Hardware 2.0

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Is Apple 'borrowing' features from rejected apps? No.

By Adrian Kingsley-Hughes | June 10, 2011, 5:30am PDT

Summary: Interesting story bought to us by The Register which asks whether Apple is ‘borrowing’ features from rejected apps and integrating them into iOS.

Interesting story bought to us by The Register which asks whether Apple is ’borrowing’ features from rejected apps and integrating them into iOS.

Consider the case of UK-based developer Greg Hughes. Last year, his app for wirelessly syncing iPhones with iTunes libraries was unceremoniously rejected from the official App Store. The software developer took the denial in stride, submitting Wi-Fi Sync to the Cydia store for jailbroken iPhones, where the app is a top seller.

Fast forward to Monday, when Apple unveiled a set of new features for the upcoming iOS 5, including the same wireless-syncing functionality. Cupertino wasn’t even subtle about the appropriation, using the precise name and a near-identical logo to market the technology.

For comparison, here are the logos of the two apps:

Wi-Fi Sync was rejected from the Apple because of ‘unspecified security concerns and that it did things not specified in the official iPhone software developers’ kit’ but Hughes went on to make it available to jailbroken iPhones via Cydia (for $9.99). And it’s been very successful, selling more than 50,000 in the last 13 months.

Apparently Apple was impressed by the app, so much so that an Apple rep called Hughes prior to the official rejection to say that the app was ‘admirable.’ Seems it was so admirable that Apple decided to ‘borrow’ it.

It’s not the only example where developers feel that their ideas have been ‘borrowed’ by Apple.

My take … well, I’m all for the little guy, and it’s important to support the indie devs out there, but I’m at a loss here as to what was copied exactly. WiFi Sync isn’t a new idea, yeah the logos kinda looks similar but then the middle bit looks likes Apple’s own WiFi logo and the arrows are from iSync. Oh, and on top of that, when the dev submitted the app to Apple for approval, Apple doesn’t get any source code, so there’s no way code could have been ‘lifted.’ Bottom line, unless the dev had a patent, there’s just no case.

Less hyperventilation, more critical thinking people!

Kick off your day with ZDNet's daily e-mail newsletter. It's the freshest tech news and opinion, served hot. Get it.

More from “Hardware 2.0”

ZionEyez 'spy glasses'

Friday Fun: Five ways to end your career as a PC tech

Topics

Apple Inc., Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Full Bio
Disclosure
Contact

Vendor HotSpot

The 360° Conversation around Cloud Computing

TECH VISUALIZER brings the social conversation to life... powered by Brocade

Learn More »

Related Discussions on TechRepublic

Did you know you can take part in these discussions with your ZDNet membership?

Ask a Question Start a Discussion

Comments

Add Your Opinion

Join the conversation!

Follow via:: RSS; Email Alert

Just In

RE: Is Apple 'borrowing' features from rejected apps? No.

chethammer 13th Jun

I'm sure if you compare the code of the two that they will be almost identical. Apple did it because they could and they crap all over their developers. Look at the in app charges they wanted to institute.

View in thread

Please Select
Please Select

0 Votes

+ -

RE: Is Apple 'borrowing' features from rejected apps? No.

wendellgee@... 10th Jun

My take from your article...

Its ok to steal ideas from people who don't have patents.

No wonder why our patent law is such a mess.

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

But this time there was no idea; wireless syncing is ancient thing, and ...

DeRSSS Updated - 10th Jun

@wendellgee@... Apple has worked on this probably much longer than just from last year. Contrary to how other companies operate, Apple never announces its ideas in the time when they just came up with; it accumulates everything together until the very late -- close enough to release time.

So it is very much possible that not only this feature, but also many others which are considered "borrowed" are not actually borrowed at all. Image that Apple has like 10 thousand engineers, programmers, developers as its staff -- and none of them ever show/announce any of ideas they have until they are ready to ship or at least beta-ready (if it is software) as package among other ideas are ready.

The more so if these idea might rely on something as grandiose as Apple's third data centre. Ideas and even software might be ready for quite time, but they might work well only when the hardware back-end is done.

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

Yes. It is also possible that ....

Economister 10th Jun

@DeRSSS

unvisited parts of the moon is made of cheese. Only a tiny fraction of one percent has been verified to NOT be made of cheese.

0 Votes

+ -

RE: Is Apple 'borrowing' features from rejected apps? No.

Peter Perry 10th Jun

@DeRSSS Yeah right, they make you submit the code and then they steal it from you... What took balls was using an almost identical Icon!!! I hope this guy goes after them for all he can get!

