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Hardware 2.0

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Linux, cheap PCs and the effect this will have on Microsoft

By | December 10, 2007, 6:49am PST

Over the weekend a few regulars sent me a link to an article on DesktopLinux.com which looked at the effect that cheap Linux-powered desktop PCs would have on Microsoft.  Should Microsoft fear the cheap PC revolution?  Personally, I don’t think so.

First, let’s set a framework for the discussion by looking at operating system share trends.  According to data provided by Net Applications, the state of play for November 2007 stood as follows:

  • Windows - 92.42%
  • Mac - 6.80%
  • Linux - 0.57%
  • iPhone - 0.09%
  • PlayStation - 0.02%
  • SunOS - 0.01%
  • Other - 0.09%

For November 2006, things stood like this:

  • Windows - 94.16%
  • Mac - 5.39%
  • Linux - 0.37%
  • PlayStation - 0.02%
  • SunOS - 0.01%
  • Other - 0.05%

If we break that down into operating system versions, here’s the data for November 2007:

  • XP - 78.37%
  • Vista - 9.19%
  • Mac Intel - 3.59%
  • Mac OS - 3.22%
  • Win 2K - 2.97%
  • Win 98 - 0.76%
  • Other - 1.90%

And the data for the November 2006:

  • XP - 84.95%
  • Vista - 0.11%
  • Mac Intel - 1.29%
  • Mac OS - 4.10%
  • Win 2K - 5.46%
  • Win 98 - 1.90%
  • Other - 2.19%

The main attraction of cheap hardware with Linux loaded onto it is the cheap hardwareTaking a broad overview you come to the conclusion that apart from the iPhone appearing in the list, not an awful lot has changed in a year.  Taking a closer look at the numbers and you’ll see how there’s been a slight dip in the numbers of Windows users and a slight gain in the numbers of Mac users.  So, currently the platform shift isn’t happening at the low-end of the price spectrum but at the higher end.  So far, there’s no evidence to suggest that Microsoft has anything to worry about when it comes to cheap PCs. 

OK, but might this not all change next year as more companies begin offering cheap Linux-based PCs?  I can’t see it happening.  First off, margins are tight in the PC business already and pushing a cheap PC, especially when you’re at the sub $250 mark, means razor-thin margins.  Low margins means less money to spend on advertising and support.  Ever wonder why big OEMs like Dell don’t promote Linux-based systems more than they do?  It’s because the margins are already so small that even big companies have to watch how they spend the pennies and focus on high-yield systems because that’s where the money is (and partly these same big OEMs are having to watch the pennies because of spending too much time focusing on price and devaluing PCs almost to the point where there wasn’t any money in selling them).  The $200 PC isn’t going to go away, but don’t expect big ad campaigns or heavy promotion either because any company going down that road would be committing suicide.  These budget systems are going to have to sell themselves. 

So where does these cheap PC fit into the equation?  From what I can tell, there are two kinds of people buying cheap PCs - geeks, and geeks buying them for someone else.  Sure, I’m certain that a few have been bought by people who are new to PCs and who’ve been waiting for the price to come down, but the market in developed countries of people who are new onto the PC ladder is a pretty small one.  The main attraction of cheap hardware with Linux loaded onto it is the cheap hardware. 

All in all, the article is nothing more than deck of cards built on the shaky foundation of wishful thinking with a few guesses thrown in for good measure. 

Thoughts?

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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Ubuntu 7.10 live sucks
ds4211a@... 7th Jan 2008
I realize that my subject may sound a little off the topic. So I will address that issue first. Ubuntu is the second most popular Linux distribution according to the latest DistroWatch posting. PCLinux is number one and Open SuSe is third. So Ubuntu is a popular version of Linux.

I have been using Open SuSe 10.2 for quite a while now. I like it pretty well except it takes forever to update. I do have PCLinuxOS 2007 live that I like to run sometimes. It is quite impressive and I have considered installing it. But it is based on Mandriva and Mandriva has been problematic every time I've tried to install it. It has never worked properly.

