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Hardware 2.0

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Confirmed: Microsoft is fiddling with system files without permission

By | September 12, 2007, 1:30pm PDT

Summary: If this turns out to be true, it has some very serious (and disturbing) implications …

Breaking news - Latest from Microsoft

[Updated: Sept 13, 2007 @ 6.50 am - After checking a system set not to automatically update I can confirm that this stealth update is real.]

If this turns out to be true, it has some very serious (and disturbing) implications:

vistalogosmall.jpgMicrosoft Corp. has started updating files on computers running Windows XP and Vista, even when users have explicitly disabled the operating systems’ automatic update feature, researchers said today.

Scott Dunn, an editor at the “Windows Secrets” newsletter, said that nine files in XP and Vista — but not the same files in each operating system — have been changed by Windows Update, the Microsoft update mechanism, without displaying the usual notification or permission dialog box. The files, said Dunn, are related to the XP and Vista versions of Windows Update (WU) itself.

The files on Vista are:

  • wuapi.dll
  • wuapp.exe
  • wuauclt.exe
  • wuaueng.dll
  • wucltux.dll
  • wudriver.dll
  • wups.dll
  • wups2.dll
  • wuwebv.dll

And on XP SP2:

  • cdm.dll
  • wuapi.dll
  • wuauclt.exe
  • wuaucpl.cpl
  • wuaueng.dll
  • wucltui.dll
  • wups.dll
  • wups2.dll
  • wuweb.dll

If this turns out to be true (and I want to make it clear that I’ve not confirmed this) then this will be a very serious betrayal of trust on Microsoft’s part. Not only is it hard enough to keep track of changes done to a Windows installation as it is, but if Microsoft (or other companies) start updating systems without consent, this will lead to all sorts of trouble. On top of that, it paves the way for companies to make silent updates to technologies such as DRM and anti-piracy features.

Microsoft needs to address this issue and address it fast because the fallout from this could be very damaging.

Thoughts?

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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MS fiddling with system
murali_nair40@... 22nd Oct 2007
'""NOTHING"" IS FREE IN THIS ETERNAL WORLD INCLUDING eula.
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Its their OS which you rent
deaf_e_kate 12th Sep 2007
so why shouldn't they update if they want?
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Its their OS which you rent
ricksterjs_z 13th Sep 2007
Not sure I have updates turned off correctly? I have these disabled, Auto Up in Sys Prop, WGA in Pluggins, Autoupdates in TskMan Process(C:\WINXPRO\system32\svchost.exe -k netsvcs), BITS, RAS, WRD, UPnP and Remote Registry.

I don't have any of the updates mentioned that I didn't authorize later than July 27, 2007.

I'm sure the next update I authorize will likely include the ones in this discussion. MS may simply be trying to use its update system more efficiently. I just want to use the software and get on with my business. Cheers!
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Control of Business Processes
Jambalaya Breath 14th Sep 2007
is not accomplished by inserting head in sand nor is defense of personal privacy which, in the US of A, is legally guaranteed via its constitution. BUT ONLY IF IT'S ENFORCED WITH AN IRON CUDGEL IN HAND.
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That will change
jsjag1 13th Sep 2007
With the patent changes on the horizon I believe (we do need it) that this entire flap over who owns software will be addressed. In the end, it is the software developers that will change.

It is not renting, if it were renting, I would have rights that I don't have with ownership. Renting means that someone else will fix all problems associated with the rental unit. It doesn't matter if that rental unit is 1 year old or 1o years old, if I have no rights of ownership then I don't need to fix a corrupted DLL file in Win 98. I call MS and they do it for me..for free.

Now does MS fix corrupted things in their 98 Win / OS? No. So do I own it or rent it. That position is used my software companies to their benefit. If it is broke....your problem you own it. If you want to sell it....you can't it is rented.

So software companies are slowly bringing the question toward a court decision. I don't think software companies want to fall under rented because if they do, the tenet of rental control will also confer expected rights to the renter. Rights like, fix my win 98 OS.

Speaking of Win98 I have an old box that works quite well. I was rummaging through the registry yesterday and cam across something I didn't recognize. It was Fortezza. I did a search and apparently it is trademarked by the US government's National Security Agency. None other than the NSA. Kind of brings to mind a line from an old movie, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid where the lawman following them can't be shaken and the one guy says, "Who are those guys?"