0 Votes

+ -

Flawed analogy; I specifically named the reason why these 'borrowings' do

DeRSSS 10th Jun

@Economister: ... not have to be borrowings at all.

Yes, it is possible that these are indeed borrowings. It is also possible that unvisited parts of the moon is made of cheese. Only a tiny fraction of one percent has been verified to NOT be made of cheese.

0 Votes

+ -

Please do not dream; there is no information that Apple's code has anything

DeRSSS 10th Jun

@Peter Perry: ... to do with the code that was submitted last year. Also, that submission was declined for proper reason.

And, that app's icon is itself is made of Apple's own Wi-Fi and Apple's own iSync icons, so it is insane to claim that Apple "borrowed" that icon.

0 Votes

+ -

Do you...

Economister 10th Jun

@DeRSSS

have a compulsion to defend Apple?

There is no definitive proof, but this stinks to high heaven. End of story.

0 Votes

+ -

RE: Is Apple 'borrowing' features from rejected apps? No.

timspublic1@... 10th Jun

@DeRSSS But the fact remains, they courted the app dev, then stole the idea. If they had never used him like they did, nobody would be on his side. But to call him in and then reject the app...only to add the function to iOS. Give me a break if you really believe WE don't believe Apple stole the idea. The LEAST they could have done is used a different looking icon. The VERY least.

But of course Apple is such a great company who never does things like this.

0 Votes

+ -

Did you read what was written? Apple could not 'steal' 'idea' from that ...

DeRSSS 11th Jun

@timspublic1: ... developer since that idea is ancient (and common sense thing) and its inception had nothing to do with that developer.

So no reason to suggest any borrowing here at all.

0 Votes

+ -

RE: Is Apple 'borrowing' features from rejected apps? No.

Harvey Lubin Updated - 10th Jun

@wendellgee@...

It's ironic that Microsoft supporters are making such a big deal out of this small app, when at the same time Microsoft has just lost a U.S. high court appeal of $300 Million award to I4i for stealing their patented IP.

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

The difference is

Doctor Demento 12th Jun

@Harvey Lubin

The difference is that people who like and use MS products don't have the compulsive need to defend, defend, defend everything MS says and does the way that Apple people will defend Apple. MS people will simply say 'yeah, that was bad, they shouldn't have done that' and then move on, but Apple people will fight until hell freezes over to avoid having to admit that Apple MIGHT HAVE made one or two minor mistakes....they will always say 'I'm not saying Apple is perfect' but then they will turn around and fight to the death to avoid admitting any error or mistake on Apple's part, so apparently their position is that, even though Apple isn't perfect, their products have no known flaws and their buisness practices have absolutely no ethical problems today or ever....

It's an entirely different mentality...

0 Votes

+ -

RE: Is Apple 'borrowing' features from rejected apps? No.

reklissrick 10th Jun

Sorry, but I just can't even belive that you AKH, would write this. C'mon man, we know that you have certain biases, but please...
Why not say that "borrowing" is the sincerest form of flattery? Just cuz Apple doesn't?

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

RE: Is Apple 'borrowing' features from rejected apps? No.

hoaxoner 10th Jun

When samsung does the same thing, stop the presses, but when apple does it, it is prior art. Please tell me how this makes sense.

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

RE: Is Apple 'borrowing' features from rejected apps? No.

Nate_K 10th Jun

Nice to see this come to light after I mentioned it in a post 6 days ago. This guy was the first to develop and release this app and look what happened. I just can't trust a company that steals from it's customers.

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

But.....

Economister 10th Jun

if anybody copies look, feel or functionality from Apple, then they are "ripping off" Apple's intellectual property.

I am absolutely certain that part of Apple's review process is to look for ideas. When they find one they want to develop and sell themselves, they reject the application and develop their own. Which small developer will sue Apple? None. It is typical greedy, unethical, corporate conduct, but that is nothing new.

I think you are way out to lunch on this one.

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

Epic fail much?

sagec 10th Jun

The supreme court just ruled first to invent trumps first to patent, as it's always been.

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

RE: Is Apple 'borrowing' features from rejected apps? No.

Peter Perry 10th Jun

@jacec Good!

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

RE: Is Apple 'borrowing' features from rejected apps? No.

msalzberg 10th Jun

@jacec

I haven't heard of this. Can you please post a link?

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

Supreme Court Upholds â??First-to-Inventâ?? Standard in U.S. Patent Law

sagec 10th Jun

@msalzberg

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Supreme-Court-Upholds-bw-222749820.html?x=0

0 Votes

+ -

RE: Is Apple 'borrowing' features from rejected apps? No.

awatcher 10th Jun

It is also possible that iOS 5 was already in development at Apple when Hughes app was rejected. The cloak of secrecy that covers development projects in Cupertino shields the truth of the matter ... to automatically presume guilt or innocence of stealing independent developers ideas when all the facts are unavailable is disingenuous.

