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Hardware 2.0

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Microsoft gives up to 1 million Xbox modders the boot from Live

By | November 11, 2009, 6:14am PST

Microsoft has announced that it is to cut off access to Xbox Live online services to players running modded Xbox consoles. This move could affect anywhere between 600,000 and 1 million players.

In a statement Microsoft said:

“All consumers should know that piracy is illegal and that modifying their Xbox 360 console to play pirated discs violates the Xbox Live terms of use, will void their warranty and result in a ban from Xbox Live.”

Modding is popular amongst gamers since it offers them the ability to do a great many things otherwise prohibited, from cheating at games, creating and using new maps and features, adding larger hard drives, and, unfortunately, pirate games. Yet despite being pretty much illegal in both the US and Europe, modding is also big business, with easy to install kits being readily available.

Microsoft hasn’t disclosed how it detects modded consoles, but according to reports that I’m getting, even having a non-standard hard drive fitted is enough to get the console banned from Xbox Live. And once a console is added to a ban list, it’s forever banished (I’ve heard from people who robustly claim to have been incorrectly banned by whatever system is in place who can’t get that ban overturned).

Note: The console continues to work as normal after a ban, it’s just that it cannot access or use any Xbox Live services or features.

Other gamers I’ve spoken to claim to have modded consoles that Microsoft is unable to detect and ban. At present I can’t confirm or deny whether this is at all possible, though I would say that if you value Xbox Live membership that you don’t mod your console.

Any readers affected by this?

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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RE: Microsoft gives up to 1 million Xbox modders the boot from Live
Mitesaerclik 19th Mar 2011
This is all getting away from the point of the discussion. Microsoft/Xbox Live provide an online entertainment service to those who subscribe. Subscribe is spelled "pay". I for one pay an annual fee to be able to play the games I love online. Modders are nothing but cheaters and thieves. They cheat via embedded software that exceeds the design parameters of the game, and they steal by ruining the gaming experience for paying Xbox Live customers who legitimately compete online. It is no more complicated than that, and trying to support the modders by lampooning Microsoft (I'm an Apple IMac owner) is subterfuge.
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Seems reasonable
croberts 11th Nov 2009
The gamers own the console and can keep playing non-network games.

Microsoft owns the network and is certainly entitled to kick out those using non-standard hardware.

I see nothing wrong with it, especially since the primary purpose of modding is to cheat and steal.

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Exactly. I could not agree more
GuidingLight Updated - 11th Nov 2009
no different then many other things.
In NASCAR, the team owns the car, NASCAR the rest.
You are perfectlly free to do with your car whatever you wish, NASCAR just will not allow you to run it at their events.

Microsoft is not stopping them from modifying their XBox's, they are just preventing the modified boxes from cheating on others.
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I agree too
djmik 11th Nov 2009
But they should at least allow people to replace the HD. This only adds value to the product and user experience and is not related ot cheating or pirating. There should be a supported path for this type of upgrade.
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Their sandbox
n0oeg 11th Nov 2009
The problem is that it is their sandbox. If you don't play by their rules, you don't play. Remember, they will SELL you a new one if something dies in your old one. There is always the replacement business to consider...
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Yeah, but,
mtgarden 11th Nov 2009
Look at what they charge for their HDs. They double the price for a standard laptop drive. Many people just want a bigger HD to store more games. They shouldn't be banned from that, except that MS doesn't get that windfall of cash.
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Gorilla in the room...
n0oeg 11th Nov 2009
I'm not saying I agree with MS on this, but just the opposite. It is YOUR hardware, and as long as there is no attempt to circumvent any of the gaming protections built in, MS should NOT be able to dictate in this instance. They are always the 800 lb. gorilla in the room, and they make sure you don't forget it.
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(nt)
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not really
semitope 12th Nov 2009
They don't just prevent you from using live.
There are other problems with the console

* Cannot install games to the HDD
* Cannot use Windows Media Centre extender
* Cannot be used to get achievements from
backups without corrupting your profile

