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Hardware 2.0

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

PandaLabs wants Windows antivirus software ballot ... but it already exists!

By | November 9, 2010, 6:35am PST

PandaLabs wants Microsoft to offer a Windows antivirus software ballot to customers along the lines of the browser ballot currently being offered in Europe.

In an exclusive interview with PC Pro, PandaLabs technical director Luis Corrons had this to say:

“We think this is not fair,” said Corrons, referring to the inclusion of Microsoft Security Essentials in Windows Update. “It is trying, somehow, to bundle the software it develops and take out competitors.

Corrons seems mistaken as to how Windows Update works. Windows users will only see the option to download Microsoft Security Essentials in Windows Update is they open up Windows Update application and choose to install optional updates.

Corrors goes on:

“A single solution is a security nightmare,” he continued. “If all of us have the same security software, that makes it easier for the bad guys.”

Corrons claimed a ballot similar to the browser choice screen would be a fairer solution. “There should be a list of a number of security software packages out there - including Microsoft, of course - and then let the user make the choice,” he said.

Maybe Corrons hasn’t been keeping up with things, but as Ed Bott points out, Microsoft already has a link that customers can use taking them to a page highlighting 25 programs, mostly paid for applications, including PandaLabs products. Much like the browser ballot, this listing is randomized.

Perhaps Microsoft should display the cost per year of these product alongside the links?

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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RE: PandaLabs wants Windows antivirus software ballot ... but it already ex
Adaminvegas67 24th Nov 2010
Good grief the corporate whining. One gets so sick of seeing corps and governments saying "MS isn't playing fair boo hoo." Telling them they have to unbundle this and that from the OS. Now they are whining because MS is offering a free AV along with the other options. Protection that everyone can afford is a big win for everyone. This way no one hhas an excuse for not having AV.
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And it begins..
bobiroc 9th Nov 2010
Security Essentials Shows up as an OPTIONAL to machines that have no antivirus protection and now the paid for solutions are starting to cry foul.

When the little action center flag comes up and if the user actually clicks on it for more information and they have no AntiVirus software installed I am pretty sure it takes you to the page displayed above with many choices to choose from. Does it not? So there is no problem but Panda wants to make a big deal out of nothing.
@bobiroc - it does take you there.
@bobiroc

If I have to choose between the company that makes my OS and provides free software and a Panda, then I think I'll take MS.

How does the Panda use a keyboard anyhow? - or do they have Kinects?
@tonymcs@...

It uses Bamboo Gloves
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AV vendors complaining about this...
Joe_Raby 9th Nov 2010
...don't have consumers best interests at heart. If they honestly wanted consumers to have their crap preloaded, they should make more attractive deals to OEM's. So far, none of the big OEM's AV partners has complained about Microsoft's offering.

Perhaps Microsoft should post a value assessment of comparative scores vs. price.

Re: AV ballot box:

They shouldn't be complaining one bit about Microsoft. Microsoft is doing free advertising for them, and at the same time, sometimes when you see the ballot box, there is no listing for Microsoft. Nothing like biting the hand that feeds you...
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Just replace Windows
itguy08 9th Nov 2010
For now you really only need AV software on Windows.
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You suck at IT
Joe_Raby 9th Nov 2010
nt
@Joe_Raby It does not stand for Information Tech. It stands for I dio T....
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@itguy08

Oh why didn't I think of that? Because it is insane that is why. Windows runs the software my Teachers and Students need and want to use. Windows offers the compatibility needed to function with the outside world, the list goes on.

Besides if you think you can run a non Windows environment without some sort of AV protection then you better not ever communicate with anyone outside your network. Because while many of the infections may not affect the local operating system that is NOT Windows it makes the machine a carrier and could cause trouble for machines that run windows if they receive an email or a file from that non-windows computer that just happens to be a carrier. So that just compounds the problem. It is for that reason I have an Antivirus/AntiMalware solution on the Macs I manage as well as the Linux Servers I manage.