I had tried Ubuntu 6.10 and it worked fine on my PC's. So I decided to try Ubuntu 7.10. I downloaded the software, did the checksum, and burned a live CD. I did tried to run the live CD and my system hung. I ran the self-check on the CD. The CD was fine according to the self check. I also ordered a CD from Ubuntu. I also tried running the live CD on another PC. In fact it is the one that I have Suse 10.2 working just fine on.

So I did what Ubuntu suggested and contacted their forum. I noted that other people seemed to be having similar problems with the live CD. I read through all the posted replies to what seemed like a similar problem. I tried the suggestions without success. So I explained the problem that I was having and requested assistance. I also read through all the installation logs and tried to solve the problem on my own.

I received a few replies, to my post to the forum, and tried the suggested remedies without success. One person suggested that he had trouble with the lived CD. He said that he was able to run the full version. So I ordered the full version Ubuntu 7.10 DVD and a DVD called Ubuntu Ultimate 1.6 from OSDisc.com. I also ordered Open SuSe 10.3 so that I could upgrade Open Suse 10.2.

Long story short. I had exactly the same problem with the Ubuntu 7.10 and Ubuntu Ultimate 1.6 DVD's as I did with the live CD's. I have spent many hours trying to get this software to work. I still don't know what the problem is. I understand that Ubuntu is on a release schedule. I guess it doesn't matter whether or not it works as long as they meet the release date.

I had no problem upgrading to Open SuSe 10.3 on one of the PC's that Ubuntu 7.10 crashes. The problem by the way is that Ubuntu 7.10 Live will not boot into the X-Window mode. I can run it fine in the command prompt mode.

My point is that Linux will never be a main stream OS until they get their act together.
There was quite a lot of discussion about Dell offering Linux pre-installed. But once they started I've seen nothing about how well they're selling (or not). Anyone have any numbers?
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PR stunt
dragosani 10th Dec 2007
Dell's Linux launch was a PR stunt and nothing else.

It was half-hearted at best.
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Man is that the truth!
Linux User 147560 10th Dec 2007
I went to check out their offerings and talk about slim pickings! And too boot it's still a bit of an effort to get to the scant Linux offering they have. Nothing more than lip service is all they have provided. devil
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No, I give Dell credit
TripleII-21189418044173169409978279405827 10th Dec 2007
It was not, imho, a PR stunt, it is the first step. They have a lot of improvements to make, however, they seriously tested the waters. Yes, the following things were true.
- at times, the Ubuntu machines were more expensive as sales happened
- it was not easy to find unless you knew you wanted to find it
- few machines.

However, now that they know the few machines will sell, look to find more offerings. They may make it easier to find the choice and once demand grows to a certain level they will not "forget" to discount the same machines when sales happen.

Personally, I think once they open up to foreign markets, they will see a very nice growth spike, justifying spending the money on refining the Linux lineup. You can't, however, complain that Dell didn't spends millions more until it had some data.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/30/ubuntu_dell_sales/

TripleII
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I don't
dragosani 10th Dec 2007
Dell has taken the shotgun approach to "fixing" their market share woes. They have fired few rounds in the air to see if a few pieces of buckshot will hit anything.

Just look at all the little gimmicks they are trying. Linux, Walmart, Best Buy, buying Alienware, ect, ect.

Their Linux adoption has less effort this time then back in the late 90's and early 2000 when they offered RedHat.
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It is easy to spend someone else's money.
TripleII-21189418044173169409978279405827 10th Dec 2007
I agree, more could be done to make Ubuntu a more attractive option, advertising, more machines, etc, but that costs money. With 40K machines, lets assume nominal post sale revenue of $100K ($25 profit off these machines, all said and done). From that they subtract the engineering costs, integration costs, website costs, support channel costs, etc.

I would LOVE to see them offer Ubuntu/PCLinuxOS side by side on every machine, right on every web page, but cost is a factor.

What surprises me is Ubuntu not taking a more pro-active approach. Provide customized images to Dell for ALL PCs (heck, they could even invoke the community itself, i could image my D620 for them). Start advertising with Dell (share the cost), etc.

I think Dell has the feedback to know that despite their extremely modest efforts, demand is there, and if they build it, it will sell.