I cant support anything that affects the
functionality of the hardware a consumer buys
without their consent. Ban them from live sure,
but don't touch the console. I believe MS
actions go further in order to capitalize on
gamers feeling the urge to replace their
console once certain features are removed
besides the online capability
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Very Cool...
Fark Updated - 11th Nov 2009
I'm glad XBL finally gave modders the boot. I can not describe to you the frustration of playing online vs. a player you know is cheating.
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Cheating stinks.
djchandler 11th Nov 2009
That part I agree with. If it's obvious, quit the game and report the violation of the network TOS.

I have no problem with MS kicking people off the network. What I have a problem with is restricting the use of hardware you own.

And what about people being labeled as cheaters/modders that in fact are not? What recourse do they have? To my way of thinking, they should be able to return an unmodded box to the place of purchase and receive a full refund. Then the retailer passes along the costs back to MS.
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A little heavy handed
djchandler 11th Nov 2009
For someone to get banned just for increased hard drive capacity seems over the top to me. There is a computer inside that box. What if all you want to do is boot an OS, say Linux?

The idea that you can run an alternative OS on a modded box is perhaps what worries MS. Could this be another way of striking out at Linux?

Read this article and it's obvious (to me) that it's more than pirating and cheating being punished and the only retribution being kicked off XBox Live.

What gives MS the right to alter hardware functionality that you bought and paid for? Banning from XBox Live is one thing. But overwriting data on your hard disk is quite another.

So if you value your XBox, beware of the latest software update from MS. If the least thing goes wrong during the update, you could end up with a $300 (or so) brick.
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Violates the EULA...
Fark 11th Nov 2009
You agree to the EULA when you get the box. Altering the HDD so you can install a different OS can lead to instability and might hurt other games experience. It also opens the community up to bad characters.

I might buy your arguement about wanting more space and not wanting to pay MS $1.00/GB instead of $.10 on the open market - but to do so to install Linux? No. Banned.

And by the way, they are NOT altering hardware functionality. You just can not connect to MS XBL servers. You can still connect to other machines in house. It will still work as a media center, etc. You just can't connect to XBL.
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EULA again? How convenient.
djchandler 11th Nov 2009
I'm sure a thirteen year-old kid reads and understands the full legal ramifications of a MS EULA-- NOT .

So you don't own your Xbox? We've moved from software licensing now to complete hardware licensing it seems. Why isn't MS honest enough to just call it a long-term lease in the first place?

This is the basic problem with these unilateral EULAs. I understand voiding any warranty, but this goes too far.

I don't own any form of game console, so I have a question. Is this restrictive EULA printed on the outside of the box? The other question is, what gives MS the right to override the GPL license of any Linux distribution residing on the hard drive. How is that any violation of their software EULA?

And how is getting your Xbox bricked not altering hardware functionality?
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Right...
gaddorm Updated - 11th Nov 2009
I'm not sure how you can even participate in
this discussion without even owning the
system. Clearly, you have no idea what you're
talking about. The system doesn't become
bricked after this update. You can still play
all your games, even the copied ones. The only
thing you cannot do is connect to Xbox Live.

I personally applaud this decision due to what
you're able to do with a modded system. Players
can cheat and do any numbers of things against
people who are playing legit without
modifications to their consoles.

This same thing applies to macs, you buy a mac
and you agree not to use the OS on non-apple
hardware, which is why Apple continually makes
people with Hackintosh's unable to boot their
system after specific updates. Has the European
Union came knocking on Apple's
door for this? No, they haven't.

I'm also sure a thirteen year old that knows
enough about how to mod their system is smart
enough to know the possible repercussions that
could occur if they get caught. Seriously, you
can't even go there.

