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Hardware 2.0

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Extreme PCs and homebrew systems are here to stay

By | March 9, 2009, 3:06pm PDT

Summary: Jason Perlow believes that the days of the extreme PC and homebrew systems are over. I disagree.

Jason Perlow believes that the days of the extreme PC and homebrew systems are over. I disagree.

First, let’s consider extreme PCs. Jason seems to think that extreme PCs are all $16,000 systems. These aren’t extreme PCs, these are super extreme monster PCs. The market for these systems is (and always has been) tiny and the companies that build them normally use them as little more than Wow-packed PR tools. Sure, there are a small number of people who have more money than sense and will pay stupid money for something, but what’s new about that.

Do people actually buy these systems? Sure they do. I wouldn’t, but that’s not the point. To some folks spending ten thousand on a PC (or something completely left field) is peanuts. It’s like you or I going out to buy gum. Swiss watch companies, German and Italian car manufacturers and yacht builders the world over have relied on people willing to pay over the odds for things for decades. If someone wants to spend vast sums of money on something, that’s their lookout.

Extreme PCs don’t cost $15,000+. In fact, $1,500 buys you a pretty amazing PC, while $2,500 to $4,500 buys you a real extreme system. That might sound like a lot, but Apple’s Mac Pro fits comfortably into that price bracket, and with a few clicks of a mouse you can push the price of even the Mac Pro up to a whopping $15,000 - and remember that this is a system based around two 2.93GHz Xeon processors and 32GB of RAM. Add a couple of 30″ flat panels and some software and you have a machine that’ll set you back nearly $20,000. High-end hardware has always cost a lot of money. Your money buys you more nowadays, but there’s always room to spend more.

But what about home-built homebrew PCs? Are they on the way out? No way. While some people are happy with an off-the-shelf PC, there are people who aren’t willing to compromise on anything and want total control over everything that goes into their PC. These people aren’t willing to pass up the responsibility of putting together a PC that works to a third party. It’s not an issue of price, but of pride in building the exact system to fit their needs.

And then you have the extreme homebrew PC. There are huge communities of overclockers and modders out there spending small fortunes squeezing a few extra frames per second or a few extra Folding@Home points from their systems. Again, there has always been people willing to spend money to outdo one another.

Extreme PCs and homebrew systems are here to stay.

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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Wrong Market
notsofast 16th Apr 2009
Jason, do you play games? Probably not. You don't get a decent gaming rig from costco. Until very recently, the video card alone would have set you back at least 200 dollars.

If all you can afford is $600.00 and a year ago you'd have bought a $1500 pc, then you'd clearly be better off spending $600 on system upgrades.

Any PC that uses socket 775 and DDR2 can easilly be brought up to date for less than that $600.00 system you'd buy.

I've seen 4GB of ram for under $30.00.
A new E8400 can be found for $100.00 - $130.00
Mid-range GPU $200.00.
Uppper end (not the top-o-the-line) for 200-300.

For less than your $600, you've just replaced most of the PC with new/faster parts that make it BETTER that the POS you'd buy at costco (and it is a POS if you're looking to game...which is the ONLY REASON to buy a $1500 desktop unit).

Oh and since I have some extra cash, maybe I could buy another HD for the heck of it. I think I've seen Terabyte drives for around $100.00.....after tax.

Sorry, but your system costs as much or more and every single part in it will be inferior to what I can build.
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Extreme vs Homebrew
kronj 9th Mar 2009
Why would hard economic times push enthusiasts to STOP building their
own computers? I just built an HTPC for ~$800 and modestly overclocked
it in order to get a little more juice. It's the first time I've built a
computer, but it was satisfying and affordable, and even though people
who build it themselves are the minority, I agree that we're probably
here to stay. And we're not crazy people who want $16,000 machines,
we just like computers.
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Agree!
pdeenoo 12th Mar 2009
I believe hard economic times will push more people to consider homebrew-( that exclude the extreme builders of systems worth more than 2-3k).
I am on my 4th build( all of them build during boom time)- and i was impressed how much saving i made.I remember my coworker bought an XPS from Dell 2 yrs ago and paid close to $3000 and i built a better system for $800 and change. I dont see why in this recession days...people should throw away money to the retailers. my 2 cents.
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The indoctrination runs deep
frgough 9th Mar 2009
"Sure, there are a small number of people who have more
money than sense and will pay stupid money for
something, but what?s new about that."

