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Hardware 2.0

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Grrrr! Stop trying to change my settings!!!!

By | January 4, 2011, 11:23am PST

You know what I hate more than anything (well, OK, maybe not more than anything, but you know what I mean)? Software that I carefully install to make sure it doesn’t change any of my settings that later goes on to try to change my settings.

I present to you Windows Live Messenger. I’m not Windows Live Messenger fan, partly because I find the applications annoying to use, partly because all the ads and winks and nudges and junk make it tiresome, partly because it’s tedious to install just the Messenger part, and partly because there are third-party apps that do a better job. However, the other day I needed Messenger on a system I had so downloaded the installer from Microsoft, navigated the minefield of options where it tries to install pretty much every bit of free code Microsoft has onto my system and change settings on my system to “MSNify” and “Bingify” it.

Finally, I get Messenger installed. And, wow, at this point do I feel the need to express what an ugly mess this application as become. What used to be a simple tool to let me chat with others has expanded into something that is part portal, part ad displaying machine. Chatting to my contacts is secondary to making me aware of the existence of ‘Bing’ and putting dating sites a click away.

Ugh.

Anyway, I get it installed. It works. I’m happy.

Well, I’m happy until a few system reboots later Messenger brings a dialog box offering me the chance to ’select’ my settings:

There are several things I find distasteful about this dialog box:

  • First, it lurks, waiting for me to restart Messenger a few times before offering these settings changes. Why not just offer them right at the start when I’m setting it up? Maybe because I was in an unselecting mood back then and Microsoft are hoping that this time I’ll just click OK to make the dialog box go away.
  • I fired up Messenger, yet the title of the box is Windows Live Essentials 2011 … why not be clear as to the origin of this pop-up?
  • Why are all the settings pre-checked? OK, I know why all the settings are pre-checked, it’s because Microsoft wants me to click OK and make these changes happen. But why not be clearer and less scammy and make the checked/unchecked state of the options reflect my current settings? Don’t bother answering that because I know why … it’s an attempt at pushing these settings on me.

There are three good reasons why Microsoft wants me to make Bing the default for searches and change my homepage to MSN, here they are listed in order of importance:

  • Money
  • Money!
  • MONEY!!!

Well, times are hard and Microsoft’s online arm hasn’t really been the cash cow that the company expected it to be, but trying to underhandedly push system changes feels scammy and makes it harder to recommend the product to others (especially those who blindly click dialog boxes and then hassle me asking where Google has gone or why LOLcatz is no longer their home page).

As annoying as this is, I still hate Jar Jar Binks even more.

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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RE: Grrrr! Stop trying to change my settings!!!!
LeonBA 13th Jan 2011
Reminds me why I switched to Linux. If it's not one thing, it's another, with Microsoft. It's comforting to have more control over my operating system and its settings.
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Dude, don't forget iTunes
Mic Cox 4th Jan 2011
It uses the settings that you specify during install but they are not reflected in the settings box so that when you click OK, the settings are updated to what Apple wanted you to have...and you didn't even change anything on the settings box.
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RE: Grrrr! Stop trying to change my settings!!!!
WarhavenSC Updated - 4th Jan 2011
@Mic Cox ... that doesn't bother me as much as throwing icons on my desktop without asking whenever Quicktime, iTunes, etc. are updated.
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Stay away from any Microsoft or Apple product and you will never regret it, living the tech life you want, not the one that is forced down your throat.
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@WarhavenSC

I hate that too but just about all of them do it. At least some offer the option not to install icons all over the place.
@WarhavenSC
Neither iTunes nor quicktime has ever put an icon on my desktop or even offered to do so. They go by default into the applications folder, but that is on a Mac; maybe when in Windows, do like the Windonians.
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@Mic Cox
I can't count how many times my iTunes updater has tried to install Safari on my PC.
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Which is why
Cylon Centurion 4th Jan 2011
@NonZealot

