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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes
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Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9

By | March 28, 2011, 6:22am PDT

Summary: According to data gathered by StatCounter and NetApplications, global usage share of Firefox 4 is far exceeding that of Internet Explorer 9.

According to data gathered by StatCounter and NetApplications, global usage share of Firefox 4 is far exceeding that of Internet Explorer 9.

Asa Dotzler, Mozilla Director of Community Development, has taken the data made available by StatCounter and NetApplications and created this chart:

Dotzler puts this success down to word of mouth trumping a massive marketing campaign:

As you can see from the chart, Firefox 4’s release kicked off with considerably more excitement and momentum. IE 9’s release, which was backed by one of Microsoft’s biggest launch marketing campaigns in recent history, had a comparatively weak showing.

So what explains this disparity? It’s you all. It’s every one of you that downloaded Firefox 4, found it to be awesome, and told all of your friends and family about it. No ad campaign from Microsoft can top that. Keep spreading the word. Firefox answers to no one but you!

It’s important to bear one thing in mind though. Mozilla pushed Firefox 4 to all users via software update while Microsoft has only so far offered IE9 to those running the beta or RC. All other users have had to seek out the download themselves. Once Microsoft starts to push IE9 via Windows Update to all (no date for this has been announced yet) then I expect that usage share numbers will change. This is a time period that Mozilla should take advantage of.[CORRECTION: Firefox has not begun pushing Firefox 4 via software update to existing users either except to those running the beta and RC.]

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Topics

Mozilla Firefox, Microsoft Internet Explorer 9, Adrian Kingsley-Hughes, Firefox 4 Usage, Web Browsers, Internet

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
karendavis 29th Oct
Ha I remember Netscape around 12 years ago. I can't stand using IE though, so slow and buggy. Will always use Firefox or Opera.
View in thread
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FireIE
statuskwo5 28th Mar 2011
I use both so whoo-hoo!
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
bobiroc 28th Mar 2011
@statuskwo5

Me too.
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By the way, I did not get any software update "push" from FF, so Andrian is
DeRSSS Updated - 28th Mar 2011
@bobiroc: ... wrong about it.

I still use FF3.6, and I even restarted the browser couple of times with no any FF4 push. After FF4 was released I only was pushed with 3.6.16 update, but nothing about FF4.

So these figures from Mozilla are quire honest for comparison. (I will wait for v4.01 or something before updating to FF4)
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
Viper589 28th Mar 2011
@bobiroc
The other thing to note here is that MicroSoft hasnt pushed out IE9 through windows update if they had then its usage would have already outpaced firefox
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
bobiroc 28th Mar 2011
@denisrs

FF4 was not pushed out but it was advertised within the browser if you left the default FF start page up. Of if you applied the update to 3.6.x it was advertised there as well.

Not saying that is wrong but it was advertised within the FF 3.6 browser which is probably a contributing factor to it's downloads.

Maybe Microsoft will offer IE9 as an optional download in Microsoft update soon which is the same thing as advertising it as available within themselves.
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
Hasam1991 28th Mar 2011
@statuskwo5
Not me, I removed IE completely from Control Panel..
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
fatman65535 28th Mar 2011
@Hasam1991

I wish I could use IE9; but it does not work on my platform!!!! (Natty Narwhal)
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
Viper589 28th Mar 2011
@Hasam1991

exactly how did you do that thought you cant do that and as for fatman dude no one cares go away troll
  • Flagged
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
Rick_K 3rd Apr 2011
@Hasam1991
Not me, I removed IE completely from Control Panel..
It may say remove, but it only hides access to IE. Currently there is no way to completely remove IE from any system that runs Windows.
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
daikon Updated - 28th Mar 2011
Fireox 4, is beautiful, stylish, fast, and works brilliantly.

Hooah!
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
x I'm tc 28th Mar 2011
@daikon

Yup, it's awesome.

