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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes
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Apple snooping on your location ... how do you feel about that?

By | July 21, 2010, 8:59am PDT

So, Apple has admitted that it collects encrypted location data every 12 hours from iPhones running OS 3.2 and iOS 4. How do you feel about?

“When a customer’s device sends Wi-Fi, cell tower, GPS, or diagnostic location information to Apple, it does not include any information identifying the particular device or user,” explains Apple’s General Counsel, Bruce Sewell.

This data is retained for six months, and will not be passed on to third parties without the user’s consent.

How do you feel about that?

Poll

Apple snooping on your location ... how do you feel about that?

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Apple Inc., Smart Phones, Operating Systems, Consumer Electronics, Personal Technology, Software, Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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And we believe Apple why?
archangel9999 22nd Jul 2010
@athynz Why would you implicitly believe Apple on this? Because they're such an egaletarian outfit?
View in thread
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RE: Apple snooping on your location ... how do you feel about that?
jorjitop 21st Jul 2010
You can switch off Location Services. I am much more worried about Google spying on me everywhere on the internet. Would never use an Android phone.
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RE: Apple snooping on your location ... how do you feel about that?
Bookmark71 21st Jul 2010
@jorjitop

Aren't location services the opt-in choice to let an app like the weather channel use your location automatically? This doesn't sound like they give you a choice.
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RE: Apple snooping on your location ... how do you feel about that?
msalzberg 21st Jul 2010
@Bookmark71

Settings | General | Location Services |

From there you can turn on or off location services globally, or for each app that uses it. There is also an icon next to the battery indicator which shows if location services are in use.
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Agreed. I'm also worry about Google spying on me and stealing
iPad-awan 21st Jul 2010
@jorjitop
my personal and private data. In addition to being able to opt-out of Apples services, I can feel safe because Apple (unlike Google) does not keep specifics information. All data Apple picks up are general data that anyone can pickup if the go out into the public.
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Google doesn't care about anyone's private data
matthew_maurice 21st Jul 2010
@iPad-awan They just want to pimp you out to advertisers, so they're only interested in your public data-it's far more lucrative, just ask Facebook.
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RE: Apple snooping on your location ... how do you feel about that?
Jimster480 22nd Jul 2010
@iPad-awan its funny how fanboi like you jump out instantly to defend Apple when its discovered that they are doing the same things u fanbois bashed Google for doing. And u can opt out of location based services on Android phones too.
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Who really knows what data Apple collects?
archangel9999 22nd Jul 2010
@iPad-awan And you know with 100% certainity that Apple doesn't keep specifics? Because the Kool-Aid tells you so??
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Have you ever thought
bobiroc 21st Jul 2010
that this is diagnostic information to see how the phones are performing around the world. No personal information is collected as they say. Why do you bloggers insist on writing stuff that is designed to create unwarranted paranoia and fear.

Now if you can prove they are gathering personal identification data or data other than general usage that may be used for diagnostic reasons then you can start talking. Other than that please stop with all the FUD.
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RE: Apple snooping on your location ... how do you feel about that?
mrgoodall 21st Jul 2010
@bobiroc , Adrian needs page hits, its almost month end.
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RE: Apple snooping on your location ... how do you feel about that?
YaBaby 21st Jul 2010
@bobiroc
There seems to be data that backs up your point of view. Mention Apple lots of hits, mention Microsoft bleh ... who cares same s..t different day.

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RE: Apple snooping on your location ... how do you feel about that?
Pete "athynz" Athens 21st Jul 2010
So, Apple has admitted that it collects encrypted location data every 12 hours from iPhones running OS 3.2 and iOS 4. How do you feel about?

I can't say I like it but I'd like to know how is this different from the information Google collects from the Android devices?

?When a customer?s device sends Wi-Fi, cell tower, GPS, or diagnostic location information to Apple, it does not include any information identifying the particular device or user,? explains Apple?s General Counsel, Bruce Sewell.

Ahh, that answers my question from above... Still can't say I like it too much though... it's one thing for AT&T or any other carrier to have this sort of information but why does Apple need it?

This data is retained for six months, and will not be passed on to third parties without the user?s consent.

