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Hardware 2.0

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

How a Mac Mini can beat a quad-core Vista behemoth (or how Apple can't write good software for Windows)

By | October 7, 2008, 7:06am PDT

Summary: Here’s a tale of how a humble Mac Mini system outperformed my cutting-edge quad-core system. It’s also a story of how Apple can’t write good software for the Windows platform.

Here’s a tale of how a humble Mac Mini system outperformed my cutting-edge quad-core system. It’s also a story of how Apple can’t write good software for the Windows platform.

QuickTime hates WindowsThe other day I was chatting to George Ou about professional grade digital SLR cameras that offer 1080p video capability. He then mentioned how his system (an Intel Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHz PC system with an NVIDIA 8800GT GPU) couldn’t handle 1080p H.264 QuickTime movies.

Thinking that it might be an issue with his system, I downloaded some test clips and tried playing them with Apple QuickTime on my 3.0GHz quad-core QX9650 Vista 64-bit system - This rig is kitted out with Velociraptor drives, 8GB of fast RAM and a Crossfire quad-GPU setup. The results - Awful. The clip was jerky and juddery, and while not technically unwatchable, I really didn’t want to spend too long looking at it.

Note: If you want some sample 1080p H.264 QuickTime movies to try out at home then check out this page and scroll to the bottom for the clips we are using.

Now let’s get some perspective on this. My system is capable of flawless Blu-ray H.264 1080p video playback and so the system is operating normally. However, just to be sure that this wasn’t some random issue I also tried the clip on a few other systems that are not as powerful as my rig, but still very capable (all get a top score of 5.9 on the Windows Experience Index scale). Same results. The video seem to stutter every second or so and this continues throughout the clip. I then tried some other clips. Same results. I swapped out the video card in my system for an NVIDIA 280GTX graphics card. Same results. I tried Vista 32-bit and Vista 64-bit. Same results. No matter how much hardware I threw at the problem, the stuttering video persisted.

George suggested that I try the clip out on my 1.66 GHz Mac Mini system that kitted out with 512 MB of RAM. Compared to the quad-core system the Mac Mini is very, very low-end. So how does the Mac Mini running QuickTime handle these test clips? It plays them back flawlessly.

So, is the Mac Mini’s hardware superior to that of the quad-core rig? Of course not. OK then, it it down to the OS? Is the Mac OS superior to Windows? Is there no way to get 1080p H.264 QuickTime movies to play smoothly on Windows? Well, there a simple test we can do. Let’s check out whether any of the third-party media players can give smooth, unstuttered playback.

There are a few alternatives to Apple’s QuickTime software on the Windows platform. For example, there’s QuickTime Alternative and VLC Media player. I have VLC installed on several systems so I tried the clips again. Result? Flawless playback.

So what’s the deal? 1080p H.264 QuickTime movies play fine on the Mac Mini through QuickTime, and they play fine on Windows when using third party media players. So the issue is here isn’t which OS is best, or which platform is best, it’s all down to Apple’s QuickTime player for Windows not being up to the job.

Note: I’m going to ignore the fact that QuickTime virtually offers door into people’s PCs for any hackers willing to use it.

Once again, it seems that Apple just can’t write decent code for the Windows platform. That may be because Apple doesn’t have the in-house skill to develop good software, or it may be down to some decision to make Mac OS seem better than the Windows platform. Either way, vendors who adopt Apple’s QuickTime MOV format for their hardware (such as Canon with the EOS 5P Mark II) need to be aware of the fact that Windows users are getting a poor product experience thanks to the poor performance of QuickTime. 

Thoughts?

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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RE: How a Mac Mini can beat a quad-core Vista behemoth (or how Apple can't write good software for Windows)
wjgrimm 8th Nov 2008
Hmmm...Could it be that the Mini uses hardware more efficiently than WinBloat? My BSD machines all do things faster and better than my Windows machine, and OSX's base OS is very BSD-like. Windows is crap as OS's go. Compare CIFS speeds with what's available in the UNIX world- it kicks WinBloats performance all over the place. Sorry, don't blame Apple for crappy software- blame M$ for a crappy OS.
0 Votes
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Apple has historically had an edge with video editing / graphical design applications. Now, since they've moved to an Intel platform, any hardware advantages have now been eliminated.

