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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Friday Rant - Why is most security software rubbish?

By | October 26, 2007, 6:37am PDT

Summary: When I’m setting up a new Windows-based PC, the part that I dread is when it’s time to install security software onto it. I just know that no matter how swift and powerful the system is, installing any kind of security suite onto it is going to kill performance. It’s a lot like buying a BMW M5 and then murdering the performance by attaching it to a trailer fill of concrete.

OK, it’s a Friday and that means one thing - Rant time!

When I’m setting up a new Windows-based PC, the part that I dread is when it’s time to install security software onto it.  I just know that no matter how swift and powerful the system is, installing any kind of security suite onto it is going to kill performance.  It’s a lot like buying a BMW M5 and then murdering the performance by attaching it to a trailer full of concrete. 

I know that we should all be thankful for being able to buy affordable protection against all but the most determined malware that’s in the wild, but having spent nearly a decade feeling that I’d rather take my chances with the malware than install security software onto my systems.  I remember using a product called Dr Solomon’s Anti Virus back in the 90s and being pretty pleased with that, but then the company was bought by McAfee and the product went down hill from there. 

Over the years I’ve got my hands on countless antivirus products and security suites and ultimately been disappointed by the lot.  They all seem to take your system’s CPU cycles and RAM and suck it into a black hole.  But there’s another problems.  Security products aimed at the consumer seem to all be aggressively competing for screen time.  Take, for example, Symantec’s Norton AntiVirus.  Here’s a program that’s constantly in your face with one message or another.  I’m pretty sure that idea behind this is that you’re less likely to renew a subscription if you’ve only noticed your AV product a couple of times, but if it’s in your face constantly, then you’re more aware of it and more likely to renew.  Doesn’t work on me I can tell you.

Another problem is that security software is riddled with bugs and most companies just don’t seem interested in fixing these problems.  My casebooks are filled with bugs and “features” that can be traced back to antivirus, antispam, and firewall software.  Some of these bugs are small and you can live with them, but others are big and very serious.  When you look at the bigger picture, it’s hard to justify spending money on software to prevent malware getting onto your system when the software you’re paying for makes your system suffer similar symptoms to those riddled with malware.

I’ve decided to take a two-pronged approach to dealing with this problem.  First off, I’m moving as much of my security workload from the desktop PCs and onto routers and file servers.   This way malware and spam is filtered out before reaching my main systems.  This system works well and there’s no performance hit - seems like a bargain to me.  Sure, this can be a pain to administer at times but it’s nowhere near as much of a hassle as having to admin security products on each of the systems - it’s also cheaper!  Secondly, security company Sophos offer free antivirus for journalists and I’ve taken advantage of this for a few years now, installing it onto my notebooks.  To be honest, I’d have little hesitation recommending the Sophos product I’m using to others, but they don’t make a consumer version, which is a shame.  The product works flawlessly and you only see it of hear from it when there’s something important going on.  The performance hit is also pretty low, so that’s another plus (especially desirable on notebooks).

My advice to anyone who is still considering buying a security software is to take advantage of trial versions and test thoroughly before parting with your cash - my experience (and the experiences of those who have written to me in the past) is that it’s not as easy to get your money back if you run into problems down the line.

Thoughts?  And remember, since it’s a Friday, you can vent your spleen about anything tech-related that annoys you! 

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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NEEDED!!
Vengence1@... 12th Nov 2007
You still need a antivirus program unless, you never go on the internet, Never check E-mail, or surf the web, download music or shared files, cuz if you do then watch out! I use Norton 2007 AV and Spybot 1.5 and Zonealarm (free) firewall. and I have never had a infection of any kind, but I don't go to porno sites and I only use Ares (paid version) for downloading music or movies or any files.
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Don't use a suite
andycher 26th Oct 2007
all you need is AV and anti-spyware
AVG is free
SpyBot or Windows Defender are free
AVG and SpyBot can be set to run automatically
Defender runs automatically

why make a big deal out of it

A
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Suites are bad, mmmkay?
FelisLachesis 26th Oct 2007
Amen to that! I work tech support, and both Norton Internet Security and McAfee's Security Suite on Vista actually breaks a few internal websites.

