ie8 fix
madison

Hardware 2.0

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Beware of Windows 7 downgrade/upgrade mess

By | June 17, 2009, 5:50am PDT

According to Gartner analyst Michael Silver, businesses looking to migrate to Windows 7 could find the whole process much harder and more expensive than it needs to be … thanks to Microsoft.

Here’s what Silver had to say to Infoworld:

“Under Microsoft’s planned enterprise licensing rules, businesses that buy PCs before April 23, 2010, with Windows 7 pre-installed can downgrade them to Windows XP, then later upgrade them to Windows 7 when they’re ready to migrate their users. But PCs bought on or after April 23 can only be downgraded to Vista - which is of no help for XP-based organizations, Silver notes - and could cause major headaches and add more costs to the Windows 7 migration effort.”

So, the upshot is that after April 23, 2010 you could end up with a pot-luck stew of systems running XP and Vista. That’s bad news if you’ve been planning on skipping Vista. If you wanted to avoid this kind of mess, there are options open to you, but none of them are particularly attractive:

  • Take the Software Assurance (SA) route which costs some $90 extra per PC per year. This allows you to install any OS you want. However, most go for SA as a way to future-proof systems rather than to get downgrade rights, and even then you can end up paying for air (for example, if you had bought SA in October 2003 with an eye to getting the next version of Windows in the deal, you’d have been out of luck since Vista didn’t make an appearance until November 2006).
  • Buy more PCs before April 23, 2010 and hold onto them until you need them.
  • Try finding someone willing to sell XP licenses.
  • Rush to adopt Vista or 7.

None of these options are particularly attractive. Maybe the best route for companies tied to XP is to look at PC replacements over the past few years and stock up on spare XP licenses, just in case. If you’re confident of your numbers you could buy these as part of new systems before the deadline. Remember though, that buying a PC that you aren’t going to use for many months is not being sensible with your money.

[UPDATE: Microsoft has finally clarified the XP to 7 downgrade rights, extending the period to 18 months following general availability ... or until SP1 is released.

So, once SP1 is around the corner, you'll need to be ready to roll with 7 or have a contingency plan in place.]

Decisions, decisions …

Kick off your day with ZDNet's daily e-mail newsletter. It's the freshest tech news and opinion, served hot. Get it.

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

Related Discussions on TechRepublic

Did you know you can take part in these discussions with your ZDNet membership?
307
Comments

Join the conversation!

Just In

"No wonder Microsoft wants to do away with it!"
kfortner51 30th Dec 2009
Microsoft does not make money continuing to support an "outdated" operating system. They are in the business to make "improvements" by way of "changes" to maintain their "income flow". Their short-comings are in the decision making of their upper management and marketing personnel, to think that an OS like Vista would actually be approriate for the business environment is far from being in touch with the real world. To discontinue support for a pre-existing OS to force the purchase of the "next OS" is paramount to putting a gun to the heads of the worlds businesses.
0 Votes
+ -
XP is dead guys....
Cylon Centurion 17th Jun 2009
Let it go. Vista works, and contrary to popular belief, is quite stable, and ready to carry your business.

If you still need XP, you can always run it in a VM...
0 Votes
+ -
So is Vista
kitko 17th Jun 2009
Actually, if XP's dead, Vista had died sooner.
0 Votes
+ -
What I forgot to add was...
Cylon Centurion 17th Jun 2009
By the time most companies upgrade to 7, XP will be 9 almost 10 years old!

No wonder Microsoft wants to do away with it!
Im sure Vista will be going long time before
XP. Vista is not ready nor has it ever been
ready for real world business work. IMO, it's
the worst OS ever produced by MS since 95, I
feel it makes 95 look good. I've played with
all OS's and hoping Windows 7 makes the jump
from XP worth while, seems much better than
Vista and is more productive and less annoying
and hampering while using it. I think MS
listened to some of the complaints about Vista
and hopefully will release a good OS for Home
and Business alike. Yes, I'm a Mac and Linux
user too. I give some preferences to some over
others but these are my needs and not others. I
like the flexibility and diversity of knowing
using different platforms. I just know more
than the average MS user. I must say, MS has
been the worst. I deal with it just as everyone
else does. So on to new adventures with Windows
7, woo hoo.
0 Votes
+ -
Ed Bott
Cylon Centurion Updated - 17th Jun 2009
had written a few months back that Vista would be supported for some time yet. They have to support it yet, despite Windows 7's excellent reviews, alot of people still seem to be making the jump to Vista. My college being one of them.