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

RE: Is Apple 'borrowing' features from rejected apps? No.

timspublic1@... 10th Jun

@awatcher But something that Android, MS and all the others are automatically guilty of.

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

Borrowed?

bsvee 10th Jun

Really? Are we implying that Apple hadn't thought about wireless syncing until an app developer came up with the idea? This company really lacks vision.

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

I'd like to hear the Apple apologist's take on this...

SonofaSailor 10th Jun

You know, the ones who say "30% cut from the Devs is a necessary evil", "Apple takes 30% to support the Devs", and the rest of their garbage...

Ok, so where is the support or protection for Greg Hughes? Not only did crApple pull his app, completely eliminating his chance to make any $, but Apple stole his idea, his functionality, even his logo for God's sake.

@DEUSXMACHINA... I seem to remember you saying yesterday something about a monopolistic environment? anti-competitive? blah, blah, blah?

Gentlement (loose term), start your apology engines

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

Here you go...

TheWerewolf 10th Jun

@SonofaSailor Let me sum it up then:

1. It's not copying - it's a coincidence. (Note - this apology ONLY works for Apple - no one else.)
2. It's not wrong because it's not illegal - since there's no patent or trademark on the original app.
3. It's an obvious product - the guy is taking credit for something EVERYONE thought up.
4. He's made his money off it - why is he upset?
5. Ok.. maybe Apple did lift the idea - but it makes it better for everyone that they did - so it's good (and free).
6. Apple really thought of it first, they just hadn't released it yet.

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

RE: Is Apple 'borrowing' features from rejected apps? No.

Pete "athynz" Athens 10th Jun

@SonofaSailor I see you drank some extra hateraide today... and it must have been spiked because your arguments make no sense. Let me explain this to you so hopefully you can understand what is going on a bit better:

Firstly none of us knows if Apple has had this in the works or not prior to Greg Hughes submitting the app - they very well could have considering that Android had this capability for a while. And Apple could have rejected his app for the exact reasons stated - now I'm not sure I believe that since I do not take anything Apple says as the gospel truth but I'm not saying that it is outside the realm of possibility. Secondly - and tying into my first point - Android did have the capability for a while so all Mr Hughes did (I say all but his work is pretty cool IMHO) was create an iOS compatible app to wirelessly sync an iTunes library - and essentially (by YOUR logic) stealing the idea from Androi with the exception that Mr Hughes's app did not allow for wireless iOS updates where the iOS 5 version does.

And the 30% cut you mention - how would that apply to an app that WAS NOT EVEN IN THE APP STORE? That point on your part was an epic fail.

As for him not being able to make money off of his app anymore now that Apple is releasing iOS 5 with the same capability that is pure bullsh1t. First of all NONE of his sales were made via the Apple App Store but via the Cydia store which is available via jailbreaking. So Apple did NOT "pull" his app. Also none of the iPhone 3G models will be able to run iOS 5 (hell it can't run iOS 4.3), and I'm fairly sure given Apple's track record with disabling certain features on older phones (i.e. multitasking on the 3G with iOS 4) that it is possible that wireless sync will not be enabled for the 3GS models.

The icon thing: Yeah, that IS a blatant rip off by Apple. No question at all in my mind about that. Unfortunately there isn't much Mr Hughes can do about it unless he was able to patent that particular icon image.

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

RE: Is Apple 'borrowing' features from rejected apps? No.

Nate_K 10th Jun

@athynz
Actually your wrong, he submitted his app to the store, after the review process was complete his app was rejected from the app store which caused him to move to the cydia store after the DOJ ruled jailbreaking your phone was not illegal. However you look at it, apple stole his idea. He was the first to present a working version. Mind you a year before IOS5.

0 Votes

+ -

RE: Is Apple 'borrowing' features from rejected apps? No.

SonofaSailor 10th Jun

@athynz

Once again Athynz, your religious ferver and apologist attitude towards all things Apple never ceases to impress.

0 Votes

+ -

RE: Is Apple 'borrowing' features from rejected apps? No.

Pete "athynz" Athens 10th Jun

@Nate_K How am I wrong? I never said he did not submit his app to Apple nor did I say it was not rejected. While I'm a bit fuzzy on the actual timing of the release of the app to Cydia vs the DOJ ruling I cannot say for sure if Apple took the idea from his app or from Android or Blackberry... I do not think Apple would have ripped off the app as it would be entirely too obvious... they definitely borrowed/ stole the idea from somewhere. Reread what I wrote above.