But then again, so is IE9.
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Not to mention it works on XP
John Zern 28th Mar 2011
@daikon
where IE9 won't, so it really isn't any big surprise.
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
Return_of_the_jedi Updated - 28th Mar 2011
@John Zern

Are you blaming Mozilla for that. Or that's just another excuse for M$?
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
bobiroc 28th Mar 2011
@John Zern

It sure does but is not nearly as fast on XP like FF4 and IE9 is on Windows 7. FF4 on XP looks to be mostly a UI change on XP.

I don't use IE9 at work yet because we have a few systems that have Web access interfaces with some old Active-X settings that do not like IE9. We usually wait about 6 months anyway before rolling out a new browser globally as most businesses and schools do so that it can be evaluated first.
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Were you born ignorant
John Zern Updated - 28th Mar 2011
@Return_of_the_jedi, or was it a conscious choice you made?

All I did was point out was that it's not surprising as only Windows 7 users can install IE9, while XP/Win7 users can download firefox, so a much larger base onto which Firefox can be used.

Would you download IE9 if you're using Windows XP?

So how did that become "blaming Mozilla", or "making an excuse fo MS"?

Or were you in such a rush to evangelize your platform of choice that you didn't stop to think about the words coming out of you mouth?
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
DNSB 28th Mar 2011
@bobiroc

Testing FF 4 on identical hardware for XP and Windows 7 (running in virtual machines on the same host), I did not see any slowdown between the XP and Windows 7 installs. The speed advantages compared to FF 3.6.15 running in the same virtual machines were very noticeable for both OSs.

I'm tempted to suggest that running FF 4 on a Celeron in your old XP laptop compared to FF 4 on a mutlicore desktop running Windows 7 is not a valid comparison.
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
bobiroc 28th Mar 2011
@DNSB

My comparison tests (yours may vary) were done on the same exact hardware. Dell Optiplex 740 (Dual core AMD) with 3GB ram. One running XP 32bit and the other running Windows 7 32bit.

In general I find anything on XP with a Multi-Core processor to run slower than it would under Windows 7 with the same hardware, not just the browser. FF4 is faster than IE8 under XP and IE8 is more noticeably faster under Windows 7 than under XP too.
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
james.vandamme 29th Mar 2011
@John Zern Well, if the choice is XP or IE9, I choose....NEITHER. "No Gates, no Windows..."
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
Loverock Davidson 28th Mar 2011
I like Firefox but Mozilla is starting to get a bit big headed. They don't have room to brag considering it took them a good 2 years to release FF4. Also, FF4 is available on all platforms, Microsoft IE is available on Vista and Windows 7. I wouldn't look too much into these stats.
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
Bookmark71 28th Mar 2011
@Loverock Davidson

Firefox is enabling users to stay with XP even longer. With IE9, Microsoft is trying to get users off of XP for their own good. It will soon be ending support and they want an easy transition. Continuing to support XP just hurts the end user.
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RE: Continuing to support XP just hurts the end user.
bobiroc 28th Mar 2011
@Bookmark71

I agree and many of the advancements with IE9 like the GPU acceleration and integrated security do not work well or at all with XP anyway so it offers little advantage. Just like FF4 performs better and takes advantage of the added security of Windows Vista and Windows 7 has to offer.
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GPU use with Windows XP
DNSB 28th Mar 2011
@bobiroc

Not sure about nVidia but ATI graphics cards allow the same access to the GPU under Windows XP as under Windows 7. You might want to check the Folding At Home FAQs. FAH can and does make use of the GPU under Windows XP with many newer ATI/nVidia cards though the latest GPU2 flavour has dropped support for the older ATI 1xxx cards that GPU1 supported.

