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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Microsoft will be happy to hear that Google is to keep Android free

By | November 8, 2011, 4:42am PST

Summary: Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer: ’Android has a patent fee. It’s not like Android’s free. You do have to license patents.’

During a tour of South Korea, Google’s Executive Chairman Eric Schmidt said the company is committed to offering the Android operating system for free to handset partners. Microsoft will sure appreciate that.

While Google makes nothing from Android directly, it makes a lot of money, about $2.5 billion a year, from pushing ads to Android-enabled devices. And that $2.5 billion is expected to double over the next 12 months, so it’s in Google’s interest to keep Android free for handset partners.

But Google isn’t the only company making money from Android. Microsoft is making money from Android too. The Redmond giant has entered into numerous patent licensing agreements with Android handset makers and is rumored to be pulling in some $3 to $6 per Android device sold. Last year Android was worth $444 million to Microsoft, and this number is set to grow as more patent deals are signed and more Android devices are sold. It’s not big money, but it’s still a significant cash cow for Microsoft that needs little in the way of care and feeding. Someone else needs to do the selling, Microsoft jsut sits back and waits for the royalty checks to roll in.

Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer takes a different view of Google on the subject of Android being free:

’Android has a patent fee. It’s not like Android’s free. You do have to license patents.’

And Microsoft has every intention of collecting on these patents. Next in its sights is Chinese telecoms giant Huawei.

So, it’s not just going to be handset makers that are happy to hear that Google is committed to keeping Android free, Microsoft is also pleased to hear that.

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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RE: Microsoft will be happy to hear that Google is to keep Android free
dejoe Updated - 10th Nov
Huh!!! This article is useless. This never says why microsoft will be happy. Gives some figures and quotes; and says that microsoft will be happy. Nothing new in here.

You could have as well have finished it with - "Hence Microsoft likes blue color"
You know I think Microsoft will be happier if Google charges for Android . It will be much easier suing Google directly than going around knocking on everyone else's door ,collecting licence fees.
@g@...
Notice that they're not suing anyone yet. They are strongarming people into licensing with the threat of suing, although I think in a lot of cases, it's been an arrangement that saw some marketing money flow to the company to market/support Windows Phones, too. Microsoft would not be interested in suing Google because Google has enough money that they wouldn't need to make a deal, while the equipment manufacturers will not put up a fight. BTW, it's easy to give away for free what cost you only an incremental effort to develop because you could use what others did for you. And it's by no means unreasonable for those parties to ask for compensation for their work.
@WebSiteManager: So what did MS do for Google?
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Software patents are a crock
symbolset 8th Nov
Microsoft should be ashamed of themselves.
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Google should be ashamed of themselves
William Farrell 8th Nov
@symbolset
stealing other's patents to use in their own software, not splitting the profits with the IP owners.
@William Farrell :: what patents??? MS seem too scared to publish which ones are affected.
@deaf_e_kate
People call Apple fans blind because even though Apple told you exactly what they sold and for what price, because people thought there were better value for the money. I wonder what you call someone like William Farrell who is willing to accuse other of "stealing" due to violations of patents no one can name.
full-well what those violated patents are. You may not know what they are, but, if you were to manufacture your own smartphone and sell it to others using Android, Microsoft would let you know exactly what the patents are that you violated.
@William Farrell: Infringement is by definition not theft. Also, I et it's mostly crap patents like the FAT patent (how to store filenames longer than 8:3, as if there's any value in Microsoft's solution beyond having one standard method).
adornoe@... "You can be sure that, Google and the smartphone makers know full-well what those violated patents are."

No, they don't. Nobody knows outside Microsoft. And they make people sign confidentiality agreements before they will even discuss the issue. Because if anybody knows, why don't they say so? It's in nobody's interest (except Microsoft's) to keep those patents secret.