Now, one thing I agree with, Dell needs to expand from the cheapest, low budget hardware systems and offer a mainstream higher end systems. I hope that is their next step.

TripleII
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Meant $1M (nt)
TripleII-21189418044173169409978279405827 10th Dec 2007
NT
Since they already own the website, I dont see a lot of extra dollars to put up a little something
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The are visible....
bportlock 11th Dec 2007
.... at least on the UK website. They are in the first navigation group at the top left for "Home" PCs.

http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/desktops?c=uk&cs=ukdhs1&l=en&s=dhs

Clicking on the link takes you through to the "builder" and for the desktop you get 3 processor types, 1-4GB of RAM, 19 or 22" display. 250GB - 640GB HDD, nVidia, etc

It is not a budget machine the way that some people on here talk about it. Some of the MS-Fanboys here give the impression that you'll be lucky to get a Celeron with 256MB of RAM and a Gig of disk....
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Dell and Demand
lmenningen 10th Dec 2007
Triplell wrote: "I think Dell has the feedback to know that despite their extremely modest efforts, demand is there, and if they build it, it will sell."

but wait a minute - Dell doesn't anticipate demand and then build to it, instead customers specifies and THEN Dell builds it. Low sales means low demand.
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You have to look at the effort
TripleII-21189418044173169409978279405827 10th Dec 2007
First year, close to 33% of those who said they wanted it at ideastorm bought it. The demand was there despite their very modest offerings and non obvious purchase path at their web site. Let's face it, these were purchased by people who knew how to find Linux and had heard/knew it was being offered.

That is a pretty good indicator that ideastorm was NOT just bluster. Now, the next most popular topic is more machines (i.e. not just bottom tier) in more countries with more prominent access on their website.

TripleII
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Responding to Tripwell
daengbo 11th Dec 2007
Some people may argue that a third of Ideastorm suggestions turning into purchases is not that high, but there are quite a few of us who bought computers this year, wanted to purchase them from Dell, and weren't able to because we live in countries which aren't in the test market.
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Sorry, daengbo
Ole Man 11th Dec 2007
I don't think Tripwell is equipped to handle
foreign nations. But I'm sure Dell and some
of the other OEM's can service you online.

If you can't get satisfaction online, post
your address here with the specifications
for what you want, and I will give you a
quote for whatever you require, build it and
ship it to you upon receipt of payment.

You can't beat that, can you?
0 Votes
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Mine is an Inspiron E1505
Update victim 11th Dec 2007
Intel Core2 Duo, T5300 @ 1.73 Ghz, DVD +RW, 1 GB memory, Pro Wireless 3945 ABG Network connector, High capacity battery and the usual assortment of other hardware.

It is definitely NOT their bottom end offering.
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They still offer RedHat ...
mwagner@... 11th Dec 2007
... but no one wanted it on the desktop so it is only available on Dell servers.
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Mistaken assumptions
gsteele531@... 13th Dec 2007
It is not in Dell's business interests to offer low-end computers; Dell is only peripherally a computer company. If you look at their business structure, they are really part computer company, part bank. Other vendors build machines, package them, ship them to retailers at a discount, bill the retailers, and get paid net 30/45/60. Could easily reach a two month negative float between payment for cost of goods sold and payment for accounts receivable. Dell takes your order and your money, buys the goods, builds the machine, and sends to you at list price. That's a positive float, and they get to play investment banker with your money before the bills come due. Nothing against Dell here - that's why their machines are so competitively priced, which benefits you. But the lower the revenue stream, the lower the float component of overall profit. Conversely, selling higher end machines on this model (gamer boxes, for example, which explains why Dell would go buy game machine companies) increases the float component of overall profit. Why are they now in retail stores? I think there's a story there about the business agreement. But shipping cheapos direct, unless they ship two months after payment, doesn't match their business without some other upside.
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"not in Dell's business interests"
Ole Man 13th Dec 2007
And what is your title at Dell, or what
position do you hold there? Janitor,
perhaps?

Or do you speak in the interest of all
corporations with which you are not
associated?

