ie8 fix
madison

Hardware 2.0

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

How Apple gained the upper hand on Microsoft

By | November 20, 2008, 9:07am PST

Summary: I’ve just been working my way through hundreds of emails released as part of the Vista Capable lawsuit and there’s one phrase that keep coming across that might explain why Apple got the upper hand on Microsoft with Vista.

I’ve just been working my way through hundreds of emails released as part of the Vista Capable lawsuit (if you want to read along at home with me, you can download them from here) and there’s one phrase that keep coming across that might explain why Apple got the upper hand on Microsoft with Vista.

The phrase is “Good Better Best” and it’s used by Microsoft engineers and executives to describe the different different Windows Vista experience that users would get depending on the level of hardware available.

Now, I’m not going to argue that on many levels, different hardware will give you a different experience. For example, a better GPU will give you a better gaming experience, better CPU will make transcoding video faster, a bigger hard drive lets you store more data, a TV tuner lets you … well, you get the idea. But what happened with Windows Vista was that there was a transition point where the level of hardware (specifically the GPU) gave users a wholly different user interface experience. Whether you consider the Aero UI to be important or not, to the average consumer who’d seen Vista ads, it’s a tough deal to explain why their Vista looks different to the Vista on TV or the Vista they saw in the store.

Enter Apple and the Mac. Having handled a number of Macs one thing stands out - the Mac experience on one model is pretty much the same as the Mac experience you get on another model. In fact, you can take an old Mac and upgrade the OS and get pretty much the same experience as buying a new Mac. Sure, the speed won’t be the same, and how much you can store on the disk might be less, but the Mac experience doesn’t vary that much from system to system.

Bottom line, the Mac experience removes uncertainty. You can be totally oblivious to GPUs, MHz, Intel, AMD, SATA, ATI, NVIDIA, [insert pretty much any term you can think of] … buy a Mac, and get the same Mac experience as “Bill next door” or “Joe the Plumber.”

Too many flavors, too many uncertainties … I hope to see fewer of both of these as Windows 7 gets ready for launch. Microsoft needs to work closer with OEM partners to make the entry level as easy and as painless as possible for causal users who aren’t interested in what makes their PCs tick. Right now, given that 50% of those buying Macs are new to the platform, I’d guess that things aren’t as painless as they could be.

How much is certainty worth to the end user?

Kick off your day with ZDNet's daily e-mail newsletter. It's the freshest tech news and opinion, served hot. Get it.

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

200
Comments

Join the conversation!

Just In

Rules for trolls
rahbm 19th Feb 2009
#1 - Never let the facts get in the way. This applies equally to ALL trolls
and shills, whether NBM, ABM, pro-Mac or pro-Linux.

#2 - Always press home any chance to make MS look bad. The advantage
here for ABM trolls is that MS gives them so much rich material!
deliver one version that works and has everything. The sleazy marketing tricks to try and squeeze every last penny out of customers just hurt MS in the long run and create confusion.
0 Votes
+ -
That can't happen even if Microsoft wanted
timiteh Updated - 23rd Nov 2008
Are you aware of the silly requirement of the E.U that
Microsoft sell a version of Windows without IE or
Windows player (as if there is a single modern O.s
sold nowadays without at least a browser or a media
player) ?
Are you aware that Microsoft has been forced to lower
the security of Vista 64 bits because AV companies
complain that Microsoft is doing unfair competition as
they were unable to install their AV software on this
O.S thanks to its awesore kernel protection mecanism ?
So you can be pretty sure that E.U and other antitrust
regulation entities will strike at Microsoft as soon
as they decide to do that as a significant number of
companies will be too happy to accuse Microsoft of
doing unfair competition by packing so much features
with all Windows sold.
versions that MS is creating is their own doing. They were under NO obligation by the courts to create "Window Home Basic".
0 Votes
+ -
Nice one Adrian u proved my point.
mrjoctave@... 20th Nov 2008
Some one said (ole man) they can't see how non-tech users (which at the time i called dumb users) can influence the market.

Apple already provide what Adrian wants from Windows, so why should Windows adopt the Apple style of doing things, its a simple choice if you don't like all the options of being able to improve your system as and when you please because you'd rather not or dont have the time/know how to do so then get an Apple Mac.

But i enjoy adding, upgrading and configuring my systems to improve performance for specific tasks when and how i want and so do many others.