As for your repeated claim that FF 4 performs better under Windows 7, that does not match well with my test results.
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
CaptOska 29th Mar 2011
@Loverock Davidson
Mozilla is getting a bit big headed? Yah right! If ever a company was constructed of unwarranted self importance, that company is named Microsoft.
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
Cylon Centurion 28th Mar 2011
I thought IE9 was to be pushed out in the coming days? I was sure I sawe a set date before the end of the month.
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
bobiroc 28th Mar 2011
@Cylon Centurion 0005

I will have to watch my WSUS server then because I do not want that pushed out globally on my work network yet. I have a few little quirks with some web access technologies that we use internally that do not like IE9 so much.
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
Cylon Centurion 28th Mar 2011
@bobiroc

Microsoft has a blocker toolkit available on the Microsoft Download Center. Curious that it is an EXE rather than an MSI.
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I see no reason to even try IE
Economister 28th Mar 2011
I was using Netscape way back when and do not think much of all of MS's illegal and dirty deeds to dominate the browser market back then and for MANY years after. I am now perfectly happy with FF and Chrome.

MS does not deserve to have me as an IE user. Act have consequences in my world. MS can take their browser and stick it where the "sun don't shine".
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
bobiroc 28th Mar 2011
@Economister

Lets go back to the Netscape model and start charging for browser upgrades then. Did you like paying for a Internet Browser too? Or did you just feel like you had to spread your hate?
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You're still paying for IE
Zogg 28th Mar 2011
@bobiroc
You might not see a separate bill of sale because it's all bundled in the cost of Windows, but you paid for it nothwithstanding.
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
bobiroc 28th Mar 2011
@Zogg

Yes but back during the Netscape vs IE war you got Netscape bundled with a few dialup ISP discs maybe but if you wanted an upgrade you had to pay for it.

I am not saying Microsoft did not play a few sneaky tricks back at that time because they did but they also felt that the internet was a basic function of using a computer and included a browser because of that. Sure it is part of the cost of Windows but upgrades are free too.

Also when IE was available for MacOS and never included with the OS it was always a free download until it was pulled completely.

So while Microsoft may have thrown a few low blows with IE they were a major reason that browsers are free today.
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Weird - because I NEVER paid for Netscape Navigator back in 1998
Zogg 28th Mar 2011
@bobiroc
I clearly remember just downloading it.

"I am not saying Microsoft did not play a few sneaky tricks back at that time because they did but they also felt that the internet was a basic function of using a computer and included a browser because of that."

You're wearing the rose-tinted spectacles here. MS integrated IE into Windows to **** up Netscape and to leverage control of Web standards. I sincerely doubt that concern for the user was anything more than mere lip-service.
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Keep soft-pedaling it, @bobroc
LTV10 28th Mar 2011
I am not saying Microsoft did not play a few sneaky tricks back at that time because they did but they also felt that the internet was a basic function of using a computer and included a browser because of that.

Because that's what you're doing here. Making excuses for sleazy behavior

I hope we go to the ballot system like Europe someday instead of M$ arrogantly assuming everybody wants IE. I really do.
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RE: because I NEVER paid for Netscape Navigator back in 1998
bobiroc 28th Mar 2011
@Zogg

Go back a few more years before IE was a default part of Windows and I distinctly remember seeing Netscape discs for sale for I think $20 - $25. By Windows 98 Netscape lost the "Pay for the Browser" war. They tried bundling it with AOL and Compuserve and other dial-up ISP discs for a while too.
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
bobiroc 28th Mar 2011
@LTV10

"I hope we go to the ballot system like Europe someday instead of M$ arrogantly assuming everybody wants IE. I really do."

No reason to be rude to me but you are just seeing it from your side of the coin which is filled with you hate Microsoft. That is fine but the fact remains that internet browsing back then was becoming a primary function of a computer and having software to be able to browse that internet should be included.

As far as a ballot box goes that would be fine too as long as all other Operating system makers would have to do the same in the interest of being fair. People like you are just making a big deal out of nothing because if you do not like IE then do not use it. Simple as that.

To me offering a ballot box to choose a browser just offers another layer of confusion to the end user which most of them really only care that they can browse the internet and their pages work and not what browser they use. As long as MacOS only gives you their own browser Safari and various forms of Linux include Firefox (or some other browser) then it is no different really, is it? After all they just want go give the tools so that the OS can be used right out of the box for basic functions of computing like browsing the internet.

