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Hardware 2.0

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

European PS3 shipments seized following LG injunction

By | February 28, 2011, 11:55am PST

The legal battle between Sony and LG hots up as a legal injunction comes into force banning the importation of the PS3 games console into Europe.

The Guardian has learnt that thousands of PS3 games consoles were seized by customs officials in The Netherlands following a ruling by the civil court of justice in the Hague. This ruling now means that all new PS3s imported into Europe for at least the next 10 days will be confiscated at the borders. It is possible that this confiscation order could be extended beyond the current 10 days. Alternatively (although far more unlikely), LG could apply for a court order to have the consoles destroyed.

The legal dispute centers around Blu-ray technology belonging to LG being used by Sony in the console.

As retailers normally only keep a few weeks worth of consoles, these seizures could lead to shortages, which in turn could hit Sony’s bottom line.

Grab the popcorn … this could get interesting.

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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RE: European PS3 shipments seized following LG injunction
p2pvoice@... 2nd Mar 2011
@Aerowind You took word right of my mouth.
You pick a fight only when it's worth fighting over....
All this does is hurt the consumer. Where was the injunction about this 5 years ago when Sony reportedly created the blu-ray technology? now LG is complaining because Sony is getting rich off of it? LG, you lost your chance 5 years ago, leave us gamers alone.
@KBot Actually, that's precisely why they held off. If they put the bid in when the PS3 came out, they wouldn't have gotten a dime. However, if they win this, they would get "compensated" for every PS3 that's been sold. Truthfully, it's a dick move, but well, you know what they say about greed.
@Aerowind

Oh yea I get why LG did it, which is precisely why they need to immediately go bankrupt now. I liked that company, now I think they're just a bunch of greedy @$$holes. Although maybe I'm being too harsh, I like MS and look how much they do, they don't even allow game makers to put up free DLC because they want a piece of the profit.
If they waited this long to file, then they should be compensated from the date of filing, not the entire 5 years. If they wanted to be compensated for all that time, they should've brought it up immediately and negotiated a settlement then.
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@Aerowind "but well, you know what they say about greed."

Greed is good?
@Aerowind

I can't see why it woudl matter. If Sony Created the BluRay who cares what LG thinks. Sony will win. all they need is oen thing that sets Sony's implementation of the Blue Ray apart and LG looses there Case. When it coems down to it, The Streaming aspects of teh Blueray in teh PS3 sets it apart from everything else. LG doesn't even have a comparable player of there own. This Case is solid in Sony's favor, dont' worry about it!!
@KBot

You can get free download-able content while using MS products, just not for every game. MS doesn't control that, unless it is on there Live domains, and even then I have games that are on the Free DLC list, like Batman
@Aerowind You took word right of my mouth.
You pick a fight only when it's worth fighting over....
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apparently not.. lol..
doctorSpoc 28th Feb 2011
@KBot
@KBot
This must be a new thing, it's usually Sony suing everyone for trying to use what they paid them money for.
@sboyce@... I have been reading up on this and I kid you not when I say this all started because Sony filed a lawsuit against LG. And it makes sense when all blu ray history I have read Sony was the first to try to market it. I think if anything LG did this counter suit to show that they aren't pushovers. An injunction after all doesn't mean they won the battle. They just proved that there is enough of a case to delay product. I'm betting Sony will drop there case and LG will stop applying for injunctions.
Who really cares. All the real game players know a good pc kicks any console a$$. Even the game makers add more to the pc side.
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ACTA future
guihombre 28th Feb 2011
LG of course can take Sony to court and win damages if they were right, with their 'recording medium having multiple data streams' patent from 2007-May... AFTER PS3 was launched.

http://www.itcblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/LGbluray-complaint-4feb11.pdf

Shows you how much damage ACTA can do. It's a trolls paradise, in the heads of the politicians only REAL companies will sue Chinese pirates, but back in the real world most of the lawsuits will be trolls suing productive exporting companies into collapse.
@guihombre

If LG filed the original patent claim after sony had brought it to market then the court case would obviously fail.

Sorry, but people keep making wild statements about things they do not understand, then claiming that due to their failure of knowledge the patent process is unfair.

I have not read the patent, but I suggest you research this further. Find out the initial filing date - not the granting date.

It can take many, many years for a patent to be granted, they do not just get stamped 'Approved' when you walk in - that is only in bad movies.
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@richardw66
It's even more complicated -- the EU uses a first-to-file system of handling patents, rather than a first-to-invent system as is practised in the US.

For example: Consider an invention that is independently conceived by both person A and person B. If person A came up with it a few days before person B, but person B managed to get the patent application properly filed a few days before person A, the outcome may be different depending on whether you're in the EU or the USA.

In the USA, if person A can prove that he had completed the inventive process a few days before person B (for example, through marketable goods or published white papers), and if he then worked diligently to get a patent filed for the invention as soon as possible, but still ended up filing his patent application after person B, then person A might still be able to invalidate person B's patent in favour of his own.