Perchance you should start charging a fee
for your services. But who would pay?
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Around 40K.
TripleII-21189418044173169409978279405827 10th Dec 2007
They originally targeted 20K to call it a success, and are over 40K so far. Many (including me) are hoping for an expanded lineup (i.e 17" machine).

TripleII
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To put it in perspective.
ShadeTree 10th Dec 2007
40K is about the equivelent of one day of Dell shipments. That is hardly a big success story.
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But it's a start
Michael Kelly 10th Dec 2007
It's at least enough to guarantee that there will remain an alternative operating system. And a free operating system.
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Re: But it's a start
none none 10th Dec 2007
It's at least enough to guarantee that there will remain an alternative operating system. And a free operating system.

At Dell, yes.

The only way Linux will be heavily promoted by an OEM is when the OEM needs Linux more than Linux needs the OEM.

Right now they don't need each other.



happy
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Re: To put it in perspective.
none none 10th Dec 2007
That is hardly a big success story.

It was an experiment. Dell didn't want to sell 4M Linux machines. Like the article said, and my looking corroborates. You had to search hard for the Linux offerings on Dell's website.

I would venture to say the support costs to answer calls asking where are the Linux computers was significant.

I can't corroborate it, but someone said Dell went into this thinking 20K would be a success. If that's true then, yes, 40K is a huge success story.



happy
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Linux on Dell.com hard to find? NOT!
mwagner@... 11th Dec 2007
1) Go to to dell.com.

2) Search site for "linux".

3) Select first search result.

4) Select "Shop for Ubuntu".

How hard is that?
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I trust you are being sarcastic
webservant2003@... 11th Dec 2007
I'm hoping that you are being sarcastic and don't really think that is really "simple." The average person doesn't go to Dell saying, "Hey I want to search this site to find a computer that runs Linux. I'll run a five step search to find it." First, most don't even know the word Linux. Secondly, I teach online courses, half my students don't even know the difference between the operating system and an application. They want to sit down open their laptop or turnon the desktop, click on the program they want and start working. They don't care about stability, open source, control over the code or anything of that sort. They just want to be able to surf the web, write a report, print out a banner for their kids birthday party, play a game and run whatever software they need for their business with the least amount of inconvenience.

Linux cultists don't get it. Until Linux is easier to use than windows, until the interface looks as good on the screen, until it has a few more bells and whistles, it will remain a geek toy and not break out into the mainstream. Oh, and also, it needs to do some real advertising. So that more than just those of us who read ZD-Net know about it.
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would not be so sure
agre12000@... 11th Dec 2007
Don't mean to offend you cause I was thinking like this a few months ago but then I tried PClinux2007 and wow!!! I am very impressed on how everything works ; the desktop quality and operation is very close to windows. I installed it as dual boot
(and that was a piece of cake). I'am using my XP pro less and less . I don't think i'll upgrade to vista or Mac I'am gradually converting to Linux. many people, even some ubuntu users ,are calling PClinux2007 the linux distro hopper stopper. find it on the net, burn yourself a cd and you can try it by booting on the cd without having to install it, and everything works MS and Mac may have something to worry after all......soon anyway.
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I trust YOU are being sarcastic
handydan918@... 11th Dec 2007
"Linux cultists don't get it. Until Linux is easier to use than windows, until the interface looks as good on the screen, until it has a few more bells and whistles, it will remain a geek toy and not break out into the mainstream. Oh, and also, it needs to do some real advertising. So that more than just those of us who read ZD-Net know about it."
Right. Until it's perfect...and Windows is no longer a de facto monopoly. Please. If Linux were as widely available (pre-installed by the OEM, like Windows) It would have more marketshare. And as for ease of use, if you haven't tried it in the last couple of years, you know not whereof you speak. I can update my system -kernel and apps- with just a few mouse clicks. No reboots, no searching multiple websites for patches from each manufacturer, and best of all, no subscription fees or degraded system performance from having to run AV/spyware software.
And as for advertising, exactly who do you think shoud write that check? Linux isn't a company, in case you didn't know.
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" I teach online courses"
Ole Man 11th Dec 2007
"How To Strut Your Ego?