Because, you see, that's not how patents are supposed to work--you only get the patent after you agree to publish the details of the invention. How is it you can get to have your cake and eat it too--you get to enjoy the patent monopoly, yet nobody gets to find out exactly what it is you've got the monopoly on?
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Don't be silly!
adornoe@... 8th Nov
Nobody is going to be paying millions of dollars, maybe tens of millions of dollars, to Microsoft if they didn't understand that Microsoft did, in fact, have real patents that were being violated. Agreements to pay don't just happen as blackmail or threats. There are real grounds for those multi-million dollar lawsuits. Paying way over $500 million dollars in patent fees that are not warranted, is a lot more expensive than paying a "few" million dollars to lawyers to battle Microsoft. If those companies that are paying the "fees" to Microsoft were not in violation of the patents, then I'm pretty sure that, they would have fought Microsoft in court and won. If Microsoft could just make a threat about an unknown patent, then they could get away with doing that much more often, and would end up getting many billions and not just millions. In fact, the threat of lawsuits could be used by many other large corporations in order to extract payments, if they knew that, just the threats would bring them riches. In fact, those kind of threats could be used to make some companies go out of business.

Your argument is silly and asinine.
adornoe@... "Nobody is going to be paying millions of dollars, maybe tens of millions of dollars, to Microsoft if they didn't understand that Microsoft did, in fact, have real patents that were being violated."

Nobody has agreed to pay "millions of dollars, maybe tens of milions of dollars, to Microsoft". All the out-of-court patent settlements so far have been for relatively small amounts, say 6-7 figures at most. Any more than that, and it becomes worthwhile for the picked-on company to push back, and call Microsoft's bluff to take it to court.

Which some are already doing.
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and, when Microsoft is making more than $500 million dollars a year on fees from Android patent violations, the amounts to each "violator' are not trivial. Even if the figures were to be in the 6 figure range, that money is not trivial. Besides, what's trivial now could grow to "major", when a manufacturer that uses Android grows in the number of device deliveries.
@adornoe@... $500 million a year is peanuts to a company the size of Microsoft. Particularly when you add on the business they're losing by putting off customers with their protection-racket tactics.

And in case you haven't been keeping up with the news, Barnes & Noble is calling Microsoft's bluff: show us the patents, or shut up.
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Why are we doing this?
Robert Hahn 8th Nov
Microsoft shareholders should ask whether the company is making anywhere near the money on Windows Phone that it's pulling in via these Android licensing fees. As you note, it costs Microsoft next to nothing to acquire these fees... certainly nothing like the money being spent on Windows Phone, including the billion spent to entice Nokia into the WP camp.
Not from their cut of the app store? Not from the Bing search share WP pushes. Not from the for pay services they offer on it? They have tons of ways to monetize WP. They woundnt be spending money on building and marketing it without plenty of ways to ensure very high margins. I'm sure they plan to make far more per month off each WP than they're getting as a one time payment for android.
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Fandango
Robert Hahn 8th Nov
I'm sure they plan to make far more per month off each WPDo let us know when something starts to come of those plans. They've been out there for a year and all we've seen is a slow drop in market share. Success is always right around the corner: Tango, Mango, Gringo, Bingo.
@Robert Hahn
Windows Phone is not a single product. It's an important part of an ecosystem. The ecosystem makes them boatloads, and WP will stay.
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Android has a patent fee...
John L. Ries 8th Nov
...because Steve Ballmer say it does. Which patents are involved is a confidential trade secret (otherwise, Google might figure out how to work around the patents).
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That's silly...
adornoe@... 8th Nov
Microsoft collects more than $500 million a year from patent fees against Android, and you believe that, Google and the smartphone makers are just willingly going to be giving Microsoft all that money without investigating what the violations are?

If things were as simple as that, what would stop other large corporations from making similar claims against Android, and collecting patent fees, no questions asked.
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Is it?
John L. Ries 8th Nov
@adornoe@...
Then why doesn't MS disclose the allegedly violated patents?
the patents to disclose the reasons that they're paying Microsoft? There's nothing stopping them from disclosing the violations and the reasons that they're paying Microsoft. Why is Microsoft the only bad guy in this situation? There are at least two sides to the argument, and if there is an innocent party having to pay up for doing nothing wrong, then the whole world would have found out by now, with a real court battle to stop Microsoft. Microsoft has lost patent wars in court already, but in the case of Android, it appears that they're collecting those patent fees because there are companies who know for sure that they violated MS's patents.
@adornoe@...
No we can't ask these supposed violators because MS forced them to sign an NDA. The only appearance I can make out of this is that MS has something to hide. The $500 M you came up with is completely speculative. Plus it could be the case of MS telling them "Ok, you might not violate these patents on android, but do you really want us to go through 20k vaguely worded patents to find some you do in fact violate (that may or may not have anything to do with android)."
argument, or even a good defense.