In the EU, person B would be more likely to prevail because the filing date of the patent holds more weight than the date at which the two inventors independently completed their inventive work.
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Not a first-to-invent but first-to-be-approved
crave420fubar@... 1st Mar 2011
@richardw66 and @lfmorrison
The United States has not used a first-to-invent" system for about 20 years. If the Patent is filed and not yet aproved then another can argue in that time that they invented it first however after the patent has been granted then if someone was to challenge the patent they would have to prove that the patent holder used material that belonged to the plaintiff. Even if this is proven then the patent is not transferred but the defendant is usually ordered to pay damages to the plaintiff. This may sound simple but can take over a decade. As for how the EU handles patents I have no idea, I never filed for one there.
@richardw66

So True look at taht Classic 8 BIT game from Sega and NIntendo (Rambo) it was a Sega Title for about 5 years before anythign weas made of it, however, Tengen won for one reason, they got the product out first. Had Sega got there version out first Sega would have won. The same thign will go with this PS3 BS. Sony got PS3 out before LG hasd a working BluRay Player. Shoot I think that PS3 was out before most of the players today.
@lfmorrison

However this will boil down to where the companies are operating at. and LG isnt' a EU company Neither are US companies
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Meh, seen it before.
stimepy 28th Feb 2011
It's the age old battle of who got there first. Does LG deserve some action? Probably. Is this the best way to get it? Probably, yes a dick move and it hurts gamers [size=freaking huge]BUT[/size] we've seen this done before a thousand times over, Microsoft, Apples, Oracle, Sun, etc. Its the SSDD. Who's going to win? Nobody, this is just a way for LG to make some news, maybe sell a few more products. NEXT!
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Who's going to win?
Tank252ca 1st Mar 2011
@stimepy That's easy. It's always the lawyers that win. They'll get hundreds of thousands of dollars for working this case, win or loose, and then those costs get passed onto the consumer. What a wonderful system.
@stimepy

PS3 Gamers are not gonna care, most of us are avid gamers and just want quality, so then if the PS3 goes bye bye in teh EU, well the EU are mayjor gamers and they will just go buy a PC! nuff said. Whats teh Difference, well really nothing a more realistic PC experience without the Game Pad. To bad we can't say the same for teh xBox which has nothing but Arcade feeling to it!!
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What are the odds ...
davidr69 28th Feb 2011
that MS is connected to this to make the only purchasable console the XBox?
@davidr69
I think the Doj should investigate M$ dealings with LG since 2007. That patent might have been sold to LG by M$ for the purpose of sueing the competition.
@Linux Geek

As much as I dislike MS - this would be quite reasonable, but strange.

MS has the resources to fight the competition on their own - so if they owned the patent then they could have sued on their own.

It is also quite usual to buy a patent for the purposes of fighting it to get the royalties.

If you invent something you have the right to protect what you have invented and registered. It takes money and time and brains to develop technology - somehow you would want to get some return on that.
@richardw66

Actually, I think it could be feasible. It's about more than just building the legal framework for a suit. Being a patent troll is bad PR. Compare the reputations of Oracle and Google, for instance.
@davidr69

doubt it, plus the Wii is still around
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Re: What are the odds...
EnKrptyed 28th Feb 2011
@KBot My thoughts exactly, wonder if someone has "monopoly" on the brain... @davidr69
? lol
@KBot
The what? Never heard of em... maybe you should check the sales charts over the last year... :P
@davidr69 I give it a 0.0000000714%chance of that being the case.
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@Scubajrr I love statistics... and thats a really nice one
@Scubajrr Can you be sure that there is not a motive for Microsoft to direct their lawyers to help LG? Even if the lawsuit fails to stop Sony from selling Playstation 3s, reducing their sales for a few month, or years, could help convince developers to defect and bring their PS 3 exclusives to the xbox.
@Scubajrr It does fit though. PS3 sales have really picked up and XBox slacked off over the last couple of months leading to Christmas 2010... the Kinect changed the picture, but slightly.
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@davidr69
To be honest, Fish & Richardson is on retainer with Microsoft. Does this men Microsoft is involved? Maybe, but it could be a coincidence. Not that Microsoft would use a Proxy to sue the competition. But Microsoft does have something to gain, if Sony is not allowed to sell Playstation 3s. But it could be a coincidence.
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No bet... I want to keep my money.
crave420fubar@... 1st Mar 2011
After you mention it it does sound like an MS tactic. Juck technology that ends up on top and why?... because they are the biggest bastards.
I love it when the big boys start suing each other - lets not forget that Sony dont have snow white hands and are constantly trying to restrict what owners can do with their expensive boxes. Now if the film and music industry could start suing each other maybe consumers will get a break!
@cymru999