We throw these security suites out and replace them with McAfee AntiVirus and AntiSpyware. That, and a little social explanation of what not to do on the Internet, seems to go a long way in keeping systems fast and stable.
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Most suites are bad.
Azriphale 26th Oct 2007
I've been using AVG Internet Security for a few months now, based on my experiences for a few years of AVG Free. I wanted anti spyware, and a firewall as well, and I trust AVG from experience. It has not had any effect that I have noticed, I think.
So perhaps not _all_ suites are bad.
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I agree with that
Furiousrog 26th Oct 2007
I use AVG for many of my customers and I've never seen the types of problems encountered with Norton's and McAfee's suites. I uninstall them regularly and the machines magically spring to life.

Also very good is CA's Internet Security Suite which Road Runner offers for free to their customers. The only weak spot there is the firewall which, if they have a router, I don't bother to install. I love the anti-spam product and the whole suite has very little impact on system performance.
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AVG A/V = Good, AVG Suite = NotSoGood
TechInsider 26th Oct 2007
While I'll grant that AVG AntiVirus is a great product, the addition of the suite doesn't bring much value. EWido Anti-spy (now used in AVG products) was a great detector, but never much of a cleaner. Sadly, the situation has not changed that much under AVG's leadership.

I would go as far to argue that there is NO GOOD security suite, Norton and Mcafee suck equally, Trend is perhaps the mosquito floating atop the pond scum of Norton/McAfee...slightly better, but still unseemly.

CA, AVG and others suffer from bad buyout syndrome (great products combined with fair products, like great A/V + chatty firewall + just-over-spybot-quality anti-spyware = AVG).

For larger businesses w/ no choice but to roll out a standard package, I'd say Trend is probably the best blend out there. CA works well too.

For homes and small businesses, you can get much more effective protection, using fewer computer resources, by building a custom solution...Say AVG Free or Pro Edtion + SuperAntiSpyware Free or Pro Edition + Router/SPI Firewall + Outlook Junk Email Filters + Windows Firewall + Spybot (immunize function only) or SpywareBlaster site blockers.

Just about all of those things are available in any given internet-connected environment...most of them for free. There are other highly effective combos out there I'm sure, but that's the one I use professionally to clean PCs every day.

-TI
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AVG Software
Vengence1@... 12th Nov 2007
can u give me the link to this GREAT AVG Sueit.
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Depends on what you need done
Suicida| 26th Oct 2007
Most suites are akin to buying a Freightliner to tow a Honda, when a 1/2 ton pickup would do the job just fine.
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Exactly right
morchant 26th Oct 2007
I've been using AVG, Spybot, SpywareBlaster, and Defender on all of my PCs for years and have had zero infections or issues. Aside from the slowdown when doing full system scans (scheduled for off use hours to minimize the aggravation), my systems run great. First thing I do when getting a new PC is kill the installed trialware suite and install these free, lightweight tools.
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Agree
itpro_z 27th Oct 2007
Windows has always ran well if not overloaded with useless and unnecessary utilities. When people complain about their computers being slow and unstable, I start with removing their "suites", then scanning with simple tools. There are many good antispyware programs out there, but I have settled on Defender along with one other, such as Adaware or Spybot. I like Avast antivirus, which is tiny and free, and seems to work well. I have used it to clean grossly infected computers.

Funny thing is, once I have a clients computer running like a top, many will usually start adding the suites back in and muck it up again. The suites have their fanboys also, especially Symantec and McAfee, and they will argue endlessly about which is better.
So the carpet matches the curtains happy
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Agreed
Ben_E 26th Oct 2007
In the past I have used Norton System Security (up to about 2003) but it was just destroying my PCs performance. After that I moved to Zone Alarm Internet Security, but that interfered in too many programs after it went through an update. Better than Norton though. Of late I have been using OneCare v2.0 beta and it's generally very good. The only problem is that if it throws up a firewall "Allow/Disallow" dialog it triggers UAC as well. But I like its general approach and the OneCare Circle idea is very good. But the bottom line is, it doesn't appear to impact upon system performance in the same way the other suites did (although I never ran those under Vista I did run OneCase under XP and Vista).
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LEAVE BEHIND THIS BS
theo_durcan 26th Oct 2007
Use a mac. Problem solved.
Seriously - your argument has bowled me over! It is so...so...brilliant in its' efficiency!

