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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes
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Has the Snow Leopard bug hosed your data?

By | October 12, 2009, 2:57pm PDT

Summary: The Apple support forum contains numerous references to a Snow Leopard bug that result in the deletion of all of the user account data.

The Apple support forum contains numerous references to a Snow Leopard bug that result in the deletion of all of the user account data.

Details are vague on this bug, but there seems to be two conditions that need to be met:

  • Users have to have upgraded from Mac OS X 10.6 (Leopard) to 10.6 (Snow Leopard) with the Guest account active.
  • The data deletion seems to occur when users log into the Guest account and then log back into their own account.

Apple is so far silent on this matter, but a temporary workaround to protect your data (if it’s not already been hosed) is to disable the Guest account.

Oh, and keep your backups handy …

Any readers affected by this bug?

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Topics

Guest Account, Bug, Details, Data Deletion, Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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Windows 7 protected by 50 foot castle walls designed by some old guy
richardw66 24th Oct 2009
I just saw it on the ad.

This guy on the ad decided that windows 7 should have walls like a
castle but really high.

So now Windows 7 is protected by 50 foot high castle walls, because
this guy on the ad thought of it.

He is windows apparently.

Amazing what you can learn from advertising when you take them
completely literally and stretch the point isn't it?

Now who's lying in their ads.

How many times has Microsoft claimed that they finally have a secure
OS?

Of course the question now is - have they got it right this time?
View in thread
0 Votes
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That's a new FEATURE...
Feldwebel Wolfenstool 12th Oct 2009
...a real "killer app".
0 Votes
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Cute
use_what_works_4_U 13th Oct 2009
happy
0 Votes
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Proofreading needed...
Wolfie2K3 12th Oct 2009
Users have to have upgraded from Mac OS X 10.6 (Leopard) to 10.6 (Snow Leopard) with the Guest account active.

Er.. You meant to write "Mac OS X 10.5(Leopard)...", didn't you?
0 Votes
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Yeah I'd be cool if people were perfect
JasonJD48 12th Oct 2009
I'm sure he knows that andit was either a mental fart or a 'fat finger' mistake. You know what he meant so what's your point besides being a teacher's pet.
0 Votes
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Point being
himeyax 13th Oct 2009
His point was that he needs to proofread before posting.
0 Votes
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Yeah, let's not hold people who get paid to write
frgough 13th Oct 2009
to any sort of professional expectation. It might hurt their feelings.
0 Votes
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People are perfect, just ask anyone you meet
Grey Ash 14th Oct 2009
and they'll tell you on and on ad nauseum about how great they are unless you say ******** you suck, you're life is a series of meaningless posturings trying to imitate some charechter you see on tv that is Cool, your breath stinks and our moms a whining suburban waste. if they try to throw you off by saying " my parents are dead" just tell them that it's because they couldn't stand you. this works best on children ...
0 Votes
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Apple is silent...
Roque Mocan 12th Oct 2009
because only PC's lose data and have bugs... I have seen the TV ads... (Seems to me that there should be some kind of backing up of system state - akin to saving registry, Active Directory in Windows)
0 Votes
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Silent, hardly!
Appreciate-Tech Updated - 13th Oct 2009
First they have to be able to credibly replicate the condition and the bug
and as far as Applecare Phone tech's are concerned they never heard of
the bug or any defect related to the gust account. This is typical of
vested interest, they write a about a potential problem not even seen
often in the wild and they indicate that it is a condition effecting the Mac
installed base, well it is simply not the case. Additionally and finally,
before you take anything as fact do your own research then act on what
you "know" not what you think!
0 Votes
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Funny...
windozefreak 14th Oct 2009
...you think only apple has to do this. Don't you think all os mfgr. have to do this?
0 Votes
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Backup system supplied in OS - Apple says to use it in case of problems
richardw66 13th Oct 2009
As Apple always tells users to backup before doing anything major,
just in case something goes wrong, they have built a backup system
into the OS.

The backup system is called Time Machine.

To set it up you plug in a hard drive, and turn on Time Machine and
tell it to use that HD. It will also back up to HDs plugged into Airport
Base stations, or the Time Capsule bases, with minimal effort. It then
provides day by day access to the file system, as well as restore. i.e.
you can look at a folder, then browse backwards a day at a time.