Seems like anybody as computer illiterate as
what you describe would have some help when
shopping for a new computer. Would somebody
who knows absolutely nothing about
automobiles go shopping for one without any
assistance?

Sounds like you have a pathetic bunch of
students (probably started when they
selected you for a teacher), and they are in
no wise exemplary of students at large.

Neither are you qualified or capable of
determining what Linux is, has been, will
be, or needs. You should stick with teaching
Windows, and enlist in a class yourself if
you want to learn about Linux.
0 Votes
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See post above
TripleII-21189418044173169409978279405827 10th Dec 2007
It is twice what Dell expected in the first year. Now, let's look at the sales.

1) 40K sold ONLY to those who knew Dell was selling them. The general public would and does have NO idea from Dell's site.
2) 40K sold of their truly entry level machines. I didn't buy one, I don't want bottom of the line, i want a powerful 17" model. When it arrives at their site, I buy it. Despite what you heard, Linux user's don't only want bottom tier machines.
3) Only US offering. Demand is as great or greater (based on ideastorm, which was right about the demand) overseas in markets Dell is reluctant to sell in.

Overall, it is a great foray into Linux. They proved the concept, they will sell, and if they did this, you would then see the numbers move to the hundreds of thousands.

1) Ubuntu offered on most machines
2) Available on the same site on the same page as all their machines, no poor cousin website.
3) A choice of each machine, add $X for Vista, $Y for XP or $X for Ubuntu
4) Open it up to more than US and now the UK.

It was, however, a triple success. 1), these machines are not erroneously counted from now till the end of time as Windows machines, 2) No reason not to expand it and 3) 40K people did not fork over $3.2 Million for the MS tax.

TripleII
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And they made it real easy to buy... NOT!
lordshipmayhem 11th Dec 2007
I'm one of those 130,000 who said we'd buy one if they put one out. So far, they haven't put out a Linux desktop or laptop in my country. I either buy "gray market" or don't get one at all.

Still waiting...
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I won't buy...
Jxn 15th Dec 2007
I rather by an Leveno laptop then a Dell laptop with MS Windows.

I don't want to search a vendors site when I buy a computer. I want them to treat me as a customer (at least until I give them the money, but if they don't I won't give them my money in the first place).

To by a Dell I have to buy from a Dell site outside my country (Sweden).
I have to search for it, as it is not presented with the front side offerings.

This is not the way to treat customers. And STILL they sold 40K machines.
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... for those who really want Ubuntu on Dell to configure a Dell Windows system and buy it, then download (or even buy) Ubuntu and put it on the Dell machine they just bought with Windows pre-loaded. Dell will allow you to download all the Ubuntu drivers you need for your hardware. Has anyone tried this?
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Has happened.
TripleII-21189418044173169409978279405827 11th Dec 2007
When Dell tried back in 2000, not one of the machines with Linux pre-installed cost less than the same machine with Windows pre-installed. Amazingly, that initiative failed.

This past year, as sales happened on the line with Windows pre-installed, it came to be that the machine, with extra hardware, or just a reduced price, cost less with Windows pre-installed than with Linux pre-installed.

This one thing, Dell needs to stop with the shadow website and integrate the Ubuntu choice alongside the Windows choice, meaning that the price reductions and sales apply to the same PC.

Dell did the trial, they know it has some demand, they need to take the next step.

TripleII
0 Votes
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If most people only knew...........
Ole Man 11th Dec 2007
How easy it is to download an iso image
(which is a bootable cd) of Ubuntu (or any
one of a dozen or more distros), for zero
dollars, and burn a copy for the cost of the
blank cd, they wouldn't need to buy a new
computer (provided they already have an old
one). If they don't know how to download and
burn the cd, they can get one for chicken
feed.

It will run on almost any old computer, is
easier to install than Windows, and it's
already "activated" when it's installed,
plus there's no LGD (Linux Genuine
Disadvantage) spyware to track the user and
hound him/her for more money.