Thank you for showing me the True Way!

Thank you!
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Oh ye of little faith.
Furiousrog 26th Oct 2007
Can I get a hallelujah brother!!! Mac is the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to computing bliss except through Mac.
happy
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Your advice is good for windows users
notsofast 26th Oct 2007
Just think how many malware writers would switch to OSX if there was enough people to make the big bucks.

Alas, it is unlikley to happen. People don't want to pay more for a Mac.

Maybe they should, but most won't.
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Yeah, most won't
Landrue 26th Oct 2007
But, boy! I'm sure glad I did!
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MonkeyBoy can only wish....
jeffdickey 29th Oct 2007
Truth is, the malware would slip over there, too.... if OS X were as grossly negligently defective as Windows. There are things you can do to hurt OS X, or Linux, or just about any system.... but the difference between Windows and a modern operating system is that damage to any other OS is
* minor
* easily, usually automatically repaired
* localized to non-core systems; you /never/ see a Mac (and rarely a Linux box) '0wned' by some script kiddie or participating in a botnet.

Havimg worked with Windows as long as there's been a Windows, I can confidently say that if I had a penny for every hundred man-hours of productivity that Windows has cost people, I could retire and buy a nice little island. But it IS very good for one thing - making sure that support technicians are fully employed. Is that good for business or society? Hmm...
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Most can't afford to...
GaijinIT 29th Oct 2007
When you have to bring work home from the office and your boss doesn't understand anything but the corporate philosophy of Windows being the end of the discussion where PCs are concerned, people don't have the choice to use a Mac. And don't talk to me about emulation - the result of that is slower performance much worse than any security suites would bring to my Core2 Duo machine running XP Pro .
I bought my first Mac when the SE30 came out. That and a StyleWriter cost me more than $3,000 but I had a son in school who needed something for his homework that didn't need an engineering degree to learn, and the Mac was it.
Then 3 years ago I wanted to add a graphic card (Radeon 9600) to my Mac G4 and the price was more than 3x than for a Windows machine. Same for hard disks, CD/DVD writers, most printers and I just decided enough was enough. Sure the Mac is easier, but Win XP Pro is also easy, and its steady and you can get to the depths of the system to remove/edit things. Try that with a Mac and OSX.
The Mac is great for those who have a lot of money and no time to learn how to use a computer, but need a tool they can depend on. But I depend on my Core2 Duo running Win XP Pro and I saved a LOT of money doing so.
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Or....
tsolorio 29th Oct 2007
linux. I'd gladly use my iBook or Lunix box anyday over my Windows machine at work.
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leave behind THAT ********...
jazzie129uk@... 29th Oct 2007
first virus to infect home computers in the wild: elk cloner, which attacked apple dos 3.3.

