Kinect and the RRoD ... coincidence or not?

Kinect and the RRoD ... coincidence or not?

Summary: While Microsoft denies that there is any connection between its new motion-sensing controller Kinect and Xbox consoles suffering the dreaded Red Ring of Death (RRoD) failures, the complaints from users keep rolling in.

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While Microsoft denies that there is any connection between its new motion-sensing controller Kinect and Xbox consoles suffering the dreaded Red Ring of Death (RRoD) failures, the complaints from users keep rolling in.

Here's a selection of comments I've received in over the past few weeks from people who believe their console died after hooking it up to a Kinect controller:

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I purchased a Kinect and games bundle yesterday 27/02/2011 from my local Argos store. All was plugged in correctly. I calibrated the sensor as per intructions. I carried out all updated as per onscreen messages. On one of the updates my console froze. I rebooted an all was ok.

I continued with all updates and all appeared ok. Whilst playing Kinect adventures after approx an hour the screen console started to freeze more and more and then the dreaded RROD. If I leave console for a while I can play again and then RROD appears after console freezing again!

This appears to me to be TOO MUCH of a coincidence as I'd not had any problems with any games or the console before I pugged in Kinect and carried out all the updates!!

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 I have the older version of the Xbox 360. I believe mine is about 3 years old now. Never experienced the RRoD until I just bought the Kinect for my girls for Christmas. Within 2 days of playing the Kinect our system has failed with the RRoD. Tried disconnecting the Kinect but the Xbox 360 no longer works. I really don't think it is coincidence. My girls have played the Xbox360 frequently enough. It was not until we hooked up Kinect that we have problems.

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I've got an xbox elite that I've had for approximately 3.5 years. I've played off and on for those 3.5 years with heavy play following new releases of COD games. I've recently been playing a lot because of the new Black Ops game (probably 1 to 2 hours a night, 4 nights a week since the release). Over Christmas I got an Kinect and since then I've played a few times. Probably about 3 hours of total time spread out over a week or two. I just turned on my xbox this evening and immediately got the RROD. The xbox logo hadn't even splashed on the screen so I don't see how it's an overheating problem. I guarantee the Kinect is causing RROD problems. I had been playing my xbox regularly since Black Ops came out with no problems. Three hours of accumulated time with the Kinect and I get the RROD, pretty small odds that after 3.5 years (and thousands of hours of playtime) I suddenly have the problem.

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Yes, i have a Xbox 360 that i almost never play, once plugging in the Kinect i starting getting a rrod after a day of play. This is very frustrating as i have only played my xbox for a total of about 10 hrs. I have most likely a couple hundred hours in my wii.

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Our old 360 mfg dated 12-17-2005 has worked reliably since day one, used regularly, at least once a week, more offer during the winter months. Purchased a Kinect before Christmas, plugged it in, and it went into the RRoD while performing the setup for the first game.

Not too upset about it, we got good service from it, but it is suspicious it died within minutes of plugging in the Kinect!

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It happened to me. Had an elite with not problems for just over 3 years. Got kinect the week it came out (Nov). Worked great for 3 weeks, then RROD. The kinect was plugged into the device when it died. I thought it was bad luck. Hope there is something more then mere coincidence.

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I used to believe that Kinect-related Xbox RRoD deaths were purely coincidental, but given the amount of feedback I've had from owners who have suffered console deaths, I'm now of the opinion that if I had a old-style console that was out of warranty (pre slimline version - the new version seems unaffected), I wouldn't connect a Kinect to it unless I was willing to shell out the dough on a replacement console.

[poll id="602"]

Topics: Mobility, Hardware, Microsoft

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67 comments
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  • RE: Kinect and the RRoD ... coincidence or not?

    I guess the additional hardware load due the image processing makes the XBoxes overheat.
    karnok.d@...
    • ADK and another MS bashing article based on hearsay

      Coincidence or Not!

      My Kinect is working fine btw ;-)
      tonymcs@...
      • Didn't back in the original problem

        @tonymcs@...
        Others have XBox that worked just fine?

        Pagan jim
        James Quinn
      • RE: Kinect and the RRoD ... coincidence or not?

        @James

        I'm sure they did, just adding my bit of hearsay as well ;-)
        tonymcs@...
      • Sony is the one guilty of 'Bricking' consoles!

        @tonymcs@...
        I don't think Microsoft would brick any more consoles than what they already have getting bricked by heat naturally. Keep your console cool and you most likely won't see a failure!

        But...... with Sony and PS3's you can bet they put out badly coded firmware updates that has bricked more consoles than Xbox 360's. I've had two 360's.... one died and the other is still running fine even with Connect and new games!

        I've had 3 PS3 and none of them work anymore. Two by firmware updating and the first one was hard drive replaced under warranty! ....I don't think two firmware updates killing two consoles in the same house is a coincidence!