If they do not like IE then they use it to download the browser of their choice and move on with their lives. You on the other hand are just a very angry individual just here to spread hate at anyone that does not agree with you and your narrow minded views of the technology world. I truly pity you and hope that you seek professional help.

Have a nice day!
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Then it was an awfully large coincidence that we're seeing...
ye 28th Mar 2011
@Zogg: You're wearing the rose-tinted spectacles here. MS integrated IE into Windows to **** up Netscape and to leverage control of Web standards. I sincerely doubt that concern for the user was anything more than mere lip-service.

...a push to web based computing. Too much of a coincidence if you ask me. IMO Bill Gates correctly viewed the web as the future. Don't get me wrong: I also believe it was also done to take out a competitor but I don't believe that was the primary reason.
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Except that once Netscape was dead, MS forgot about IE.
Zogg Updated - 28th Mar 2011
@ye
IE6 was the zenith of MS's browser ambitions for 5 whole years, until the rise of Firefox forced it to release IE7. That's very strange behavior for a company that you would have us believe has been driving us into a Web-centric future all along.
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
LTV10 28th Mar 2011
No reason to be rude to me but you are just seeing it from your side of the coin which is filled with you hate Microsoft.

Absolutely. And with good reason. No apologies, there.

That is fine but the fact remains that internet browsing back then was becoming a primary function of a computer and having software to be able to browse that internet should be included.

No, I remember when they had to use an FTP client to download, which was a good solution back then. Before illegal bundling.

As far as a ballot box goes that would be fine too as long as all other Operating system makers would have to do the same in the interest of being fair.

False argument considering...

a) There isn't an IE version for Linux or Apple.
b) Neither one has the monopolistic marketshare M$ has.

People like you are just making a big deal out of nothing because if you do not like IE then do not use it. Simple as that.

Oh I have to use it at work. There's no avoiding that. Which also makes your point totally false.

To me offering a ballot box to choose a browser just offers another layer of confusion

No it doesn't considering Win7 already has a ballot system for the anti-virus. Why not one for the browser?

Nope, your feeble arguments still don't wash.

As long as MacOS only gives you their own browser Safari

Again, no IE for the Mac. Not to mention Apple doesn't have the marketshare M$ has.

M$ is in a unique position all by itself. That's the downside to pwning 90% of the desktop market out there.

and various forms of Linux include Firefox (or some other browser)

They already do, which just shows us your ignorance of Linux.

then it is no different really, is it?

Yes it is, for the reasons I said above.

You on the other hand are just a very angry individual just here to spread hate at anyone that does not agree with you and your narrow minded views of the technology world.

On the contrary, I'm angry at shills who come on here pretending to be one thing yet turn out to be something else. I don't like being lied to. That gets me angry.

Is that you, @bobroc? Are you really something else?

I truly pity you and hope that you seek professional help.

The tears are flowing down my cheeks with sadness, @bobroc. Please pray for me. Wish everything for me that you'd want for yourself. And then some... wink

Have a nice day!

How can I? You made me feel 'so bad' about myself that I have to go tell my mommy now.

(sob)

~

wink
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
bobiroc 28th Mar 2011
@LTV10

No, I remember when they had to use an FTP client to download, which was a good solution back then. Before illegal bundling.

Go ask the average home computer user and see how many even know what FTP is. See how many give the deer in a headlights look. Some do not even know what a browser is. Many people that have browsers like Safari or Chrome on their computer and it took over as default have no idea how it happened. It happened because of things like Apple update installing it or some 3rd party software automatically opting in for things like toolbars and chrome to be installed. They did sometimes notice the UI change but most of the time only care that their pages still work.

False argument considering...

a) There isn't an IE version for Linux or Apple.
b) Neither one has the monopolistic marketshare M$ has.