And does Google have a similar policy with the data they collect from the Android devices? Also an iPhone user can turn off location services globally on the device which stops any data being sent from the iPhone. Specific location services can then be enabled. Does Google allow Android to do the same?
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RE: Apple snooping on your location ... how do you feel about that?
Droid101 21st Jul 2010
@athynz
Maybe they do. Why does everyone assume Google is just mining data permanently?
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Oh, I don't know; maybe it's their business model
frgough 21st Jul 2010
of mining data to sell adwords. Or maybe it's the fact that they've been caught doing it and archiving the data for years.
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Uh, it's WHAT THEY DO!
matthew_maurice 21st Jul 2010
@Droid101 You realize that there's no such thing as free, right? So that "free" search, "free" email, and "free" mobile OS comes in exchange for Google selling access to you to the highest bidder. It's their Business Model.
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@matthew_maurice: Right, I forgot that Apple doesn't have an ad platform
NonZealot 21st Jul 2010
Google selling access to you to the highest bidder. It's their Business Model.

Oh wait, Apple does do this as part of their Business Model:
http://advertising.apple.com/

iAd gives brands what they?ve been waiting for:
Access to the global audience of iPhone and iPod touch users. Enhanced Targeting. Premium creative. Robust measurement.

Cue the double standards...
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You and your double standard fetish.
matthew_maurice 21st Jul 2010
@NonZealot The operative phrase is "a part of their Business Model", and to anyone with an IQ above room temperature it would be obvious that it's a very small part. Serving ads is really all Google does, at least all they do for money. Which is fine. Selling ads isn't intrinsically wrong. The problem is that when you ask someone what business Google, or Facebook for that matter, is in they probably don't guess "advertising targeting and delivery."
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@matthew: Got it
NonZealot Updated - 21st Jul 2010
a part of their Business Model

So collecting personal data for, and I quote Apple, enhanced targeting of ads is okay as long is it isn't a big part of your business model. In other words, if 2 companies perform the exact same data mining of your personal information, your privacy is somehow more intact if the company doesn't make as much money from that mined data?

Do you guys even think about what you are saying before you hit the Reply button?

PS My personal opinion is that Google and Apple can collect as much non identifiable information about me as they want. I don't, however, have a double standard (unlike you) where I try to paint one company as evil (Google) and another company as a saint (Apple) even though they are both doing exactly the same thing.

Cue the double standards...
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Apple growth market
archangel9999 22nd Jul 2010
@Droid101 But that's clearly the growth market Stevey has indicated HE wants to go after with the iPhone/iPad platform
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And we believe Apple why?
archangel9999 22nd Jul 2010
@athynz Why would you implicitly believe Apple on this? Because they're such an egaletarian outfit?
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Unfortunately...
superbus 21st Jul 2010
Anyone that complains about this is probably doing so while checking in somewhere on Foursquare while using Google Maps. So it's hard to really *****, and I'm surprised this is even news.
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Huh?
HooNoze 21st Jul 2010
"... does not include any information identifying the particular device or user" and yet they won't pass on the data without the user's consent.
How would they get the user's consent?
Collecting location data without identification data would make the data useless. Maybe they just mean the data doesn't include your name.
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RE: Apple snooping on your location ... how do you feel about that?
fourdaspam 21st Jul 2010
@HooNoze - nice "I call Bull@%&$t".
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You don't have a mobile device, do you?
matthew_maurice Updated - 21st Jul 2010
@HooNoze The way it works is, the device "phones home" to Apple every so often saying "I'm at x,y." Apple says, "OK, I'll remember that." User launches an app that supports location-based advertising, which the user opts-in to when the OS says "App xxx would like to use your location info yes or no?" When you say yes, the app calls Apple, Apple asks its pool of advertisers "does anyone care about anyone at x,y?" and Fridays says "Yeah, tell them that if they come they'll get a free irish nachos with any cholesterol and sodium special."

To advertisers, you, personally , aren't very interesting. However, where you are and what you buy certainly are.
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Sounds reasonable, except for a couple of points.
HooNoze 21st Jul 2010
@matthew_maurice
First, there is no reason for Apple to say "OK, I'll remember that". The location data is on the phone and if the user authorizes an app to use it, that data can be transmitted to Apple for location sensitive services.