Oh and BTW, when you are renting the person you are renting from doesn't have explicit rights to come into your home unannounced or other such annoyances. So MS, if this is true can we all say.......CLASS ACTION!
0 Votes
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We never really own anything. Since we're only given a limited reign on this planet,
you could say we're all renting or maybe we're caretakers. Some people and
organizations collect information and take priveleges and use them to control other
people and organizations. We have laws, but often the laws protect the people who
are the controlers.
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Ethereal tonight
jsjag1 13th Sep 2007
Getting quite ethereal tonight eh?

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At first
Jambalaya Breath 14th Sep 2007
I thought you were referring to the software "Ethereal".

"Ownership"during my time alive means that -I- get to control the "owned" thing during that lifetime.

"Rental" means that I obtain certain defined rights of use while others retain ownership. They agree to maintain those rights on my behalf in exchange for a fee.

"License" means exactly and only what the license says it does. It is a civil contract which is limited only by your ability to negotiate well (fat chance) and by the laws of the nation where the contract applies.

Have you read a good End User LICENSE Agreement recently?

You either accept the Microsoft EULA or you use some other operating system.
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Renters have rights...
ja4509 13th Sep 2007
I suppose you would expect a landlord to enter your house anytime they want even if you left a note on your door to contact you first if they needed in.
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Actually
Jambalaya Breath 14th Sep 2007
in the US, it's the landlord who has to let you know that he (she, they) wants access except under emergency conditions or in cooperation with the law.

With software, though, there might be an argument made that such access is limited by the DCMA. Erm, maybe not.

Either way, if you don't want Microsoft poking around in your computer without even letting you know it's doing so, you will need to switch operating systems.

Steal (my reasonable expectation of privacy) once, shame on you. Steal it twice, shame on me.
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Shame on them!
vmeck@... 26th Sep 2007
Its not shame on me. I have no good alternative to what I do with MS OS's (XP) and remember I bought my WinXP! If car manufactures were to come and change your car (diminish it) after buying it they would be sued and yo would prob. never buy from them again! This is true of any other products in the world so why should MS get away with it!
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Try again.
frankframer 13th Sep 2007
They have no more right than the owner I RENT my house from to walk in WITHOUT my knowledge or consent.
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aaahhh but does that apply to software????
deaf_e_kate 13th Sep 2007
did you read your EULA as to what you signed up to allow and not allow?
I dare you to take MS to court over this update as yhour Rent arguement. They have you by the gonads so Good luck
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Many things are so but
jsjag1 13th Sep 2007
There are many powers that companies and governments assume until someone has the $$$$ to take them to task. It is then when we see if those powers are of legality or just usurped powers.

That EULA that so many point to could probably (if someone had the $$$ to take to task) be considered a contract of adhesion because it was not freely bargained. It is a one sided agreement and many times when push comes to shove, a contract of adhesion are considered void by courts.

In the past thirty I've signed plenty of contract of adhesion type agreements and ones that don't lean in my favor. But I want the job and so I sign it. That doesn't make it a legal offer but........

Nobody has touched the EULA because frankly, there is no money to be made in taking the case.

It's kind of like those little slips of paper you sign for your kid to go on a field trip, the paper that is to relieve those transporting your child of all liability. The problem is they are not valid and are only there to keep those that don't know to sit down and shut up. The legal hole is big enough to drive a Kenworth semi through.
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Sure, no problem
CobraA1 13th Sep 2007
Many courts have ruled that EULAs are not laws and cannot override laws.
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Sure, sure.
Chippolus 14th Sep 2007
No problem, all you have to do is have the money to outlast the richest company in the world in court... and hire a lawyer to go against the best battery of lawyers that money buys...

You go first, we'll watch from here.
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Better check
jsjag1 13th Sep 2007
May I suggest you ask your attorney about that right that you assume. In most States there are laws against it. happy Sorry about that but you can't just walk in that rented house.

Try entering that house in the day with your pass key, no renter at home and you could...just could see the Constable at your door this evening.
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If you live in an apartment...
MacGeek2121 13th Sep 2007
All they have to do is put a note on your door and they can come in and pretty much
do what they want.
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Place a not
jsjag1 13th Sep 2007
You say if you place a note...well yes, you have given them permission.
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It's their right
John L. Ries 12th Sep 2007
MS created the OS, people chose to install it, so MS has the sovereign right to do whatever it wants to your Windows machine (I'm sure that users all agreed to that when they clicked on the EULA they didn't read).