Microsoft doesn't care about Linux, they have
less than 1% of the market share and aren't a
threat to anyone. This is about piracy and
exploiting the online multi-player experience.
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You have one little thing backwards.
djchandler 11th Nov 2009
This is more like if Apple told Mac owners that they couldn't run any software but Apple branded software on their Macs. But we all know you Mac people run Windows applications too. For a lot of people, there's no way around it. Why else would Apple include Boot Camp in the OS package?

What MS is doing is taking away the XBox equivalent of Boot Camp. A Mac guy, of all people, should understand what that means.

You are right that I know nothing of Xbox Live gaming and cheating in online games. But that's not what I'm concerned about. My argument is much more basic, and is about individual property rights.

As for whether or not the box can be bricked, I myself have killed a motherboard (or two) inadvertently with a BIOS update gone bad. All that needs to happen is a power interruption, and it's dead. Or, in another case, a misnamed update being applied. It can happen.

This is not my claim that the Xbox can be bricked. It's the claim of those having experience with modding them. Did you read and follow my link in the first post of this thread?

How is this any different than enhancing the performance of a car? Yes, it probably voids your warranty, but nobody takes your keys away from you just for doing it. We're not talking about breaking any laws here, just to be clear.
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I think Microsoft made it pretty clear they don't want their console
modified. But they aren't saying you can't use it the way you've changed
it. You just can't go online with it.

This then eliminates cheating and security issues.

It's their online network and they have the right to set-up the rules to
access. You can MOD till your hearts content as long as you limit yours to
your own personal access.
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Actually no...
Rick_K 20th Nov 2009
Microsoft also disables the hard drive. Read this article:
http://www.animenews.biz/microsoft-disables-hard-drives-on-
banned-consoles-2418/

Hard Drive installs are now disabled on the banned console. This
means any disk-based games you have will no longer play off of the
hard drive. If you attempt to play a game, it will tell you that it was
installed on a different 360 and needs to be deleted/installed again.
When you delete the game and attempt to install it, you are given a
message telling you that it is not supported. There is no way to fix
this, that functionality is simply gone from the banned 360.


So Microsoft is going far beyond protecting users from the cheaters.
They are actively harming anyone accused of having a modified box.
Even if there is a 3% error in the detection software there are a couple
thousand people who have had the functionality destroyed from their
paid for hardware. Oh wait you do not actually own the hardware, you
only license it from Microsoft. Where is the outrage from this
information?
Users should vote with their wallets. Buy a PS 3, a Wii or just game on
your pc! Send the message to Microsoft: "Your draconian measures
will not be tolerated!"
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NO, You have it backwards.
jimhas 11th Nov 2009
Microsoft does not see the Xbox as part of its computer line (which it does not have in PC's), but part of its gaming device division.

The closes thing Apple has to a gaming device is the Iphone or Ipod Touch. Apple is by far worse at being tyrannical than MS when it comes to these devices. Apple has to ok ALL apps that can be sold, and you can't use any other than Apple approved apps. That is why there is no Adobe flash on the Iphone. Adobe has tried to get the app aproved but Apple keeps telling Adobe it's not perfect enough for Apple's standards. There are many many more examples like this. And if you can't buy the program you want from the Apps store you have to jailbrake the device (similar to modding an Xbox). If you jailbreak your Iphone or Ipod touch, all support, all warranties and all services are null and void. It seems MS is just following Apple with this new Xbox rule. Really think about it. There is really is absolutely no difference.
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Your Analogy
p0figster 11th Nov 2009
This is exactly like enhancing the performance
of a car. Doing so voids your warranty and -
guess what?! If you mod your car so that it's
too powerful, the government will label your
car street illegal. Wait, so, you can BUY a
car (hardware), mod it to your hearts content
(voiding the warranty) and then have the
government tell you that you can't drive it on
regular streets any more (banned from Live).
You can still drive it on racetracks or on
private property, but the government can and
DOES decide that some cars are unsafe for roads
because of the mods you've made.