I highly suggest you change your display name to NotAnitguy08
@itguy08
You really know nothing, do you? This isn't XP anymore. Windows 7 is rock-solid.
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@itguy08 Let me guess... you are one of those who claims that the Mac OSX and Linux is invulnerable to any sort of virus, malware, trojan, or even an ID-10T error... a perfect example of a ID-10T error is your post.
@athynz He and Donnieboy/Frothy2 have a date night together quite often.
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@athynz
I don't think anybody claims they're "invulnerable" as can be attested here

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Linuxvirus

The likelihood for infection is pretty low. Not impossible.

Nothing is absolute, so knock off the red herrings.
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My take on AV software
Joe_Raby Updated - 9th Nov 2010
There is no part of AV software that is a benefit to consumers.

It is a requirement, yes, but it doesn't benefit consumers and their use of the computer. It's a security and prevention measure, but you can't say that consumers gain something from having it. They only reason you have it is to prevent a detriment. If you assigned a score to having antimalware software, the user wouldn't be +1, they'd be at 0, assuming it worked as it should, and not having it would be in the negative. The only person that gains from it is the developer, for making money off it. Microsoft gives away Security Essentials, and that's good - antimalware software is a computing requirement. Let all the antimalware developers value their software to the users benefit instead of their own, and no antimalware software would cost a cent.
I hope Microsoft takes them off that page. That'll teach them to run their mouth without doing research first. Maybe it'll click in their heads that MSE is an optional download too.
@Loverock Davidson Perhaps other people would need a "lesson" then. Perhaps other operating system would have to be developed in Europe. Perhaps Windows would have to be forbidden in all the EU area. Perhaps all that "Games for Windows" and all the programs that only run on Windows would have to run on other operating systems or watch how the don't have license to operate in Europe.
If Windows, Adobe and such companies work in Europe and enjoy their privileged position is because we admit it. Come on try to change it, we will obtain a benefit from you stopping to steal information from us anymore.
Don't use Windows, Don't need AntiVirus. Very straight forward.
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Some clarifications
lcorrons 9th Nov 2010
Hi Adrian,

I can guarantee that I know how Windows Update works happy

As you know, in Windows Update you don't have any other choice but Security Essentials, no ballot there. A number of free security solutions should be offered there, not just Microsoft's.

All our points are explained in the blog post: http://pandalabs.pandasecurity.com/microsoft-just-doesn%E2%80%99t-get-it%E2%80%A6-security-is-about-diversity/

Best regards,
Luis Corrons
@lcorrons

Why add your product there when you have absolutely nothing to do with designing the OS or update mechanisms? Its an optional download for a reason. You just want another distribution channel. Microsoft already provided a link for you on another page, be happy with that before they pull you off of it.
@lcorrons

so since when does microsoft offer software that is not associated with a piece of hardware such as a driver to be downloaded from Microsoft Update that is not made by them?

I read your little link and all I have to say is if I were Luis Corrons I would be embarrassed of that blog. Oh wait that is you. Complaining because Microsoft doesn't allow MSE to be installed on pirated versions of Windows. Does Panda allow definition updates and other updates to be allowed into pirated versions of their software? Does McAfee, Symantec, Anyone? No.

Also if you had a clue you would know that Microsoft has heard some of the requests and is updating the Engine of Forefront and MSE to offer better protection and make it less reactive. Pandalabs and others can do their own advertising and as shown above it is advertised as a potential solution right on Microsoft's page so the only complaint is that is should be in the MICROSOFT Update list. Hmm maybe you missed the part where it says Microsoft in that and not Microsoft and ever other vendor in the world that makes any kind of software update. Get a life dude!
@lcorrons
Luis your points are mostly valid but the thing I don't get is you didn't have a problem with microsoft not pushing ANY AV solution for all this time and when MS starts pushing an optional software for users who don't have any protection you cry out foul.
Microsoft is right in this case to protect thier users (It's their OS after all) .
May be if you had come up with the ballot brainchild before microsoft came up with the solution you might have sounded more convicing after all!
@lcorrons So what you are saying is that WINDOWS Update, a software that is integrated into the WINDOWS OS for the purpose of upgrading WINDOWS should now HAVE TO include antivirus options from different companies?