Of course, actually complaining about it (or even worse, withholding your patronage from MS because of it) simply proves that you're an anti-business extremist with no appreciation for the fiduciary responsibility corporate executives have to look after the the interests of their stockholders (and nobody else).
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Re: It's their right
posted 12th Sep 2007
"withholding your patronage from MS because of it) simply proves that you're an anti-business extremist "

extremist for withholding my patronage?? what a JOKE. I will withhold "patronage" from any company I deem unworthy to receive my "patronage".
0 Votes
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I was being sarcastic
John L. Ries 13th Sep 2007
But maybe what I posted sounded a bit too much like real pro-MS cant.

Such is the risk.
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I knew dat!
Ole Man 18th Sep 2007
I knew not many people are that dumb, specially you.

Have fun living on the wild side, there.

Cheers!
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It *was* good...
Starderup 28th Sep 2007
You might get a call with a job offer. I thought that was a good Ballmer impression!
0 Votes
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Hold on there pal!
ja4509 13th Sep 2007
If I lease a house the landlord does not have the right to come walking through my door any time they feel like it!!!!
0 Votes
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Hook, line and sinker!
Dr. John 13th Sep 2007
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brief comment
roaming 12th Sep 2007
"EULA they didn't read"

happy
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What legal right?
jsjag1 13th Sep 2007


True but there is also other responsibilities that a corporation have to follow. Their Corp charter is given at the leisure of State Statutes. Of those responsibilities the company can't choose to place workers in harms way just to save money and bolster the next filed 10K.

I did not choose to have a certain manufacturers ball joint on my car, I chose to buy a car. That ball joint manufacturer allows me to drive and steer my car, period. It doesn't convey rights to that manufacturer to fiddle around my car without my knowledge.

I am not sure where you find the rights you expressly give to MS. This is my computer not theirs, I pay my ISP, I pay my electricity bill and it is my home. Even the government can't enter my home without reason or notice. No company should be able to, at will, place something on my computer. They are pushing the envelope and will eventually lose this case. And believe me there is a case coming. Attorneys relentlessly use computers and have privacy issues with a company that enters that computer without permission granted.

I'd lay my money down that MS is in deep do-do.

BTW, when someone buys a computer they didn't choose to install Windows. Probably greater than ninety percent of the time it was already chosen for them.
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Oh, dear
John L. Ries 13th Sep 2007
I agree with everything you said and more, but the free enterprise/property is everything (but yours doesn't matter) cant that pro-MS types tend to throw around here is rather thick, so the sarcastic post seemed appropriate.

Now if I could only get a pro-MS poster to tell me why my sarcasm was off base.
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Depends on their laziness
Chippolus 13th Sep 2007
"BTW, when someone buys a computer they didn't choose to install Windows. Probably greater than ninety percent of the time it was already chosen for them. "
Horsefeathers. When someone chooses where to buy the computer, they choose the rest. If you choose Dell then you get what you deserve. I have NEVER installed the OS without discussing the wants of the customer. EVER. And if people weren't so cheap and lazy they would actually do enough research to know what they are best to use.
Probably greater tan ninety per cent sounds like you pretty well researched that tidbit though.
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Good for you!
Ole Man 18th Sep 2007
Everybody is soooo glad you aren't lazy like ninety percent of the population.

Just don't break both your arms patting yourself on the back. You don't deserve it.

Sounds like the biggest thing you have going is your ego.

Happy trails!
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Bull
frankframer 13th Sep 2007
Bull. They do not have that right. No more than an auto manufacturer has the right to make changes to my vehicle WITHOUT my knowledge or consent.
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That's three fishes
John L. Ries 13th Sep 2007
I very much agree. What you read was my feeble attempt to parody certain pro-MS posters, most notably Anton Phildor.
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To approach the intergalactic orbits that Anton circulates in. You have to operate outside the realm of reality and soar below the limits of make believe, while maintaining the appearance of logical mental intercourse. Whatever that means.

Good luck!
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Poor analogy.
Chippolus 13th Sep 2007
How often do you connect to GM to get your engine updates to make it run (theoretically) better? If you ever got a mandatory recall would you be able to choose not to participate?
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Don't know
John L. Ries 13th Sep 2007
Does GM repo recalled cars without notice so the dealership can make required fixes?
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Better get a night light wink
0 Votes
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Par for the course!
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Mandatory recall?
jsjag1 13th Sep 2007
There is no legal recourse to MAKE anyone bring their car into the dealer for a TSB or recall. The mandatory recall is from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to the car manufacturer. The onus lies on the manufacturer and dealer to fix the problem. If you choose not to participate, so be it.

