Is it too late for managed Blu-ray and HD-DVD copying?

Is it too late for managed Blu-ray and HD-DVD copying?

Summary: Licensing discussions are underway which could see consumers being given the right to make a number of legitimate copies of HD DVD and Blu-ray movies. But is it too late for managed copying?

TOPICS: Security, Servers

Licensing discussions are underway which could see consumers being given the right to make a number of legitimate copies of HD DVD and Blu-ray movies.  But is it too late for managed copying?

So the AACS LA do believe that relaxing the DRM will boost salesThe agreement, if it gets support from the movie studios, could see consumers being able to buy HD DVD and Blu-ray discs that would allow them to make a backup copies of discs and a copy for a media center server.  The AACS hope that this managed copy scheme would undermine the argument that DRM deprives users of a legal right to make a backup copy or move content between devices.  The only catch, consumers would have to buy (at extra cost, no doubt) a premium disc with AACS copy protection that allows for managed copying.

Michael Ayers, an AACS representative, is quoted as saying "We are optimistic that the studios will see this as a benefit that will drive sales."  So the AACS LA do believe that relaxing the DRM will boost sales.

But I can't help but feel that this is too little, too late.  Hackers have already provided people with a way to exercise fair use already, without paying a premium.  This managed copy scheme could be nothing more than a way for the studios to make some extra cash from those that don't want to venture into the dark side to make copies.


Topics: Security, Servers

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  • Exactly...

    Quit with the premium crap. I shouldn't have to pay more for anti-cripple technology to begin with. That's stupid since it wasn't there until this whole DRM thing came about.

    They still don't get it. I want the same functionality I have now at the same price (if at the least.. LESS). That's it. I don't want to pay more or I'll just "copy" it the way I do now.
    • If they want to make money...

      Sell a piece of software that copies the product plain and simple. One that doesn't require frequent updates to get around the protection or to make the quality better (because of the anti-copying technology).

      Why not enter the software world and make your money by selling a product for 50 bucks that many will buy?
      • won't work

        If the software doesn't download regular updates, that would imply it would be fixed. If the software is fixed, how long do you think it'll take hackers to decompile or reverse engineer functionality from assembly?

        Not long.

        Which means no more exclusivity on process, which drives down price and profit. Not to mention hands everyone the keys to the content-- and bye bye content protection at that point. Which begs the question, why even bother developing that software?
  • How about No?

    No thanks. I won't pay for crippled rights that can be revoked at a moment's notice.
    tic swayback
    • More no.

      How about NO to BluRay and Hd-DVD? Tell the MPAA to go down to Best Buy and have a look at all the SACD and DVD-Audio titles they carry. See what they think about the smell of sucess.
  • Legal Hacks

    In Australia, it is a requirement that a user be able able to make a backup copy of software. When someone broke the PS protection to enable backups, Sony took them to court and LOST!

    Pity the same is not available for audio/video, but discussions are afoot to allow transfers to another medium (but not duplication on the same medium) for audio (not yet DVD).
  • Yes it's too late.

    Besides, why would we pay more for the right to do what we're legally allowed to do anyway? Oh yeah that abortion of a law called DMCA. How about we just repeal that and re-write something that makes sense and doesn't make criminals of us all for doing legal things?
    I suspect the "illegal" products that let us do this will work better and be more flexible anyway, so I'll stick with those...
    if I ever start buying either of these formats anyway which won't be until the format war is over. No signs of that yet.
    • content and license

      What is legal and what is not is dictated by fair "use"-- and that is ambiguous enough as it is.

      The problem is people and copyright. Many people think they have the right to copy anything because they bought it-- and they don't. Not even to make a backup. Not without explicit permission. You paid for one copy-- that's it.

      The problem is content industries are slick-- they don't sell licenses to the content. The sell a copy of the content on its media. So if you bought the Matrix on DVD-- nothing guarantees that you are entitled to a copy of it on HD-DVD. How do they make money? By selling the same content over and over again, rather than licensing the content-- for all formats present and future, because that cuts them out of future profits!

      And THAT my friends, is where legislation fails the average joe. By not requiring that content be *licensed* to its purchasers, rather than the copy of the media the content is purchased on.
      • Legal versus reasonable

        "The problem is people and copyright. Many people think they have the right to copy anything because they bought it-- and they don't. Not even to make a backup. Not without explicit permission. You paid for one copy-- that's it."

        You're absolutely correct. And "many people" is probably "most people". Because most people consider it reasonable to make a backup copy of any media. Most people also don't consider making a copy of media for friends on the "P2P sneakernet" to be piracy, although technically it is.