Is it just me or does that seem like a really stupid idea? Why should Microsoft have to include information about other companies software in an updater that updates Microsoft software and drivers for whatever hardware the user has installed?

Really how freaking hard it is for one to google "Windows Antivirus Software" and follow the links? Seriously how much does Microsoft have to dumb down the computing experience?
@lcorrons
Hello Mr. Corrons. Why should you expect microsoft to give you access to their update mechanism for their software? How much do you think they should charge you for that service, and are you willing to pay to play? Thank you in advance for your answers>
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Some further clarifications
Maurizio Albera 9th Nov 2010
@lcorrons:

After the first installation, every AV soft does its own updates. So, why should MS care about this?
Windows Update is meant to update MS soft, and core drivers as i/o, video, network or sound cards.
And, of course, the above mentioned drivers HAVE to be WHQL compliant, so MS could ensure for them correctly work on every W7 machine.
It's rather obvious that no one could, or IMHO should, verify ALL the damn soft that claim itself "compatible" with any OS, to ensure that it really works, except for the producer... hence, I find obvious that no one could, or should, distribute this software except for the producer.
MS went often wrong in the past about monopolistic practices, but I actually think this time they are acting in a quite correct way NOT pushing too forth the other brands.
BTW: I've been using Firefox and Thunderbird over about 6 years, and I still prefer them vs. IE&OE... that's meant that the "alternative" soft was, and IS, available and in-reach even without the MS advertisement, and even against the MS wishes, if you REALLY care wink
Regards happy
so since when does microsoft offer software that is not associated with a piece of hardware such as a driver to be downloaded from Microsoft Update that is not made by them?

@bobrockhead

So what's the difference? Did M$ make the printer drivers for my HP LaserJet 1300? If not, then why did they include them in a windoze update?

Luis the Pandaguy wonders why HP gets a break on hardware drivers but they don't on AV. Legitimate question.
@ahh so

Because it is an update for something that is ALREADY on the computer. Big difference between supplying an updated driver usually intended to fix a problem of an existing piece of software or hardware then offering a endless list of choices of software from 3rd party vendors. I wouldn't expect you to understand. If I have an ATI Video Card they do not give me an option to download anything NVidia. This is just saying security center detected no antivirus software and since you (the user) ignored the security center/action center messages here is one from US as the maker of the operating system as something optional. Had you (the user) clicked on the security/action center messages you would be taken to a page of choices from many different vendors.

Also quit calling me bobrockhead. It makes you sound like an immature little punk which based on your lack of comprehension anything logical I suspect that is what you are.
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Because it is an update for something that is ALREADY on the computer. Big difference between supplying an updated driver usually intended to fix a problem of an existing piece of software or hardware then offering a endless list of choices of software from 3rd party vendors.

No, bobrockhead. I plugged the printer into the USB port for the first time and hit update and it found that updated driver for me. There was no pre-existing driver on that machine, which leads me to ask, once again, why HP gets a break on the drivers while Luis the Pandaguy's AV doesn't?

I wouldn't expect you to understand.

Of course not. You always underestimate me.

Also quit calling me bobrockhead. It makes you sound like an immature little punk which based on your lack of comprehension anything logical I suspect that is what you are.

Sure, bobrockhead. Anytime.

lol... grin
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@ahh so

...I plugged the printer into the USB port for the first time and hit update and it found that updated driver for me. There was no pre-existing driver on that machine, which leads me to ask, once again, why HP gets a break on the drivers while Luis the Pandaguy's AV doesn't?

Uh because you plugged in the printer and it needs a driver to work duh! The fact that you do not get that shows you clueless you are. The driver was not offered to you before you plugged in the printer was it? Still a big difference in a driver needed to make a device function and an optional security software suite.

Of course not. You always underestimate me.

Nope you are very transparent and easy to figure out.
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Uh because you plugged in the printer and it needs a driver to work duh!

That's right. Doh! But M$ didn't have to supply it, now did they? It was up to the owner to find the driver himself, not M$. So why is there this favoritism? Is it because they're an OEM? A tool of M$ in everything but name only?