but then macs don't get viruses do they? silly old me...
0 Votes
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No need to rant that much.
osreinstall 26th Oct 2007
First of all you are limiting yourself to the 2 top dogs, Symantec & McGafee. I use AVG on all of my customers computers which doesn't try to do anything except screen for viruses. Those suites you mentioned take over the machine and are a virus unto themselves. They slow the machine, show you ads, are brokenen themselves and you have difficulty uninstalling the buggers. Not only that AVG is free but lacks some automatic feature that the pay version has.
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Just uninstall it ha ha ha
zmud 26th Oct 2007
Just try to uninstall some of these suites (especially Panda and Norton)
good luck
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uninstall it my A**!!!
purplepigcat 26th Oct 2007
I had performance issues with Norton who wanted $40 to talk to me about it so I tried to uninstall it. Here it is a year later and I'm still seeing remnant files!!!! I had to take my computer into the shop for something else and had them cleanse the system of all traces of Norton. Hope it worked!!!
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So right about Norton!
jl.hooper@... 29th Oct 2007
I suffered through Norton up to three years ago - what a dog!
It's like an octopus, intruding everywhere.
I got their support to give me the manual uninstall procedure, but it took about three hours to completely wipe it out of the registries. Never again!
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Uninstall it
itpro_z 27th Oct 2007
I have spent hours hacking the registry to remove Norton's. In some cases, it would have been quicker and easier to reformat the drive.
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Uninstalling anything is easy if...
GaijinIT 29th Oct 2007
I use a small utility called 'Total Uninstall' (www.martau.com) and it works every time. It scans the registry before and after installing any application, and allows you to save all this with a name you will remember. It is freeware up to & inc. version 3.
Then when you want to remove any app, just call it up in Total Uninstall, and tell it to uninstall it from your system (not 'remove' - that only removes the item from Total Uninstaller's list). It will warn you if the uninstall involves any shared registry items or system files and you can OK/refuse any or all.
This little tool has saved my a** many times, since I am always trying out new tools and time-savers (almost all my work is graphic-related). Which, by the way, is another reason a Mac won't work for me - there is no OSX version of AutoCAD yet available.
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OR
morrig 1st Nov 2007
You could try Windows Installer Clean (by MS),usually rids beastys.
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Oops
morrig 1st Nov 2007
In previous,forgot to put Up after Clean.
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Security Software rubbish is there
jacarter3 26th Oct 2007
because the OS is rubbish too. Seriously, one of the most compelling reasons for my MacBook Pro purchase was that I was sick of constantly spending time updating the OS and the security rubbish almost every day.

I am a very mobile user. My laptop is booted at least once, and often several times, a day. I have had it with the long load times that the stupid security software takes and then the "please wait a while longer" dialog while the security crap and Windows both check for updates. This morning when I booted the XP Pro partition, I got a spyware update that took several minutes to download (along with the AV signature database), several minutes to install, and then was promptly told that I must reboot. AAAARRRRGGGGHHH!

Why is it that Windows requires constant attention to "security" in all aspects of it's use. Why are there so many freakin holes in this bloated monster anyway? From Ryan Naraine's post today about the "PDF" attacks:

?ecause the vulnerability mentioned in this advisory is in the Microsoft Windows ShellExecute function, these third party updates do not resolve the vulnerability - they just close an attack vector,? says Bill Sisk, a member of Redmond?s security response communications team.

Why?!?!? Why is it that this type of crap still exists in Windows XP? What lays hidden in Vista that will be the next big threat? We all know that Vista may be "better" but I sincerely doubt that it's even close to being really secure. On the other hand, I could load it instead and suffer the performnce loss from the OS itself instead of the security software. But them I would need to add security to Vista and I at a point that even worse in performance...
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Feel better now?
itpro_z 27th Oct 2007
You got your daily plug in for Macs, and your more than daily "I hate Microsoft" rant out of the way. Now you can move on to your "spiritual experience" and install Leopard.
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Whar a load of...
jacarter3 28th Oct 2007
BS!

I use both. Do you? Do you have ANY basis in experience to dispute anything I wrote?

No. Why have any valid points to male?

It;s so much easier to claim that I have some bias than to understand my perspective.

Get a life, idiot!
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Dispute
itpro_z 31st Oct 2007
OK, try this. My systems update automatically, so I don't "waste time" keeping my systems secure. Yes, an occasional update may require a reboot, which happens maybe once a month, if that often. Not something to blow a gasket about. Antivirus updates happen daily, in the background, same for antispyware. I generally don't even notice it happening. Once again, not something to lose your cool over.

