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Hardware 2.0

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Mozilla admits that Firefox EULA is flawed

By | September 16, 2008, 12:02pm PDT

Summary: Following the concerns expressed by the Ubuntu community over the Firefox EULA, Mitchell Baker, Chairperson of Mozilla, has admitted that there may be no need for the browser to have an EULA and an open source license.

Following the concerns expressed by the Ubuntu community over the Firefox EULA, Mitchell Baker, Chairperson of Mozilla, has admitted that there may be no need for the browser to have an EULA and an open source license.

“Initially when we first shipped Firefox the idea of shipping Firefox under a binary source code license seemed odd so we created a EULA and we’re now coming to the conclusion that is not necessary,” said Baker. “So the license agreement that we’ve been working on will now say, ‘dear end user you’re using FOSS software and here are the open source licenses to look at if you’d like too and enjoy them.”

So, what’s the alternative? It seems that Baker isn’t too sure:

“There is a need for something, something to explain the license I’m not sure I would call it a EULA because that has a meaning to many people of adding restrictions to software and we won’t be doing that,” Baker said. “We’ll be having a license agreement much as Red Hat has a license agreement that says the software is available under the GPL and don’t use our trademarks etcetera. So we’ll have a license agreement but we won’t think of it as a EULA.”

Good to hear that Mozilla are listening to the concerns of the open source community.

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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just FLOSS
Mitch 74 21st Sep 2008
Free/Libre Open Source Software softwares, or FLOSS solutions? Let's not forget about recursive acronyms (like GNU's Not Unix) and Free as in Speech, not Beer - and then the Free Beer...

Don't get your pocket protector in a bind, this part ain't no exact science.
0 Votes
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Competing with Chrome
DavidGerard Updated - 16th Sep 2008
This is Mozilla trying to compete with Google for evil ;-p

But really, they have good reason to lock things down - "community builds" that were called "Firefox" and were within the rules, but happened to be loaded with spyware - but have to not overdo it.

I'm appalled they've lost touch with the Linux world so badly. They used to be thoroughly in tune with it. They've been making money from Google on Windows too long.
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Simple solution to the problem ...
MisterMiester Updated - 16th Sep 2008
Place an extra button on the "About Mozilla Firefox" drop down box that says "License" just like many other open source apps have done. Problem solved. happy
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That would be about:license
seanferd 17th Sep 2008
it is actually available, you can type straight into the address bar. Shows up in the menu if you use Mr. Tech Local Install or (wait for it) Mr. Tech's about:about.
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The Wild West
pjotr123 16th Sep 2008
Many Linux users have the pioneer spirit, and as such they are extremely sensitive to everything that may possibly constrain their freedom.

There aren't many laws in the digital Wild West.... because the Westerners would revolt. You simply can't treat a pioneer like you would a child in school. happy
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Ignore the rules. Unfortunately, the civilized world of computing will catch up with even the pioneers. The only way to avoid licenses that you don't like is to create your computing world from scratch. And even then you may have to live with the licenses imparted by the creators of CPU's, GPU's, DMA controllers, Interrupt controllers, and so on.

Face it, the only way to true, unrestricted freedom is that freedom provided by one's own mind. Once you have to step out and depend upon others for anything, restrictions start to become visible.

Has the Firefox EULA actually hampered anyone's ability to use Firefox? I suspect no more so than the GPL has hampered the growth and use of Linux.
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I dropped a note to Mozilla yesterday
djchandler 16th Sep 2008
And expressed that it would be most unfortunate if their work were to be distributed anyway without notice or credit with Ubuntu similar to what has happened with Debian.

While some individuals may posses more gravitas, it's the sum of all of us that truly makes the difference.

I want to thank Adrian for making me and others who care about this aware of this issue. We appreciate your efforts.
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Great, it sounds like they've realized the problem and offered a sensible solution.
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Call me a grammar Nazi, but...
ReadWryt (error) 17th Sep 2008
???So the license agreement that we???ve been working on will now say, ???dear end user you???re using FOSS software and here are the open source licenses to look at if you???d like too and enjoy them.???

...Um, doesn't the second "S" in "FOSS" stand for "Software"? `dear end user, you're using Free Open Source Software Software...? This is a statement in a LEGAL document??
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grammar nazi .....
Mike.Moller@... 17th Sep 2008
yes, I rather think I will - much of the industry has been referring to "IBM machines" for over 40 years
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Actually, that's a proper name
seanferd 17th Sep 2008
so while it sounds redundant (like ATM machine), it isn't really.