Why do Windows users pretend that Apple claims that nothing goes
wrong? They just don't. If you read what they are actually saying then
you couldn't make such stupid claims about them.

The Snow Leopard installation instructions and the installer all tell the
user to back up, as anything may go wrong - including loss of data.

The OS makes it easy to Backup.

I was looking at developing my Unix based backup solution that I was
using for my clients as a product - then Apple introduced Time
Machine and it became redundant, as Time Machine does it better.

It's time Windows users stopped making Straw Man claims about
Apple. It may make you feel better about the bad choices you have
made - but no need to treat the rest of the world to your
misinformation and bile.
0 Votes
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Time capsule
Lester Young 13th Oct 2009
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-10372815-263.html?tag=mncol;posts

Looks like you'll need to backup your backups.
0 Votes
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Nuh uh, they splat when you throw 'em at walls.
Grey Ash 14th Oct 2009
I tried to put a contact Mic on an apple to see what it was thinking... result...still reviewing the hours of tape so far I got dog barks kids crying, something that sounds like a anteater with arthritis... I'm puzzled...
0 Votes
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What? A bug in a newly released OS
bobiroc 12th Oct 2009
Especially from Apple.. Say it isn't so...
0 Votes
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It...Isn't...So!
Cosmo54 12th Oct 2009
...In their dreams. wink
0 Votes
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Funny, the MS bashers
JasonJD48 12th Oct 2009
were out in full force for the Windows Home Server data bug that seemed to occur in much more rare configurations than having a guest account enabled and using it.

I would normally say that all software has errors, no matter how well engineered and bug checked but the fact that its Apple adds a new dimension to it, when you put yourself on a nearly god-like pedestal, the larger the fall when it turns out they are a mere company run by mere mortals. Anyway, after this, the Mac vs PC commercials shouldbe banned as false advertising.
0 Votes
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Not to mention
ibarskiy@... 12th Oct 2009
That was v1 of a niche product and this is v10.6 of a purported mainstream product.

Things like this are why OSX will never be widely accepted in the enterprise.
0 Votes
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Apple Likes
bobiroc 12th Oct 2009
to play on myths. While Apple Branded Computers are good computers and their OS is a good OS it is far from being infallible but since somehow people got in their heads that Apple is perfect and defect free they try to use that to sell products. I on the other hand am a realist and know that People are not perfect therefore software developed by people will also not be perfect. I do agree that the commercials should be banned because I have seen too many times that people believe that MacOS is 100% Malware free and 100% Crash Proof and any consumers reading this don't take it the wrong way but most consumers are too lazy to take the time to research anything before they buy it and will believe commercials and the sales person. But that is OK I guess I will just make my side job money fixing infected Macs that people paid too much for and had windows installed on them with no protection because the commercials led them to believe that Apple Branded computers are virus free. And I use Apple Branded because since Apple's computers use the same hardware as other computer brands they no longer can say they make their own computers anymore.
0 Votes
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Depends
macgroover 13th Oct 2009
"seemed to occur in much more rare configurations than having a guest
account enabled and using it"

Unless the 'having a guest account enabled and using it' only happened
under itself extremely rare circumstances. This is a bad bug, but that's
why you backup, and it is trivially easy to do so on a Mac: plug in a disk.
0 Votes
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Mostly agree
use_what_works_4_U 13th Oct 2009
There must be something more required than simply enabling and using
the Guest account. Otherwise I, and a lot of people I know, would be
effected. No one I know is.

You are right, this is a bad bug, but it's not as simple as Guest account
usage = data loss. There is something else going on.
0 Votes
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Fact check this report first!
Appreciate-Tech 13th Oct 2009
What you read may well be what a person thinks not what they know!
0 Votes
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That's like comparing apples to oranges!
windozefreak 14th Oct 2009
nt
0 Votes
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God like pedestal? hardly
richardw66 13th Oct 2009
As I wrote above, Apple's installer tells you to back up in case it all
goes wrong.

As a long time computer user - (since 1977) I do not install a new OS
until at least the first round of updates.

If you actually listen to what the commercials are saying, then you'd
realise that this doesn't change anything.

What you'd like to believe they are saying is another matter, if you
believe they are claiming perfection then you can say stupid things
like 'God like pedestal'.