Do you really expect us to believe a judge will out out a bench warrant because you didn't take your car into the dealer.


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Not the law, the hazard
Chippolus 13th Sep 2007
"Do you really expect us to believe a judge will out out a bench warrant because you didn't take your car into the dealer."
No... but it might take a bit of fortitude to keep driving it if the manufacturer is forced to fix it and you ignore it. Makes ya nervous. Like a computer on the dangerous internet without updates. Scary.
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But it's your choice
John L. Ries 13th Sep 2007
Fortunately, it would be rather expensive for GM to maintain crack teams of guerilla mechanics to fix the cars of people who ignore mandatory recalls (maybe they can train raccoons). If you don't take advantage of an offer to fix something that really is a problem free of charge, guess who's fault it is if something goes wrong (but you still get a choice; after all, the car is yours, not theirs).

Surreptitious tampering with files residing on your computer by your OS vendor is presumptuous, to say the least; I can think of no good reason to tolerate it.
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Granted.
Chippolus 14th Sep 2007
True, all of it. But somewhere along the line, something has been agreed to. I want to see where the update was applied and what the wording of the agreement was. Then I'll decide if they were being sneaky, not just yet. I still don't like grabbing the lynch rope as soon as someone points the finger. "Awww", the finger pointer will say, "But nobody likes them, doesn't that MAKE them guilty?"
"Nope" I will say, "I want to see the facts."
Then the two of us get strung up by the mob.
wink
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Agreed
jsjag1 13th Sep 2007
Agreed. But you are not being forced to do it and that is the difference. It is the stealth that is the problem with MS has done to their customers.

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Yes.
Chippolus 14th Sep 2007
I agree too. None of my computers are running any of those files, my updates are turned off... What update installs them I have yet to perform, but how many of those stealth updaters were approved, do you figure? How many people read something like "will actively check for updates and blah blah"... and then said "hey, something is moving in there... like its active or something"...
You would not believe how many customers bring their computers to me because they clicked something they did not want, or read.
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Poor analogy, but ...
davbran 13th Sep 2007
I would love to see software companies, Microsoft or otherwise held to the same lemon laws car dealers are held to. This Sell it now Patch it later mentality is tiresome. I am tired of buying software that doesn't work only to find out that the issue is a "Known" issue. It wasn't made known to me prior to purchasing. They hide issues so well you have to read an encyclopedia worth of KBase items. Then you can't get a refund on your product because you broke the seal and might have pirated it. Meanwhile the individual pirates don't get busted and they KNOW if it will work on their machine and aren't out the price of enternal ignorance. I don't want stealth patches, but I do want meaniful patches and I want quality products. Neither of which we get anymore until a year or more after we buy them.
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That is why
Chippolus 14th Sep 2007
I don't run vista. If people weren't in a rush to buy the latest greatest, NOW, and waited to buy, it would send a message to software makers that we don't want to be Beta Tester Mark II. Let the damn pirates do their beta testing... ha ha.
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RE: It's their right
tstimmell 14th Sep 2007
By your reasoning since I work for GM, I have the right to come over to your house in the middle of the night and monkey with your car without your knowledge or consent.

And as for the anti-business bit, fiduciary responsibility only goes so far. It does not, for example, preempt the rights of the individual.
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Sounds like Apple
mdemuth 12th Sep 2007
http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=496

Just shoving stuff in at random with updates, trying to slide stuff by while not informing the end user.

Hope MS hasn't looked too closely at Apple's playbook.
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Microsoft have done that for many years. MS hiding updates and bugfixes in their downloads is not a new concept
most of us here would know that. the point is installing without one's knowledge.

gnu/linux...giving choice to the neX911)t generation.
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I dont really see any difference between installing silently and installing a "fix" on your machine that contains more than the bug report tells you. Use MS software at your peril.

I don't see why Windows users even care about silent installs as MS "always has theirs users best interests at heart" and knows whats best for them.
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MS fiddling with system
murali_nair40@... 22nd Oct 2007
'""NOTHING"" IS FREE IN THIS ETERNAL WORLD INCLUDING eula.

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