Again, the ability to connect to Live is NOT a guaranteed right that comes with buying the
Xbox. A good analogy would be to equate it
with pirating stuff on your computer and having
your ISP disconnect you. You've lost the right
to connect to the internet, but your laptop
(hardware) still works fine.
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My last sentence...
djchandler 11th Nov 2009
My last post include the statement, "We're not talking about breaking any laws here, just to be clear."

Apparently it was not a clear enough statement to evoke the response I'd hoped for.

As for the cheaters, I feel a bit sorry for them. They'll never know what it means or how it feels to really win.

I understand those playing fairly feeling cheated. But people do that, lie, steal, etc. Just don't play their game. But let's not deprive the innocent in our zeal to punish the guilty.
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I think you're mixing your metaphors.
matthew_maurice 11th Nov 2009
XBox modding is nothing like Boot Camp. If anything, it's like
Hackintoshing.

Also, for the record, you can indeed "own" something but not have a
license to use it as you wish. Ask a musician about the difference
between ownership, (i.e. publishing) rights and licensing rights. Better
yet, look into mineral rights sometime. The fact is, a EULA can say
anything the company wants, and if you agree to it you're bound by it's
terms.
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Only Perspective
bigpicture 11th Nov 2009
If you want to take that line of reasoning you really rent
everything, including your body and your life. (never own
anything) But if MS wants to sell XBoxes this was probably
not the way to do it. This smells a lot like the WGA control
that they tried to cram down everyones throat and ended
up in a class action suit. Because no matter what you put
in an EULA, there are larger human rights, consumer and
public interests laws that trump that. MS should
understand some more about these things now that the EU
has educated them. So they better not have disabled any
legitimate users, or here we come again.
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If you mod chip and get on Xbox Live, you're violating the EULA for Xbox Live. You're not "licensing" the hardware, nor is your system being "bricked" to a state of non-functionality.

You can still play your games, you can still LAN, you can still use media center.. but you can't do anything with XBL, ever.

That's not the same as bricking a device. You make it sound like the update makes the system fry itself.

As for Linux, if you want to put it on the drive, fine. But, again, that's unauthorized use if you even so much as connect to XBL and can/will face a ban from XBox Live. Guess what - your Linux would still work, your games would still work.. but you won't be multiplayer gaming over Live ever again.

And that's fine by me.
You guys are missing the point all around.

I'm not making the claim that the box can be bricked, but I am taking the word of those intimately involved in modding the XBox.

What I'm talking about is individual property rights. Furthermore, how is increasing hard drive capacity allow for cheating? I don't think it does.

As for getting banned just for having a dual boot system with Linux, that again infringes on individual property rights. MS should have to be able to prove that you are cheating to ban you from the network. They're taking the easy route, based upon information gleaned from your XBox, to ban people whether that information is accurate or not, and whether the people banned are actually cheating or not.

Yes, cheaters should be banned, but not at the expense of individual liberty and property rights.
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doesn't mention an update to the xbox
john-whorfin 11th Nov 2009
Nowhere does the article state that MS is updating the xbox console, only that modded consoles will be blocked from accessing xbox live. Data is sent to the xbox live servers at login. If the server queries the hardware at that time it can validate the configuration is unmodified without writing to it, so absolutely no chance it will brick the console.

No property rights are in question here. The xbox live network is open to all unmodified xbox consoles. If the owner of the console chooses to modify it they are also making the choice not to use the network. MS is simply enforcing the terms of access to the network.

Try swapping the motherboard on an intel based mac with one that Apple does not sell, i'm pretty sure OSX will refuse to run. Like 'em or not, them's the rules.
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Now the question is.
Rick_K 11th Nov 2009
Do you get a refund? Remember people have to pay for access to
xbox live. If the hard drive fails and is replaced by the user (other than
bending over and paying Microsoft outrageous prices). They will be
banned. Where is the outrage here? If someone purchased the
hardware and the live subscription, they have paid for the right to use
it. Simply not using an overpriced hard drive, is not a reason to be
banned from a service you have paid for. I can put a 500GB drive in
my PS 3 without incident, or being banned from the Playstation
Network.