Mac OS is better - but not perfect:

does it crash under certain circumstances, yes
can it get viruses, yes

Does Apple say it cannot crash, no
Does Apple say it cannot get viruses, no

Does Apple say it does not get viruses as much as windows, yes
This is in my experience very, very true

Does Mac OS work better than Windows - in my experience, yes
And I use and provide support for Mac and Windows

And this is all that Apple is claiming - so the lie is not Apple's, it's
yours

0 Votes
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Which face of Apple?
Lester Young Updated - 14th Oct 2009
The one that advertises their systems as crash proof and virus proof, or the one giving advice AFTER people have forked over their cash based on their marketing? Telling the truth in one place doesn't mean they aren't lying in another place. (spelling edit)
0 Votes
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Which ad? Post a link
richardw66 14th Oct 2009
I have not seen any ad saying this - that of course doesn't mean there
isn't one.

If there is then show it to us please?

For one I will not be happy if Apple is saying this, but I await your
informing me.
0 Votes
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"Works without viruses or crashes or a ton of headaches"
Lester Young 14th Oct 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZRcYS88BwQ
0 Votes
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And where does she say can't crash, and can't possibly get a virus?
richardw66 17th Oct 2009
When the top end car makers advertise their cars as safe and the anti-
collision systems stop you from crashing, they do not mean that they
can't crash and that you can't die in an accident in them do they?

But if a car manufacturer sells a car the repeatedly crashes then they
end up being forced to recall it.

From the time of OS X onwards I have seen 1 virus infection on a Mac
and it was a Word macro virus.

My friends and familiy's Macs have an uptime measured in months,
and the restarts are a result of System updates.

If you compare this with the Friends PCs that are bogged down with
viruses, and need restarting often to be usable, even though they are
loaded with anti-virus software, then the point is valid.

Therefore from a user perspective these machines are working without
crashes or viruses.

All of the arguments about number of patches and possible holes are
irrelevant to the user, either they get viruses or they don't, In the case
of the Mac users they don't.
0 Votes
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Windows 7 protected by 50 foot castle walls designed by some old guy
richardw66 24th Oct 2009
I just saw it on the ad.

This guy on the ad decided that windows 7 should have walls like a
castle but really high.

So now Windows 7 is protected by 50 foot high castle walls, because
this guy on the ad thought of it.

He is windows apparently.

Amazing what you can learn from advertising when you take them
completely literally and stretch the point isn't it?

Now who's lying in their ads.

How many times has Microsoft claimed that they finally have a secure
OS?

Of course the question now is - have they got it right this time?
0 Votes
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Wouldn't this be a "Showstopper"?
clindhartsen 12th Oct 2009
I know I've heard this term before, but isn't this essentially what this would be. A major error that would likely, well, stop the show?

Anyone know how long before Apple will patch this, or admit that this has even happened?
0 Votes
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About 8-10 hours ago. (nt)
A Grain of Salt 12th Oct 2009
nt
0 Votes
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They have apparently admitted it
frgough 13th Oct 2009
Apple typically does their own internal investigation before confirming unsubstantiated reports (press reports to the contrary, it's not conspiratorial).

I'm more interested in seeing the QA people that let this get by get their butts fired.
0 Votes
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Have you ever done QA?
use_what_works_4_U 13th Oct 2009
Do you have any idea how many configurations would need to be
tested in order to verify this scenario? It's not simply a matter of
using the Guest account = losing your data. If this were so then I
would be hosed and I'm not. At least one of the first posters in the
Apple Discussions thread was also storing his home folder on a
separate partition from the OS. There are lots of good reasons to do
this, but it is a very unusual set up for OS X and not one that Apple
endorses.

There were much larger problems when 10.5 came out. People were
doing the upgrade and suddenly the OS would refuse to boot. Tens of
thousands of them. I was a Mac Genius then, and I was in the soup
over it. The cause for the vast majority of these problems was the use
of 3rd party system hacks which intentionally alter OS X in
unsupported ways.

It's not possible to test every set up. Should this have been caught?
Maybe, I don't know enough about the specifics. If so, then there
should be some repercussion. If, however, it turns out that the
effected computers also had some unsupported (even if common)
hack applied then the situation is radically different. You don't know.

