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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes
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Is Android a stolen product?

By | October 22, 2011, 4:01am PDT

Summary: Jobs: “I’m willing to go thermonuclear war on this.”

Excerpts of the upcoming Steve Jobs biography by Walter Isaacson are doing the rounds, and it’s all fascinating stuff. But there’s one but that I keep coming back to, and that is what Steve Jobs thought of Google’s Android mobile operating system.

It’s clear that Jobs really didn’t like Android:

“I will spend my last dying breath if I need to, and I will spend every penny of Apple’s $40 billion in the bank [at the time ... this has grown massively since], to right this wrong. I’m going to destroy Android, because it’s a stolen product. I’m willing to go thermonuclear war on this.”

In a meeting in March of 2010 with Eric Schmidt, then Google’s chief executive, at a cafe in Palo Alto, California, Jobs made it clear he wasn’t interested in settling lawsuits:

“I don’t want your money. If you offer me $5 billion, I won’t want it. I’ve got plenty of money. I want you to stop using our ideas in Android, that’s all I want.”

And it’s this mindset that has led to the seemingly endless patent infringement lawsuits between Apple and Android device makers. As I’ve pointed out before, Apple doesn’t need the hassle of scrabbling for nickels and dimes in patent loot (like Microsoft is doing) because the company already has more cash than it knows what to do with. Apple’s not litigating for money, it’s doing so to keep the iPhone unique.

The areas of conflict between Apple and Android are well known and include features such as numbers and addresses being turned into clickable links, icons on a touch screen and the use of the pinching gesture for resizing.

But is it ’stealing’?

[UPDATE: Some readers have asked for my opinion here (so they can flame me ... LOL!). Honestly, I don't know. The iPhone was certainly revolutionary in its time in that it was a complete touchscreen device, and since then hundreds of clones have sprung up. But patents are tough to interpret and it is hard to distinguish between inspiration and rip-off. Some aspects of Android, based on my reading of patents, certainly do seem to have stolen from the iPhone. But patents are notoriously complex and ultimately these issues have to be decided by a court.]

Poll

Is Android a stolen product?

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Android, Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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RE:Android is a stolen product!!!
littlet1968 15th May
I always wonder why everyone believes that Apple invited the Apple. Or in other terms Apple did not invented the mobile phone, neither the touch screen on a mobile phone, neither does they are the first to have round corners on a brick phone.
View in thread
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Your argument please
johnfenjackson@... 22nd Oct
1. I'm tired of ZDNET bloggers putting up flamebait to polarise readers in useless argument.
AKH: please put up YOUR case ... we prefer to flame you wink

2. The patent situation is in a terrible mess and currently holds back progress by many corporations (fearing lawsuits).

3. There is a presumption by global corporates that once they have established a major platform it should be up to them how to milk it. I think the reverse: once a major platform has been established ... in the case of PC on top of CPU's, disks, memory, UNIX OS principles not originally developed by the platform owner ... then it is incumbent on said platform owner to be a good citizen. M$ was OK to start then became evil; Apple is the worst example I can bring to mind of an arrogant, manipulative, greedy citizen (I won't have anything to do with them unless it suits me).
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
hzmonteiro Updated - 22nd Oct
@johnfenjackson@...

Just to correct, I do agree with the 3rd point as well, except the last sentence, since I own an iPad... 8-)

Great point (s)!
I have to disagree with the third one...
My phone is a Android HTC Desire HD and I love it!
I also love my iPad and so far no Android ones could beat it.
The idea that Android would be a stolen product is just ridiculous and demonstrates one's inability to understand fundamentals of business and technology.
If the arguments are to be supported, then iOS is a stolen product, not android, which is more closely lated to Unix than Apple's iOS.
It seems Jobs liked to repackage someone else's inventions and claim ownership of it.
I rather think not, but it seems people just want to idolatrate successful business mans like gods, no matter how they've got to that.
Let's be reasonable, Jobs did a great work in packaging the iOS in the form of iPhones, iPods and iPads, but he did not invented the concept!
I remember some tablets being used in old Star Treks movies, well before Apple, Jobs and the whole computer industry were considering it.
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And if someone came up with a real warp engine..
doctorSpoc 22nd Oct
@hzmonteiro that allowed faster than light flight.. they should not get a patent for that of course because some other guy made a cheap movie prop with blinky lights an jelly beans for knobs many years earlier that pretended to do the same thing.. tell me no one could be that stupid..
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
daengbo Updated - 22nd Oct
@doctorSpoc This is the major difference between a functional patent and design patents, business patents, or software patents. The first on requires a working implementation. The others are actually _less difficult_ than making a movie prop.