Now Donieboy says MS is creating its own problem, but i disagree, i think its people like Adrian and those non-tech users that are causing the problem, they want things simpler and easier and more conformed to there non tech needs, but rather then seek the alternatives such as Apple they would rather make a whole lot of noise, not a problem but Microsoft sees what i see, a growing market of non-tech users much bigger then the technical user market and democracy says the majority rules.

If Microsoft wants to keep its share of the market its gonna have to bow to the pressures of the non-tech market at the expense of the now smaller technical user market, if that happens, i can say bye to the upgrading and experimenting, so MS are trying to cater for the two and bungling it up hence Vista, not that Vista itself is bungled but the fact that its trying to appease two clearly distinct markets that use to be one market is proving to be a problem. I personally hope they get it right so i and many others will still be able to do what we want with our systems when we want as opposed to being told what we can and can't have and do.

So yes they are under obligation if they want to retain there market share, not by the courts but by the non tech user, who could of imagined that, MS being held to ransom by non techies.
0 Votes
+ -
I agree
timiteh Updated - 21st Nov 2008
But Microsoft can solve this problem by increasing the
difference between editions and the respective added
value of each edition.
Microsoft should clearly identify the different type
of markets,acknowledge the competitors for each market
and do their best to provide the most valuable
offering for each market.
I personnaly see 4 markets:

1)Low cost PC:
Main competitor:Linux
Suggested Windows Edition: New edition aimed at this
market, could be called Basic
This market as a fantastic growth potential and
currently Microsoft is unable to efficiently compete
there as their only offering is an outdated O.S which
is significantly weaker than competitors.
A specially optimised edition for the kind of hardware
used in netbooks and other low cost PC, should enable
Microsoft to get a significant share of this promising
market.
For example this edition could be optimised for
installation on SSD and have a smaller as possible
disk footprint for this purpose. I know that efforts
are being done with Windows 7 for this purpose, but a
specific edition would be better according to me.
This edition should have both home and business
features,not all the features of Home and Business
editions, but a significant number of them.

2)Home Users
Main competitor:Apple and to a lesser extent some
Linux distro such as Ubuntu.
Suggested Windows Edition: Home
This market is where Microsoft has the most to lose at
the hands of Apple.
Thus here Microsoft must focus on the overall
experience and work very closely with OEM to insure
that the end user experience is similar or superior to
the one offered by Mac.
Microsoft could favor OEM making special effort to
significantly increase the user experience.
For example Microsoft can give them a rebate or help
them fund their marketing campaign.

3)Business Users:
Main competitors:Linux and Unix
Suggested Windows Edition: Business
For this market what matter the most are backward
compatibility,efficiency,customability and
flexibility.
I personnaly believe that Windows business should be
closer in philosophy and default settings to Windows
Server than to the other Windows client.
I think that Business users should be able to have
their O.S customised as they need either by themselves
or by IT people of their enterprises.

4)Enthusiasts as well as some niche business users
Main competitor:Apple
Suggested Windows Edition: Ultimate
This market is an interesting one as even if Apple is
a significant threat, Windows has still enough
advantage to be the dominitating O.S for a significant
number of years.
However this doesn't mean that Microsoft shouldn't
make any effort there. Like for Home users market, a
special focus should be put on seemless
experience.Considering the high end nature of the
offering in this market, it should be easier for both
Microsoft and OEM to offer a seemless and great user
experience. Moreover Microsoft should take advantage
of the specific advantages offered only by their
ecosystem. Microsoft could also for example fund
marketing campaign to help sell revolutionary or
extraordinary offering of their partners. I find for
example disturbing that tool such as the Toshiba G50
and F50 get close to no specific covering, despites
the inner revolution represented by their cell based
multimedia processors.Finally, Microsoft could
encourage fewer though much higher value and build
quality offering per partners for this market. To take
again the case of Toshiba, a fusion of the Toshiba
Qosmio G50 and of the Toshiba Qosmio X300 would have
been outstanding.
0 Votes
+ -
Why is yet another edition called for?
progress76 21st Nov 2008
I have a suggestion. (Microsoft, are you listening?)

Here is my suggestion:

Dear Santa--

I would like Microsoft to release only two editions of Windows: A server edition designed to run on a server for 10 years with proper updates.
A client edition designed from the ground up to provide a consistent but widely adjustable user environment-- and a kernel smart enough to properly detect the resources that are available to it. Please do not hurry to release it. We've already been waiting since NT4.