If they want it and can afford it, it's neither stupid, nor
nonsensical. It's simply a transaction.

The idea that someone is stupid or nonsensical because
they spend money differently than you is a mild
manifestation of the class envy that has gotten us into our
current economic mess.
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"Class Envy" LOLOL
jacarter3 10th Mar 2009
I don't envy these people anymore than the gentry driving an $80k BMW the same 5 mile commute that I have to get to work over the causeway to the main land. I just realize that they the privileged and get right out of their way as before they can even tail-gate my $5k '97 Nissan pickup. They deserve our support and respect and most certainly should never need to pay taxes like I do. After all they earned these privileges and I should just shut up and be glad I can work 50-60 hours a week to keep my job working for them.
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Re Class Envy LOLOL
Col Mustard 10th Mar 2009
I do not envy those people either. However, they do pay most of the taxes; don't take that away form them.
i dont think you have to have more money than brains to build a homebrew... i have been doing homebrew since i was 12... and all my computer run stock.. i dont overclock... there will always tech people
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My next system...
sgtgary@... 9th Mar 2009
My next box will absolutely be a homebrew high-end gaming box! I'm tired of buying the pre-configured stuff from Dell that can't keep up with the newest software so next time, I'm building myself one (rather than building everyone else's box).
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Homebrew
mtgarden 10th Mar 2009
saves me money. SO, yeah, I *usually* go homebrew. At the end of the day cost is my deciding factor between homebrew and off the shelf. But, sounds like Perlow does homebrew whenever he upgrades and tweaks the system the hardware on his systems.... Or am I missing something?
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I agree
raphael.munoz@... 10th Mar 2009
That?s the point
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Contributr
Capital Expenditure
jperlow 10th Mar 2009
"In fact, $1,500 buys you a pretty amazing PC, while $2,500 to $4,500 buys you a real extreme system."

Which nobody in their right mind is spending right now. Frankly, nobody is spending $600 per computer at Costco or Sam's Club either. That's the state our economy is now in, Adrian.
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nobody?
doh123 10th Mar 2009
thats a bit overstating to say nobody is even buying $600 on
computers... maybe less than there was a year or more ago, but there's
still many many many... the "recession" isn't being as rough to everyone
as some people try to make out.
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Contributr
Reseller channel inventory
jperlow 10th Mar 2009
Is massive. Its much bigger than it should be. "Nobody" is figurative. But certainly times are bad enough that even the $600 rigs are not moving at the volumes that they should, not even a fraction of where they should be.
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Nobody?
provincialplace@... 10th Mar 2009
The economy is crumbling in part because the news media keeps using these extreme words. Hey folks even argue that North American cars don't sell and nobody wants them. At least 5 million cars will be made in US and Canada this year. That is less than 7 million but still a lot more than "NOBODY" Be responsible, a lot of gullible people believe you!
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re rseller lchannel inventory
Col Mustard 10th Mar 2009
Since (according to you) nobody is buying new stuff it would seem to lend weight to the homebrew solution. Homebrew comps will go away becaue they make no sense not because of the economy.
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that's not true, Jason
nancyjones36507@... 10th Mar 2009
Only people who ARE still in their right mind
are spending that kind of money on computers.
THe ones who can't spend that kind of money on
something they can actually use, they are not
the sane ones, they're the broke ones. Folks
like me who aren't overextended on credit,
we're spending exactly the same way we were
spending a year ago. We may be spending a
little more as retailers get more desperate and
prices get better. So if I don't spend $660 on
a computer, it's not the economy, stupid, it's
monetary sanity.
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Well said!
914four 16th Mar 2009
(nt)
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Sorry But your WRONG
JEFFSGTP 10th Mar 2009
Maybe "You" cant afford to spend $600+ on a PC, but I just finished a build that cost around $650, thats really not that much when your looking at computers...checked the price of a good laptop lately?...and before anyone gripes at me for spending what I did, I paid a Credit Card completely off...this was the money I had left over from that...you need to check your facts before saying "Frankly nobody is spending $600per computer...." Oh and for the record...I don't make tons of money, I make Sub 45K/year...its all in how you manage your finances and budget.
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Wait a minute
DiZastur 10th Mar 2009
So you're saying people aren't buying budget OEM's either? Why isn't the topic "death of computer sales"?