Oh so since MacOS and Linux have less marketshare they can just use what ever browser they want right? Gee that is not at all one sided and hateful towards a company you do not like. Despite what you and a few others say there are a great many people that enjoy and prefer to use Windows so just let them be and you can use whatever you want for your personal computing needs.

Oh I have to use it at work. There's no avoiding that. Which also makes your point totally false.

Well is the computer owned by your work? If so then that is their right. Many organizations use IE for compatibility and the ability to use Group Policy settings to make it more secure and keep users from changing settings that should not be changed. I have yet to see how that can be effectively done with other browsers.

"No it doesn't considering Win7 already has a ballot system for the anti-virus. Why not one for the browser?"

And history will show you that many people ignore the security alerts and let their OEM bundled Antivirus expire and never update it despite the many warnings. I still take in countless machines today that had the 3 month trial expire and have the customers confused on what to do about it. Start thinking like a computer novice for a change. I know that is hard for you to think outside your little bubble.

Again, no IE for the Mac. Not to mention Apple doesn't have the marketshare M$ has.

Doesn't change the fact that MacOS is still a competing operating system. It is not Microsoft's fault that Apple only offers it on their branded computers. Also the removal of IE from MacOS was not totally Microsoft's decision. Apple had a role in that too. You can keep making your marketshare arguments but they are irrelevant.

M$ is in a unique position all by itself. That's the downside to pwning 90% of the desktop market out there.

Again with the marketshare. You sound like a broken record. It is no secret that outside of MacOS you can install any other OS compatible with your system that you choose. You can even have computers ordered, built, or build yourself without an OS all together or some other OS. Or are you going to say that all those people that build their own computers are forced to use Windows too? Maybe some feel that way to play games or run the software they want to use but that is how it goes. You don't hear people complaining that they cannot get Apple's iSoftware on any other platform. Oh I forgot that is because Apple has less Marketshare so they are different and have their own set of rules enforced by trolls.

and various forms of Linux include Firefox (or some other browser)

They already do, which just shows us your ignorance of Linux.

Maybe some versions do but there are so many who can keep track. I don't remember seeing a ballot box when installing Ubuntu 9. It just had Firefox.

On the contrary, I'm angry at shills who come on here pretending to be one thing yet turn out to be something else. I don't like being lied to. That gets me angry.

Is that you, @bobroc? Are you really something else?

You are only lying to yourself based off your personal bias. So if you want to be angry be angry with yourself.

The tears are flowing down my cheeks with sadness, @bobroc. Please pray for me. Wish everything for me that you'd want for yourself. And then some... wink

Have a nice day!

How can I? You made me feel 'so bad' about myself that I have to go tell my mommy now.

Sorry I made you cry but the truth hurts sometimes. Maybe your mommy should tell you that instead of closeting you into a closed world.
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IE6 works fine for all kinds of web applications.
ye 28th Mar 2011
@Zogg: IE6 was the zenith of MS's browser ambitions for 5 whole years, until the rise of Firefox forced it to release IE7. That's very strange behavior for a company that you would have us believe has been driving us into a Web-centric future all along.

I don't see later versions being all that much better wrt web applications. Given that I don't really see this as a compelling counter argument to my previous post.
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Education day for @bobroc, pt. 1
LTV10 Updated - 28th Mar 2011
Go ask the average home computer user and see how many even know what FTP is. See how many give the deer in a headlights look. Some do not even know what a browser is.

And I didn't know what FTP was back in 1996 when I first encountered it. M$ was pretty detailed as to how you downloaded it to get to the internet. FTP is still a valid protocol to use.

Oh so since MacOS and Linux have less marketshare they can just use what ever browser they want right?

That's right. Since Linux is rarely sold, and Apple sells the whole Mac hardware plus software package, people already know ahead of time what they get. They've been doing it that way since 1977.

And Safari has been around long enough to where people know what it is. And if they don't then somebody nearby who uses an Apple can tell them. It's no great mystery of life.