I uninstalled all of Apple's junk all together. I now use QuickTime Alternative.
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I have an iPhone
NonZealot 4th Jan 2011
iTunes is forced on my by its maker. sad
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to admit that they didn't know how to uncheck a box in a preferences dialog.
@NonZealot Safari has not been checked by default on the PC in over 2 years when updating the iTunes software. Get over it.
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@NonZealot

Not surprising, seeing as how you have proved, time and time again, that you can't count.
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My daughter installed iTunes on her profile on our desktop computer, and it assumed everyone on every profile wanted it as the default music player. I've had to deal with viruses that were better behaved than this bloated, resource hogging nightmare.
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@R.L. Parson That was your daughter's fault.
The options were presented during install.
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@R.L. Parson why is your daughter using an admin level acct on your PC?
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@R.L. Parson why is your daughter using an admin level acct on your PC?

Because that's the windoze way, that's why.
  • Flagged
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No. This is not a Windows issue. This is an Apple issue for assuming something that does not exist. It's one thing to make the program available across all user profiles. It's another thing entirely to hijack file associations without asking.
@R.L. Parson
Not a windoze issue? Even if it's about WLE and Bing toolbar?

Or do you normally shoot from the hip first before you read the article...
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RE: Grrrr! Stop trying to change my settings!!!!
Pete "athynz" Athens 5th Jan 2011
@LTV10 No it is NOT a Windows issue... no matter how much you may want it to be.

ThereThere - @R.L. Parson why is your daughter using an admin level acct on your PC?

LTV10 - Because that's the windoze way, that's why.


Using an Admin level account is NOT a Windows issue but a user issue - what part of that do you not comprehend?
Using an Admin level account is NOT a Windows issue but a user issue - what part of that do you not comprehend?

No, it's a windoze issue. Do you really think most people pay attention to UAC? I suspect they already have it disabled so they can go straight into windoze without the delay of a password and click on wizards and jpgs randomly like they did in the good old XP days.

It helps having a system built around security from the ground up instead of being band-aided on after the fact.
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RE: Grrrr! Stop trying to change my settings!!!!
none none Updated - 6th Jan 2011
@athynz

Using an Admin level account is NOT a Windows issue but a user issue - what part of that do you not comprehend?

I'm not so sure about that. I'm a Linux user but when I bought my last laptop I decided to keep the Windows 7 it came with on a small partition instead of blowing it away. I'd heard it was pretty good and wanted to check it out.

So, I started it up and went through all the start-up stuff. I admit I wasn't really careful but I ended up with an admin user account just blowing through it.

BTW, it is pretty good. It's almost as good as Linux. The onboard help and support still sucks as always, though. And there's really nothing much installed on it. It's pretty bare-bones.




@R.L. Parson: ... you push the button on the installation screen or if later user with *administrative* previlegies agrees to, if some of formerly associated files somehow got associated with other application and iTunes warns user about.
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@none none

Uh, idiot...... you HAVE to have at least ONE administrator level account on your computer. It's a non-optional. Now, that doesn't keep you from making ANOTHER user-level account for you to use on a daily basis. Frankly, I don't bother because some things I use need admin privileges quite often, such as game trainers.
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RE: Grrrr! Stop trying to change my settings!!!!
Pete "athynz" Athens 5th Jan 2011
@Mic Cox maybe it's just me but I check out all of the pop up windows when I install anything to make sure they don;t try to slip a browser toolbar or something else I don't want past me -I guess some are not this diligent.
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@athynz

It is just you and most people aren't that diligent. Even I ran into the same issue not too long ago.

http://www.zdnet.com/tb/1-91507

And as I mentioned then, even Adrian brought it up not too long before that.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/is-microsoft-pushing-stealth-updates-to-users-again-this-time-its-toolbars-/8590

We're supposed to 'trust' Micro$oft and that's not entirely true and you know it.