@SonofaSailor And I see that you have yet to refute ANY point I made... so I'm going to conclude that by the lack of any logical and though out response from you (See Nate_K's response to me for an example of one that IS much more logical and thought out than your own) and your "insults" that I refuted your ill thought out points.

Interesting that you call me an apologist and accuse me of having religious ferver... Dude you could not be less wrong about me. You apparently did not even bother to read my post as if I WAS some sort of apologist or Apple cultist I would not have said things like:

"The icon thing: Yeah, that IS a blatant rip off by Apple. No question at all in my mind about that."

or

"And Apple could have rejected his app for the exact reasons stated - now I'm not sure I believe that since I do not take anything Apple says as the gospel truth but I'm not saying that it is outside the realm of possibility."

Both quotes copied from my post above which is unedited from the time I posted it. A REAL Apple cultist/ fanboi/ worshipper/ whatever would not have said the first derogatory thing about Apple. But go ahead and call me an apologist I could really care less - I brought it up to expose how you insult and label those who disagree with you just like the troll you are.

So in short you have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. Have a great weekend sailor boy and thanks for playing.

0 Votes

+ -

Nice try...

SonofaSailor 10th Jun

@athynz

If you care to look back at the title of my original post, I said: "I'd like to hear the Apple apologist's take on this..."

To which you responded. Don't get mad at me because I asked for the Apple apologists to stand up, and you jumped out of your seat.

You yourself reached out for that crown, now you have to wear it.

And, really? Next time try not to quote lines from a 10 year old movie.

0 Votes

+ -

RE: Is Apple 'borrowing' features from rejected apps? No.

sip01 10th Jun

@athynz "The icon thing: Yeah, that IS a blatant rip off by Apple. No question at all in my mind about that. Unfortunately there isn't much Mr Hughes can do about it unless he was able to patent that particular icon image."

Do you even use Mac OS? Mr Hughes' icon is a blatant rip-off of two of Apple's original icons -- WiFi and Sync -- which he simply merged. Even my 3 year old grandkid knows that if you merge the two functions you simply merge the two icons (Apple property, remember?) to depict the merged service/function.

So, Mr Hughes could never have patented or trademarked the merged icons because they belong to Apple.

0 Votes

+ -

RE: Is Apple 'borrowing' features from rejected apps? No.

Peter Perry 10th Jun

And all the Apple fans still wonder why I hate the companies Politics!

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

Apple is better

articlewriter 10th Jun

I don't think Apple is stealing ideas. I come up with inventions all the time and realize someone else had come up with the exact same invention almost at the same time. I'd prefer Apple end up with ideas like this anyway, because they always develop them better. Besides, it's just common sense if you don't have a patent you're wasting your time.. if the guy sold thousands of copies of his jail broken app, why not patent the idea and solidify it.. oops, another dev crapped the bed

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

RE: Is Apple 'borrowing' features from rejected apps? No.

acltd 10th Jun

Doesn't apples app store policies state that any app that changes the way the device works or iTunes works will be rejected? If it is rejected does that mean apple cannot do wifi syncing ever? I guarantee you Hughes doesn't have a patent on this let alone first to invent. As for the icon thats a whole other thing. Remember when the airview app had to change their logo?

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

Did this developer

oncall Updated - 10th Jun

Discover, invent, develop or hold a patent to wireless sync? Because if he does I'd say he has a check coming from Apple (and several other companies) in the not too distant future. But we all know he does not, because all the Microsoft fans will stand up and proclaim "Wireless sync is nothing new, Zune has had it for years, etc." So, he either borrowed the idea from an open source project or borrowed it from some other patent holder. All this silly talk about how he is going to sue Apple, he is probably damn lucky he isn't being handed a subpoena right now from whomever DOES hold a patent on wireless sync tech.

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

Um, didn't they hire this guy to work on the wireless sync

fr_gough 10th Jun

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

RE: Is Apple 'borrowing' features from rejected apps? No.

Pete "athynz" Athens 10th Jun

@fr_gough No they hired the guy who did the notifications...

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

Kinda weird logic here...

TheWerewolf 10th Jun

"Apple doesn?t get any source code, so there?s no way code could have been ?lifted.? Bottom line, unless the dev had a patent, there?s just no case."

You don't need source code to use someone else's idea. You're confusing concept plagarism with code plagarism.

This is why we have design patents and trademark laws.