Truth is, sales of nearly everything is down.
I'm not sure what a lagging economy has to do with any of this.

I know lots of people who build their own just as I do and we are always going to. Reason being, we get exactly what we want and can do so at a reasonable price.

Just because you feel it's cheap enough and will save you some time having someone else assemble your system for you doesn't lead to homebrewing=dead.

I'm typing this on a system I built at the office for $520 CDN, including XP Pro. It's rock solid, with cheap, quality parts I handpicked and has operated for 6 months without a single hitch. In fact, all of the time I wear my tech hat at work is spent troubleshooting these bloody Dell stations. They're a PITA and are all maxed out. I intend to replace those other overpriced PoS propriety systems in the office with quality, budget conscious, upgradeable solutions.
0 Votes
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...
Grayson Peddie 11th Mar 2009
0 Votes
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Wrong Market
notsofast 16th Apr 2009
Jason, do you play games? Probably not. You don't get a decent gaming rig from costco. Until very recently, the video card alone would have set you back at least 200 dollars.

If all you can afford is $600.00 and a year ago you'd have bought a $1500 pc, then you'd clearly be better off spending $600 on system upgrades.

Any PC that uses socket 775 and DDR2 can easilly be brought up to date for less than that $600.00 system you'd buy.

I've seen 4GB of ram for under $30.00.
A new E8400 can be found for $100.00 - $130.00
Mid-range GPU $200.00.
Uppper end (not the top-o-the-line) for 200-300.

For less than your $600, you've just replaced most of the PC with new/faster parts that make it BETTER that the POS you'd buy at costco (and it is a POS if you're looking to game...which is the ONLY REASON to buy a $1500 desktop unit).

Oh and since I have some extra cash, maybe I could buy another HD for the heck of it. I think I've seen Terabyte drives for around $100.00.....after tax.

Sorry, but your system costs as much or more and every single part in it will be inferior to what I can build.
0 Votes
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Why Wouldn't You
Tim Patterson 10th Mar 2009
If you can, you are really better off building your own boxes.

If you find a good source you can get a much better box for your money. But most importantly you get to choose the components you want and (with AMD especially) you get an easy upgrade path.

It's far easier to do now than when I built my 486 15 years ago. (Remember all of the jumpers which had to be set?)

It's very easy to do. You get to choose your hardware and it's a better value.
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RE: Why Wouldn't You
trybble1 10th Mar 2009
I built every PC I had up until last summer. It was time to retool, but instead I went the refurb route from buy.com . I picked up a $900 (AMD X2 2.8ghz 3gb 400gb etc) box for less than half price delivered to my door, and it's worked flawlessly ever since. I will need to add a video card if I want to run 2 monitors, but I would have had to do that anyway. Buying refurb is a good jumping in point nowadays, even more bang for your buck the Sams or CostCo.
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Been there, done that, now buy boxed systems
No_Ax_to_Grind 10th Mar 2009
Just not worth the time and effort any more.
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Re; been there, done that now buy boxed
Col Mustard 10th Mar 2009
Often you can get a pre-buuilt system for less than you can build it yourself. If however, you allready have a computer it may only require a new video card or an added hard drive or cpu to bring it up to desired performance. Even changing the motherboard and cpu usually allows you to keep the rest of the box and thus you save considerable money.
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I'm a homebrewer and will always be
eggmanbubbagee@... 10th Mar 2009
Since 93. Dozens of PCs for me family and friends over the years. The allure of overclocking, tweakable BIOS, and easy upgradability will keep me going for years, It's also the best way to stray on top of trends and keep your hardware chops sharp - no substitute for hands on - it's also fun.

I see no reason to believe that homebrews will suffer any more than brand PCs.

I used to be an 'extreme' builder, complete with phase-change coolers costing hundreds of dollars just to cool the CPU to -32 C and hundreds more per year to run the compressor, hard voltage mods, and all the rest - now those days are over for me but they ended long before the current crisis.
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Tempted, but still home building
spleendamage 12th Mar 2009
The package deals you can get are pretty insane
nowadays. In some cases, you can get the whole
PC for just barely more than what a retail
Windows OS would cost.