Maybe this is a good case for an Anti-trust trial? Sounds like Microsoft
is abusing their monopoly in the online xbox market. Being that
Microsoft controls 100% of the market in question, this is abuse.

Or are there different rules? People are outraged about Apple suing
Crapstar for violations of Apple's EULA , Copyright, and DMCA
violations. But these same people support Microsoft for banning other
based on Hard Drive size? Nice double standard there. If Apple should
be forced to support OS X on unauthorized hardware Microsoft should
be forced to support xbox users with larger Hard Drives.
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No property right issues here
oncall 11th Nov 2009
It's really one of "support". This is nothing unique to the XBOX, Microsoft, Apple, Nintendo, Sony, just about everybody does this. You buy the hardware/software combo box (in this case an xbox) and you are free to modify it as you see fit. However, the cost of that is losing the warranty and customer support, or in this case your xbox access to Microsofts network.

And why would Microsoft allow a modded xbox on their network? They have no idea what's on the xbox other than it's no longer meeting factory specs. What, are they going to send someone out to your house to do a personal inspection? Nope. Ban them. Yes, it's the easy route, it's the practical route. Protect their honest paying customers, that's what they should do. If they don't, the honest ones will move on leaving only the cheats. It happens, ever play Unreal tournament and see what happens to a server at the mere mention that someone may be using a mod. That's right, the admin perma-bans them or the game ends as everyone bails.
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"Ban-a-Rama
robo8a 11th Nov 2009
i couldn't agree with you more on protecting the honest customer. Isn't that who is supposed to be looked after, the satisfaction of the customer.
I have been on the XBOX servers and found cheaters and modified games but do you say to those who are constantly ripped off over and over again. digging into their wallets for $60 games up to $70 and finding out that their XBOX is good till next chrstmas, never mind the free shipping and packing.
What happened to the quality in work.
So you mean to tell me that they can send a man to the moon but they cant make a descent console without charging for every little thing, ( sorry for the old moon cliche ), but seriouly.
Granted there are risks to MODing your box, and that risk is on behalf of the owner of the console , but when you have someone who jut MODs for gaming purposes to get games at cheaper prices the way they should be then is that not justice for the many of customers who saw it fit to get a little redemption from being tossed around over and over back and forth by a company who supposedly " has it together" .
I dont know who likes dishing out $300 to $400 on garbage that dont last but if anyone does i'll send you my address and you can send me your money. I'll be sure to send anyone garbage.
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No, they shouldn't
rapson 11th Nov 2009
"MS should have to be able to prove that you are cheating to ban you from the network."

Microsoft should have to do no such thing. Microsoft owns the network, and as such should be able to ban someone for wearing brown shoes if it wants to. You're confusing Microsoft's Live network with some kind of public-access network.

Carl Rapson
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shouldn't they?
robo8a 11th Nov 2009
Come on man, "brown shoes" seriously.

I think we all understand the extent of our mighty MS amd its power to do whatever the egg they want, but where do you draw the line.
I mean do you say ...
"Ooops , sorry, didnt mean to ban you honest customers in our trigger happy assault on the dishonest ones. Oh, by the way here's a 3 month subscription to LIVE, whenever you fork up another $300 hundred to buy another one"....

How do those honest ones get compensated for that?

I mean its one thing to have a power trip but to trip on your own power and not have any proof of whats really going on with an individual console, GARBAGE!!!!!!!

of course it's not a public access network. who pays $60 to play on a public-acces network , but then again who pays $300 for a console that eventually turns into that brick someone else mentioned.

Here's how to make money. MS announces that if you bring your MODed console in you can get $15 dollars to your next purchase of a new XBOX.... more money to dish on and more promises to wish on......here's an even better idea... raise the cost of LIVE to $100 a year or just come up with a better solution on how to fight the cheaters and game modders without getting innocent player in the crossfire.