A specific kind of warp engine? Patentable. FTL drives or warp drives in general? Shouldn't be patentable. A patent on delivering goods from one planet to another using FTL travel? Shouldn't be patentable. A "design patent" for putting the engine in the rear of a spaceship? You've got to be kidding.
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Agreed, concepts cannot be patented;
vulpine@... 22nd Oct
@hzmonteiro: ... however, methods can--and Apple clearly attempted to patent almost every method they used in the designing and making of the hardware and software in their iOS devices.

I also have to argue with your statement, "... iOS is a stolen product, not android, which is more closely lated to Unix than Apple's iOS." Android is based on Linux not Unix whereas OS X is a certified UNIX and iOS is a derivative of OS X.

Did Steve Jobs invent the concept? Obviously not. But he did invent the methods which made the iPhone work as smoothly as it does and were were essentially copied by Android.
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
spark555 22nd Oct
@vulpine By all means - explain what "methods" you feel Apple invented which make the iPhone "work smoothly" which were "stolen" by anyone else.

Do you even known what's underneath iOS and Android? Have you ever seen a line of Java, or Objective C?

I'm honestly curious - what do you think you're talking about?
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There is a point where common sense should come into play
Mister Spock 23rd Oct
@doctorSpoc

A concept created for a movie, say a small touch screen tablet (as was seen in many an eposode of Star Trek through out the franchises) should not be patentable by one company if actually created to the point that others can not produce a tablet.

How that company's tablet works can and should be patentable, but should not be able to clain the idea as their own it was taken from someone else's design and idea, that of the writer/prop designer's scetches and mock-ups.

plain
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
anto31 23rd Oct
@hzmonteiro Totally agree.
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
CowLauncher 22nd Oct
@johnfenjackson@...on your point number 3. It all comes down to if YOU feel you are getting your moneys worth when you buy a product or service. For instance take a record album you really love and enjoy listening to over and over again. Is you loving and owning this thing incumbent on there not being any greed, arrogance or manipulation in the over all creation, production and delivery of that piece of music? Probably not. It is not a black and white world.
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
Linux Guru Advocate 22nd Oct
@johnfenjackson@...
Job$ was very evile second only to Gate$.
His distorted reality made him fight the people's urge for FOSS and innovation.
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Unfair to Gates ... and illustrating my point
johnfenjackson@... 22nd Oct
Whilst I feel Gates succumbed to corporate greed while at M$ ... he must now surely be ranked in the top 10 philanthropists.

That's my point: once a company or person has 'made it big' then it is time to start being a good citizen. It would also be unfair to Jobs I think to say he might not have done the same eventually ... for the spectre of death haunted his final years.

On a philosophical note I guess everyone (in the West) needs to recognise that we are lucky and work to minimise our greed and consumption. Our current ills are the direct consequence of a failure to act on that thought.
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
bannedagain 22nd Oct
@Linux Guru Advocate

So what are Chrome browser and the Android browser based on?

According to their license agreements Apple's open source WebKit plays a large part.
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
nuzayaz 22nd Oct
@bannedagain

And WebKit is based on KHTML...

This actually shows why Jobs's claim of Android being a stolen product is arrogant BS. No one's product is a thoroughly original idea. The iPhone borrows a lot of concepts from LG's Chocolate (which came a year before the iPhone), now it copied Android's notification UI, BlackBerry's messenger ideas.
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
d.marcu 23rd Oct
@bannedagain, LOL, webkit is based om kde's khtml. Apple were forced to release the source code.
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But One Looming Question....
rhonin Updated - 22nd Oct
@johnfenjackson@...
If it was stolen, then why did Apple not go after Goole directly instead of the OEMs?
What SJ said and Apple did are two different items.
Pick on the little guys.
Cowards way out.
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
Pete "athynz" Athens 22nd Oct
@rhonin You call HTC and Samsung the "little guys"? Really?
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... Has a Very Obvious Answer
vulpine@... 22nd Oct
@rhonin : Google did not put a GUI on top of their Android base, giving the OEMs a way to make Android individual to the separate OEMs. It was the OEMs that made Android look so much like iOS. So, Apple went after the OEMs instead.
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
Rama.NET Updated - 22nd Oct
@johnfenjackson@...
Did really Steve Jobs said that? I highly doubt it because the author is releasing the Bio after Steve's death, that makes it not fair to the 100% and not true to the 100% because Steve is not there to say yes or no to it. I sincerely think media and publisher+author are trying to cash hugely on Steve Jobs death and thats why we are seeing these floating around now. I know SJ was arrogant, but releasing the book after the death of SJ makes it genuine NOT.
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
dabbsil 22nd Oct
@johnfenjackson@... I've dealt with MS since their early days. They were ALWAYS evil. Just at the start, they didn't have quite the monopoly power behind them so they just LOOKED less evil.
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Pot calling the kettle black....
linux for me Updated - 22nd Oct
@johnfenjackson@...