        If it was Sony.... you can bet it was done on purpose. I'll never buy another Sony product again...... ever!!!!
        i2fun@...
      • RE: Kinect and the RRoD ... coincidence or not?

        @i2fun@... <br>I guess you missed the Million+ xbox 360s that were intentionally bricked by Microsoft a little over a year ago. Unless you believe that the xbox 360 is Microsofts property and the end user has no right to swap out their Hard Drives. Sure in order to install a larger Hard Drive requires a Hack, as Microsoft did not offer a 250 GB drive, and the 120 GB Drive they did offer was ridiculously overpriced. Why pay $150 for a 120 GB Drive, when you can buy a 250GB Drive for $59?
        Rick_K
      • RE: Kinect and the RRoD ... coincidence or not?

        @Pagan Jim I bet the story is dust... Dust in a fan will cause an overheat like nothing else.
        snoop0x7b
      • RE: Kinect and the RRoD ... coincidence or not?

        @tonymcs@... ?

        If you don't recall, teh xBox 360 in teh early days you were basically guarrantied to get a Defective system! Elite narrowed that to about 30% based on the Elite Configuration. But lets be smart here, AI, Additional physics, more processing needed to render and everything else. All this being the direct connect to teh trashy ATI ouput, the RROD isn't gonna just dissapear, Kinnect will only make the few which havent' failed yet fail. If MS was smart they would leave the console wars, considerate on the WIndwos Platform and leave teh Console war to teh ones that know whats up like Sony, and Nintendo. Just becuase something is cheaper doesn't mean it is over all better, it just means that it is less effective at it's job, and one of those jobs is to continue to work reliably. only about 30% of PS3 fail, and the ones that do can use a simple Cooling MOD and it will work, unlike the xBox where the problem is so deep that it isn't just a simple Cooling option.


        Microsoft, you need to wake up. Fix the stuff or leave. 720 was suppose to be released by now, and yet your wasting your time on a broken machine that has proven itself to not be fixable without a total over haul. Give it up, Stop producing xBox 360, save your money for the 720 if it works right. Or Stop Consoles all together and stuck to what you can do, because Gaming isn't one of them, it never has.

        If you were to ask a common opinion about what was the turn of the xBox success, it was removing teh nVidia ION graphics from teh system 3 weeks after teh initial xBox 360 release. Should have listened to teh Pro's, and the pro's are the people who play it, not particularly the ones that make it!!!
        Ez_Customs
      • RE: Kinect and the RRoD ... coincidence or not?

        @tonymcs@...

        BYW hacking a PS3 in any level will cause problems, and if you didn't hack it, how could you no know updating on any Wireless device isn't and shouldn't' be done to connect to the internet on anything sensitive, while updating. It probably isn't Sony's fault, it is probably you being lazy and and cheap, using a Crappy Wi-Fi network router, and if your as smart as you look in text, your probably as far away from the WiFi Radio source as possible. Don't go arguing the WiFi Card in theh PS3, it typically perform's better then most PC WiFi Adapters! Don't hate because of your stupidity. As with any system you should never update on WiFi, even with PC's. PS3 Failure is less then half the going rate of xBox, probably closer to 30% of the xBox 360. I play the PS3 and or my kids and it is on all day long watching Movies and games, music and streaming video off my Windows 7 Network (Something xBox sucks at which is funny because it is built on Windows Vista and the newer ones on Windows 7). Funny isn't it. And on top of that, Sony says it shouldn't be on more then 2 hours at a time and should cool for 30 minutes before turning on again, having been on almost 80% of the day for 2 years straight, it still works flawless. That is more then you can say about 360. BTW Wired Network and never WiFi. I am not a Cheater, so WiFi on gaming anything isn't done!!

        Over all PS3 has abotu 25% Defect rate, and Sony knows how to fix it, unlike MS. In a year or so if teh xBox trend continues even after Kinect released, xBox will die off, and with the recent seperation of 10 xBox Developers who use to be exclusive, now developing for Sony, the days are numbered. Kinect wasnt' ever intended to save xBox, it was intended only to extend the 360 to buy time to complete the 720, which keeps getting pushed back. Today now 6 years later!! Serves them right, go back to simple hardware like Mice, and or Software like Office. That's where MS belongs, not in the Console war.
        Ez_Customs
    • RE: Kinect and the RRoD ... coincidence or not?

      @karnok.d@...I do believe you are correct. MS initially planned to build a processor into the Kinect itself, but decided not to because of the cost and as a result the Kinect uses the processor int the Xbox 360. The problem is that this does put a load on the processor which will cause it to heat up. However any high end game will do so as well, put a consistent heavy load on the processor. What the author doesn't state is how many Kinects were sold, without the new console, and how many of those experienced the RROD witin a short period time. Considering from I have read that MS sold well over 2 million to date, and I believe a majority of them were sold for the older style Xbox 360, having a few dozen users experience the RROD dosn't indicate the Kinect caused the problem. It could be that these consoles were ready to fail even if they played a demanding game.
      wthilo@...
      • RE: Kinect and the RRoD ... coincidence or not?