Second, according to the article, the capture is only taking place every 12 hours or so. That makes the data a bit too old for most location based services. In the aggregate, the data may yield some insight into market saturation, but that data is more easily available thru other means - Warranty, registration etc.

So, why the data retention policy, and why the seeming contradictory statements that they don't collect user ID data, and they won't pass it on without user consent. Obviously, in order to get the users consent, they need to identify the user.
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RE: Apple snooping on your location ... how do you feel about that?
Socratesfoot 21st Jul 2010
All services can potentially snoop information. If MS did this people would be furious. But the issue is more whether you trust the company that does it. This is something that Microsoft has never understood. A long history of raiding churches over copyright issues on old DOS versions of Word, ridiculous schemes to lock users into application dependencies, and the release of grossly buggy software that users are charged to fix...well, even those that like MS don't trust them. Apple or Google snoop your information, you know in a few weeks or months it'll be purged and that it won't be used against you.
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I have Mobile Me ...
fourdaspam 21st Jul 2010
This is really no different than having a subscription to Mobile Me. Of course I opted in to have the location of my iPhone tracked. That way, if I ever loose the iPhone I have my choice of remote lock, remote text, and/or remote wipe. I generally don't let my iPhone out of my site, have it in my pocket, etc. but if I ever did loose it...
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Well, except for the whole advertising thing.
matthew_maurice 21st Jul 2010
@fourdaspam "Find My iPhone" is great, but the real benefit is that you don't have your correspondence parsed for AdWords.
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RE: Apple snooping on your location ... how do you feel about that?
Droid101 21st Jul 2010
@matthew_maurice
Keep throwing around that FUD.
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RE: Apple snooping on your location ... how do you feel about that?
matthew_maurice 21st Jul 2010
@Droid101 What FUD? That Gmail content, like everything provided by Google, is parsed for AdWords is a known fact. I neither fear it, am uncertain about it, nor doubt it.
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All cell phones give location data.
Lester Young 21st Jul 2010
They are triangulated by cell tower pings whenever they are turned on. Cell phone location data figured in the Reiser case.
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RE: Apple snooping on your location ... how do you feel about that?
jpdemers@... 21st Jul 2010
Guess the Apple-haters have moved on to a new "issue". It's time to drop ZDNet from my inbox.
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Buh Bye!!
NonZealot 21st Jul 2010
@jpdemers@...
You won't be missed. Trust me. happy
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Why is Apple being attacked here? The real danger is Google
iPad-awan 21st Jul 2010
Google is the one that is actively committing crimes against the public. And what's worst, Google is willfully deceiving net citizens across the globe. I'm pretty sure Google is spreading these rumors about Apple as well. This is how they compete (they have to, all of their products except search end in failure).

I've havent seen this on ZDNet yet but Google is the one being probe for illegal actives. Check out this link about one of Google's many crimes.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dozens-of-states-probing-google-data-collection-2010-07-21?siteid=rss&rss=1?mod=WSJ_latestheadlines

I think ZDNet should look into this.
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RE: Apple snooping on your location ... how do you feel about that?
Jimster480 22nd Jul 2010
@iPad-awan You are one of the biggest fanboys I have ever seen. Google is not commuting crimes around the world. Their products dont end in failure and they aren't spreading rumors about Apple to make them look bad (apple makes themselves look bad all by themselves).
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I would be more worried if Apple didn't get data
Ken_z 21st Jul 2010
How can Apple (or any other company) analyze usage data if they can't obtain the data in the first place.

I see Apple's efforts a lot less concerning than Google pulling data when they have cars driving up and down the streets.
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RE: Apple snooping on your location ... how do you feel about that?
peacerocker 22nd Jul 2010
911 services can located your exact location, there is NO WAY to totally turn off location services. It's just bunch of crap Apple is dishing out saying you can turn it off. Do some research and you will see I am correct.

There are programs available that will enable people to turn on your computer/phone camera remotely without you knowing. This just recently happened to a student with a Laptop given to him by a school."The school district admits that student laptops were shipped with software for covertly activating their webcams, but denies wrongdoing." BULLCRAP! You can read about it here http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html
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RE: Apple snooping on your location ... how do you feel about that?
sarai1313@... 22nd Jul 2010
let them do their own feild work .i'm not getting payed to do it.

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