Rhetorical questions, I might add... I just want to hear you admit it, that's all. The truth will set you free.

The driver was not offered to you before you plugged in the printer was it? Still a big difference in a driver needed to make a device function and an optional security software suite.

And once again, M$ didn't have to supply it. And unlike video drivers, a printer is just as optional as AV software.

So once again, why does HP get a break and not the Pandaguy?

Nope you are very transparent and easy to figure out.

Still underestimating me, bobrockhead. Why am I not surprised...
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This is ******* rediculous.
Cylon Centurion Updated - 9th Nov 2010
I don't need a ballot for every single little ******* thing in the OS.

So Microsoft has taken a tougher stance on securing Windows and Office. Boo Hoo. They have every right to, AND it is in the best interest of it's users.
@Cylon Centurion 0005 The nut job got his 15 minutes of fame and free advertising by complaining.
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No it's not
ahh so 9th Nov 2010
Because the next step after this is bundling. You watch.
Antivirus companies thrive because of the vulnerability of the software they protect. If (but don't hold your breath) all operating systems were suddenly so secure that only social engineering could introduce malware, and that malware was so nailed down by the OS that it didn't affect anything else, I for one would be impressed and delighted. And the market for anti-virus products would dwindle.
Sadly, I believe MS are entitled to do anything they can to protect their OS. On the big scale of things, if it puts antivirus companies out of business can that be bad?
I downloaded MS Security Essentials yesterday but then I read their EULA and it wierded me out.
I'm not surprised. They want you to join their Borg Collective and do a mind-meld with Mr. Spock.

Just another reason for M$ to own you.
@james.vandamme

Exactly what in the EULA turned you off. Seems pretty standard to me. Says you can use the software freely but you cannot tear apart at its code and make it into something else and sell it as is or modified. Says you have to have a legal version of Windows to use it and be a home or small business user. Seems pretty standard to me.
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Anti malware
sboverie 9th Nov 2010
I use MS Security Essentials for my home computer and for my friends. It is a good product in that it does not throttle the OS when it is working and it updates itself.

I recently cleaned a serious malware infection on a friend's computer, even though he had MSSE installed, he did not run a full scan as often as he should have. The result was a series of viruses and trojans that eventually stopped MSSE from working and made it hard to search for an online scan. I googled online virus scan and got the expected results but when I clicked on a link to Panda I was redirected to a site that wanted to sell security 2010 (a known bogus AV that installs more spyware). I had to cut and paste the URL from the search list to go to the legitimate sites.

I tried to use Panda's free scan but it required installing too much for me to be confident that it would not get messed up by the current infection. I was able to find a workable online scan that did clean up the virus, trojan and malware infections.

Years ago, I was trying to clean up an infection and I googled AV company A and got a pop up from the spyware suggesting company B. Both AV companies are in the top 5 AV companies and one paid another company to use spyware to suggest their product. My attitude is that since company B used the services of a spyware company that they were participating in the very activities I was trying to stop.
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I think what we really need...
Rodo1 9th Nov 2010
...is an OS ballot on new PCs.
@Rodo1

Why? Don't like what the brand offers then look somewhere else. Plenty of brands to choose from or have one built OS Free. When less than 2% of the people want a computer that doesn't have Windows or MacOS on it then why bother. Today a trained monkey can build a computer and you usually can build a much higher quality computer less expensive than any OEM including the operating system.
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I'm not so sure.
Rodo1 10th Nov 2010
@bobiroc Where do you get your less than 2% figure? People have been forced to take Windows so long that they may not realize there is an option. I think Microsoft should be ripe for another anti-trust action.
@Rodo1

It is beyond ridiculous to claim that people don't know that OS X is a competitor to Windows, and any claim to the contrary is outright fanboy nonsense.
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Who was talking about OS X?
Rodo1 10th Nov 2010
@bobiroc I am not an Apple "fanboy" in any way, shape, or form. I was referring to other OSs for PCs. If it is not a monopoly to have Windows shoved down your throat when you purchase a PC, I don't know what is. And I do think another anti-trust action is warranted.
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Well I'm sure
ahh so Updated - 10th Nov 2010
I know exactly what you mean, @Rodo1. I would like to see some Linux distributions be made as an OS choice. Wouldn't cost them much of anything since makers like Dell can build them on an order-by-order basis with just-in-time online ordering. The hardware is already built. All the factory would need is the image to put on it from an image server.

