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Hardware 2.0

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Nokia: 'We’re way ahead' of 'outdated' Apple and Google

By | August 11, 2011, 12:22pm PDT

Summary: Nokia is betting everything on Microsoft’s Windows Phone operating system, but is it too little, too late?

Nokia claims that its next-generation smartphones will offer a better interface and far superior cloud experience than is offered by either Google or Apple.

Speaking to VentureBeat, Chris Weber, President of Nokia, head of North America was in bullish mood, attacking the competition on a number of fronts.

First, he attacked Android and iOSes reliance on the app as ‘outdated’ because it forces users to download multiple apps. Instead, Nokia will offer a more seamless interface  … makes sense really since this is the metaphor of Microsoft’s Windows Phone platform. Instead of being standalone apps, apps will be integrated into what people do.

Another ace that Weber sees Nokia having over the competition is cloud integration. ”We’re way ahead of them [Apple and Google],” Weber said in relation to cloud integration to offer features such as cross-platform services for enterprise. Much of this is down to Microsoft’s cloud services, and Weber was eager to talk up Microsoft services such as SkyDrive and Office 365 that would be baked into the handsets.

Another revelation made by Weber was that Nokia will not be releasing its latest N9 Meego-based phone in the US, calling the platform an experiment and saying it will not be replicated.

So, with Nokia dropping Symbian and backpedaling on Meego is clearly betting everything on Windows Phone. But there’s a snag, and that’s shipping. When pressed on availability, Weber would only say that Windows Phone-based Nokia handsets wouldn’t be available in the US “in volume” until 2012. The reason given is that Nokia wants to build a good working relationship with the carriers. Whatever the reason, it seems that Nokia won’t be cashing in on this year’s holiday spending jamboree.

How will this work out? Who knows. Until we get to see (and use) Windows Phone-powered Nokia handsets then it’s hard to know how good the handsets are and what differentiates Nokia’s Windows Phone handsets from the competition.

Poll

Is Nokia right to bet everything on the Windows Phone platform?

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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"Is Nokia right to bet everything on the Windows Phone platform?"

Only time will tell. However, Windows Phone has a bigger backing to it than MeeGo or Symbian did. They were correct in dumping those.
0 Votes
+ -
Didn't take them long...
Richard Flude Updated - 11th Aug
to adopt the "our next version is going to be really good" strategy from the MS competitive playbook.

A true meeting of marketing minds. Unfortunately consumers have been hearing this for too long to continue to believe it. Time will tell...
@Richard Flude Nonono! Not Mango - the one after that, Tango is the good one. Requires new hardware too, so Mango phones are a dead end.
0 Votes
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@Cylon Centurion IMHO they would have been wise to have an Android offering or two as well.
With a president that confident about its products you know that Nokia + WP7 is going to be totally awesome. They saw early on that WP7 is going to separate them from the rest of the pack and differentiate them. Apple and Android should be afraid, very afraid.
@LoverockDavidson ... and once again we have the iPhone killer like we've not heard that one over the past few years:) Wake me up when something actually happens.

Pagan jim
@James Quinn
Its about to happen, I wouldn't go to sleep if I were you.
@James Quinn Depends on how you're referring to it...

The iPhone Killer = Better Hardware? We've already had that...

The iPhone Killer = More Feature Rich OS? We've already had that as well...

The iPhone Killer = Short Term Sales? We've even had that...

The iPhone Killer = Total Phone Sales? With so many other handsets running Windows Phone 7, Android and WebOS you won't see a single phone outselling the iPhone over the long haul because there's far too many choices for one to beat everything else out.

If you want an Apple phone you pretty much have two choices and one of those is likely to disappear fairly soon... With Windows Phone 7 and Android you have at least 10 different handsets that target a different market.
0 Votes
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Where it counts... Profit!
James Quinn 11th Aug
@Peter Perry .. Margins per individual sale and profits generated from said sale in terms of Apps, Movies, songs, TV Shows etc..etc. We've all seen the PC Price Wars and what I learned is that selling a huge volume is meaningless unless there is some sort of profit involved.

Pagan jim
0 Votes
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@LoverockDavidson .. Wait and see shall we and by that I don't mean I plan on sitting on the edge of my chair:)

Pagan jim
@James Quinn
like Android is these day.
Sure there are alot of Android phones out there, but is there any real profit?
Even Motorola is back peddling saying they're interested in putting WP7 on some of their devices as the Android arena is just too cut throat.

MS doesn't need this to be the best selling to make a good profit from it, just like Apple is.

Apple sells more phones then any single handset maker, but they don't sell more then all of them combined, which is why they are making a profit.