The more users learn, the more Windows
market share diminishes.
0 Votes
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Dell and the subsidy
barryj@... 11th Dec 2007
If you check the pricing on Dell's Linux offerings, the thing that jumps out is that you can buy the same system cheaper with Vista. How can this be, you say, if Vista costs $200?

Clearly, Microsoft subsidizes heavily the OS cost to Dell in order to suppress competition. If you substitute "China" for Microsoft, you could go to the World Trade court and have a case that China(Microsoft) is engaged in illegal dumping of product below cost in order to unfairly destroy competition.

Unfortunately, Congress functions as a protection mob for Microsoft, so no matter how unfairly and or illegally they act, the smart move is to buy the cheaper Win Vista system and scrub/replace it with a Linux distro.

In case you missed my point, no, Dell is not serious about selling Linux systems, nor can they afford to be at this point in time.
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I haven't seen any numbers, but
Update victim 11th Dec 2007
my next one will be from someone else.
and what does about 2% drop mean in real numbers, which is what it appears has happened to Microsoft. And Mac has gained almost 1.5%.
Windows OS kills Solid State Drives.
The industry is moving to SSD technology.
Linux and MacOS are perfectly suited to SSD and low resource hardware applications and Windows is not.
MS will either have to make some radical changes to their OS or they will be left behind.
Even now they are trying to strip down their six year old previous generation OS (XP) in a disparate attempt to get it to run on low resource hardware and it is a hack at best.
I predict that MS will continue to lose market share unless they make some radical changes to the way they operate.
0 Votes
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Vista is optimised for SSD.
ShadeTree 10th Dec 2007
I don't know where you came up with Windows OS kills SSD but it is just plain wrong! Don't plan on the switch to SSD happening any time soon either. There is currently a 10X cost factor to overcome.
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Yes and no
nucrash 10th Dec 2007
Think about most systems now and how nice it would be to have two drives. A single drive to load OS on and the other drives to store data. You could use the SSD drive for your Paging space as well and your speed would be phenomenally better.

SSD already has a niche. I would love to stripe my machines of OS drives and replace them with SSDs. I don't care about the cost at this point, speed would compensate.
0 Votes
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2 drives
mandehu@... 12th Dec 2007
My old G4 Mac *did* have 2 drives: I installed OS X on one and OS 9 on the other.
Pb was that compared to say iMac Intel it was a slug...
0 Votes
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Re: Vista is optimised for SSD.
none none 10th Dec 2007
Don't plan on the switch to SSD happening any time soon either. There is currently a 10X cost factor to overcome.

So why is Vista optimized for an architecture no one is using?





happy
0 Votes
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Hybrid drives!
ShadeTree 11th Dec 2007
Microsoft is pushing a drive which has a large flash component as well as magnetic media to speed up boots. Besides any new OS should be written for emerging technologies so as not to become irrelevent when they do gain popularity.
0 Votes
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Gotta be careful with that, though...
masonwheeler 11th Dec 2007
Remember when 3D was new? Look at all the games that did exactly that. They built on emerging, bleeding-edge 3D APIs that hadn't become standard yet, and then the market standardized and took a completely different direction, and a good number of them simply won't run on today's hardware.

Mason
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Solid-State Drives have been around ...
mwagner@... 11th Dec 2007
... since the 1980's -- on mainframes. They have always cost 10x what similarly-sized hard drives costs -- just as HD cost 10x what tape costs. Relative costs aren't really important -- it's cost-benefit that matters and SSD will become more important as people demand more portability.
0 Votes
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The bulk of the PCs that sell ...
ShadeTree 11th Dec 2007
... are low cost. While SSD might work out in the higher dollar SKUs it won't become mainstream until the cost issue is addressed.
0 Votes
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Yeah, right.
itpro_z 10th Dec 2007
I have been hearing for decades about how hard disk drives are going to be replaced by solid state devices "real soon now", and am still waiting. Hard drives keep improving in capacity, speed, and price at a rate that SSDs simply cannot match. Other than shock resistant applications, SSDs simply are not competitive.
0 Votes
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fake numbers
Linux Geek 10th Dec 2007
I'm wondering where do you get those numbers form.(could it be some M$ source?)
Linux and SunOS are far higher in my statistic.
0 Votes
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Hits on search engines
j.m.galvin 10th Dec 2007
Net Applications tracks hits, by OS and browser, on all the major search engines.