But at this point I am still custom building my
machines. I like knowing that every part is one
I have chosen by researching it, conforms to a
standard footprint, is replaceable and/or
upgradeable.

I get what I want in the machine and none of
what I don't (bloatware).
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I will alwase build my own box and for that fact I
feel I do get more bang for my buck playing that way.
if I want mac I get mac I want windows I get windows I
want a 400$ card I get that.
as a home brewer I get the choice of what were and how
I am not truly "stuck" and have to get a foundation
and build form that I MAKE my foundation and build my
Rig as I please (thank god there is no rule for a PC
like really building a house ...Id be screwed lol)

UNHOLYTECH

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Building computers
syhprum1@... 10th Mar 2009
25 years ago I built what amounts to little more than a video card out of plug in chips and wire to display weather pictures.
I resent people talking about 'building computers' when all they do is plug a few cards into a motherboard.
I have putting together my own systems for many years now. I choose to do it because I can build a machine with the hardware I want and only the software I want. I get a much more flexible and reliable system. When I build a system, I try to "future proof" as much as possible by using what I believe to be good components that are usually among the highest speed and/or capacity available. I frequently set up computers for people who buy package systems from the local electronics and/or department store - the amount of unnecessary software pre-installed on those machines really kills the performance. Overclocking is frequently impossible on such machines because of manufacturer limited "simpleton" bios settings. Power supplies on those same machines are often marginal, optical drives are cheap units. There are good quality machines available from the big manufacturers, but usually at quite a price premium. The DIY market will be alive and well for a long time to come!
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It is fun to built your own machine!!!
emmerc@... 10th Mar 2009
I also have been building my own PC desktop since about 10 years ago. Yes, that way you will put in it what you wish and what you need as far as your pocked allows you. The other thing is that I really enjoy the building process and also any machine that lands in my hands I open it right away and try to upgrade it up to its -and my pocket's reasonable limits-. Nowadays things have changed, mobility is very important today. Well, after ten machines (desktops, laptops, pocket pc, etc) in ten years, I have landed with two laptops (one 6 months old, one 5 years old but working very well with Ubuntu), an Asus eee pc 900 doing very well with Ubuntu! and a Palm Treo. You can't do that much to upgrade laptops but I think I have the right hardware to work at least the next two or three years. Maybe in that time I will be able to do some replacing.
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I build two computers.
Grayson Peddie 11th Mar 2009
One for server and one for HTPC.

My server has AMD Sempron but I'm planning to upgrade to
AMD 5050e just to get hardware virtualization support.
That way, I can put in a 64-bit operating system in a
virtual machine (Windows Web Server 2008 trail for
evaulating for home automation use).
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
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has anyone sought objective evidence . . .?
eggmanbubbagee@... 12th Mar 2009
to answer this question? Sales at Newegg of motherboards for example. It would seem this statistic alone would pretty closely follow the trend. It has been as cheap or cheaper to buy a brand PC than to build your own for a very long time now, this is not a new development. I still build my own because I like to overclock and to have my choice of video card in there for gaming. I could see how the move to gaming consoles and away from PC gaming could affect this trend though. My son games on the 360 and even though he is a very serious PC tech he sees no need to upgrade his two year old self-built PC.
I still game on the PC so I did upgrade my own.
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Have to disagree~
xXSpeedzXx 12th Mar 2009
Anyone can build a customized PC for less than a Brand Name OEM. O sure an off the shelf $499 computer is pretty hard to beat in price, but that machine is fairly limited in its ability, as you are not going to be playing games on that machine, or do much other than surf the net. But even Barebone kits that are comparable run for around $200. And if all you need is a computer for surfing, photo's, word processing, Ubuntu is a pretty good OS choice to do these things with out spending an addition $200 on and OS.

I often go to places like Dell, HP, IBM, and other OEM manufactures, and do a build to see what they will charge me for a build that is suited to what I want, and then I build a custom one using newegg and tigerdirect, and almost always I can build the same machine for half the money.

This is possible because if you buy a computer from dell or others they are going to nail you heavily on upgrades. Take ram. You can buy right now 1GB chips for under $30, buy the same ram from dell, and they nail you 2x as much. They also nail you for a service plan and extended warranty, which most parts purchased from Tiger or Newegg come with manufacturer warranties. So that computer from dell or best buy ends up costing you more in the end than building your own.

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