Stop being in denial.
@Mic Cox
Really. My iTunes has never came back later trying to harass or trick me into changing settings.
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RE: Grrrr! Stop trying to change my settings!!!!
R.L. Parson Updated - 5th Jan 2011
Software is not normally installed by anyone on any of my computers without my permission. So when my 17 year old daughter asked to install iTunes, a commonly used program, why shouldn't I allow her to do so? It is a user issue from that standpoint. iTunes stole file associations from other user profiles without those other users' permission. This is an Apple issue because apparently the iTunes default is "install and associate files for all users." This is a Windows issue for allowing that sort of thing to happen. I know where every domino fell.

As an aside, iTunes has hijacked me again when it has been upgraded or updated. I have other issues with iTunes, too (well, my daughter does, which makes it my problem), but they have nothing to do with the "change my settings" topic here.

By the way, I don't use Live Messenger for the exact same reasons Adrian mentioned. On a residential system, no software should change any setting without the user's permission, especially across profiles. Doesn't matter what the software is or the software provider. Don't let your rage against Microsoft blind you to the sins of others.
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@R.L. Parson

No, it isn't a iTunes issue, because iTunes warns you that it will automatically associate itself with all music/video files unless you tell it not to.
It's also not a Windows issue, because Windows is just assuming that you know what the hell you are doing, and know how to UNMARK a box.
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RE: Grrrr! Stop trying to change my settings!!!!
Loverock Davidson 4th Jan 2011
Its a Microsoft product and you were wanting to complain about it anyway. So just uncheck the boxes and go about your business. A lot of other software does this, trying to get you to install some search toolbar. Just be careful and you won't have this problem.
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@Loverock Davidson

This is just one convenient example. Adobe, Sun and Apple all do this as well, and they are all wrong to do it.
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A bad trend doesn't make a right!
kaninelupus 5th Jan 2011
@Loverock Davidson

I'm with the OP on this... if I didn't opt for it in the first place, then don't keep trying to shove it down my throat at later periods. You'd be the first to moan about it if other software providers did this (as the likes of Apple, Adobe, Java etc do), but are all meek and mild when MS does it... which makes you a fanboi (sorry, but had to say it).

Adrian's point here was dealing with just that... once one has waded through the initial quagmire of checkboxes, those choices should be respected (regardless of the provider).
@kaninelupus You must be new here. L.D. is an MS Troll.
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@kaninelupus

Um, sorry to break it to you, but Apple and Adobe do NOT do this, and Java is not a software provider.
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@Loverock Davidson

Agreed, Loverock. The fact is that I READ THE STUFF IN THE BOXES to make sure that something I am installing won't overwrite my settings and file associations.

It's simple common sense to watch for applications and make sure that they are not doing that, on OSX, Windows or even LINUX!
Slimey and disappointing. Many years ago, Yahoo lost being homepage for me due to pop-ups and pop-unders. Thanks for another reminder why I don't like this kind of thing. Hopefully they will realize that sneaky customer service will lose them more than they gain in the long run.


Okay - talk about sneaky stuff to drive smart users away: I was asked to register on this site afterward I typed everything up, and was presented with a list of emails to fill my inbox - all checked! You may be calling the kettle black!

Add having to retype some info and 3 tries to log in - don't expect me back here often :-P
@kah731
L.O.L. Your point about ZDNet is funny. Do these "writers' get paid for these blog posts? Half the people in the Talkback section could write better articles than this waste of bytes.
@cmoya
What are you waiting for. Contact Larry for a writing position.
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@daikon
Well, I think he blew it by including "LOL" and then putting periods between the letters. In sentence three, writers has a double quote to begin and single quote to conclude. Irony quotes are also a sign of poor writing, just look at how many times I "use" them.
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@DannyO_0x98

If you think ZDNet cares then you haven't read any of Zack Whittaker's tortured prose. I don't mean to pick on the guy, but geez. You'd think there'd be a budget for a little basic copy editing.



happy
@kah731

Actually, you may be on to something -- that might just be the point. They don't want smart users. Smart users are critical, independent and make up their own minds, based on carefully evaluated info from diverse sources.