Good point, though.
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Actually thats a proper grammar n***
GeoffDuke 18th Sep 2008
ATM Machine, FOSS Software, EPS System, GPS Satellite etc and so on.... are examples of tautology in the same way as 'aromatic aroma' contains superfluous reindorsement or doubling up of the same information. Blogs are not really subject to editing in the same way speech is not; once something has been said it is difficult to retract it without appearing odd in some way. This taken into consideration, why does a simple piece of information in a blog attract such comments from self appointed 'judge and jury' -esque purists? The suggested answer is 'NTGOMS' Syndrome - Need To Get Out More Syndrome)...
These words are not and should not be considered to be of malicious intent, but as a not-so-subtle guide, to try and prevent future similar occurrances. Do not take this seriously!
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IBM?
drobinow 18th Sep 2008
Not the same. IBM sells many products that are not machines. FOSS is all software.
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just FLOSS
Mitch 74 21st Sep 2008
Free/Libre Open Source Software softwares, or FLOSS solutions? Let's not forget about recursive acronyms (like GNU's Not Unix) and Free as in Speech, not Beer - and then the Free Beer...

Don't get your pocket protector in a bind, this part ain't no exact science.
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Grammar what?
lockm001 17th Sep 2008
"...if you'd like TOO..."
How about, "like to..."
Or 3?
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The problem is...
chaiguy1337 17th Sep 2008
...that we keep making acronyms as concrete, subject-
included adjectives, rather than keeping them abstract
enough to use for other things. (And we call ourselves
computer scientists!)

You think we'd learn to stop doing that already. :P
Just make it "FOS" for "free, open source" and then we
can say FOS software to our heart's content. Or for
that matter FOS hardware, or FOS breakfast cereal!
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Free Open Sauce
Mahegan 17th Sep 2008
Isn't that the ketchup in the greasy spoon?
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Its the Pizza Pie Effect
davagain 17th Sep 2008
Technically, pizza means pie (in Italian). Therefore, pizza pie is technically redundant. However, that's just accepted usage, so those of us who care (I among them) just have to deal with it. That goes, too, for software software.
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is there something i'm missing here...?
monkey_poop 18th Sep 2008
"you're using Free Open Source Software Software...?"

why two softwares?

FOSS = Free Open S ource Software

What your saying is actually FOSSS...
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What a tightass you are
tbcass 18th Sep 2008
Don't you have anything better to worry about?
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My only complaint is no matter what I do 3.01 keeps crashing...
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Flawed, or is that "Floored"
Mahegan 17th Sep 2008
as in crashing to...
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Why?
tbcass 18th Sep 2008
I haven't had 3.01 crash on me yet. You must have a system or software compatibility problem as I don't believe it's a problem inherent with Firefox.
0 Votes
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I've not seen any crashing problems at all with 3.01 but certain Flash ads are notorious for causing problems.
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I've seen Flash take down earlier Firefox versions. In some of those cases, the error message pointed to Flash. On my home computers, I use NoScript which blocks Flash, Java, SilverLight, and other plugins by default. If I need any of them, I just enable them (usually temporarily unless it's a site I use all the time).
0 Votes
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Quite likely.

Very simple solution: Trash the Flash Use No Script and Ad Blocker Plus. This site is so much nicer without all of the annoying crap.
0 Votes
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What the hell is a EULA? Why don't you define acronyms when you talk about them so us abnormals can understand what the heck you're talking about? This article means absolutely nothing to me...sorry. I just don't understand it. Should I be concerned? Is my computer going to get invaded by the Taliban or AlQueda or something because of EULA flaws?
0 Votes
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EULA = End User License Agreement
davagain 17th Sep 2008
It is very basic, and very easy to look up yourself. here's another acronym for you - NTTBYP (next time think before you post)
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I agree with him
tbcass 18th Sep 2008
You people who really care about EULA's better get a life!!!
0 Votes
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What's a Taliban? (NT)
Galoot_z 17th Sep 2008
What's a "Taliban"?
0 Votes
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the ordinance became known as the Tali-ban. The hyphen has since been dropped from common usage.
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Who Cares?
tbcass 18th Sep 2008
This is a discussion about absolutely nothing. Who cares? Maybe 1000 people in the whole world. What a waste of time.

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