I wouldn't be POd if all LG was doing was suing Sony, but they're confiscating PS3 consoles WTF! I don't even live in europe and this is pi$$ing me off
@cymru999
>>Now if the film and music industry could start suing each other maybe consumers will get a break!
that would be really nice. happy
I believe that LG was likely in discussions with Sony for some time over this, and Sony wouldn't pay up or pay enough, so LG has to up the anty by having PS3's seized. Sony has no problem charging fees to use Blue Ray technology, but doesn't want to pay others when they use their technology, screw Sony. Just like when they refused to include rumble in the original contollers because they refused to the company that developed the technology; funny that MS had no problem doing so and still charged the same price for their controllers as did Sony for their original controller, and now Sony charges $5.00 more for rumble, screw Sony!
@wthilo@?
I believe the issue was that Microsoft bought controlling interest in the company Sony was seeking a license from. At which point the license fee went up considerably. So in defiance Sony did not include the rumble feature, I believe this issue has since been resolved.
@wthilo@... This almost certainly bang on. This sort of tactic is often used to get the attention of the other side in negotiations. You can be quite sure that this move has, in fact, gotten Sony's attention. Think of it as a wakeup call. Also, there was definitely a court judgment in favour of LG which allowed them to get this injunction. Sony may not have been taking the court judgment sufficiently seriously for LG's tastes.
Funny how $ony quite happily sold millions of PS1s on the back of blatant piracy, closed various retailers in the far-east (LIK-Sang amongst others) for selling PS2s into Europe, looks like it's gone full circle.
LG could apply for a court order to have the consoles destroyed.

I used to like LG. But now...

I used to like Sony. In the early 70's I had 2 reel to reel tape decks and a cassette deck plus 2 stereo mixers and 8 mikes($150 ea).
But when they but a root-kit in my computer when I watch one of their movies that I got for my grand kids...
Well a lot of supposition and rumors that have dragged Microsoft into the argument and painted LG as the bad guy. Have any of you ever considered that maybe Sony is really at fault here and is trying to use technology without paying for it. Sony may have invented BlueRay but LG was the one who made it possible to play in a console or a computer. Sony's new PS3 incorporates the LG technology which they have not liscenced. Sony was an honest company maybe 30 years ago but since then they have burned consumers, stolen technology from others and more or less acted like a bully. No LG did not wait five years to sue, its only the newest PS3's that have BlueRay and LG's technology, they are lucky LG could have stopped all shipments worldwide if they wished.
@Rndmacts The Playstation 3 was launched in November of 2006, which is close to 5 years ago. So if LG had a patent on this technology, why wait almost 5 years to file suit? Reading throughout the patents half of them were applied for after 2007, so prior art can be shown. The other ones are vague, and can be applied to any disk reading device (CD ROM, DVD, etc). This suit should not even pass the smell test, as it reeks of Patent trolling, wait a few years till the product sells then sue.

As for the Microsoft angle you might want to read this
Washington, D.C., June 2, 2010 ? Laura R. Braden, an associate at Fish & Richardson, has received the first annual Microsoft LCA Law Firm Associate Award, which was among five awards presented to legal professionals who have made key contributions to the company.

http://www.fr.com/microsoftaward/ (right from the Law Firms webpage)
@Rick_K
just a small note here, incase you missed what you were replying to, the LG technology was added in the "new" model of the PS3 and was not used in the original, it improved the efficiency of the BluRay system so that Sony could use the full potential of BluRay for video gaming.

I am guessing that if you do some extra research you will find the LG technology did not appear until after the PS3 slim launched...
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@aiellenon
I didnt notice that part. Given that there is no real noticeable difference in the Blu Ray play between the two consoles, the end users may not see that. Still this looks like a proxy suit to harm the competition. After reading the individual patents (in the US case anyway), these patent could extend to any disk based device. So why not go after all Sony Blu Ray products? I am sure that their Bu Ray players all use the same technology, as Sony would use the same drive in multiple devices (for economic reasons).
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Re: M$ and LG
briank@... 28th Feb 2011
M$ *gave* the Microsoft Money product and customers at one point to Novell, just so it could take a chance at buying Intuit. Talk about willingness to stab your own customers, the sake of making more money. Don't recall if the SEC finally nixed the purchase, or if one of them pulled out.

I would not put it past M$ to help bring down competitors, through "legal means."
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"Only harming gamers..."
mnemennth 28th Feb 2011
Are you REALLY arguing that this will HURT gamers? REALLY? 5 years after the release of a device whose sole purpose is to waste the years of your life where you should be becoming SOMETHING? If you don't have one by now, you're not a GAMER. If yours dies and you can't get one to replace it and you have to... I dunno... go outside and play some football or shoot some hoops or god forbid, go meet with REAL PEOPLE face to face... (OMG... THE HORROR) Do you really think you've been HARMED?

Jeez... frakking infants.

mnem
*Reporting live , from the ARE YOU FREAKING SERIOUS? side of the news*
sony should just buy lg and close them up .. they have enough cash i should think
Naahhh... Samsung should buy them both and make them sit in the corner. wink

mnem
Time for a redneck timeout...

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