There is no reason whatever for there to be more than just client and server. Client can have all the options in the world. Making people pay extra for intangibles such as OS features is just profiteering. It's like selling water for $50 a bottle just because everyone is thirsty.
0 Votes
+ -
I disagree
perversion2003@... 21st Nov 2008
Windows7 should have 1 edition. But have add-ons, free or otherwise, to bring the total OS up to whatever standards a person or business wants.
0 Votes
+ -
I don't think so
timiteh Updated - 23rd Nov 2008
I don't think that only one edition is a viable for
solution for the Microsoft model.
I think that the illusion that only one edition of
Windows would be enough for the PC market come both
from the lack of enough differentiation between the
editions and from inappropriate comparison with
Apple.
Sure Microsoft could release one edition of Windows
and let the OEM or the users customize it the way they
want.
However, last time i check most OEM are unable to
correctly configure and set O.S,and to some extent the
additional software, bundled with their products hence
the overall significantly lower end user experience of
most Windows loaded PC compared to Macs.Another proof
of that is the poor end user experience that users
have with some Linux loaded netbooks(MSI Wind,anyone ?
).Most customers don't have the knowledge and the
capabilities to customize the software of their PC
so they rely on OEM to do it for them.
In such a context the release of different editions of
Windows in order to help both the OEM and the
customers to get out of the box ,a closer to what they
need O.S is all but a luxury. If OEM get out of the
box almost what they need ,and as most of them won't
need the additional features that all in one O.S will
offer, then there is no reason that one pay for a
whole set of features one won't need or even use.
Hence the requirement that different editions get a
different price.

Now we all agree that Windows is overpriced and that
significantly lower prices would be fair for everyone
but Microsoft shareholders, but i personnaly could
care less if they have a few less hundred millions to
share at the next distribution of money.
Additionally, Microsoft need to increase the
differentiation of their editions as well as their
individual added value.Thus it will better enable
those asking for only one edition of Windows, to see
what can be achieved with optimized ,for different
needs, edition of Windows.
For example if Business edition was
closer in behavior and default settings to Windows
Server than to Home Premium, was far more
scalable,customizable and backward compatible, then i
am pretty sure that it would be significantly more
popular.If Ultimate edition offered significantly more
added value and was part of optimized vertical
solutions,then it would have certainly been way more
popular and could have been a significant threat for
Mac.Finally,if Home basic,had the appropriate business
features and was strongly optimized for low end
PC,then it would work fine with netbooks and Microsoft
wouldn't need to use this obsolete O.S called XP for
these promising new products.
0 Votes
+ -
It was done for the mass market from the beginning. If you are on the technical side, you really should give Linux a serious try. It is made by techies, it is VERY techie and it also has a graphic ui! AMAZING!
0 Votes
+ -
I understand the concept but....
mrjoctave@... 21st Nov 2008
When MS developed OS's they were not for the home/personal user because there were not that many individuals that had a computer at home, so the natural target was businesses.

As the markets developed and the new breed of home users started to grow and the buzz on the streets was computing every body wanted to know everything about computers hence the tech user market was born, then the internet evolved to become a commercial vechicle and as it grew in popularity so a new market appeared, the internet user.

Many started wanted to know more about the internet so was born a semi tech market, i say semi tech because the internet is only a small part of computer capabilities, now as the internet has become common place you have the non-tech user that just wants to surf or play. Hence MS problems with trying to cater for the segmented market that was once a single market.

I actually have several Linux/Unix systems that i use for my research and testing lab. I use Windows for managing my business/partnerships and other work/service operations and i have several Apple systems mainly for supporting my Apple clients but sometimes use them for work too.
0 Votes
+ -
I am wondering...
arminw 21st Nov 2008
exactly what tweaks you, as a knowledgeable user
can do to Windows, that an equally knowledgeable
UNIX (OSX) user cannot do? It would be news to me
that UNIX is any less configurable than any version
of Windows.
0 Votes
+ -
its more about the hardware
mrjoctave@... 21st Nov 2008
then the software, Apple use a closed system policy by which i mean they screen there hardware and if it doesn't conform to Apples requirements it is not supported (its the main reason there systems are so stable).