Sh!t_I'd even settle for machines with blank drives on them and let me choose it later. Why infect my new hardware with pre-existing windoze crapware that I'd have to go to the trouble of taking off.

Dell does have a couple of Linux choices, but not for their latest processors and hardware. You have to understand that M$ has had a pre-existing monopoly for so long now that alternatives to the present, outdated business model is beyond their comprehension. Their vehement opposition almost seems like they feel threatened by any Linux choice. Even if it results in poor Linux sales.

It's nice to see them 1% fearful, though... wink
@Rodo1

Where do you get your less than 2% figure? People have been forced to take Windows so long that they may not realize there is an option. I think Microsoft should be ripe for another anti-trust action.

So the figures widely available to anyone that show that Linux as a desktop OS is being used on about 2% at most is not accurate? And no one is forcing anyone to use Windows. Don't like what a certain OEM offers or what is available on a shelf at retail store "X" then look somewhere else. You have the option to build yourself or have one built and in many cases you get a higher quality computer at a cheaper price. Considerably cheaper if you build it yourself which today a trained monkey can do if you ask me. There is nothing here stopping anyone from using another security suite. Absolutely Nothing

I am not an Apple "fanboy" in any way, shape, or form. I was referring to other OSs for PCs. If it is not a monopoly to have Windows shoved down your throat when you purchase a PC, I don't know what is. And I do think another anti-trust action is warranted.

In case you missed it Mac OS is an Operating System just like Windows so it is competition to Windows and since Macs are made up of the same hardware as a PC it is just another PC with a different OS offered standard. Nothing different about a Mac other than the logo that is on the case.
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Re: Well I'm Sure
bobiroc 11th Nov 2010
@Ahh So

You can get a computer with a blank drive. Build one or visit a local computer shop that has them for sale. Just because major OEMs offer what the majority of people want (which is Windows) and only have a select line or two where they offer Linux doesn't mean you have to choose them does it? I fail to see how anyone is making you buy that Dell or HP with Windows on it. It's the consumer's choice and just because they are too lazy to shop around to find what fits their needs doesn't mean anyone is forcing them. I don't generally like what most OEMs offer either so I choose to build my own computers and get a higher quality computer and save a crap load of money. My current quad core rig was just over $1300 and when I compared it to an OEM using the exact same motherboard, processor, video card, hard drive and comparable in the offerings in RAM, Power Supply, and other features I saved nearly $1100 and that included a Windows Professional license. I chose Windows and no one made me use it. And you know what? It works great. I can run all the software I want, play all the games I want, and have no issue with anything I want to do on my computer.
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Why is bobrockhead so afraid?
ahh so Updated - 11th Nov 2010
You can get a computer with a blank drive. Build one or visit a local computer shop that has them for sale.

I shouldn't have to do that, bobrockhead. That was my point .

Just because major OEMs offer what the majority of people want (which is Windows) and only have a select line or two where they offer Linux doesn't mean you have to choose them does it?

Try not to confuse "what they want" with "what they get" . I learned a long time ago most people don't know any difference being offered to them. You could put Lindows on there and they wouldn't know the difference.

I fail to see how anyone is making you buy that Dell or HP with Windows on it.

Try finding one without it. Why are you so afraid of choice? Put it out there alongside windoze on a ballot and let's see it flop. You won't even go that far.

What it is you are so desperately afraid of? Fear they there might be a remote chance that it may catch on? Hmm?

It's the consumer's choice and just because they are too lazy to shop around to find what fits their needs doesn't mean anyone is forcing them.

They take what's shoveled at them. The $350 laptop has windoze on it and nothing more. When choice is lacking, they just think nothing else exists.