What I want to see is Apple find out why people lost their account data
as well as why people like me (who should have according to the
information currently available) didn't and issue a solution
pronto. Then, and only then, if the bug should have been caught
action should be taken against those who missed it.
0 Votes
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Yes, I have
frgough 13th Oct 2009
It's called stress testing. You think of weird ways to use the system and then try it and see what happens.
0 Votes
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Negative path testing
use_what_works_4_U 13th Oct 2009
Stress testing is pushing the designed limits of a system. Negative path is using a system in ways that it was not designed to be used and thus trying to break it. My resume includes years of employment as a QA Analyst/Engineer and there is a big difference. The differences span approach, technique, results, and effort.

The problem with negative path testing is that there are usually thousands of possible paths to travel and confidently mapping them all out ahead of time is virtually impossible. That is why there will always be bugs.

Having said that, I agree that this seems like a bug that should have been found. "Happy path" testing - all scenarios as designed - may not have caught the issue. The reason is simple - many people like me who use the Guest Account and whose systems theoretically should have been effected were not. Negative testing, though, should have revealed the issue, and Apple absolutely MUST discover how it was missed. How obvious the problem turns out to be should determine what happens to those who missed it. If the system requires that it be modified first (and there are lots of cool mods that people do to Macs) then the depth/obviousness of the hack may have made it much more difficult to find the weakness. Many troubleshooting sites recommend modifying the core OS code with tools like Cocktail, Tinkertool, Onyx, etc... as a good idea. I use these tools also, but the reason I particularly like Cocktail is that it has a "reset" feature that lets me un-mod my system before upgrading the OS.

We will continue to disagree, but given the vast amount of code customization that goes on in the Mac community by people who don't realize that they are changing core OS code, the severity of a firing may not be appropriate. Let's see why it happened, then we can start stringing up people's careers.
0 Votes
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Possible test paths
richardw66 14th Oct 2009
This is also funny cause PC users used to tell me you couldn't
customise a Mac, problem is that you can and mac users do.

Having worked as a coder and had to work with QA I know what you
mean.

Management wanted everything tested by going through a step by
step list of what a user was expected to do. What's more they wanted
me as the coder to write the list.

I had to persuade them that this was the wrong way to test. The
software would always work if a user did exactly what the coder
expected.

This bug sounds remarkably like the reference to the guest folder
getting trashed, so "/Users " becomes "/Users" when
is cleared. This is the sort of issue that can happen by
an interaction between the intended code and some other code, or
maybe not thread-safe code or some such protection issue, null
pointer even. XCODE has tools to make it easier to find such issues.

The question is how do you test for every possible combination, it
isn't just thousands, it's more like millions, or billions.

When you write software for an OS or for distribution on the internet
even, you have a limited test base, maybe 1000 machines, to run
through every combination you can think of - so you may get
100,000 days of test time.

Once you release the software to a user base of say 5,000,000 users,
in 1 day they have done more testing than you could ever do.
probability tells you that whatever combination you missed could
show up every combination you didn't think of testing.

So the highest likely failure count on day one of install is 4,900,000
failures.

Consider that every time you get a new OS from any vendor.
0 Votes
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Whether it be Apple or PC...
spacecase2 12th Oct 2009
If you don't back up your data - you will eventually lose it.
It doesn't matter so much how you lose it, if you don't
back-up (Apple, Windows Linux) you'll lose it.

I seem to recall that when Vista came out and Outlook was
replaced by Windows live, it trashed everyones email by
flattening the email folder and merging all groups into 1
long list of emails and contacts. Your folders and groups
were gone. That sure made a lot of people unhappy. It
was nice that MS finally admitted it was a bug, and fixed it
a year later.

As a previous poster said "imperfect people write
imperfect software". Something we'll just have to accept in
modern times.