I think we all know it can be done....i mean come on. They figured out how to read an individual console how can they not figure out how to read the ones that have nothing done to them.

THEY CAN'T......
and with cristmas around the corner MS found another way to pocket it all in the end....way to go MS for a job well done......

I think we all know what's gonna be on all out christmas lists this year, another record sale for MS XBOX 360.
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It's difficult for me to understand how so many responding in this thread are ready to let the mighty corporation usurp their individual property rights. And for what? To play games? Once you start accepting policies like this, where do we draw the line?

Consumers have been in need of protection from those who would take unfair advantage since the very beginnings of commerce. What I've tried to point out is that some innocents have been lumped in with the cheaters. We don't allow that kind of unilateral action in our legal system. Each case needs to stand on its own.

We even have one in this thread justifying one corporations bad behavior on the basis of the acceptance of another corporations bad behavior. It's this kind of logic that allows bullies to go on being bullies. The idea that some are willing to abide treatment like that from someone taking their money is appalling.

This situation could evolve to a point where the violation of individual rights is egregious just by its shear scale to involve the legal system. what will happen is some lawyer will get a class action suit going, and those wronged in this situation will eventually get a pittance of a percentage of what they may ethically be entitled to.

As for banning people on a whimsical notion, be it brown shoes or whatever, I stand by what I stated before. They, MS, should have to prove you have modded or cheated before banning you from something that is ostensibly paid for by the purchase of an XBox console. If MS can't meet that burden of proof, you are legally entitled to some relief. They have unlawfully deprived you of something you paid for. Like I said, it will become a class action suit, some lawyers will make their money, and those wronged will only get a fraction of their due.

I do understand why those who have been cheated in the gaming experience are applauding this action. But what if you were one of those banned without cause?

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cannot agree with this
eswarjj 11th Nov 2009
only if it involves a functional change (change to the behaviour of the console s/w) should it even be allowed in the EULA ... you are confusing warranty with legality
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Great news for honest gamers
gh005t 11th Nov 2009
Nothing is more annoying with online play than running into a player or groups of players cheating. Way to go Microsoft for taking action on this!

I hope that figure is overstated. 600,000 to 1 million consoles taken off of XBOX Live seems like a lot.

The fact that Microsoft is willing to forgo those subscription fees is also admirable and shows their commitment to honest gamers.
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Agree, but...
njoho 11th Nov 2009
The fact that Microsoft is willing to forgo those subscription fees is also admirable and shows their commitment to honest gamers.

It's the specific XBox that's barred from XBL, not the user account. I wonder how many of those owning a barred XBox will purchase another, and refrain from cheating this time.

Needless to say, expect a vocal minority to bore us all senseless with stories about how badly they have been treated.
Yes, and purchasing another xbox and not cheating is fine by me as well.

Oh yeah, I'm sure many will really be upset. Some will claim ignorance
too. But, as noted in other threads, the machines will still play games -
just not XBOX LIVE multiplayer - so if they want multiplayer they'll have
to fork out some cash.

Even with all the bad stories I don't think Microsoft is going to bend on
their decision. . .
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Beware of used Xboxes on eBay.
matthew_maurice 11th Nov 2009
If it's the Xbox itself which gets banned, I'd expect that some buyers of
used, modded Xboxes on the secondary markets will get some nasty
surprises when they try to put it on XBL.
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the vocal minority
The Star King 12th Nov 2009
"Needless to say, expect a vocal minority to bore us all senseless with stories about how badly they have been treated."

If they genuinely have been badly treated they deserve to be heard. In particular if they get banned without modifying their xbox in any way. False positives are inevitable.
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yes
agetergeter 11th Nov 2009
I agree wholeheartedly happy
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The server admin is god
{DvT}Hex 11th Nov 2009
I have run game servers for Unreal, Unreal Tournament, UT2003, UT2004, and UT3 since 2000. As such I am as arbitrary and capricious as any god. It's my server, I pay for it, and I decide who, what, how, and why for anyone and everything on it. You don't like it, tough: live with it or run your own server. My users are allowed and encouraged to make suggestions, but once I have made a decision regarding a suggestion it is "live with it or go away." If you are annoying enough in complaining further about it, I break out my handy-dandy BAN button.