The $500 million is a figure which has been mentioned, in many blogs, and it's something that I'm sure can be found in the quarterly reports that MS puts out.

Like I said, that's a huge amount of money, and many large corporations would be happy to have that amount alone as their total profits.

But, if the violations are being protected via NDAs, then it's just a matter of the "defendants" pooling a few of their lawyers together and going in as a group against MS to stop them and to get the IP disclosed in public, like in an open courtroom.
If I were MS and Android makers have to spend up to 6$/unit for patent fees I would tell them:

"Okay boys, this is the deal.. either you pay up 6/unit sold OR we are content on 3/unit for as long as you also take on and sell Windows Phone 7 devices alongside your android devices or free if you ditch Android and exclusivly sell WP7 phones.
and they have willingly accepted the Android patent fees. Why lower the cost when Microsoft doesn't have to?
@adornoe@...
Perhaps they make WP7 devices exactly because of the reason DJK2 suggested. Again, everything is speculative because MS won't even negotiate before forcing OEMs to sign NDAs.
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anono: Bologney!
adornoe@... Updated - 9th Nov
The companies making WP7 phones are not being "forced" into doing so, and, it's just a good business decision about trying to get into a distribution which might be, in the end, bigger than Android smartphones and/or iPhones.

When it comes to the NDAs, those agreements don't mean that the patent violators don't know what patents were violated. If they didn't get to see the patents, then they'd still be doing battle against MS. Not disclosing the details to the general public doesn't mean that the patents are dubious or not worthy of being paid for.
so google does directly make money straight from oems, not just off of ad sales.
@Johnny Vegas
If lack of Google services make the devices crippled then wow. Google services must be really valuable.
So Google found a way to make money and give Android for free. What Microsoft also leaves out is that developers can make money running ads in their apps without having to charge for them either. This model obviously bothers Microsoft because they like to make money selling their OS.
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more proof
winddrift03 8th Nov
that software patents are out of control. most are based on things that are so obvious that they should not be allowed patents.
If Microsoft wants to collect patent fees, then they need to do something to support the product. When are Motorola generated Android addons and enhancements coming?
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I think this still highlights just how ridiculous tech patents can be. You can patent a concept without one lick of code to support it and then turn around and beat people over the head for money when they actually did the grunt work.
@ldo17, @deaf_e_kate, et al.
Let's be clear about the difference between patent law and civil/corporate law. The agreements regarding the patents are not patent law per se. Moreover, It is normal to require a confidentiality agreement covering the disposition of any contract negotiation that might have material impact on any of the parties' business operations. I'm a former MS employee who has also worked at many other tech companies. I can tell you that this is SOP for all contracts at all major companies, not just MS. Additionally, every employee has to sign confidentiality agreements when joining and exiting the company that cover all aspects of their tenure. This is just good business.

In regards to the comment about the patent info not being available, I would refer everyone to the US Patent and Trademark office at uspto.gov where you can find all the patents that are in play here with a little searching.
@SirCodesaLot
"I would refer everyone to the US Patent and Trademark office at uspto.gov where you can find all the patents that are in play here with a little searching."

Wow! The other MS fanboy who suggested that I should open up my own factory might have suggested an easier way to find this info. If it's just a little searching then why don't you just post the exact patents that are being violated
"pushing ads to Android-enabled devices"? First ad I see the thing goes into the drawer. Have not seen one yet but it irks me that if a person is already paying for a service, they are then assailed by annoying advertisements using the very service they are paying for. Hopefully there will be an ani-ad app.
Huh!!! This article is useless. This never says why microsoft will be happy. Gives some figures and quotes; and says that microsoft will be happy. Nothing new in here.

You could have as well have finished it with - "Hence Microsoft likes blue color"

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