Microsoft is really itching to let go of XP, and honestly, I don't understand why anyone would want to downgrade to a 9 year old operating system. Especially one that is very open to malware and frequent crashes.


Anyone still needing XP can obtain a free license with XP mode in Windows 7. That right there I feel is the killer app that will signal the death knell of XP.
0 Votes
+ -
The reason for downgrade
tmsassoc 17th Jun 2009
"I don't understand why anyone would want to downgrade to a 9 year old operating system. Especially one that is very open to malware and frequent crashes."

Crashes aren't that frequent for most systems but more importantly is the issue of enterprise deployment. There are always issues with the first release of any new OS, especially for Windows, and enterprises with potentially hundreds of systems to upgrade are definitely not early adopters of new OS's. Therefore they need to maintain the existing network, which for most is XP Pro, until the initial issues with the new OS are resolved. Many enterprises will move to Win 7 and some of those before the first SP is released but at the same time not for 4 to 6 months after the official release of Win 7 which is not until late next year.
0 Votes
+ -
Next Year?
jemd@... 17th Jun 2009
Win7 release date is October 22, 2009!

0 Votes
+ -
Why downgrade
T1Oracle 18th Jun 2009
When you can do a full Windows upgrade?
0 Votes
+ -
Frequest crashes?
notsofast 17th Jun 2009
I prefer Vista to XP, but I find it odd that you frequently crashed with XP (I assume you mean BSOD or OS lock that requires a reboot).

Both of those were extremely rare, IME, in XP.

0 Votes
+ -
Yeah... BSOD
Cylon Centurion 17th Jun 2009
Most often it was my dammed Creative card. Crashed Vista too when I first got it. Since getting rid of it Vista has been fine...
0 Votes
+ -
No frequent crashes for me
mjnelson99 17th Jun 2009
I had XP for several years and still dual-boot with Vista and XP since some of my favorite software cannot run in Vista.

I rarely had a XP crash in those years. Vista has crashed on me a few times in less than a year.

Do plan to ditch Vista and go with Win 7 when it is released. I have the RC on my laptop and it is faster at almost everything than Vista Home Premium.
0 Votes
+ -
Yep
pwn0tr0n 18th Jun 2009
It happened to me frequently for a period of a week, seemingly with a different driver every time. I updated all of my drivers first. Then I started looking at hardware. I ran memtest and found a bunch of errors on a stick of RAM.

Another time I had a bad drive and sectors where system files were, were getting errors. That was a long time ago.

Not XP's fault wink I'm fairly confident that if an xp install is crashing it's going to be either a driver, disk, or hardware problem because it's a very stable OS.

It may be a steaming pile, but stability is definitely not on the list of what's wrong with xp.

-Viz
0 Votes
+ -
XP mode in 7 not always an option.
fwarren 17th Jun 2009
Anyone still needing XP can obtain a free license with XP mode in Windows 7. That right there I feel is the killer app that will signal the death knell of XP.

But you have to buy the most expensive version of Windows 7 to get that ability. Also the VM will not run all hardware. This is an issue. For example: the place I work has a $300,000 metal press using NETBUI networking and Windows 98 software. It does not function reliably on XP and won't run on Vista.

By reliably I mean we really are not excited about putting a $30,000 sheet of aluminum in the press and have it cut wrong due to a network error.

I am sure there applications where people don't want to replace $300,000 hardware. Will need to replace the PC. And Microsoft is making it easier to get a copy from some Warez website than buying it from them.
0 Votes
+ -
XP mode in 7 not always an option.
bradavon 18th Jun 2009
It's not always needed. The majority of software works perfectly fine in Vista, some you may need to "run as admin" but that's just a single tick box.
0 Votes
+ -
WOW
medezark@... 18th Jun 2009
You're problem isn't with microsoft!! It's with the vendor of your metal press!!
0 Votes
+ -
He's the problem tell him to upgrade the networking or USB link?
0 Votes
+ -
Just curious, but...
HAFox 18th Jun 2009
Seems like updating the software for the $300,000 press just might be a worthwhile investment. How long will your company be able to continue to find reliable hardware that will run Windows 98 and NETBUI? I seem to remember an old business addage..."pay me now or pay me later". Either way, you'll have to pony up eventually.
0 Votes
+ -
XP Crashes...what about Vista?
Aragorn7 Updated - 17th Jun 2009
XP doesn't crash that often and when it does, there are usually fixes available -- many in fact.

When Vista breaks and the Startup repair feature isn't the solution, it usually means a backup and reload. It has, I believe, five times the code of XP.