Oh yeah - don't forget to backup...
0 Votes
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Or Paper hard copies. for that matter
Grey Ash 14th Oct 2009
Back the hell up out of anything important, try to get youself backed up..Seriously, use the 3+Backup rules that we use in Recording Studios, and store it off site if possible.
Hard Disk Drive, Flash drive, Dvd/CD/BLUERAY, and I know that it may sound wacky, but if possible ( this relates more to Music i suppose,)Magnetic media, why? Because analog hardware using magnetic media is super easy to build from the ground up, if need be in the future, I use flash drive, Minidisc,Cd, DVD, and make more than one copy of the optica;l and hdd media, I also use magnetic tape, casette, Reel to Reel 1/4",Check your media too, for degradation, Re-Record your magneticts, and theres also some very cool software for recoving bad spots on older CD.s
0 Votes
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You're quite an ardent apologist...
Feldwebel Wolfenstool 13th Oct 2009
...for His Royal Steveness. Maybe he'll send you a free laptop...
0 Votes
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SL is a great upgrade it's so much faster...
faxmonkey 13th Oct 2009
After about 30 days of using SL, The OS seemed to have gotten faster. It reminded me of the times when i would format and install a fresh copy of WinXP. It was fast and slick. Then i realized CRAP all my data is gone! It is a fresh install!

wink

0 Votes
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To actually answer the question posed ...
use_what_works_4_U 13th Oct 2009
No, this bug has not lost any data of mine. My system setup is
exactly the setup which is at risk. I have the Guest account
enabled, it remained enabled throughout the upgrade, and it has been
disabled and re-enabled since. According to all the reports I
should have lost my main user identity by now. I have not. I
have contacted six or eight other Mac users with similar settings and
none have fallen victim to the bug. One of those users has 3
machines that were theoretically vulnerable.

Having said all of that, I also incrementally clone my main drive every
day and when I updated my Mac I physically removed the clone drive
from my system just to be certain that my backup would remain safe
since I was upgrading on release day (10.6.0). I left it removed from
the system for over a week. Nothing replaces a good back up
strategy.
0 Votes
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Same here
frgough 13th Oct 2009
beware of the internet echo chamber. The bug may not be as straightforward as people who lost their data claims it is.
0 Votes
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My point exactly
use_what_works_4_U 13th Oct 2009
And that is also the impetus behind my reply to your comment 6.2
above.
0 Votes
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RE: Has the Snow Leopard bug hosed your data?
shellcodes_coder 13th Oct 2009
yes it has, on oct 22. this iMac will exclusively boot Windows 7, no more crap os x
0 Votes
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How about one of the ZDNet reporters interviews this guy
richardw66 14th Oct 2009
I would love to know if you are real.
0 Votes
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Wow the trolls are loose
someitguy79 13th Oct 2009
I can't think of any OS upgrade that I didn't have a backup or didn't care. Saying that. No I didn't have any issues like stated. Only a toddler shut a macbook mid upgrade and it wouldn't boot. I took the opportunity to nuke the system install 10.5 and then upgrade 10.6 again. Ran manual restore from time machine. Easiest recovery of a system ever.

I don't know of any mac user's that say their system is perfect. Just simpler and with less headaches. I have found this to be true.
0 Votes
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They may not say it but they sure act like it.
ye 13th Oct 2009
I don't know of any mac user's that say their system is perfect.

Otherwise they wouldn't jump all over every bug in Windows.

Just simpler and with less headaches. I have found this to be true.

I haven't. I've found neither to be simpler and less of a headache than the other. They're just different.
0 Votes
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Not unlike T-Mobiles sidekick where all the data got hosed.
Intellihence Updated - 13th Oct 2009
Hmmm?
  • Flagged
0 Votes
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Burying your head in the sand again are we?
ye Updated - 13th Oct 2009
Why else would they continue to coverup Microsoft's shortcoming.

"The aftermath of the T-Mobile Chernobyl"

http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=11306

"T-Mobile offers Sidekick customers $100 credit"

http://blogs.zdnet.com/cell-phones/?p=2289

"Danger/Microsoft lose ALL Sidekick data, do not reset your device"

http://blogs.zdnet.com/cell-phones/?p=2280&tag=col1;post-2289

"Sidekick data outage tests mettle of 800,000 customers"

http://blogs.zdnet.com/gadgetreviews/?p=8306

Interesting definition of cover up you've got there.
0 Votes
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You sound like an apologist for the NY Times.
frgough 13th Oct 2009
They printed the story. Where? Page 36.
0 Votes
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Yeah but according to Ye
Intellihence 13th Oct 2009
Microsoft has a perfect track record. Let me boot up in Windows 7 & let
me see how big patch tuesday is.

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