        @wthilo@...

        You could be right ont eh system used on it, but the author doesn't need to to specify. The actually chance that this statement is proven true is so high that it is sickening that a company would release such a disaster. It is really a shame. We shouldn't be hating on MS 100% though, we should be hating on Steve Balmer and his choices he makes. The Guy can hardly talk with confidence, little lone make smart decisions on who should design what.

        But this will play out. I know from people I know to have the new Kinect Bundles. of the 15 who bought it, 10 went back to the store, and 4 get hot in minutes. That says something. yeah small numbers, but your claim on 2 mil sold, well that's probably wrong. then again MS profits were based on 3 mil units sold, making kinect a failure on the MS side.

        BTW I don't hate the xBox because it is MS, matter of fact I wish it was reliable enough to buy simply for the games, but those awesome games don't mean anything if the system fails, and well I can get a better versions on Games for Windows Live which are also on the xBox, so with that said, if the xBox is so great, why does Games For Windows Live have every game that the xBox does? to me this is MS admitting that there is a bigger problem
        Ez_Customs
    • RE: Kinect and the RRoD ... coincidence or not?

      @karnok.d@...
      That's was I immediately thought when I started reading the article!
      Bit-Smacker
  • RE: Kinect and the RRoD ... coincidence or not?

    XBoxes have always been shaky. There could be a link, but I'm assuming not. What could be happening is they are overheating due to the extra demands put on the hardware, but since consoles are these things that companies absolutely REFUSE to lets us tinker with, even going as a far as to prevent us from opening the cases, there's no way to know for sure.

    This is why I refuse to buy consoles of any kind, especially Sony's crap, but I thought Microsoft would know better by now. I should be able to open up an XBox to clean the dust out every month. That, and I deplore console gaming in general. W+S+A+D+Mouse = Headshots baby!
    The one and only, Cylon Centurion
    • Message has been deleted.

      msalzberg
      • Message has been deleted.

        i2fun@...
    • RE: Kinect and the RRoD ... coincidence or not?

      @Cylon Centurion 0005

      Ok guys, what did I miss?
      The one and only, Cylon Centurion
  • RE: Kinect and the RRoD ... coincidence or not?

    RRoD is the result of using solder without lead. Lead is a health hazard when direct contact with the skin. Lead is also the substance that makes the solder so effective in holding components together. The replacement compounds simply can not stand up to the heat. And when you add in the extra computing needed for the Kinect or any other extra controller the leadless solder simply comes apart. So it is no coincidence, it is inevitable.
    Jboard
    • RE: Kinect and the RRoD ... coincidence or not?

      @Jboard
      Not always the case, as gold tin works better than lead tin. High reliability electronics have used a mixture of 20% gold and 80% tin for the last few decades. Granted consumer electronics are not considered high reliability devices. But when you have a satellite in orbit, you want to make sure it is going to work reliably due to cost of repair.
      Rick_K
      • RE: High reliability electronics

        @Rick_K <br><br>I have had an experience with some "supposed" high reliability electronics.<br><br>Without getting into a lot of detail, when I worked in radio in the 1980's, the station was plagued with constant loss of the transmitter telemetry link. The FCC did not take a fond view of stations that can not control their transmitters (ours was 26 miles away from the studio).<br><br>The engineers tore that unit apart, and discovered these interesting design choices.<br><br>1) All IC's were in <b>tin plated</b> sockets.<br><br>2) The motherboard was mounted with the IC's upside down.<br><br>3) Thermal cycling caused the IC pins to expand and contract; ultimately resulting in the chips <b>falling out of the sockets!</b><br><br>The cure was to replace each IC socket with a gold plated one, and leave room between the socket and the board to allow a ty-rap to be used to physically hold the chips in place. It is my understanding that complaints from many stations forced the manufacturer to re-design the board with the chips on the top, and use gold plated sockets. They also had to replace quite a few units out in the field that suffered from those design choices.
        fatman65535
      • RE: Kinect and the RRoD ... coincidence or not?

        @fatman65535
        Having spent 10 years working in the DoD/NASA electronics field. I found very few of the products were soldered using SN63 (63% Tin/37% lead). The majority of the boards that were destine for Military fighters, and or, Satellites used 80/20 Gold/Tin (which is screwy, as it contains 80% Tin and 20% gold). Still the point I am making is: Using gold/tin provides better conductivity, and corrosion resistance over the old lead/tin (which was more commonly used in consumer electronics).
        Rick_K