And Apple didn't steal the ideas for the GUI and mouse from Xerox in 1973. Right......
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
Pete "athynz" Athens 24th Oct
@linux for me They did not. They licensed the tech from Xerox in exchange for stock options. Seriously this is computing history 101 here...
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Android is a stolen product!!!
Bay Area CA Male 23rd Oct
@johnfenjackson@...

I will summarize the whole thing:
0. A man see a competitor's bicycle.
1. The man starts building a bicycle.
2. The man peeks into a competitors garage.
3. The man sees a motorcycle.
4. The man changes his mind.
5. The man copies the stolen motorcycle design
6. The mand builds a motorcycle.
7. The man is a low life dousch bag.

8. End of Story!!!!
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RE:Android is a stolen product!!!
littlet1968 15th May
I always wonder why everyone believes that Apple invited the Apple. Or in other terms Apple did not invented the mobile phone, neither the touch screen on a mobile phone, neither does they are the first to have round corners on a brick phone.
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
Cylon Centurion 22nd Oct
When Android was first released, it was pretty clear it was an also-ran impersonator. And, well, seeing how Mr. Creeper Schmidt was on Apple's board...
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And, most importantly, Android's genuie UI was nothing like it is today ...
DeRSSS 22nd Oct
@Cylon Centurion: ... before Jobs presented iPhone in 2007.

So of course Android is "stolen product" in terms of core concept UI (concrete features aside).
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
Solid Water 22nd Oct
@DeRSSS

Not sure at all about UI concept...

Pulled out my old Sony Clie NX60/U that I bought in 2002 and (or my ***)! It has raws of icons and a status bar!!!

On a serious note - back then, showing the device to my wife I was saying: if somebody adds phone capability to it then it would be great.

Now, does it make me equal to Jobs? No. Does it mean that Jobs stole my idea? No.
All it means (to me, at least) that the idea was already in the air.

Your train of thoughts may be different.
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Nothing to do with row of icons; user interface core concepts is how users
DeRSSS 22nd Oct
@Solid Water: ... operate the OS and device. Just look at older Android videos on you tubes and see how it was a BlackBerry OS copycat, nothing to do with what it became later.
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
tk_77 22nd Oct
@DeRSSS

Don't forget about the development language, also stolen wink (at least according to Oracle)
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
Ben_E 22nd Oct
There's a great image on the net (google it) that shows Android pre- and post- iPhone. Other than the widget screen and the two additional hardware buttons it is basically an iOS clone. At least MS did something different with Windows Phone.
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
daengbo 22nd Oct
@Ben_E There are also great images showing _two_ prototypes of Android -- one BB style and one touch screen.

It's also known that engineers were using prototype G1's before the iPhone launch. The G1 was a slider, not a touch-only phone, and had those hardware buttons and widgets you mentioned. So basically, it wasn't anything like the iPhone. In fact, iOS _still_ doesn't have widgets (AFAIK).

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/jobs-today-apple-is-going-to-reinvent-the-phone/4249
http://www.gsmarena.com/t_mobile_g1-2533.php
These phones don't appear anything like each other, much less to be clones.

I don't think anything is as cut and dried as you want to think it is.
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
rlorenz 22nd Oct
@Ben_E I'm not sure I've seen the photo you're referring to, but there is another funny photo circulating showing the evolution of iOS (admittedly, from droid-life):

http://www.droid-life.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/3-years-ios-android.png

I don't think it's fair to say Android copied Apple. There is something different between having all of your applications smattered on your home screen and having a drawer with homescreen widgets and a select few application shortcuts. In terms of the grid layout, isn't it Apple that learned (to their benefit) that a UI is not patentable?
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Nah
guihombre 22nd Oct
Jobs was upset with Schmidt, he thought they were partners, not businesses.

Android is a completely different design, uses a different language, and internally is different.

Multi-touch wasn't invented by Jobs, and those gestures were copied from others work. Being the first to commercial sell a copy doesn't give you special rights. So features Apple thinks are it's, are not.

What Apple need to do now is make something new, Siri is a good example of that, but Google are hammering away at them, and they need to stop whining and get on competing.