Apple makes money from selling computers, not software (generally). So, why is it in Apple's best interest to sink a lot of time and effort to make the best Windows apps possible? If they did, there would be no reason to switch!

I mean, if someone went into an Apple store complaining about iTunes or Quicktime, would corporate want the "geniuses" to say "oh, just wait. We're going to put out a new release of iTunes for the PC in a couple of weeks" or "a patch is coming for Quicktime on windows soon.".. Or, would it be better to say, "Hey, it works great on this Mac here. Try it.. Wanna buy it?"

It's not hard to figure that one out.
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LOL! That's funny.
Joe_Raby 7th Oct 2008
"if someone went into an Apple store complaining about iTunes or Quicktime, would corporate want the "geniuses" to say "oh, just wait. We're going to put out a new release of iTunes for the PC in a couple of weeks" or "a patch is coming for Quicktime on windows soon.".. Or, would it be better to say, "Hey, it works great on this Mac here. Try it.. Wanna buy it?""

It's funny because they do the same thing to many pre-existing Apple Mac and iPod customers.
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Need to support Windows
logic_earth 7th Oct 2008
"Apple makes money from selling computers, not software (generally). So, why is it in Apple's best interest to sink a lot of time and effort to make the best Windows apps possible? If they did, there would be no reason to switch!"

As of late, the majority of there profits come from devices like the iPod. If Apple did not release there software onto Windows do you think the iPod would succeed?

Apple needs to support the Windows platform, if they keep dropping the ball like this, going to find themselves losing profits very quickly.
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Yup
Joe_Raby 7th Oct 2008
The Windows customer base IS their customer base for iPods after all. It's been proven already that the number of people that switch from Windows to Mac is by no means due to some "good experience" that they have with the iPod. In fact, with these latest stability and BSOD issues that Apple is introducing in iTunes 8, is it any wonder that people don't consider them to be perpetuating the myths that Windows Vista is unstable through the use of sabotage?
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Sabotage?
aj.redmond@... 8th Oct 2008
Listen Joe, Apple is only guilty of playing the same game MS has been playing for years. The best version of Mac Excel and Word were the very first ones available on the Mac in 1985. Since then, MS keeps bloating up the software to the point that they are now like driving a governed, overloaded Truck. Most Mac people are switching to Apple's Pages and Numbers software now instead.

Internet Explorer on the Mac was another example of MS's lack of commitment to the Mac platform. MS released a Mac version of IE in 1996. It was a fast, very well designed browser. Bill Gates said he was committed to the Mac platform in 1998 when he announced a partnership with Apple. By 2001, IE was discontinued on the Mac platform and Apple was forced to come up with their own browser, Safari.

This is no different than any other business on the planet. Every company wants to sell their own technology as complete solutions - razors and blades. Vacuum cleaner manufacturers want to sell their own bags, so they design their machines to only run their products.

This can also be called the not invented here syndrome. And you are probably just noticing this now because of Apple's increasing success in breaking into the Windows marketplace. Mac users have been putting up with this nonsense ever since the birth of the Mac.

Let's face it, MS is still the biggest kid on the block. Apple just wants to play a little more in the sandbox. Get used to this, you are going to see this happen a lot in the future. Both from MS and Apple.
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Check again
gadgetlover 8th Oct 2008
If I remember correctly, MS did not discontinue IE on the Mac
until Apple had already released Safari, not the opposite that
you indicated.
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Yes - but No
Deanbar 8th Oct 2008
As I recall, MS had already given notice well in advance that
they would be discontinuing IE for the Mac, so that by then,
Safari was introduced.
they actually had a different file format and everything so that
there would be built in compatibility problems... the problems
are now a thing of the past since the Mac and PC versions use
the exact same file format.

and this is why i believe MS purposely made IE standards non-
compliant... after they got over 90% marketshare.. this website
doesn't look right in Fireworks... awe forget firefox and use IE..
now that IE has less than 80% market share sudenly... IE 8 will
be standards compliant...

it may be that apple just doesn't have the expertise in-house but
i may also be that they are simply playing the game...
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Apple playing the game...
Oddmoore 8th Oct 2008
I agree. That was my immediate conclusion after finishing the story. Seems we would "ALL" be better served if they could just learn to play nice. Lol
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When you enjoy 90% market share ...
mwagner@... 8th Oct 2008
... you can afford to "play the game" (until someone accuses you of being anti-competitive) but Apple cannot play that game and win.