Gee that is not at all one sided and hateful towards a company you do not like.

Well cry me a river. M$'s monopoly has turned out to be a double-edged sword, now hasnt it...

Despite what you and a few others say there are a great many people that enjoy and prefer to use Windows so just let them be and you can use whatever you want for your personal computing needs.

Well that's fine, @bobroc. But I still want to see more choice out there and if we can start with the browser, then maybe we can work our way from there so everybody has a level playing field.

Well is the computer owned by your work? If so then that is their right.

I never said they didn't. You stated I never use IE and I stated that was totally false. I never said anything about rights. So what. What does that have to do with anything?

And history will show you that many people ignore the security alerts and let their OEM bundled Antivirus expire and never update it despite the many warnings.

That doesn't matter in this context. What matters is there's already a ballot in existence in Win7 for anti-virus and for you to shed crocodile tears over a browser ballot is just plain ridiculous. Especially when there's already a precedent in Europe.

Many organizations use IE for compatibility and the ability to use Group Policy settings to make it more secure and keep users from changing settings that should not be changed. I have yet to see how that can be effectively done with other browsers.

Firefox 3.6 is already being used. And except for a few webpages that are pathetically IE dependent, it works well where we're at. It can be locked down if somebody takes the time to do so.
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Education day for @bobroc, pt. 2
LTV10 Updated - 28th Mar 2011
Start thinking like a computer novice for a change. I know that is hard for you to think outside your little bubble.

Oh I do. All the time I do. I've turned family members on to Firefox and they seem to have adjusted well to it.

Doesn't change the fact that MacOS is still a competing operating system. It is not Microsoft's fault that Apple only offers it on their branded computers.

And Apple has been selling it that way since 1977. It's no secret and the millions who have bought their products seem to have no problem with that.

Once again, do I have to repeat myself to you? Are you normally this dense or what?

Also the removal of IE from MacOS was not totally Microsoft's decision. Apple had a role in that too.

Care to cite that?

You can keep making your marketshare arguments but they are irrelevant.

Only because you say so and are in deep denial. You know that I'm right, here. It's tough for you to admit that. I understand. wink

Maybe some versions do but there are so many who can keep track. I don't remember seeing a ballot box when installing Ubuntu 9. It just had Firefox.

Because you didn't go into that package repository and look for them. They're right there if you want it. No need to go out to the unsafe internet and look for them.

Not to mention distros have no hand in the development of Firefox. They aren't bundled into the OS to the point that if you remove it, you can hose your machine.

You are only lying to yourself based off your personal bias. So if you want to be angry be angry with yourself.

Not at all. This is a great place to bash Micro$oft. If it bothers you so much, then why don't you hang out in one of those MVP forums or something. I'm sure they'll be glad to hear from you over there.

Sorry I made you cry but the truth hurts sometimes. Maybe your mommy should tell you that instead of closeting you into a closed world.

Mommiee...mommieee...whaaaa...whaaaa...

lol...
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Then you're blind, Ye. And cannot possibly be a Web developer, either.
Zogg Updated - 28th Mar 2011
"IE6 works fine... I don't see later versions being all that much better wrt web applications."

Really?!?!?!?! IE6 - buggy, slow, insecure and utterly broken wrt its support for Web standards; cursed and utterly reviled by Web developers all over the World. And you don't believe later versions are "all that much better" either?

Personally, I see that as an indictment of IEs 7, 8 and 9 more than anything else. And in the case of IE7, I would actually agree with you....

So if IE reflects MS's interest in Web development then the only possible conclusion is that MS hates Web development. Your notion of BillG as some kind of Web visionary is frankly laughable.
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Note where I said "Web Applications".
ye 28th Mar 2011
@Zogg: buggy, slow, insecure and utterly broken wrt its support for Web standards; cursed and utterly reviled by Web developers all over the World

I didn't say it was bug free, secure, and conformant with web standards. I said:

"I don't see later versions being all that much better wrt web applications."

