesn't seem to mean much; just look at the Time Capsules."

Time Capsules actually DON'T use enterprise SATA drives. They use standard desktop drives. Enterprise SATA drives have similar vibration and temperature tolerances to SAS, but with a SATA controller. In fact, the hardware in enterprise SATA drives differ only by capacity and rotational speed options (SAS will go up to 15K RPM but you usually see that only on 2.5" SAS drives). The controller circuitry and resulting connector is different though. Enterprise SATA drives are a good option in RAID. In fact, WD doesn't certify their desktop drives for RAID - they have "RAID Edition" drives that are only classified as enterprise SATA quality. WD has only recently added SAS to their lineup because their enterprise SATA drives were deemed "good enough" for a long time. They are taking their time with SAS. The current Velociraptor is a 2.5" drive with 10K RPM and high tolerance. It has been moved to the enterprise market, and is basically a 2.5" 10K RPM SAS drive with a SATA controller instead.

"There is relatively no real difference between 1066 and 1600 unless you plan on overclocking your computer (which would void the warranty.) I'm sure it'll be upgraded when the next revision of Intel chips are released."

Actually there are benchmarks that prove that wrong. Real IO benchmarks used for scientific and engineering computations....you know, what the previous marketing was pushing the Mac Pro for. They used to advertise it as a professional workstation for complex scientific applications, engineering, workstation graphics, and the like. Even listing IO and FPU scores on their website. The Intel chipsets that they use now are designed for DDR3-1333 natively, and they aren't using it. That's ridiculous!

"One thing I've always maintained is that PCs are definitely a lot more customizable and generally cheaper than anything Apple provides."

To that, we can both agree. Apple is heading towards losing the professinal market that they used to market the Mac Pro to and I maintain that the new model is still a joke compared to its former status.

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You have to call Apple...

olePigeon Updated - 4th Dec 2009

"They used to offer Quadro's on the order form before. Now they
don't. Why?"

You have to call Apple. The online store is for "most people," but not
everyone. Apple offers a lot of custom configuration options that are
not available through their online store.

Enterprise and business orders are also generally handled in person
and not through the online store. This is on purpose.

"Again, they used to sell FireGL cards. Now they don't. Why? Also,
ATI drivers for the Radeon line can easily apply to the FireGL series.
The only difference is in professional application validation, and a few
very minor features that are turned off in the consumer lineup ie.
antialiased lines and v-lock."

I don't remember Apple ever offering FireGL cards. I could be
mistaken. If they do, I would imagine it's the same deal as the
Quadro cards. You'd need to order them through the phone instead of
online.

"Time Capsules actually DON'T use enterprise SATA drives."

You are correct, Apple just stated they were "server grade." According
to Wikipedia, it wasn't the drives that failed on the Time Capsule, but
the power supply. So it looks like I was wrong on both counts.

In any event, you don't have to use Apple's hard drives. Usually the
first piece of advice given to any new Mac user is to buy HDDs and
RAM via 3rd party; you'll save quite a bundle.

"Actually there are benchmarks that prove that wrong."

I understand that it's measurably faster, but I stated that there is
relatively no difference. There is nothing perceptually faster
about 1600 over 1033; you aren't going to notice anything.

"Real IO benchmarks used for scientific and engineering
computations....you know, what the previous marketing was pushing
the Mac Pro for."

When the Mac Pro was introduced, Apple was the only company on
the planet that was selling Nehalem Xeon based workstations. This
continued for several months; some sort of exclusivity deal Apple has
with Intel. So, yes, it was the fastest desktop machine you could
purchase anywhere for quite some time.

Now it is getting a little long in the tooth, but that will be remedied in
January.

You also have to remember that it's not simply buying a computer
with the latest specs. If that were the case, no one would buy
anything from Apple considering you can always get a cheaper
machine from someone else. What you're buying is the Apple
experience; it's the integration of the OS with the stylish computer.
You can't buy that experience from anyone else.

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Phoning in the Order

WarhavenSC 4th Dec 2009

If I phone in the order, I wonder if Apple will sell it barebones. Everything but the RAM and HDDs...

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I tried that once when I bought my old Power Mac

Tigertank 4th Dec 2009

This was years ago so I don't know if policies have changed but Apple
would not sell me an empty machine. The fellow I spoke to said they
could not sell a non functioning Mac out the door. He recommended
that I buy the cheapest configuration at the processor speed I wanted
and upgrade the components from 3rd party stuff. I eventually ended up
buying cheaper RAM, a better video card and a Faster processor on line
than what was available from Apple at the time. Though as I aid this was
years ago.

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I don't think that policy has changed...

olePigeon 4th Dec 2009

I don't think that policy has changed, but it's not too bad to just get 1
stick of RAM and the smallest & cheapest HDD they have; then just hock
the stuff on eBay.

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I have to disagree on something you said

Joe_Raby 5th Dec 2009

"There is nothing perceptually faster
about 1600 over 1033; you aren't going to notice anything."

When you're using engineering apps to calculate something intense, or using a heavy workstation graphics application and the increase in RAM helps performance by cutting down several minutes in a long calculation job, that time adds up. If your high-end rendering can be cut an extra 20 mins over even an 8 hour/frame job, that's considerable. RAM speed can easily help in calculation-intensive tasks.

"You also have to remember that it's not simply buying a computer
with the latest specs."

You disagreed with yourself with the previous statement:

"When the Mac Pro was introduced, Apple was the only company on the planet that was selling Nehalem Xeon based workstations."

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I have to agree

edwards.wb 6th Dec 2009

I'm not an engineer, or even someone who demands
workstation graphics, but I do notice the speed
increase of 1600 over 1033. I built a core i7
based machine over the summer and switching
between 1033 and 1600 shaves about 3 or 4 seconds
off of my boot time, not to mention I do notice a
performance difference when gaming, or running
multiple virtual machines.

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Nice specs, way too much $.

djchandler Updated - 4th Dec 2009

Custom built is the way to go. Labor from competent techs shouldn't be too high to rule out that consideration.

If you think you need OS X, you're certainly paying a lot just for the OS. Furthermore, if you know Apple is refreshing the product line in January, would you seriously consider this now?

For that kind of money you could build a true personal supercomputer. Put one of Nvidia's Tesla processors in the configuaration perhaps. But that restricts you to Windows or Linux.

Would you be willing to custom-build a Hackintosh for even half this amount of cash? Not me.

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People were putting W3580 Xeons into their Mac Pros long before now.

HypnoToad72 5th Dec 2009

Apple quietly updated the EFI some time ago.

Nice to hear it officially; the 3.33GHz Xeon (W3580) is rather faster than a dual 2.26 CPU rig for multi-threaded apps, but at 3.33GHz will cremate the 2.26 unit for single-threaded apps. grin

Pity we can't overclock, but we buy Macs for stability. Not for toy tinkering. Nixing the ability of overclocking assures Apple of complaints people would otherwise blame them for...