When it comes to the ability to fix the OS, I'll take XP any day. That said, you are quite right that Vista is much more secure than XP and if Vista does get infected, it is much easier to clean-up.

I like Vista, it's just a bear to repair and I don't find it all that stable. If it were, we wouldn't be talking Win 7 already.
0 Votes
+ -
XP Crashes...what about Vista?
bradavon 18th Jun 2009
Vista's rapair options are significantly stronger, all you get in XP is that dodgy Recovery Console, that doesn't even understand DOS commands in the same way.

Check out all the tools on the DVD.

Vista is also significantly less likely to crash in the first place. From my experience of 2 years of Vista, I've not seen one BSOD and have had to use System Restore once. This is much reduced from how often I'd see them on XP (which in itself wasn't often).
0 Votes
+ -
Vista Crashes
gmtiii 18th Jun 2009
I'm currently running Vista 64bit on a system with 8gigs of ram, ATI Crossfire graphics, 2 optical drives and 3 terabytes of hard drive space,and last but not least a tv turner card. My cpu is a quade core by Intel at 2.83 ghz. The reason I'm going into so much detail is that I have never shut the systm down, only a reboot as needed. VISTA 64 is one of the best Micosoft has come out to date. So why upgrade to the unknown or downgrade to an inferior OS'S
0 Votes
+ -
XP, however, is the best OS made by MS.
0 Votes
+ -
Vista Doesn't Crash Just becuase!!
Ez_Customs Updated - 20th Jun 2009
It is just rediculous that everyone blames Vista for everything. almost half way threw the current list of replies, and most of them are about Vista Crashes to much, more or less. Well I unfortunately have had vista from day one or close to it, and Vista itself never crashed due to system kernel. I did have problems with Vista blocking it's own extentions for awhile, but identified it caused by the OEM I had from HP, but that was fixed upgrading to a retail version, or to the next version up. I did both, and never saw it ever again. The problem with most of you and Vista crashes is that you have bad hardware, or it just sucks. Sure XP is pretty stabel but it will never add up to Vista, and surely never 7 32/64 bit.


Just suck it up, light that Dino on fire, XP is dead, and most the early computers that where released with XP in the beginning totally cracked out anyway and were worthless. Stop using stability as an issue and start looking at just how much quality is in your hardware. Just learn from your mistake from cutting corners in technology just to save a few hundred, You can't expect much out of a bottom of the line PC anyway.
0 Votes
+ -
Sorry dude...
pgm554 17th Jun 2009
Your college is not the real world.

Contrary to those ivory tower geeks who believe newer is all ways better.
In the case of Vista ,it is not.

Adding a different color handle to a hammer does not make a hammer drive nails any better than the original.

Vista was more about superficiality and marketing than performance(which sucked).

Quel surprise that the public actually rebelled and caught this charade!

When you actually get out in the real world and understand that most companies lie about their products and capabilities,you will then see things without the distortion of the rose colored glasses of their marketing machines.
0 Votes
+ -
Interesting post.
Cylon Centurion 18th Jun 2009
If college isn't 'the real world' then I guess I don't know what is.
0 Votes
+ -
Real World
gmtiii 18th Jun 2009
Why cannot a person have a system with Vista 64 which does not crash, maybe you should read up on some white papers or how to work with Vista as it a complicated operating system and STABLE
0 Votes
+ -
The real world
AzuMao 18th Jun 2009
Means when you get out of school/college and start actually working, being productive, that kind of thing. Which vista is useless for, since it actually performs WORSE then XP!
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
I agree, pgm, academia is not the real world
jerryz58 Updated - 19th Jun 2009
Good points, pgm.

I worked for msft for years. They lost control of performance on Vista. They lost control of their binary building system during Vista. Vista is a joke, right up there with Windows ME. Hopefully, with the former Office team in control of Windows, W7 will be a decent product. Hopefully, it will be what Vista should have been.

Ask the Vista guys like Brian Valentine and Jim Allchin why they could not make WinFS work? Ask them why it was a performance pig.

That is the "real world", NStalnecker. W7 is being pushed because it is the QFE fix for Vista.

I hope you will learn more when you get into the "real world".
Based on your post, I for one don't believe you ever worked for MS.

Please, explain this "binary building system" they "lost control of" with Vista.

WinFS worked, it just wasn't practical. Stopping a project that has little to no value is a good decision, in the real world.
0 Votes
+ -
Value vs expectations
AzuMao 19th Jun 2009
The thing is, they should have decided that BEFORE
getting everyone's expectations up about it.