It sounds like Nokia has the same attitute - make a great handset and use an OS that won't be diluted by competing with cheap knockoffs.
@James Quinn Didn't Android already kill iOS in a meteoric rise to #1?
@LoverockDavidson Why should Apple and Android be afraid? Nokia lost half of it's distribution chain and WP7 has less than 5% of the Market share? It will be a the great phone that no one ever had.
@Guyver21
They should be afraid because WP7 + Nokia have no where to go but up. Every time they increase market share its taking away from Apple and android.
0 Votes
+ -
Nokia is DOA, thanks to Microsoft
johnf76@... Updated - 12th Aug
http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Gartner-2Q-2011-smartphone-report/

From the article: "Microsoft's platforms, which presumably include Windows Mobile in addition to Windows Phone 7, saw the largest percentage decrease from the previous quarter. Microsoft dropped to 1.6 percent from 3.6 percent"

But don't let FACTS get in the way, Loverock! 1.6 percent. Yeah, great choice, Nokia, I'm sure Google and Apple are shaking over a 1.6 percent domination of the market. Heck, I'll bet Nokia may get dominate that piece of the pie when they release their WP7 phone...and they'll clean up!
@johnf76@...
Enjoy the ride on top while you can, but android is going down soon. Its fragmented and plagued with litigation problems. Any handset maker would be crazy to release an android phone and they are starting to realize that. WP7 will bring to the table much needed competition and a whole new way of looking at mobile data.
@LoverockDavidson
Windows phones are a fad. And not even a very big fad, since they're lumped in with "other" in the market share charts. I think the problem is that they aren't worth the money.

It's too bad about Nokia.
I suspect my Nokia N8 will be the last Nokia phone I buy. I like the symbian os more than iOS, Android, or WP and am quite bummed that symbian won't be available any longer. I'm not sure what phone I will go with next, but right now a nice Samsung phone running Android would probably be the front runner. It seems to me that Nokia has blamed it's woes in the US smart phone market on symbian and I don't think that's the case. I think instead it was it's lack of carrier support, which I think had a lot to do with Nokia offering applications on it's phones which the carriers also offered as pay services, and nokia refusing to budge. Which, honestly, is one of the reasons I like nokia's and which is why I paid the full un-subsidized price for the Nokia N8. I think if Nokia could have found a way to get their phones price point down to $225 and had spent more on marketing in the US, explaining why unlocked phones were better, I think Nokia could have been a game changer. I can't speak for everyone else, but 3 of my last 4 phones have been nokia's and the only phone I was unhappy with was the non-nokia one. The non-nokia phone was also the only one that I got rid of after only 2 years, the first 2 nokia's I kept for a total of 8 years (both for 4 years each), and got rid of them not because they didn't work anymore, but because the options on them had become so outdated. Anyway, I'm sad to see nokia closing the door on Symbian. Maybe someone could convince samsung to start using Symbian on some of it's phones. The Galaxy series are pretty nice phones.
@mgrubb@...
Sorry to hear about your loss, but if you are looking for a good phone you might want to go with an HTC. I handle many different platforms here at work and the HTC's are by far the best phones on the market right now. These phones "just work" whether is be Android or Windows Phone. I recommend the HTC Windows Phone from my experience with multiple platforms, but Android on HTC is superior to Samsungs offerings. HTC Incredible was the best phone I have ever owned outside my HTC Trophy which is better because the interface is much smoother and easier to navigate. iOS is good, but just seems outdated after using a Windows Phone interface. All the old women here had to have iPhones so now I call it "your grandmothers" phone.
0 Votes
+ -
Well I will say this much....
James Quinn 11th Aug
Android has it's IP issues to settle and is in the midst of a repeat of the famous PC price wars thing. So OEM's may very well find themselves selling both WP and Android just to find some breathing space and maybe make some actual money? Something they presently are finding rather difficult.

Pagan jim
@James Quinn

It'll be interesting to see what fate Android has in store for it. Hopefully, this is a wake up call for Google to quit being sleazy.
@Cylon Centurion You mean like Apple?
@James Quinn They have no issue... You guys spout this stuff but Android only has Oracle chasing it down and you'll see that being dealt with soon enough and if the former CEO of Sun really did congratulate them then this legal battle will be over before it has begun!
0 Votes
+ -
I don't think so.....
James Quinn 11th Aug
@Peter Perry .. Even "IF" the former CEO of Sun did congratulate them so what of it? Does that make it a legal signed licensing contract? I think not. As for others I think there are more out there and Apple is far from done and who knows what MS has coming:P

Pagan jim
@Peter Perry

...and the Rubin email from 2008 stating "damn the license, we'll do it anyway and see them in court", and the 2010 email stating "everything else sucks, we'll have to license Java".

Those sort of override the ex-Sun guys blog post.
The browser on Windows Phone Mango blows away the Android browser too. Everything is much faster and smoother.
@cool8man Actually this depends on the Phone, the Trophy actually proved to be slower than several Android Phones and the iPhone.
0 Votes
+ -
Elop needs even more M$ employees at Nokia to back him up. This guy's CV is just like Elop's.