But we know better than that, don't we bobrockhead? Don't we?

I don't generally like what most OEMs offer either so I choose to build my own computers and get a higher quality computer and save a crap load of money.

Not everybody can do that. Not everybody wants to do that. You know that as well as I do.

The OEMs have been paying the M$ tax for years, in spite of the bogus Justice Department 'settlement' which wasn't really a settlement at all. Just as sweeping it all under the rug, business as usual.

After all, we're only talking about an image that can be stored on an image server when needed and when ordered. No rocket science and no real overhead in doing that.

It's still the greatest 1% in the whole wide world, thanks to you shills and fanboys who growl with hostility everytime it's name is mentioned. happy
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@ah so

I shouldn't have to do that, bobiroc. That was my point.

So because you want something a very very small percentage people actually want they should cater to you. Yeah that makes good business sense. In the business world there is a thing called supply and demand and since there is much less demand of computers without a Major OS installed on it like Windows or even MAC OS there is less supply. Get it? It is a really simple concept.

Try not to confuse "what they want" with "what they get". I learned a long time ago most people don't know any difference being offered to them. You could put Lindows on there and they wouldn't know the difference.

I think it is you that is confused on this. I mean more people would rather pirate Windows than use a free linux distro. You mean to tell me that they can research how to pirate software but cannot look for a free alternative? Lindows was tried at the retail channel and it failed miserably. Computers with Lindows was sold at Stores like Best Buy, Tigerdirect, Microcenter, Circuit City (in my area) and they rotted on the shelf. They were also not much cheaper than the same model running Windows sitting right next to it so people chose the one with Windows. A friend of mine's mother got duped by a salesperson to by a SystemMax computer with Lindows on it with the guarantee that it would run all her software and she absolutely hated it. Returned it and paid the $10 difference for the same computer with Windows on it.

Try finding one without it. Why are you so afraid of choice? Put it out there alongside windoze on a ballot and let's see it flop. You won't even go that far.

What it is you are so desperately afraid of? Fear they there might be a remote chance that it may catch on? Hmm?


I am not afraid of choice, it is you that is afraid to admit that most people want and choose Windows. It is very simple. Windows is what they are familiar with, it is what runs their software, and it is what they want. Those that do not want Windows have made their choice and some have gone to Mac and others have gone to some other OS. The choice is there. As far as making endless OS options it comes back to supply and demand. That and just what linux distro does this OEM choose from out of the many that are out there. That ballot box would be a mile long and heaven forbid if they leave a distro out that some linux fanboy likes because it would be a whole new argument.

They take what's shoveled at them. The $350 laptop has windoze on it and nothing more. When choice is lacking, they just think nothing else exists.

But we know better than that, don't we bobrockhead? Don't we?


I think you severely underestimate the consumer. Sure there are some that just take the computer no matter what but I think more people know what Windows does (or doesn't) do for them. I mean millions have bought Windows 7 separately from a computer purchase and who forced their hands? No one.

Not everybody can do that. Not everybody wants to do that. You know that as well as I do.

The OEMs have been paying the M$ tax for years, in spite of the bogus Justice Department 'settlement' which wasn't really a settlement at all. Just as sweeping it all under the rug, business as usual.

After all, we're only talking about an image that can be stored on an image server when needed and when ordered. No rocket science and no real overhead in doing that.

It's still the greatest 1% in the whole wide world, thanks to you shills and fanboys who growl with hostility everytime it's name is mentioned.


I understand that but not everyone NEEDS to do that. Only the very small handful of people that do not want a computer mass manufactured have to do that. For those who cannot build then there are plenty of small computer shops that can do it and the price is usually less than a comparable OEM one anyway. But you know as well as I do that the ones that want something outside the norm are usually the ones that are more techie and actually would want to build their own machine.