Coming up with something interesting and getting
everything excited over it, then just pulling the
plug on it.. not very good business sense.
Especially if they succeeded in making it anyways.
May as well have released it and let people decide
for themselves whether or not they will use it..
0 Votes
+ -
Sorry, rtk, you just don't know the facts
jerryz58 Updated - 19th Jun 2009
"Based on your post, I for one don't believe you ever worked for MS." Whatever! LMAO

RTK, I am not going to prove anything to you or explain much to you. You are free to believe what you want.

Build labs at any professional, world-class coding organization have to compile all of the code, thus building the binaries necessary for the application, OS, or whatever (and I will stay away from code/binary optimization for right now). Code changes can easily break builds. You can figure out the rest for yourself, because it seems that you are probably much smarter than I, or at least you seem to think so.

BTW, Office has one of the best, most disciplined, most professional build processes around. At least IMHO.

And WinFS was not ready for prime-time, though it is a great concept. And Vista is a performance hog.
0 Votes
+ -
Ok, gotchya Jerry
rtk Updated - 19th Jun 2009
So your claim is, they lost control of the ability to build binaries for vista and released... what?

Maybe you're thinking about Longhorn, where they lost control of the project and had to reset after three years? If so, Longhorn and Vista are completely different animals.

Upon further reading, I'm more likely to believe you might have worked for MS, in the Office division probably? What's unclear is whose decision it was for you to leave. wink

0 Votes
+ -
not another one
Ez_Customs Updated - 20th Jun 2009
Why are here so many people that can't buy real computers, oh I know they think that spending less now pays off in the future. Even a CEO should know better then this. It makes no sense to spend less on hardware in computers to save money. In the end even if it is someone who administrates your comptuers in the company network, they are still having to spend time int he lab fixing the skitzo computers. Why don't they understand that all that man power though technically free still adds more hours in the end to get teh jobs done that they should have been working on in teh first place. Look at it like this, and you will see that your companies really do have a small thoughsand to ensure a decent network per client. Even you home users.

My Pops always told me that just becuase you can't afford it this second, you will appreciate it when you can, save your pennies now, then enjoy them when they're matured. Only then will you be happy!!


This saying has a lot of meanings, but with him saying this to me, he was really talking about all the video games I bought with my allowance at the age of 10, but this saying really does mean much more then that to me today. I spend more now, fix it less later, and do so with less stress!


Oh and before I get flack about the CEO comment, well I said that because most the people who grip the most about it make themselves out to be in these huge network administration crews.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Ok, gotchya Jerry
jerryz58 Updated - 21st Jun 2009
"Maybe you're thinking about Longhorn, where they lost control of the project and had to reset after three years? If so, Longhorn and Vista are completely different animals."

RTK, Longhorn and Vista are the same product. Longhorn was the internal codename. Longhorn is a bar between Whistler and Blackcomb Mountains in BC, Canada. wink
0 Votes
+ -
Re: Ez
AzuMao 21st Jun 2009
Because they have no need to go out and buy a new
computer with a new operating system when the ones
they have now already do everything they need and
then some.
0 Votes
+ -
Know your history.
rtk Updated - 21st Jun 2009
RTK, Longhorn and Vista are the same product. Longhorn was the internal codename. Longhorn is a bar between Whistler and Blackcomb Mountains in BC, Canada. wink

Search wikipedia for "longhorn". Included in the results is "Windows Longhorn, a cancelled Windows operating system by Microsoft in 2003"

If ya hit the url for it, you'll learn all about how Longhorn was reset, restarting completely and now based on 2k3 server's codebase.

Longhorn circa PDC 2003 is not at all related to Vista.

You'd think an MS employee would know all about it.
0 Votes
+ -
In otherwords
AzuMao 21st Jun 2009
They didn't even make a new OS from scratch after
all. They just built it on top of server 2003 (XP
x64).
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
Re: in other words
rtk 21st Jun 2009
please, point me to the modern OS that isn't based on previous operating systems?

Not Linux, and not OS X either, by the way...