No; now that I consider it, they want dumb, ignorant users -- preferably ones who don't appreciate that this is so, or that they themselves are in this target demographic. Dumb users accept the marketing dressed up as journalism, are swayed by erroneous facts and faulty logic. More importantly, they are more likely to click on ads and buy products after a poorly understood, shallow perusal of the articles and blog columns. The more enthusiastic will join in, posting comments that further confuse matters and add to the impression the the original posting is a hot topic worthy of serious attention and consideration.

(It of course follows that anyone :-P who posts comments of their own is, by definition, most likely in the second category.)
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And Quicktime...
TheWerewolf 4th Jan 2011
WHY does it have to take over rendering PNG files in my browser? I don't even want it on my computer - I have to have it there because I have and iPhone and that means iTunes and that means Quicktime and Bonjour whether I want them or not.

But taking over bits in my *browser*??? And worse, if you want to save a graphic, it requires you to pay up to Quicktime Pro.

Last time I checked, if you block someone from gaining free access to something they already have, and then demand money to get that ability or property back - that's called 'extortion'.
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Someone flagged the post as spam..
TheWerewolf Updated - 4th Jan 2011
But now it's back.

Guess I hit a nerve there... happy
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@TheWerewolf ... Probably wasn't really flagged as spam. If you edit your message before refreshing the page on the first post, it'll error out and simply display that it was flagged as spam. Bug that hasn't been fixed for over a year now, I think.
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RE: Grrrr! Stop trying to change my settings!!!!
WarhavenSC Updated - 4th Jan 2011
@TheWerewolf ... I haven't had that problem. Have the same things installed.

By the way, you can uninstall Bonjour. It's listed with all the other apps.

[edit]

And if you want to avoid installing Bonjour & Quicktime with iTunes, you can grab this convenient custom installer:

http://www.ajuaonline.com/custom-installers/

You'll still need to install a QT-compatible variant though, included in this codec pack: http://codecguide.com/
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RE: Grrrr! Stop trying to change my settings!!!!
Pete "athynz" Athens 5th Jan 2011
@TheWerewolf I haven't had this issue... nor have I ever come across a time where I was required to have QTPro to download a graphic - are you on a Mac or PC?
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@TheWerewolf

uh, WTF are you talking about. Absolutely NOTHING that you wrote is true. Nothing.
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Why put up with that nonsense?
Yagotta B. Kidding 4th Jan 2011
Just make the config files read-only after you have them the way you want them.
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@Yagotta B. Kidding
Funny idea. Ever tried that?
Better yet burn all settings files and windows registry to DVD ROM.
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Funny idea. Ever tried that?
Yagotta B. Kidding 4th Jan 2011
Sure. It's pretty standard fare.

There are some variants on doing it; the simplest is to just chmod -R a-w the directory where the files are; crude but usually effective.

If the apps use your privileges to reset the files rw, you can change the ownership. In that case you need to have two user IDs per user [1], one for normal use and another for "hardened" configurations. Then you do your configuration changes with a trusted process which temporarily changes its UID to the one that owns the files. It's a bit more trouble, but not terribly hard to do. If the settings you're changing are all handled by a common API (like KDE, Gnome, or the Microsoft registry) then you can patch the libraries that do the work (e.g. gconf) to request permission with a password for access through trusted process.

All in all, it's annoying to have to do this kind of thing but given that it's necessary it's not hard to seal with.

[1] Or a single trusted user ID that owns them all but limits access based on the ownership of the user space where they're located.
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@Yagotta B. Kidding Good luck typing chmod into a windows command prompt...
@snoop0x7b

I presume there's Windows equivalents?

Probably at least two, because XP likely won't be doing it the same as Vista or 7.

Considering the huge Linux/Windows battles here, I'd expect that some Windows expert would jump at the chance to show that it can be done in Windows, too (even that it might have/require a nice, graphical TweakUI-type tool, to avoid having to fiddle with the messy, awkward Windows CLI or risky registry editing).

Perhaps ACL or group policy stuff?
Reminds me why I switched to Linux. If it's not one thing, it's another, with Microsoft. It's comforting to have more control over my operating system and its settings.

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