Windows is has an open system policy which means you can pretty much install any hardware you want, when you want and do with it what you want (hence the illusion of instability and i say illusion because 90% of windows crashes are due to hardware, software or driver misconfiguration / conflicts/ incompatibility and not OS related).

In general terms it means i can get inside my computer and play around to improve performance, from combining different sets of hardware to JCL manipulations and overclocking. Attempting this kind of activity on a Mac system will void your warranty.
0 Votes
+ -
Hardware manipulations
jprescott12@... 8th Feb 2009
It's no different with a Dell, or HP computer. Overclocking and other
types of related manipulations voids the Dell or HP warranty (I know from
personal experience having inherited a Dell still under warranty that had
been overclocked, and would not be worked on by Dell because it had
been overclocked). I know of several Mac owners who have overclocked
their PPC machines (don't know any with Intel machines). You can do the
same types of manipulations with Macs, and you run the same risks.
0 Votes
+ -
Non Tech User Here ...
stillgolfing Updated - 21st Nov 2008
I get about 8 years out of a PC (they are typically still running, but software and internet overheads have usually passed them buy).
My needs are simple - will the new PC run Links 2003?. My previous machine went through 3 upgrades over that 8 years (Win95,Win98,and Win98SE. For fun,(I'm a masochist at heart)I've been testing different versions of Linux on that old 400mghz PC. I'm still optimistic, but haven't found a version that works on it yet(yeah right - Linux will run on anything!).
I'm well past my best before date, so if somebody doesn't come up with a better golf game (Tiger Woods Golf sucks) then in another 6 years when the dual core machine I have now has to be retired, and the new software won't run Links, I will probably just buy a new hearing aid.
Many of my friends and neighbours (who are all much younger than I) say the same thing. If it won't run the software I like and am familiar with I'll just give the money to the grandkids.
So maybe sooner than you think, all your dreams will come true. There won't be any non-techies left in your perfect world. Of course one might wonder at that point, how many Techies would need to be employed?
0 Votes
+ -
Technical switch to Mac
rdawson@... 5th Feb 2009
I work in the IT industry (and have for more than 14 years now) and switched to a Mac at home. I built my last PC that I have handed down to my children. And the last 5 PCs I have owned were also hand built by me.

Microsoft should have an all-in-one OS like Apple. There are no multiple versions of OS X because Apple gives it all to the end user in one nice package.

I'm not sure when Microsoft started nickle and diming its customers, but it's not just their OS they do this with - they're doing it with the XBox 360 with its various versions and price points. You sure can get an XBox360 for less than a PS3 but by the time you add on a hard drive and the MS XB360 wireless adaptor you are at the same price point of the low end PS3...without the cost of Gold live service per user per year.

And if Microsoft simplifies you won't have to give up your customizing of your computers (where did you come up with that idea anyway?) since Microsoft is not in the PC hardware market outside of keyboards and mice. You would still be free to put in the box what you want...and just think, with one Windows option how much easier it is to install and have what you need (ie, better networking in Business/Ultimate).
0 Votes
+ -
What nonsense?
Cayble Updated - 21st Nov 2008
The article above is the only nonsense I see. Good, better, best = so what? It almost sounds like there is a point there unless you think about it for...like 2 seconds.

Apple assembles their own hardware and matches it to the OS. The Apple OS is designed with the narrow ranges of hardware being used by Apple being kept in mind. Its ludicrous to think there is much of a point to comparing how Windows reacts across the broad range of hardware it can be installed on and the performance OSX has on the narrow variety of hardware its installed on, and hardware Apple knows it will be installed on.

Lets look into this a little further. If a reasonable shopper spends the same on a Windows machine as they would on an Apple they are going to have good enough hardware to run Vista just great. From that dollar for dollar comparison there is no uncertainty with Windows at all.

And further, I don't really understand this whole uncertainty issue. Is the point that someone is standing in a store saying "I am uncertain how Vista will run on this particular hardware so I'm going to buy Apple instead??" If they are saying that to themselves then they are a moron. There are plenty of great reasons to purchase an Apple computer, and I have no doubt there are many around here who will be only too happy to rhyme them off. But by the same token there are many reasons why an Apple computer may not be suitable for their purposes and a Windows machine would. If they are making their computer purchasing decisions in any way based on some insane notion that uncertainty between good, better, best is going to push them to purchase an Apple for that reason they don't have a clue.