Of course there can be statistical anomalies, but it's a pretty fair way to determine wb usage - at least about as fair as anybody has been able to come up with.
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Wrong their stats
alaniane@... 11th Dec 2007
are determined by this methodology from their site http://marketshare.hitslink.com

"We use a unique methodology for collecting this data. We collect data from the browsers of site visitors to our exclusive on-demand network of live stats customers. The data is compiled from approximately 160 million visitors per month. The information published is an aggregate of the data from this network of hosted website statistics. The site unique visitor and referral information is summarized on a monthly basis.

"In addition, we classify 430+ referral sources identified as search engines. Aggregate traffic referrals from these engines are summarized and reported monthly. The statistics for search engines include both organic and sponsored referrals. The websites in our population represent dozens of countries in regions including North America, South America, Western Europe, Australia / Pacific Rim and Parts of Asia."

If you look at the methodology, they are not using search engine queries to collect their data. Their data is collected from their customer's websites. So, the population of the data is not the entire Internet, but only their client's. So, the stats are accurate for their client population only. There is no way to determine whether their client population is representative of the entire Internet population. There is nothing in their methodology that allows one to accurately extrapolate data to the entire Internet population.

It maybe indicative of the entire Internet population or it maybe skewed. Considering the site is an aspx site, it is reasonable to conclude that there is a high probability that the site is skewed in MS Windows favor.
0 Votes
+ -
Thanks for the low-down
Ole Man 11th Dec 2007
A little reasoning always lets the cat out
of the bag.

It's amazing the number of people who are so
gullible for advertising.
0 Votes
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Ubuntu 7.10 live sucks
ds4211a@... 7th Jan 2008
I realize that my subject may sound a little off the topic. So I will address that issue first. Ubuntu is the second most popular Linux distribution according to the latest DistroWatch posting. PCLinux is number one and Open SuSe is third. So Ubuntu is a popular version of Linux.

I have been using Open SuSe 10.2 for quite a while now. I like it pretty well except it takes forever to update. I do have PCLinuxOS 2007 live that I like to run sometimes. It is quite impressive and I have considered installing it. But it is based on Mandriva and Mandriva has been problematic every time I've tried to install it. It has never worked properly.

I had tried Ubuntu 6.10 and it worked fine on my PC's. So I decided to try Ubuntu 7.10. I downloaded the software, did the checksum, and burned a live CD. I did tried to run the live CD and my system hung. I ran the self-check on the CD. The CD was fine according to the self check. I also ordered a CD from Ubuntu. I also tried running the live CD on another PC. In fact it is the one that I have Suse 10.2 working just fine on.

So I did what Ubuntu suggested and contacted their forum. I noted that other people seemed to be having similar problems with the live CD. I read through all the posted replies to what seemed like a similar problem. I tried the suggestions without success. So I explained the problem that I was having and requested assistance. I also read through all the installation logs and tried to solve the problem on my own.

I received a few replies, to my post to the forum, and tried the suggested remedies without success. One person suggested that he had trouble with the lived CD. He said that he was able to run the full version. So I ordered the full version Ubuntu 7.10 DVD and a DVD called Ubuntu Ultimate 1.6 from OSDisc.com. I also ordered Open SuSe 10.3 so that I could upgrade Open Suse 10.2.

Long story short. I had exactly the same problem with the Ubuntu 7.10 and Ubuntu Ultimate 1.6 DVD's as I did with the live CD's. I have spent many hours trying to get this software to work. I still don't know what the problem is. I understand that Ubuntu is on a release schedule. I guess it doesn't matter whether or not it works as long as they meet the release date.

I had no problem upgrading to Open SuSe 10.3 on one of the PC's that Ubuntu 7.10 crashes. The problem by the way is that Ubuntu 7.10 Live will not boot into the X-Window mode. I can run it fine in the command prompt mode.

My point is that Linux will never be a main stream OS until they get their act together.

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