Get over it, you're in a competition, and the current game is negative and will backfire.
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Take another look....
rhonin Updated - 22nd Oct
@guihombre
Is it partners or SJ "do it my way" ?
The going bet was how long would Eric remain? A when, not if.
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
mantrik00 22nd Oct
Even Apple's product's have stolen ideas from all other products that came before it, but none have been as mean and aggressive as Apple in getting into such acrimonious law suits. Indeed, all the progress that the humanity has made since the days of the cave man is because of "stolen" ideas and improvements on them.
By the way, such obvious human interactions as a two fingered operation on phone could have been given a patent only in America which probably has the most indiscreet patent regime in the world. Even that appears to be invalid because there exits prior art for these patents.
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
mizerock 22nd Oct
@mantrik00 That's gotta be the main reason I'm so hesitant to give them any money. Sure, every business has be aggressive to thrive, but it's impossible for me to be able to get excited about joining up with a bully.
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Android
denchiosa 22nd Oct
I had an Iphone, now I own an Android, and for me is better, flash suport, easy connectable to PC, best personalisation and a lot of mode-s. So,sorry SJ , i am sure that you were afraid of Android succes that's why you wanted to destroy it.
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
leguirerj 22nd Oct
Actually, I think Apple got the concept of the iphone from Nokia n-series of internet tablets n770 and n800. Nokia eventually combined the concept of phone and internet table in the n900, but as a mobile device using icons, widgets apps and an appstore, they had it forst.
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
tk_77 22nd Oct
@leguirerj

The iPad idea actually came before the iPhone. And before that, there was the Apple Newton MessagePad 100 in 1993. Did Nokia come up with the n-series back before 1993?
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
browser. 22nd Oct
To all the posters who think iOS is a stolen product - you fail to realize that if there was a worthy technology, then Apple has "licensed" it and included it in the OS. Many lawsuits being thrown around [ex: Nokia, Samsung suing Apple] was because those companies were greedy and wanted more money from Apple instead of FRAND terms [ex: Samsung lawsuit thrown out of window]. On the other hand, Google failed to license or talk to Apple before stealing the ideas. Google thinks they can steal anyone's idea, give it away for free [of course nothing in the world is free - lookout for ads] and think they can gain support from people because they give it away for free. Oracle and Apple would prevail in most of the lawsuits. One difference is Oracle would make boatloads of money from the license and Apple would force Android and its manufacturers to create new ideas.
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If so then...
rhonin 22nd Oct
@browser.
Why is Apple suing the OEMs instead of Google?
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
Pete "athynz" Athens 22nd Oct
@rhonin Because the OEM's used Apple hardware patents.
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
illwill112 22nd Oct
@rhonin ARE you that clueless?
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
Peter Perry 22nd Oct
@rhonin don't sweat them, they have no ability to reason what you're really saying and they have no answer for your question so they will insult you.

Reality, if Apple had a case against Android they would go after Google and not Samsung, HTC or the like.
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
browser. 23rd Oct
@rhonin They would go against Google when they complete the MOTO acquisition... For now, Google is not the one who is selling Android... Its Samsung, Moto, HTC, etc...
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If Android is stolen, then so is OSX (from Darwin BSD)
Dietrich T. Schmitz * Your Linux Advocate 22nd Oct
And so are many fundamental concepts which derived from Xerox SmallTalk used by today's operating systems.

BSD licensing is/was structured to allow Darwin BSD to be exploited and forked to proprietary code as was done with OSX.

Perfectly legal.

The GNU Public License prohibits such from occurring as any derivative work must be put back into the community source code base.

Android runs on the Linux kernel and is licensed using the Apache License

h-t-t-p-s://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_%28operating_system%29

The ongoing litigation in Orace vs Google regarding Java copyright/patent infringement continues.

The jit compiler, Dalvik, part of Android, runs Java code which is at the center of Oracle's dispute.

So, far it's looking like Oracle's patent claims have been whittled down to just a few and their claim of copyright remains.

Google have filed a motion for summary judgment on Oracle's patent claims. Get the facts here:

h-t-t-p://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20111021171659713
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ping
Dietrich T. Schmitz * Your Linux Advocate 22nd Oct
@Dietrich T. Schmitz * Your Linux Advocate
x
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
bannedagain 22nd Oct
Well going by court cases Android has been shown to infringe Apple patents in several jurisdictions, with Android products being banned.

Oracle is the one to watch, Google can't go on stealing other's work (books anyone?) attaching their advertising spyware and giving it away for "free".
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
Peter Perry 22nd Oct
@bannedagain No it has not, 3rd party mods and Phine design are the only areas Apple has won anything!
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RE: Is Android a stolen product?
bannedagain 22nd Oct
@Peter Perry

The behaviour of Android's stock gallery application was found to be infringing in the Netherlands.

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