"But M$ charges us to use XBL." So what? I don't charge to use my server, but if I did, that would change absolutely nothing. The fee is just one more policy.

You don't like the way M$ runs their XBox servers? Don't use them; start your own -- continue paying them, or not, your choice.

You bought your XBox; my users bought their computers. I don't interfer with how my users employ their computers when they are not on my server and it says here that M$ does the same.
The only mod many people make to the XBOX is to install a larger hard drive and they will get banned as "pirates" for that?!? Does this mean that all of those people who install larger hard drives in a Dell or HP PC are also "pirates?" What about those of us who upgrade our netbooks? It seems Microsoft is heading down the same path as the RIAA by tossing an atom bomb on a playground in order to target a few bad children. Well, this will definitely give everyone one more reason to despise Microsoft. They seem to care very little about their image anymore. It's all about $$$ for them now. What a bunch of A-holes.
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You have it all wrong
NonZealot Updated - 11th Nov 2009
The only mod many people make to the XBOX is to install a larger hard drive and they will get banned as "pirates" for that?!?

The mod that allows for larger hard drives is the exact same mod that allows you to cheat in online games. MS isn't banning you for increasing your hard drive, they are banning you for installing a mod that allows you to cheat. If you've ever played online games on the PC with cheaters, you'll know that it makes the experience miserable for all the non cheaters.

It seems Microsoft is heading down the same path as the RIAA by tossing an atom bomb on a playground in order to target a few bad children.

Not at all. While I will argue that music and video piracy indirectly hurts all of us, there is no doubt that cheaters on XBox Live directly hurt all of us. I want MS to ban these people and so do all the non cheaters out there.

It's all about $$$ for them now.

Maybe but the vast majority find that this move also makes our experience better so it's win-win-lose. MS wins. Non cheaters win. Cheaters lose. Sounds perfect!
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please explain
MAKsystems 11th Nov 2009
I have an XBox (OK, the kids have one I paid for).

Can you explain how upgrading the hard drive, is the same as cheating? Is there a software hack required to make the new drive functional?

Seems to me a hard drive replacement is wholly different than hacking a console to cheat during game play.
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It's because they cannot tell
oncall 11th Nov 2009
All they know is that your xbox no longer meets factory specs. Yes, maybe you are just using it for honest purposes, but how will they know for sure? They won't. Anything they did to try to "detect" cheaters would be quickly hacked, so you make it strict "Anything fishy looking and your gone!" They must do their best to protect the honest gamers who are paying for the priveledge, and they are making the rules of the game clear.
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IT is a scam
Rick_K 11th Nov 2009
Microsoft is now punishing users for not paying $150 plus for a
120GB hard drive.. Now considering a 120 GB drive typically cost $55
that's a difference of $95. If it was any other company, these fools
would be having a field day; but since it is Microsoft, it is suddenly
okay? If Sony did this We would be seeing numerous posts on "How
evils Sony is", or "Sony is trying to screw the consumer!!!" Here's a
good one for you, I personally installed a 250 GB hard drive for less
than $60. Sony has not banned me from the Playstation Network. So if
someone put a larger hard drive in their xbox, they would have to pay
another $300 just to use the online account they have already paid
for? Well only the truly stupid would pay that. The smart people would
dump the xbox altogether, and buy a PS 3. Microsoft is showing they
are only interested in screwing the customer, so screw them. Vote
against this attempt at removing fair use rights.
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I'd be surprised...
The Star King 12th Nov 2009
...if Sony didn't follow suit. Sony, Ninendo etc have been just as draconian about piracy as MS . (Eg, there was the Sony rootkit debacle etc)

"I personally installed a 250 GB hard drive for less than $60"

If it's not Sony branded, you might find yourself locked out in the future, eg next firmware upgrade... Check the EULA, Sony almost certainly reserves the right to do this. MS is not alone in doing this sort of thing.