Also, Windows is made to run across all sorts and kinds of hardware combinations. And unlike Apple computers, the hardware combinations for a Windows based machine can be mind bogglingly different. So of course there will be some variations in performance, and because you can get Vista to install and actually run on such a massively broad range of hardware the performance differences could in effect be significantly different.

Finally, the entire premise of the article is seriously messed up. It's essentially saying because of the fact you can put Windows on such different hardware that is a bad thing because you cannot be certain how well it will run, but OSX has a leg up on that because you can be pretty certain its going to run well on what ever Apple its in. Thats a backward way of thinking if I ever heard it.

It should be, if there is one area where Windows has a leg WAY up and over Apple is the fact you can install it on so much different hardware, and even cheap hardware although it will not run nearly as well if it was on higher end hardware, but Apple is really hobbled by the fact that you only have a narrow choice of hardware and thats all you will be able to ever have OSX on is Apple specific hardware. And woefully for Adrians argument thats how most of the world looks at the situation.

Increased choice almost always a better thing, not a worse thing. And in this case more choice in hardware is a better thing. Its just simply retarded to say that more choice of hardware is bad because the cheaper hardware may not perform as well as you would like. DUH. Grow a brain. Thats why it cost less.

Lets make the comparison properly, lets actually put OSX into a computer thats just some cheap hardware and lets put Vista into the same cheap hardware. Result; Vista runs poorly, Apple doesn't run at all, it only works on Apple specific hardware, now there is the truth.
0 Votes
+ -
absolutely nonsense
andyILM 21st Nov 2008
Thanks for speaking up for those of us who can still make inteligent choices.
0 Votes
+ -
Apple hasn't hobbled anything
progress76 21st Nov 2008
By taking control of the level of quality expected from the manufacturers of its OEM hardware, Apple isn't limiting choice. Apple is limiting its own embarrassment by requiring hardware manufacturers to create parts that are reliable and stable, or they don't get to play.

It's a proactive strategy-- rather than MS's "we'll deal with the problems as they come" approach, which as lately been amended to include "or create an advertising campaign to draw attention away from unsolvable problems."

Do you really think Apple is manufacturing their own hardware? The same manufacturers that made every component in your PC made every component in the Apple.
0 Votes
+ -
OSX on non-Apple hardware
jprescott12@... 8th Feb 2009
Although it voids the Apple EULA, OSX has been shown to work on PC
hardware (and, if you look at PsyStar, really cheap hardware!), and it runs
just fine once you get the EFI boot up stuff squared away. And, based on
a simple non-scientific survey, OSX seems to run better than Vista on the
same hardware. Now, there are hardware combinations that won't work
under OSX because no one has written the kexts needed to extend the
Mach kernel to match the specific hardware. However, should someone
be so motivated, developing a kext to interface with a specific piece of
hardware is pretty standard driver development, and adding a kext is a
piece of cake (just put it into the Library and reboot the system to reload
it).
0 Votes
+ -
Well, if companies can't beat MS
mdemuth 20th Nov 2008
with better products, might as well take them to court
and knee-cap them as best they can...

He is right though, Home Basic needs to go. It was a
bad idea to start with.
"He is right though, Home Basic needs to go. It was a
bad idea to start with."

Don't know if it is in the best interest of Microsoft
as there is a not so small market for Home Basic and
curiously the vast majority of licences is said to be
bought by enterprises which prefer to use Home Basic
over Business.
like just exactly who wants to be just "basic". Why not just call it "Vista", ONE product, ONE SKU, and sell the other stuff as add-ons. Why create confusion when it is unnecessary? Why brand some users as "basic"?
0 Votes
+ -
Because this edition is well basic !
timiteh 20th Nov 2008
Don't know for you but one has to have quite a limited
mind to be confused by Windows Vista editions.
Moreover if people are already confused by Windows
Vista editions you can be sure that there will be even
more confused by add-ons for sales.
then call the other versions super and extra super, or, better yet, just sell them as add-ons.

By the way, male birth control devices are sold as regular, large, and extra large. They could have sold them as extra small, small, and regular, but, unlike the marketing people at MS, the marketers at Trojan had at least a clue . . . .
0 Votes
+ -
While I agree there is a market
mdemuth 20th Nov 2008
I think MS should have sold Home Premium at Basic's price point ( or cut the difference between the two SKU's), with the ability to configure it to a 'Home Basic' standard; namely no Aero and no Media Center active.
0 Votes
+ -
Well, if companies can't beat MS
914four 20th Nov 2008
with better products...
That doesn't seem like much of a challenge. wink
0 Votes
+ -
It's the timing.
TripleII-21189418044173169409978279405827 20th Nov 2008
Back when MS bundled media player and IE into the OS, neither was mainstream. You are right, now they are commonplace and don't represent any lock in/competitive monopoly advantage.