It is safe to say that the VAST MAJORITY of iPod owners sync their devices on a Windows PC. If Apple wants to push video on the iPod they damned well have to make sure their video players run properly on Windows platforms.
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Gosh, a LOT of Windows users buy iPods and iPhones. Unfortunately, Apple has always treated Windows users as second class citizens. You might think that's funny and Apple might think this helps sell Macs, but it ultimately harms their business.
i'm on a Mac and i have only open quicktime only a handfull of
times in the past year.. and not even to play .mov files, but to play
.wmv files via Flip4Mac.

you can play H.264 and MPEG4 files in iTunes (Mac & PC) and in
Frontrow (Mac)... there just isn't a lot of reason to open Quicktime
these days.. even on a mac.

i'm thinking that they must be saying that quicktime on a PC is
pretty damn low on the totem pole in terms of priority... how many
people on PCs actually use Quicktime... likely not that many

how do H.264 and MPEG4 play in iTunes on a PC... i'm guessing
pretty damn good.. why? iTunes on PC is high priority
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Its just as bad in iTunes
Azriphale 8th Oct 2008
Just checked for you (first time I have used iTunes in
over a year - moved away from it with the release of
7.0). The reason is simple. iTunes uses the QuickTime
engine to play videos - the reason the iTunes
installer install QuickTime.
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I agree, apple software stinks
stano360 8th Oct 2008
I guess as a Windows user (XP & Vista) I have never been encouraged to buy a Mac based on their software. Quicktime has always been junky. iTunes? I really don't get what the fuss is about, it's ok. I had to teach my 12yr old how to sync his ipod, not any more user friendly the Realplayer or WMP. Only easier to buy new songs, believe it or not there are a lot of people that don't know how to rip a cd!

All in all, I took off Quicktime from my system because of all the security issues and the demands for me to install iTunes (a beast that takes over your systems media).

But I come away thinking why even bother with a mac? Keep in mind I have a low need to fit in or appear like the guy in the mac commercials that lives in his parents basement uploading videos to youtube.
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Well, George, historically MS has also treated Mac users as
2nd class citizens. As already posted, all Companies try to
protect their business by whatever means they can, it's par
for the course.
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Let's not forget that Microsoft SAVED Apple with their late 90s deal and putting out Mac Office.
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No matter how many times..
Rick_K 9th Oct 2008
...You repeat that lie, that's all it is. A company that has $1
billion in cash reserves, is not going to be saved by some
other company buying $150 million in non voting stock. The
office for Mac was used to push IE. Microsoft has since then
sold the stock (for a god profit). Again how was this
Microsoft "Saving" Apple? Only delusional mind would
believe that.
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That is No Lie
lthrwolftx Updated - 9th Oct 2008
If it were not for Microsoft's cash infusion , I think it was around 160 million of cash. Apple would not be here today. At that time Apple was in REALLY bad shape.
Don't get me wrong. Im no Apple hater. But that's what happened. In return Apple made IE the default web browser for Mas OS for a few years. And MS contihued to make Office for the Mac Platform.
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wasnt that
richvball44 13th Oct 2008
part of a settlement MS had due to patent infringements on Quicktime?
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No
mustangj36@... 17th Oct 2008
nt
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That's a myth...
Spiritusindomit@... 8th Oct 2008
Historically, they gained that reputation by having the first 256 colour screen available to consumers on a large scale.

Their hardware was on par with average pcs, and much higher priced, throughout the 90s and since 2001, their machines have fallen behind.

The biggest issue now is even with their highest level machines, you have poor if any support for high end graphics cards, and a complete lockin as far as drivers are concerned.