Later versions may be more bug free, secure, and compliant with web standards. That does not change the fact IE 6 was great for web applications. Even if it was buggy, insecure, and forced web developers to be non-standards compliant.
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Then both you and MS must hold Web Developers in complete contempt.
Zogg 28th Mar 2011
@Ye
Web applications work in spite of IE, not because of it. They work because team of developers have torn their hair out finding ways to code around its bugs and pitfalls.

"Even if it was buggy, insecure, and forced web developers to be non-standards compliant."

IE6 didn't become reviled as a piece of unmitigated filth merely because it forced Web developers to be "non-standards compliant". Maybe these graphs will open your eyes:

http://humor.beecy.net/geeks/web-design/

http://giveupinternet.com/2009/01/04/breakdown-of-time-spent-on-web-development-thank-you-internet-explorer-chart/

The real crime here was that MS foisted IE upon the Internet and then abandoned its miserable carcass to rot, smugly confident that people would be forced to use it anyway because MS had destroyed its competition. These were criminal acts, not visionary ones.
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You keep arguing irrelevant points.
ye 28th Mar 2011
@Zogg: Web applications work in spite of IE, not because of it. They work because team of developers have torn their hair out finding ways to code around its bugs and pitfalls.

At the time in question they developed for IE, not inspite of it. That's why we see so many continuing to use IE 6.

The real crime here was that MS foisted IE upon the Internet and then abandoned its miserable carcass to rot, smugly confident that people would be forced to use it anyway because MS had destroyed its competition. These were criminal acts, not visionary ones.

Completely irrelevant.
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
Pete "athynz" Athens 28th Mar 2011
@LTV10 I hope we go to the ballot system like Europe someday instead of M$ arrogantly assuming everybody wants IE. I really do.

That ballot was one of the most idiotic things I have seen come out of the EU... My God man they were pandering to the willfully ignorant... you cannot tell me that there were NO downloadable alternatives available in the EU. You can't tell me that it was IE or nothing at all. You can't because it would be a lie.

That ballot came because the Opera folks whined and cried about no one using their browser. Tell me why Microsoft was singled out when Apple ALSO bundles a proprietary browser with their OS - Yeah, Apple's Mac OS comes with Safari as it's default browser. Where is the ballot box for Apple then? IF it was about giving the consumer choice there would have been a huge outcry for Apple to include such a ballot as well and yet only Microsoft is required to do so.
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Well @athynz
LTV10 29th Mar 2011
That ballot was one of the most idiotic things I have seen come out of the EU... My God man they were pandering to the willfully ignorant... you cannot tell me that there were NO downloadable alternatives available in the EU. You can't tell me that it was IE or nothing at all. You can't because it would be a lie.

Looks like more fear of change. More fear that the Redmond status quo is being threatened. If people were that 'unbelievably stupid' as you make them out to be, then they'll click on the big "e" at the ballot and your status quo will be maintained because everybody recognizes the IE icon logo, right?

You'd think... Unless... wink

Tell me why Microsoft was singled out when Apple ALSO bundles a proprietary browser with their OS

Because of marketshare. It's that simple. And Apple has even less of a marketshare in Europe than they do here in the US. Which makes them even less relevant over there.

And where's that version of IE9 for Apple anyway? Hmm? wink

The rest of what you had to say is repeated whining, that's all.
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Many fell that way about other browsers, Firefox included
John Zern 28th Mar 2011
@Economister
Isn't choice wonderful!
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So what
LTV10 28th Mar 2011
@John Zern
A ballot system is even better.
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Re: So What
bobiroc 28th Mar 2011
@LTV10

And more confusing to most end users that just want to get on their computer and use it instead of going through a list of choices of what browser they are going to use. Many of which that hardly know what a browser is in the first place.
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RE: Firefox 4 usage outpaces IE9
karendavis 29th Oct
Ha I remember Netscape around 12 years ago. I can't stand using IE though, so slow and buggy. Will always use Firefox or Opera.

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