What would be relevant today is if MS embedded Office into the OS in an effort to stifle Google, Open Office, etc. There is no logical reason why you would embed it into the OS, but it made as much sense as embedding a media player into the OS originally.

On the AV front, well, MS made that self eating watermellon. They couldn't secure their OS (pre-Vista), so the need for AV arose, creating, in my mind, a marketplace that never should have existed. Now that they are working to actually secure the OS, you have an entrenched business model in trouble. I'll side with MS on that one, and too bad for AV companies who may eventually not be needed. I guess an analogy would be forcing intel to not fix their hardware because of the huge aftermarket kludge ecosystem.

We will have to see what happens though with Windows 7. I have heard, and it's a fine line, lots of integration of live components into their OS. No real reason to embed it except to create a competitive advantage, but I have also heard it is not mandatory, you have to opt for the OS integration elements.

TripleII
0 Votes
+ -
I agree with Donnie. Microsoft should release the complete OS at a fair price. The issues with EU can be addressed in the install process. Keep the OS package the same, and simply change the default settings for the install program for EU countries. In the US, it would default to installing everything with the option to remove things. In the EU, it would default to installing no extras with option to add things if desired. The installs can be different, but it needs to be shipped as a complete copy of the OS. In fact, the install should detect and install for 64 bit hardware when present, too.

The other important thing is that Windows 7 needs to be offered at a fair price this time. Vista Ultimate was insanely-priced. They charged $400 for the OS when some PCs cost less than that? Give me a break.

At the very worst, there should be two versions sold - 32 bit and 64 bit. Each of those two versions should sell for $149 per license. They should offer a 5-user home license for $199-$249 tops. That would be the common sense release pricing which would make Windows 7 fly off shelves.

Any other pricing approach is going to make people think long and hard about whether it is worth the cost (and risk) to upgrade. There is a psychological price barrier at $200. When something drops below that price, it requires much less thought to purchase. Look at DVD players historically. Look at BluRay now. BluRay players will really start selling when you can walk into Best Buy and pick one up for $179. Windows 7 is not immune to this barrier. Neither was Vista. Apple used common sense and priced OS X at $129 and $199 for 5 user. A larger percentage of their users upgrade quickly because of it.

The release of Windows 7 next Christmas will make or break Microsoft's future. If they continue to let the greed of their marketing department override the common sense of listening to their customers, the exodus to Apple and Linux will really begin to kick into high gear. There will come a point where inertia due to word of mouth takes over. That's when the installed base numbers will shift quickly and in a big way, leaving Microsoft scratching their heads in confusion and disbelief.
0 Votes
+ -
Longhorn cost $8 billion and it failed.
Microsoft lost most of their investment in
Longhorn, but Steve Ballmer made sure
that the Vista upgraders had to pay for it.
This is why that Vista was sold as
intentionally crippled software and why
MS charged so much to upgrade.

Besides, MS has everyone trapped; it could
make them pay. Why else bother to have a
monopoly?
0 Votes
+ -
1990's called...
MyBlueRex 20th Nov 2008
they want your dead brain back in the 1990's... where
your views quite clearly are based.

Isn't it about time you actually caught up with the
rest of the world??

NO ONE is trapped. ANY ONE can run whatever OS they
want. They just HAVE TO WANT TO.
0 Votes
+ -
You have a right to an opinion.
UrbanBard 20th Nov 2008
But, please back up that opinion with facts
and logic, rather than prejudices.

Apple is growing at a rate of 30% a year
while the world wide market is essentially
flat. Half of Apple's customers were using
Wintel before. This means that these
people had a choice and they chose Apple.
These are the people who DON'T WANT
Wintel.

There are millions more of them every
year. Why? Because Microsoft has very few
advantages over Apple. Popularity and
quality are not the same thing. Apple is
out competing Wintel.