Of course, those same machines apparently emit toxic gas, so, they're not exactly batting a thousand of late.
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The reason why they SHOULD write ...
mwagner@... 8th Oct 2008
... good QuickTime software for Windows is to support iTunes.

While Apple might not want to make Windows look good -- a lot of iTunes customers are also Windows customers. Customers Apple cannot afford to lose.

If the iTunes services cannot deliver what the customer wants, they will switch services -- not go out and buy a new computer.

Apple owes a great deal of its financial stability to Windows users who own iPods and playing video on a PC is becoming an ever more important part of the iTunes universe.

If Apple doesn't address this problem, they are shooting themselves in the head.
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quicktime
rparker009 8th Oct 2008
That is one of the worst codecs for video anyway... There are much better ones
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Unfortunately
tikigawd 8th Oct 2008
Vendors are using this crappy codec in video cameras, etc...
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H.264
Azriphale 8th Oct 2008
has been acclaimed as one of the leading MPEG-4 codecs
around. Before Apple switched to using H.264 in their
QuickTime videos, however, I would have agreed with
you completely. Unfortunately, I don't have any
material to back up what I have just said happy

Personally, I still prefer XviD for various reasons
including good video quality, open source, and it
plays well with just about any software.
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Luckily for everyone...
nix_hed 27th Oct 2008
...H.264 is also part of VideoLAN Client. Free and Open
Source, and lets you convert from one CODEC to another.
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I would agree
Paul Fletcher 27th Oct 2008
QuickTime always has been crap on the PC, there are way beter video codces out there/
What a joke of a company...

Apple's failure in treating the Windows platform with the same degree of respect they show their own platform has been enough for me to discount them as a company I want to sponsor. Unfortunately a lot of people can't see past this blatant underhandedness, and blame Windows for Apple's blunders (I'm strictly speaking about crappy Apple software written for Windows).
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Something that Apple won't do:
Joe_Raby 7th Oct 2008
Test, and CERTIFY their apps and hardware for Windows.

But then, they'd have the "Certified for Windows" labels on everything. Obviously being Apple, they wouldn't care to tout that ability.

Another reason they won't do it: it would require that iPods be compatible with PlaysForSure DRM, which is now part of the logo certification requirements for PMP's on Windows.
I like my Mac Mini a lot more than my high-end Vista
machine. My productivity on it is about 2 to 1. I do Web,
video and music authoring, photo editing, sound editing and
movie editing.

I also run a database of about 9,000 customers.
WAH WAH WAH.

Don't use Quicktime. Use one of the superior windows products.
I thought you could do ANYTHING BETTER on a win machine.

Sorry.... you f-ed' up buying a box of fancy parts that don't work
together
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"Don't use Quicktime."
Joe_Raby 7th Oct 2008
I don't. Apple software will never get installed on my systems again. I'm recommending Zune software and hardware now that version 3 is better than anything that Apple has, and it works on Windows Vista. Not to mention that it also supports H.264 video.
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what have you been smoking man..? time to get off of the
crack pipe!
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Comparing?
logic_earth Updated - 7th Oct 2008
I don't see anyone comparing a Zune to an iPod Touch (aka. PDA).
Maybe you need glasses?

Btw, Apple has more versions of iPods then just Touch, two of which Classic and Nano are comparative to one of the Zune versions. IPod Touch is not comparable, compare it to a PDA since that what it is.
this is what he wrote.. my emphasis...

"I'm recommending Zune software and hardware now that
version 3 is better than ANYTHING that Apple has..."

ANYTHING... do you understand the meaning of anything?
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Can't compare anything
logic_earth Updated - 8th Oct 2008
But you are the one that wanted to compare it to something out of its category. iPod Touch is a different device then the iPod Classic/Nano and the Zune. Would you compare a Zune to a Mac Mini as you put it is part of anything? I don't think you would, sense the two are different devices in two different categories.
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Don't bother
tikigawd 8th Oct 2008
trying to sway a Kool-Aid chugger.

It's a waste of time.
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Yeah, don't bother
massivegas 8th Oct 2008
The next thing you know, he'll be bringing up iLife
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not hardwareMaclover
Paul Fletcher 27th Oct 2008
software Quicktime on Windows is so bad - I would rather not view something that use it
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You are...
cashaww 8th Oct 2008
recommending Zune?
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I would
tikigawd 8th Oct 2008
You should try it.