        Why? Not any of the Hollywood reasons (because it's easy, because they can, etc.), but because of the old Borland rule--treat copyrighted media like a book--only one person may read it at a time. Odds are, two or a larger small number of people with a copy of a given piece of media aren't going to watch it simultaneously. They could, but aren't likely to. This, of course, goes out the window with online P2P. On the other end, book publishers would probably have libraries outlawed if the concept was invented today.

        Whether it's speed limits, drinking ages, or copyright law, people usually go by what is reasonable, not the law, unless they have a strong enough reason to believe they will get caught. And they will usually put up a protest when they do. And, inevitably, lawnorder types will tell them to put up or shut up, when all they really want is to be treated reasonably.

        So why do we have unreasonable laws, then? Check the RIAA's and MPAA's checkbook register.
      • Not entirely true

        "The problem is people and copyright. Many people think they have the right to copy anything because they bought it-- and they don't. Not even to make a backup. Not without explicit permission. You paid for one copy-- that's it."

        That depends on where you live. It's perfectly legal for me to make a backup of a DVD/HD-DVD/Blue-ray disk I happen to own, no matter what Sony or anyone else might think about it. As longs as:
        1. I bought it in the first place, and
        2. I don't distribute it.

        If I follow those two, Sony or whoever can't do a thing about it. In fact, we even have a tax on blank media that's intended to compensate the copyright owners for rampant piracy.
  • Catch 22

    This reminds me of Microsoft: you get to pay for the DRM that protects *them*! It must be some sort of mass insanity in the content industry: they want all the control with none of the responsibility, and you get all the responsibility with none of the control.
  • They can't rape the customer forever.

    There will come a point where the customer will say ENOUGH. Today the customers are barely tolerating being treated as slaves and criminals by the media cartels, but this can change if the cartels keep pushing.

    Right now, the prime defenders of the cartels are Congressmen who are so secure in their own districts that they can afford to abuse with impunity the entire American consumer population. People like Fritz Hollings and Lamar Smith who were bought and paid for by the cartels could care less how it hurts you and me, because we don't live in their districts. People who are supposed to look out for us at the national level (like the president) are too busy dealing with their own pet crises (like Iraq) to worry if the average Joe is getting screwed.

    As far as I can tell, the only way to fight back is civil disobedience to a set of rapacious and unconscionable laws. Until the cartels are broken, I will not shed a tear for "lost profits" due to people doing what they can to beat the system.
    terry flores
  • BluRay Already has this Feature! ;)

    Managed Copy is a part of the Security Features and is one of them requested by HP. Is it too late for HD-DVD? Probably! It's a system destined for extinction.

    Personally I'm looking forward to the additional features of BluRay BD+ on my Sony PS3!!! =D

    *** BD+

    BD+ is effectively a small virtual machine embedded in authorized players. It allows content providers to include executable programs on Blu-ray discs. Such programs can [14]:
    examine the host environment, to see if the player has been tampered with. Every licensed playback device manufacturer must provide the BD+ licensing authority with memory footprints that identifies their devices.
    Verify that the player's keys have not been changed.
    execute native code, possibly to patch an otherwise unsecure system.
    Transform the audio and video output. Parts of the content will not be viewable without letting the BD+-program descramble it.

    If a playback device manufacturer finds that its devices have been hacked, it can potentially release BD+-code that detects and circumvents the vulnerability. These programs can then be included in all new content releases.

    The specifications of the BD+ virtual machine are only available to licensed device manufacturers.

    *** BD-ROM Mark

    The BD-ROM Mark is a small amount of cryptographical data that is stored physically differently from normal Blu-ray data. Bit-by-bit copies that don't replicate the BD-ROM Mark are impossible to decode. A specially licensed piece of hardware is required to insert the ROM-mark into the media during replication. Through licensing of the special hardware element, the BDA believes that it can eliminate the possibility of mass producing BD-ROMs without authorization.

    *** Mandatory Managed Copy

    Blu-ray Disc also mandates a Mandatory Managed Copy system, which allows users to copy content a limited number of times, but requiring registration with the content provider to acquire the keys needed; This feature was originally requested by HP.
  • All I can say is...

    No thanks!
    • Gee I must Have Mental Telepathy!

      Who would have thunk you could think for yourself, and actually make a logical decision that reflected the truth by your name. Frankly I own both consoles and like each for different reasons. Full blowin "in your name" Fandom is for people with closed minds to the future!
      • Ummm.

        I have a feeling you replied to the wrong post.
  • Coping is Easy

    DVD coping is easy and there will be software available to make coping bluray and HD don't worry ,oh and it's legal in most of the world