These M$ guys are arriving in numbers at Nokia headquarters and will kill it very soon. Who are Elops/Webers to land at Nokia and claim that Nokia engineers are not capable to build top of the range mobiles. What are their credentials in the field. Pathetic....

Nokia N9 is a pure technological gem and these incompetent and greedy people will not even give us a chance to buy it. Why not let the market to decide between Meego and WP, not some of the biggest M$ shareholders!
0 Votes
+ -
Nokia HQ moving to US
symbolset 11th Aug
@BoByrski They're going to put it in a filing cabinet in one of Microsoft's offices in Bellevue.
The thing is using downloaded applications leads to a thriving developer base where people can make money, catering to phone users needs.

For example Symbian and Android killed the market for third party GPS on their devices by giving it away for free.

The N95 was "better" than the iPhone, then the N96, N97 and N8, all "better" on paper but we all know how that turned out.
I loved my n95. There hasn't been a phone made since that had as much function and it didn't even need 400,000 apps. It didn't even need touch screen. The n97 was a load of crap but did have 32 gb. I can't wait for Nokia to do a modern day n95.
0 Votes
+ -
Remember "Embrace and Extinguish"?
johnelberling@... 11th Aug
mr. weber plainly lives inside his own personal Reality Distortion Field. by the time Nokia gets its act together and launches a full WinPhone product line next year, WinPhone will have 1% smartphone market share on its own, and Nokia probably 5% (without dead-man-walking Symbian what do they have to sell at all between now and then?).

i guess he'll say then "we have nowhere to go but up!"

but in fact they do, and they will go somewhere else - MS will take over Nokia outright in early 2013 after all hope of 2012 Holiday sales saving the day crash and burn. remember "embrace and extinguish"? not quite how they meant it tho. but i think MS can hold about 3% of the market - for as long as Ballmer is CEO.
0 Votes
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Message has been deleted.
zafer12 Updated - 14th Aug
0 Votes
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Message has been deleted.
zafer12 Updated - 14th Aug
You can keep the cloud. I'll take responsibility for my data and not leave it open to abuse in the cloud
I have a contract due for renewal in December and am hoping that I can get android ice cream, iPhone 5 and Nokia with windows mango out by then. I have a windows mobile at the moment and really like it but would love a top end handset to go with mango. It is getting so hard to choose these days.
As I sit in front of my Vista laptop showing the message "Upgrade in progress do not switch off" for the last 7 hours (typing this on another laptop) I wonder what Nokia has got itself into.

I am very confused when comments fly on how good Microsoft is at software. I must the most unlucky person in the word. Experiencing such minor glitches.

I am no big fan of the iPhone but have to admit Apple is way ahead when it comes to software and the user experience (especially compared to Microsoft). It what allows them to charge a premium for their products that consumers are willing to pay.

Flooding the market with WP7 devices will only work if the OEM's are willing to accept very very low margins and operators the risk of dead phones clogging up their distribution channels.

I, for one, will never pay for a WP7 device and wouldn't dream of entering a fixed contract with one.

And history has already started to repeat itself (remember the first WP7 upgrade that bricked 10% of phones?).

Apple are so far ahead it just makes your head spin.

Remember WP7 Mango is an exercise in the game of catch-up.

Apple already have their eco-system set-up, distribution channels ready and the tech world hungry for the next instalment of iPhone and iPad.

Come on people when is the last time you saw Apple pay people to review their products (for a second time)?
Regardless of claims, I loved my windows based phone, the old Blackjack. Because it was windows it was possible to diddle with the thing, to have more control over it. Seemed convenient. I'd still have it if it had not taken an unintentional swim. If the Nokia hardware's up to snuff, this ought to do well. If it's a good final product, it will also prod the others into making offerings more advantageous to customers.
0 Votes
+ -
Nokia are 'bullish' ...
Heenan73 12th Aug
... Well, they'd hardly be 'bearish' at a promo, would they.

With M$ behind them, they might stay in the game for a while, but they won't beat Apple or Android by hard wiring a bunch of M$ products; the point of apps is user choice, and I'd be extremely surprised if they turned back the clock - even though the patent-loving M$ would love that to happen.

Amazon's response to Apple's app scam is to use web-based systems. I bet that never occurred to M$/Nokia.
0 Votes
+ -
I'd like Nokia to survive, they make great phones. IMHO, Android would have been a much better option.
0 Votes
+ -
Hey Nokia: *3001#12345#
bpunk88 16th Aug
Sorry, but thats about how relevant you are in the mobile phone market currently. Both Nokia and Motorola used to be the largest players, then they got surpassed by the technology. Now it's time to try to play catchup.

Windows Phone isn't a bad bet consdering the patent lawsuits Apple is throwing at every manufacturer. What IS missing are Windows Phone devices. Last count I believe there was only 1 option per carrier, all of which were made by HTC!
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