My post was in response to your tone, more than your specific comments. Even your reply was over the top, venting anger like a volcano. Just so you know, I do have a life, and a spell checker.
No one forces you to use a PC; just buy a Macbook and move on. I find it funny when there are people here who try to make out as if Bill Gates had swung through their window, placed a gun against their head and forced them to run Windows.
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bill gates/gun to head
HandsomeandCutie 27th Oct 2007
while I agree that no one holds a gun to anybodys head. Not everyone can afford a mac, and do not know enough about the software, or dos, to be able to make a good decision. Bill Gates made the money he has, because he made the computer programs windowed and made it easier to mass produce cheaply.
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Is it needed?
No_Ax_to_Grind 26th Oct 2007
Ok, I have Windows XP box behind a firewalled router and it has nothing more than Microsoft Defender for "security". I've never had a virus or malware on the machine.

However, I attribute some of that to how I use the box. I never open "unknown" email. I have never clicked on an ad in an email. I never open any email attachment that I did not expect and know who it came from. I don't really "surf" the net to unknown sites. (I have a group of sites I visit regularly.) And finally, I do not install unknown (freeware/shareware) software off the web. (I do have a test machine for new software that is not part of our network.)
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RE: Is it needed?
Kaiwai 26th Oct 2007
Most people don't have a test machine though.

With that being said, what you mention is good commonsense, regardless of the operating system.

Don't install software from organisations you don't know of; infact, if I do find something interesting, I read about it before even downloading; find feedback, whether it has spyware, compatibility issues etc. etc.

As for the website issue, I can never understand how people become infected - they must go to really dodgy/illegal websites that I have never visited before.
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dodgy/illegal?
duckles10 26th Oct 2007
I was running a google search and one of the page one results looked promising. The site totally compromised the computer I was using. My spyware/virus/adware programs couldn't clean it. Finally used system restore which seems to have cleaned it up.
duckles10
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Is it needed?
newsletter@... 26th Oct 2007
I've been running my primary machine since January without any antivirus software of any kind loaded in the background. I've used Windows Vista firewall. About once a month, I boot into a protected partition on my thinkpad, and run norton 07 from there, just to be sure. I haven't had a single issue with a virus, worm, spyware, or trojan, or any other malware at all in that time. Perhaps, I've merely been lucky, but my experience leads me to the conclusion that antivirus software is no longer needed.
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Dangerous conclussion if you
Linux User 147560 26th Oct 2007
are running Windows... devil
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Not really.
osreinstall 27th Oct 2007
If you run IE just turn off javascript and activeX and you have device to clear out landmines. However it has limited functionally. If you run Mozilla, you still have to turn off the dangerous javascript functions, unlike IE's inability to fine tune. IE is dangerous for it is the most targeted, but why not step out of the line of fire. A combination of Mozilla, AdAware and AVG on Windows is fine. AVG is for those that don't listen for some reason. It's the targeted features that make IE insecure. I do upgrade Mozilla everytime a version comes out.
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100% agree.
Bozzer 29th Oct 2007
The AV and anti malrare industry feeds of consumers fears. The only thing AV software is good for is to stop you getting reinfected, they are completely ineffective against zero day exploits.

How you set up your system and what sites you frequent is far more effective than any AV software every will be. If people frequent cracks, warez and porn sites than they will inevitably get some kind of virus and definitely get some kind of malware regardless of what security suite they are using. Especially if they are doing so using vanilla Internet Explorer.

I used to use spybot and ad-aware regularly. But even gave that up because they never found anything and I never visited sites that could give me anything, especially due to the way I had configured my machine.

It is people who venture onto the seedy side of the web that will get viruses and malware. It is those people who open every mail attachment and have HTML enabled mail that will get the worms. It is those people who have no idea about how to disable ActiveX scripting and other such niceties who will get viruses and worms.

Is any website worth enabling activex for? Not in my book. If it is, and your SURE you can trust it, you could always add it to the whitelist anyway.

Whitelists are the only way you can be sure. AV software can only close the gate once the horse has bolted. The virus and malware writers will always be one step ahead of the security software. That is the nature of the beast.

I am a great believer that in 90% of the cases of viruses and malware infection the users deserves the punishment of being infected, either because of their own stupidity or that they visiting dodgy websites. The other 10% I believe to be naivety, which I can almost forgive.
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Antivirus software is useless
genericman 26th Oct 2007
There hasn't been a VIRUS that has done damage since 1995. Everything today is spyware, worms, trojan horses, and miscellaneous social engineering attacks.