Back on topic, Longhorn is not Vista.
0 Votes
+ -
"zomg vista is new OS from scratch no wonder it
was so buggy for so long" excuses in the replies
here.
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
"Downgrade"?
AzuMao 17th Jun 2009
I don't see why anyone would want to downgrade to
an OS that is still infantile when they have a
perfectly stable OS that has been extensively
tested and used for almost a decade and thus had
all its problems worked out.
0 Votes
+ -
Ah Ed
cammobus@... 18th Jun 2009
What Frequent Crashes .... my x64 XP runs solid ... I go Weeks at a time between reboots because of one update or another ....
0 Votes
+ -
Stability
gmtiii 18th Jun 2009
I think it may be the 64 bit operating system, because I have the same experience with Vista 64 bit
0 Votes
+ -
Same here cam
AzuMao 18th Jun 2009
I've never run into any driver problems with XP x64, and it's never crashed.
0 Votes
+ -
Did someone really say "I can't imagine why..."?
geolemon Updated - 18th Jun 2009
I must have read "I don't know why anyone would
downgrade to a 9 year old OS" about five times
already, and I can't believe the ignorance.

The reasons are similar to why you'd never buy
a first-year new car model. Sure - early
adopters might find it fun to run the risk to
have something new, and sometimes there's a new
neato feature or two, but the reasons to wait
(or avoid) are plenty:

** The longer the OS is out, the more knowledge
there is about it

** The longer the OS is out, the more
references and resources there are to support
it.

** The longer the OS is out, the more qualified
expert-level employees there are to select
from.

** The longer the OS is out, the more stable it
becomes.

** Older OS's require a smaller investment in
PC hardware than newer OS's (particularly when
you are talking about Vista's deplorable
performance on non-upgraded hardware)

** The longer an OS is out, the more familiar
non-technical employees are with interfacing
with the technology.

**Adopting a new OS may mean significant
additional investments in updating proprietary
software and/or internal documentation.

**The risks/issues/benefits must be weighed in
having a mixed bag of OS's throughout a company
as you work through an expensive migration
plan.

Particularly when you add Vista's annoyances
(as minor as they might seem to technical
people such as ourselves, end users in a
corporate deployment are regularly spooked),
and the waste-of-hardware required just to
drive pretty graphics and still yield a net
loss in actual performance... (Oh yeah, I
should be just WILD about adopting Win7!)

...and it should be a little more clear why
most companies are saying "Upgrade? To THAT?
Are you crazy?"
0 Votes
+ -
Have you used it
wizardb@... 18th Jun 2009
It sucks plain and simple top end hardware and it crawls
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
have YOU used it?
Ez_Customs 20th Jun 2009
Nice top end hardware you have. I have Socket A hardware that is older then XP that owns on 7.

Your top end hardware either is worth new less then $500 or you ruined it with the insain Overclocking. Serves you right. If you demand higher performance, maybe next time you will do it right and get hardware that really is top of the line so that you don't have to cook it just to get a few more frames /second!!
0 Votes
+ -
He didn't say he didn't run.
AzuMao 21st Jun 2009
He said he crawls (ran slow).


And why waste more money to get a stronger
computer just to have the same performance you had
in XP with a less power-guzzling one? What a waste
of time, effort, and money!
0 Votes
+ -
Keep taking the self-praise...
LeeC 17th Jun 2009
"I just know more than the average MS user."

And I just know more than the average astronaut.

I've been using Vista in a professional development environment for a good period, no crashes, no BSOD's, nothing to cause me any concern.

But then again, like I say, I use it in a "professional" environment running multiple IDE's, where I do more than just open notepad and a browser window or two.
0 Votes
+ -
Vista
gmtiii 18th Jun 2009
Right on, maybe Vista is for the serius user
0 Votes
+ -
Did you forget
lipl1 17th Jun 2009
Didn't you forget Y2K Windows Millennium Edition
0 Votes
+ -
Microsoft does not make money continuing to support an "outdated" operating system. They are in the business to make "improvements" by way of "changes" to maintain their "income flow". Their short-comings are in the decision making of their upper management and marketing personnel, to think that an OS like Vista would actually be approriate for the business environment is far from being in touch with the real world. To discontinue support for a pre-existing OS to force the purchase of the "next OS" is paramount to putting a gun to the heads of the worlds businesses.

Join the conversation!

Formatting +
BB Codes - Note: HTML is not supported in forums
  • [b] Bold [/b]
  • [i] Italic [/i]
  • [u] Underline [/u]
  • [s] Strikethrough [/s]
  • [q] "Quote" [/q]
  • [ol][*] 1. Ordered List [/ol]
  • [ul][*] · Unordered List [/ul]
  • [pre] Preformat [/pre]
  • [quote] "Blockquote" [/quote]
ie8 fix
Click Here
ie8 fix

The best of ZDNet, delivered

ZDNet Newsletters

Get the best of ZDNet delivered straight to your inbox

Facebook Activity

White Papers, Webcasts, & Resources
ie8 fix
ie8 fix