Of course, that doesn't include you,
because you know obviously nothing
about the Mac.
0 Votes
+ -
Irony
Sleeper Service 21st Nov 2008
{NT}
0 Votes
+ -
nt
0 Votes
+ -
Umm. Actually.
medezark@... 21st Nov 2008
Apple's market share is growing because their spending so much money on mis-leading ad campaigns with outdated claims, and apparently they've also purchased a lot of tech and software bloggers and hired a new bunch of forum trolls.

If apple is indeed the be-all end-all, faultless OS claimed, why a need for boot camp, parallels, and other run vista / xp / linux on your mac software?

And I won't accept MS Office as the answer. If apples programmers and software products are so great, then Apple should create their own killer office suite. Oh, wait, they can't even write all of their own operating system, they have to use BSD as the core.
0 Votes
+ -
LOL... have you heard of iWork?
progress76 21st Nov 2008
With regard to Office, Apple offers iWork.

Regardless of file format or compatibility (since Office is everywhere, like chickenpox, while iWork is where Apple is, more like a beneficent mutation on an island nation), iWork's output is of a far higher quality than Office's, and the offering of templates is extensive.

A single point to point example: PowerPoint versus Keynote.

Price? No thought required. All versions of Office are above $100. iWork is less. One version.

Closing the source on their BSD mods is the only thing that has me miffed at Apple.

Currently using:
Ubuntu Ibex on parts from the Closet
HP XP Pavilion notebook
Bottom-of-the-line MacBook, one year old.

The Mac wins on all but software availability. User experience is nearly flawless.
0 Votes
+ -
Umm, no...
rahbm 18th Feb 2009
Apple's Mac market share is growing, partly because the ads are
encouraging people to have a look (which often leads to a purchase)
and partly because of growing disenchantment with Windows.

If the Apple ads were truly misleading, with outdated claims, then they
would be taken to court and the ads would be withdrawn.

There is no NEED for BootCamp, Parallels, or VMWare Fusion - they
are simply there for people who don't want to let go of the Windows
security blanket. They are certainly NOT needed for MS Office, Open
Office, Neo Office, Star Office etc all of which have native Mac OS X
versions.

Apple already HAS a killer office suite, iWork, which is easier to use
than MS Office, can read & write MS Office formats (if you so choose),
and at far better value for money.

Mac OS X does not HAVE to use BSD as the core, but why reinvent the
wheel when BSD is available, solid & stable? Not having to re-write
from the ground up means that more resources could be put into
making the whole OS more user-friendly and functional.

Your tone strongly implies that, like many in these parts, you don't like
facts to get in the way of a vitriolic rant. That would seem to put you
in the same camp as all the other forum trolls and shills.
0 Votes
+ -
MS is learning
Ken_z 20th Nov 2008
that they don't have everyone trapped.

Since the first Apple Stores opened they
have said that 50% of Mac sales in the
stores are to people new to the platform.
Can we say "ex Windows users"?

Linux is also gaining for those that want
to use it.

We're at a point where people are far more
open to "other" OS platforms and I believe
that MS needs to address the situation
with better offerings, simplicity in their
offerings and more aggressive efforts at
joining MS/OEM customer support.
0 Votes
+ -
You're needed back at your bridge...
Wolfie2K3 21st Nov 2008
1.) Longhorn (Vista) hasn't failed. Some parts of it didn't quite work and those parts were removed.

2.) Vista wasn't ever sold as intentionally crippled software.

3.) As a Windows user, I don't feel the slightest bit trapped. IF I wanted to, I could blow out every computer on my network and install some half-arsed version of Linux. But that would not serve my needs. I make my living using Windows based systems.

So do us a favor and save your typical ABM FUD for another forum...
0 Votes
+ -
I'm with You
dtdalke 21st Nov 2008
I am Sys Admin for 150 users and have almost 100% uptime. We had UNIX in the beginning and migrated to MS which is manageable and supportable. I have researched and tested Linux and Mac-OS and neither are even close to a viable solution for a corporate market. I would have to triple my staff to manage and configure Linux (shareware version of UNIX that we upgraded from).