The only thing an iPod (classic and nano) has on the Zune is market share. Aside from that the Zune beats the iPod in terms of features and quality, hardware and softwarewise, hands down.

http://reviews.cnet.com/mp3-players/microsoft-zune-120gb-third/4505-6490_7-33259222.html?tag=mncol;txt
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I would too
logic_earth 8th Oct 2008
I have the second gen 4 GB Zune, upgraded the firmware to version 3 when it came out. No complaints it does exactly what it is suppose to do, Play Music! It does offer addition features like Video, Pictures, and FM Radio but I really don't use those as I only have a music collection.
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Don't forget
tikigawd 8th Oct 2008
Wi-fi capability allowing you to:
- sync wirelessly
- listen to Channels if you're in a wi-fi hotspot
- buy music directly onto the device if you're in a wi-fi hotspot

Games:
Granted, so far there are only two, but more are coming. And they also added them for those of us with older versions (2nd gen, in my case), not just 3rd gen owners.
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Games
logic_earth Updated - 8th Oct 2008
For all Zunes even the very first Zune has the same support for games. (It just lacks the touch pad)

On a plus anyone can create a game or even an application using Microsoft XNA 3. Completely free and without restrictions. This same program can make games for Windows and Xbox.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zune_games
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_XNA
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taking back camera
tbuccelli 27th Oct 2008
I just bought a new Canon camera this weekend (970 I
believe) which replaced a earlier model (5X0 series)
that the kids "handled". The first thing I noticed is
that the movie clips were now QuickTime. When we tried
to play them they were jerky and kept cutting out. The
camera will be going back as even though I could
install one of the alternative players mentioned
above, you cannot be certain that everyone you may
share something with has. If Apple wants to play these
games they are welcome to, but I will be sure to let
Canon know why they are getting back a "defective"
camera (via Costco).
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Happens everywhere.
Win3.1 7th Oct 2008
I'm guessing the difficulties that result in not being able to
write video players for an OS other than the OS manufacturer
is one of the reasons MS completely dropped a Mac version
of WMP (which now is provided by a plugin financed by MS
called Flip4MAC) Having in years past tried to use WMP for
Mac I'm sure the situation would be similar to what we're
seeing here with QT on Vista. Personally I don't have 64 Vista
so I can't confirm what you're seeing but I tend to lag about
3 years behind on Windows since it takes a while to iron
things out. I guess until I stop seeing stories like this I'll stick
with XP.
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Really?
Ben_E 7th Oct 2008
Because I downloaded a new verison of Media Player for Mac from MS' website about a week ago - works fine with all MS formats now...
you may want to read this... i.e. the fine print of what you
downloaded...

"Important Information
Microsoft will continue to offer Windows Media Player for
Mac as a download free of charge, but has no plans to
provide future updates or product support.

We are pleased to offer Windows Media? Components for
Quicktime, by Flip4Mac?, as an alternative for Mac OS X
users wanting to play Windows Media Audio and Windows
Media Video.

As with other dated Microsoft products, peer-to-peer
support will continue on the Microsoft-hosted Newsgroups
Web site."

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/player
/mac/mp9/default.aspx
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I stand corrected (nt)
Ben_E 7th Oct 2008
nt
Ive eliminated Apple malware from my computer probably about a year ago - im not missing anything except keeping that door open for the hackers courtesy of apples software. If it doesnt play in Windows media player? Oops sorry - it looses out. Same has gone for real player....that mess is filled with exploits.

But as another poster pointed out, why would apple want to give the windows user a great viewing experience? Because they wouldnt have anyone to switch over now would they?
Hmmm...Could it be that the Mini uses hardware more efficiently than WinBloat? My BSD machines all do things faster and better than my Windows machine, and OSX's base OS is very BSD-like. Windows is crap as OS's go. Compare CIFS speeds with what's available in the UNIX world- it kicks WinBloats performance all over the place. Sorry, don't blame Apple for crappy software- blame M$ for a crappy OS.

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