Sony, Nintendo et al have ALWAYS prevented users using generic equipment to avoid piracy. The half-sized disks used in the Nintendo Gamecube are an example. They were chosen to be hard to pirate but this tech artifically increased the price of games. What MS is doing is the same: preventing users to buying generic equipment (in this case hard disks) to avoid piracy.
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Only one small problem with that.
Rick_K 20th Nov 2009
Sony allows you to change out the hard drive. Sony only suggests that
you use a 4500 R.P.M. 2.5" SATA drive. There is no requirement that
you pay three times the value of said drive and limits drive sizes to
120 GB. If I chose to, I could install a 500 GB, 2.5" 4500 R.P.M. drive
using the instructions in the user manual. They cannot say later "Oh
you cannot do that", or the lawsuits would start flying. Here are the
notes:

The HDD must be a 2.5? internal Serial ATA HDD. Parallel ATA is not
supported.

Sony Computer Entertainment America, Inc. (SCEA) does not have any
information regarding specific compatibility or recommendations for
hard disk drives for the PlayStation 3 system. Proper operation is not
guaranteed for all models.

Upgrading the HDD will not void the warranty, however, the consumer
takes full responsibility when upgrading the HDD.

To back up the data on the HDD, you may use the back up utility on
the PlayStation 3.

If you need replacement screws for the hard drive, please click here
for more information.

http://playstation.custhelp.com/cgi-
bin/playstation.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?
p_faqid=362&p_created=1193251723&p_sid=-bvG-
tNj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9
zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9NzgsNzgmcF9wcm9
kcz0mcF9jYXRzPTAmcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF9wYWdlPTEmcF9zZWFyY2hf
dGV4dD1IYXJkIGRyaXZl&p_li=&p_topview=1
And for whatever reason this ban can not be undone. Cheaters need to be spanked hard, often, and eternally, no doubt about that. But permanently flushing some babies with the poo water is irresponsible. There needs to be recourse if a person is incorrectly banned.

Even the WGA false positives have an out. Altho it does mean, you must grovel at the feet of the might M$.
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This is why I pay for Xbox Live
Unix Pimp 11th Nov 2009
One of the main reasons I do not complain about the monthly fees on XBL is because Microsoft bans cheaters and other malcontents.

There is nothing worse than playing an online game and a cheater joins the game and ruins it for everyone else. Same thing goes for the putz who screams into the microphone over and over, or just plays like an overall jerk.

I just add them to my avoid list, and I never see them again.

The 12 month subscription is $50, and if you know where to shop, you can get a year subscription card for $39.99. That is $3.34 a month, and well worth it in my book.
If you really want to know the truth. The servers will probably run better with these people gone. As far as microsoft being money hungry last i checked we were still in America where capitalism rules the day.....duhhhh
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you don't mode "Your console"?
rarsa Updated - 11th Nov 2009
I guess you meant "Microsoft's console".

Apparently they are not selling the console, just licensing. They think they can tell you what you can and cannot do with it.

Of course people shouldn't do illegal things (Although some illegal things shouldn't be illegal).

The point is that they will be disabling access for people that aren't doing anything illegal. The "potential" of being illegal is not in itself illegal.

It's the equivalent of shooting at the crowd because some of them are provocateurs.
This is all getting away from the point of the discussion. Microsoft/Xbox Live provide an online entertainment service to those who subscribe. Subscribe is spelled "pay". I for one pay an annual fee to be able to play the games I love online. Modders are nothing but cheaters and thieves. They cheat via embedded software that exceeds the design parameters of the game, and they steal by ruining the gaming experience for paying Xbox Live customers who legitimately compete online. It is no more complicated than that, and trying to support the modders by lampooning Microsoft (I'm an Apple IMac owner) is subterfuge.

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