Run as an unprivileged user (yes, on Windows it's actually possible), only escalate when necessary, and keep everything patched. Antivirus software offers absolutely no protection any more, and those suites cause much more damage than they cure.
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Not useless
itpro_z 27th Oct 2007
I agree, keep your system patched and up to date, and you are immune to most viruses. There are, however, some that might slip through (in a download, for example), so running a small, simple antivirus application (like Avast) is still prudent.
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Linux, BSD, Solaris, and VMware ...
MisterMiester 26th Oct 2007
I just run Kubuntu 7.10 with XP under a VMware session only running a virus scan once in a while. If the system becomes infected I just delete the image and restore to the previous VM image and all is well.

If you're really paranoid surfing the web under Windows you can sandbox a minumum Linux install and run a web browser, email, ftp, etc ... in the VM image. VMWare calls them "Virtual Appliances" and there are hundreds to chose from:

http://www.vmware.com/appliances/directory/

You can even install a small image for the same purpose called Slax, which you can run as a seperate OS on a CD Rom, pendrive, or in a VM image:

http://www.slax.org/

There is so much more you can do by using available free and open source products then a paid solution in both money and restrictions. happy
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Roger that!
D T Schmitz 26th Oct 2007
nt
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There ya go!
Landrue 26th Oct 2007
Just keep Windoze away from the internet, Jojo.
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Stupid Users are the Problem
bweir13 26th Oct 2007
OK, so it's not likely the readers here who are the reason why these bloated, resource-hogging "security" suites are doing so well. The problem is the majority of PC users have never really tried to learn how to properly secure their own PC's, so instead, they pay McAfee $50/year to secure their own systems, never knowing that the reason their Windows PC runs like crap is that the software is sapping the resources. Yet they are happy that they can surf the Web and download all sorts of shady little applets that make their desktop animated or add a toolbar to Windows Explorer. It's these meatheads that drive this industry and the reason those security companies remain profitable.

For me, all I have on my 4-year old XP system is Avira Anti-Vir and the default Windows XP firewall. Nothing else. I've never had a virus and don't need another firewall because I took the time to learn how to secure my PC. I no longer help people when they have a "problem" now, because 99% of the problems are caused by the carelessness of the user and I really have better things to do than fix mistakes caused by ignorance.
BitDefender does its job better.

I do not know is BitDefender the best AV or not, but I never heard about it before. I bought it by accident and never regret about the purchase (less than 1 year of use). It does not affect performance as Norton, handles the same viruses/worms better than Avast!, which I preferred to Norton and McAfee; etc.

Share your experience which AV suites you better, please.
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BitDefneder is no better
jafucci@... 27th Oct 2007
I have been using BitDefender for over a year in a small company environment. It was chosen after looking at several solutions, to include McAfee, Norton, Panda, and others. Whne it was first installed, things were fine, but after some updates occurred, things just went downhill. Network performance came to a crawl, the amti-spam toolbar disapperared from Outlook, system performance took a dive, and support is pretty much non-existent.

We are currently looking at replacing BitDefender with something else, and so far Trend Micro is at the top of the list. We do not have a whole lot of resources for testing the different products, and while reading reviews and comparisons on the different web sites, they all mostly concentrate on the number of viruses/spyware/trojans/malware that are detected, and not so much on system resources used. So we do our best and hope that our choice does not leave us disappointed.
That's why I do not experience your problems.

Good to know that BitDefender is not for Network yet. But for personal use it definitely better than Notron, McAfee and Avast (in my experience, of course).
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NEEDED!!
Vengence1@... 12th Nov 2007
You still need a antivirus program unless, you never go on the internet, Never check E-mail, or surf the web, download music or shared files, cuz if you do then watch out! I use Norton 2007 AV and Spybot 1.5 and Zonealarm (free) firewall. and I have never had a infection of any kind, but I don't go to porno sites and I only use Ares (paid version) for downloading music or movies or any files.

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