It's entirely possible that while Apple had all the bits (as you note), no one at Apple ever thought of the bits in the combination that WiFi Sync had them in and then thought 'well, it's rejected, so why not incorporate some of the ideas in our own app.'

It's easy to point to other examples of exactly this: Konfabulator was lifted to become Dashboard, for example.

The argument that the guy who wrote WiFi Sync didn't patent or trademark his app doesn't nullify the argument that Apple lifted concepts from it - it only nullifies Apple's legal indemnity.

But we're not talking legal issues here - we're talking about a company that makes a big deal about how everyone copies them and no one else is clever enough to be as good AS them... so when Apple lifts someone else's designs, it's actually a big deal because it's catching Apple in a lie.

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

Too technical

sagec 10th Jun

@TheWerewolf,

You're getting a bit to technical for akh wink

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

RE: Is Apple 'borrowing' features from rejected apps? No.

mep01378 10th Jun

@jacec

or is there too much critical thinking?

0 Votes

+ -

Yes, but ...........

Economister 10th Jun

@TheWerewolf

the halo will STILL let them into heaven. wink

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

RE: Is Apple 'borrowing' features from rejected apps? No.

roger that 11th Jun

@TheWerewolf
Several of us here at my company have been using our own version of this to sync our iPods since 2005. We never plug them in. Almost everybody has used WiFi syncing. It's simple to create and use. Apple didn't do it earlier because they wanted to force folks to buy Macs for syncing their devices.

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

RE: Is Apple 'borrowing' features from rejected apps? No.

joedaddy715 10th Jun

What a load of crap. Apple can steal ideas but its ok to sue Samsung because their phone looks similar to yours.

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

To steal an idea ... the idea must be new

wackoae 10th Jun

@joedaddy715 Synching is not new concept invented by some little guy.

Now, there is a chance the App was rejected for using UNPUBLISHED APIs. But what the hell ... it is much better to bash Apple than to use basic logic.

Reply
Flag

0 Votes

+ -

"there is a chance"......

Economister 10th Jun

@wackoae

qualifies as logic to you? Most people would call that speculation, but fan boys can rationalize anything.

0 Votes

+ -

Unlike your post above?

oncall 10th Jun

@Economister

"I am absolutely certain that part of Apple's review process is to look for ideas."

Speculate much?

0 Votes

+ -

Naive much? (nt)

Economister Updated - 10th Jun

@oncall

NT

Edit: Besides, my point was that his post was speculation, not logic. If you want to call my statement speculation, that is fine with me, since I do not have proof. Clearly, logic is not your strength either.

0 Votes

+ -

You have proof then

oncall 10th Jun

@Economister

To back up your speculation. Let's see it.

0 Votes

+ -

Real life lessons

Economister Updated - 10th Jun

@oncall

In a dog eat dog, survival of the fittest, large corporate environment, there are NO morals and NO ethics. You do whatever you think you can get away with, and if that includes stomping on the little guys, you do that. If you were in charge of App review at Apple and did NOT look for ideas, you would be fired.

I do not really care what you think of my posts, whether you call them stupid, speculation, or whatever, but you clearly are either an Apple apologist or a babe in the woods (or both) as far as large corporate conduct is concerned. This is the main reason I am very critical of both Apple AND MS, and I am growing increasingly uneasy about Google as well. All large corporations want to get their hands in your pocket by whatever means they can get away with, including lying, cheating and bribing. This is one reason ANY corporate fan boy behavior simply boggles my mind, and why I am attracted to FOSS. My freedom from control and manipulation is a VERY precious thing to me, but apparently you do not share that view.

0 Votes

+ -

Ahhh

oncall 10th Jun

@wackoae

the edit my post to make it look like I anticipated the next post trick. Well allow me to retort your ad hominem arguments as they seems to be the only thing you have to contribute to any discussion here. Logically, for this developer to have a legitimate claim to having "invented wireless sync" or did something innovative with it such that "Apple stole it" he must have actually produced some novel idea that wasn't already in use by others. Now I don't know the full history of wireless sync but Apple certainly was using it when it announced the Apple TV in September 2006, pre-dating the original iPhone announcement. Zune has been using it for years and I am sure we can come up with a sufficiently large list in no time at all of devices and companies using it. Therefore, not only is it not "an original idea" but it is not this developers original idea and as such he has no claim. Indeed since Apple's use of wireless sync pre-dates the iPhone, if anything, this developer "borrowed" the idea from Apple.

0 Votes

+ -

Real life lessons

oncall 10th Jun

@Economister

As you know ad hominem attacks and cries for patriotism and/or freedom carry no weight in the REAL business world or the courts so save them for someone who cares.

0 Votes

+ -