As for Vista I still haven't seen the "Disaster". I have been running it at work and at home (on a relatively low end laptop) since RC1 and have had virtually no problems. I think the MAC vs. PC commercials put out by Apple are far more effective than they ever dreamed (bordering on mass brainwashing). I haved surveyed approx. 50 people at my work that are running Vista at home and at work and no one seems to know what is "Supposedly" wrong with it.
0 Votes
+ -
It's 100% pure unadulterated Bull FUD..
Wolfie2K3 21st Nov 2008
As for Vista I still haven't seen the "Disaster". I have been running it at work and at home (on a relatively low end laptop) since RC1 and have had virtually no problems. I think the MAC vs. PC commercials put out by Apple are far more effective than they ever dreamed (bordering on mass brainwashing). I haved surveyed approx. 50 people at my work that are running Vista at home and at work and no one seems to know what is "Supposedly" wrong with it.

I've been with Vista since Beta 2. While there were a number of minor issues - graphics glitches, programs not working quite the way they were expected - it WAS a beta.

The only "disaster" I've ever seen with Vista - was when some numbskull didn't follow the instructions on the beta - i.e. they installed Vista on their ONLY computer or primary computer and didn't back up their data. They tried an in place upgrade and the installation didn't work. Mind you, this is after they were warned in BIG RED LETTERS on the download page that they should NOT be doing that.

The Mac Vs PC ads are pure FUD. When the ads claim that the most fun you can have with a Windows box is running a spreadsheet - clearly ignoring the multi BILLION dollar PC Gaming industry, you KNOW something's wrong. Amusing? Hardly. Though I think you're onto something with the brainwashing thing...
0 Votes
+ -
Marketing a turd...
arminw 21st Nov 2008
is not that easy. Most copies of VISTA or any other
MS OS did not come from upgrades, but from people
buying a new computer. In know of people whose
computer got infected by malware and became so
slow that it was unusable. They just dumped the old
decrepit beast an bought a new one.
0 Votes
+ -
Exactly! ......
stillgolfing 21st Nov 2008
... and I know of people who just ditched their cars when the ashtrays were full! Next time why not think up an urban myth that at least sounds half way credible.
0 Votes
+ -
if you can't understand diversity in software and hardware, you better stay with pen and paper.
0 Votes
+ -
intelectually chalanged people
lumpy_blumpkin 20th Nov 2008
Wow, were those misspellings an attempt at irony?
0 Votes
+ -
in fact...
TristanGrimaux 21st Nov 2008
there is a lost comma: rich, intellectually challenged people.
0 Votes
+ -
I think you missed Linux Geeks point.
stillgolfing 21st Nov 2008
You don't need extra commas or extra l's if you are using Linux!
willing to pay extra for something that just works and looks great. People that use Vista are the intellectually challenged that do not want to learn anything new and are satisfied with butt UUUGGGLLLY computers - no matter how good the alternatives are.

Well, Dell and others ARE putting more attention on style these days . . . .
0 Votes
+ -
you mean polar bear hugging liberals. wink
comment about polar bears. But, yes, intelligent people DO realize the importance of the planet on which we live - though they will probably NOT try to hug a polar bear, no matter how cute they are.
0 Votes
+ -
Uh...and...
GuyAlanDye 21st Nov 2008
...calling Windows users "intellectually challenged" is not an insult? Wow.

Donnie...you are truly one of the barriers to a level-headed debate in these forums.

For anyone who has understanding: An OS is not a religion. It's a tool. Like a hammer. Some have claws. Some do not. Some perform better when performing certain tasks. Others don't.

And nothing spewed by a fanboy with a tendency to troll and way too much time on their hands can change this fact.
0 Votes
+ -
Rules for trolls
rahbm 19th Feb 2009
#1 - Never let the facts get in the way. This applies equally to ALL trolls
and shills, whether NBM, ABM, pro-Mac or pro-Linux.

#2 - Always press home any chance to make MS look bad. The advantage
here for ABM trolls is that MS gives them so much rich material!

Join the conversation!

Formatting +
BB Codes - Note: HTML is not supported in forums
  • [b] Bold [/b]
  • [i] Italic [/i]
  • [u] Underline [/u]
  • [s] Strikethrough [/s]
  • [q] "Quote" [/q]
  • [ol][*] 1. Ordered List [/ol]
  • [ul][*] · Unordered List [/ul]
  • [pre] Preformat [/pre]
  • [quote] "Blockquote" [/quote]
ie8 fix
Click Here
ie8 fix

The best of ZDNet, delivered

ZDNet Newsletters

Get the best of ZDNet delivered straight to your inbox

Facebook Activity

White Papers, Webcasts, & Resources
ie8 fix
ie8 fix