The fact that you continue this charade that it is Microsoft and the OEMs forcing what they want down the consumer's throats should have you admitted to a mental hospital for insanity. Do you honestly think that if people actually wanted something that it wouldn't be more offered. So you can call me a Microsoft shill but the hard fact remains is that your are just dumb because all you are doing is saying what you want is what everyone wants. I don't see it that way. If people want to buy a Mac and use MacOS or if they want to dump Windows for one of the many Linux distros I don't care. They should use what is best for them and what they choose. In my personal and professional life if Windows does not fit the need I simply do not use it and I set up and manage a small handful of Linux Servers and use a few Open Source software titles at work and at home simply because it fit the needs of the task. Not because it was free and not because it was something without the Microsoft Label on it like you do. Microsoft could put it's name on a brick of gold and you wouldn't touch it solely based that it has Microsoft's name on it. You are the one that is in need of serious help.
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Why is bobrockhead so afraid?
ahh so Updated - 13th Nov 2010
So because you want something a very very small percentage people actually want they should cater to you. Yeah that makes good business sense. In the business world there is a thing called supply and demand and since there is much less demand of computers without a Major OS installed on it like Windows or even MAC OS there is less supply. Get it? It is a really simple concept.

It doesn't cost much of anything to keep an image on an image server and calling on it when need be. Dell already has a limited one as it is. There's not much overhead to doing that.

I think it is you that is confused on this. I mean more people would rather pirate Windows than use a free linux distro. You mean to tell me that they can research how to pirate software but cannot look for a free alternative?

Yeah, I believe some people would do that. If the retail price of windoze went down from $399 to under $100, you'd see pirating cut dramatically. It's the perceived intrinsic value that they go after. If something is set artificially high, people will do what they can to steal from it. If it's free, they wouldn't bother.

Lindows was tried at the retail channel and it failed miserably.

Lindows failed because M$ sued them for copyright infringement and even though Lindows won $20 million dollars, it still lost because it didn't have the money to fully sustain itself after it's legal battles. Linspire is just a shell of what it once was. Another victim of M$'s scorched earth policy. Try to get it right.

I am not afraid of choice

Yes you are. If people wanted windoze as much as you say they do, then you shouldn't have anything to fear by offering a drop-down menu choice.

it is you that is afraid to admit that most people want and choose Windows.

Because they don't know anything else. Tell them the word Linux and you get a "whats that?" look on their faces. They aren't informed.

It is very simple. Windows is what they are familiar with, it is what runs their software, and it is what they want. Those that do not want Windows have made their choice and some have gone to Mac and others have gone to some other OS. The choice is there.

No, it is not there. With the notable exception of Dell, IT DOES NOT EXIST.

Why are you afraid of a drop down menu choice? Once again, if you're so confident as to what you say, then you shouldn't have anything to worry about. But you do. That's why we see the vehement opposition.

As far as making endless OS options it comes back to supply and demand. That and just what linux distro does this OEM choose from out of the many that are out there. That ballot box would be a mile long and heaven forbid if they leave a distro out that some linux fanboy likes because it would be a whole new argument.

No, you just offer the majors that are out there. Red Hat, Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, and maybe PCLinuxOS. It wouldn't be an endless ballot stream. How much overhead would adding a drop down menu choice cost to a website? How much, bobrockhead?

I think you severely underestimate the consumer. Sure there are some that just take the computer no matter what but I think more people know what Windows does (or doesn't) do for them.

I disagree. When alternatives aren't being offered, people think there's only one choice out there. You walk into a store and there's nothing but windoze on every machine, it becomes so ubiquitous that people don't pay a lot of attention to it. It's like smartphones or bluetooth headsets. Whatever novelty windoze had to it, ended a long, long time ago.

I mean millions have bought Windows 7 separately from a computer purchase and who forced their hands? No one.

When it comes to PCs there's only one choice being offered. Or at the most, gimped versions of itself. Nothing else. And that's what M$ is counting on.

If M$ didn't have such a stranglehold over the ecosystem out there, developers could put out commercial versions of their software ported over to Linux or whatever else came their way. It's a monopoly by default and you know it.

So once again bobrockhead, why are you so afraid of choice?
Good grief the corporate whining. One gets so sick of seeing corps and governments saying "MS isn't playing fair boo hoo." Telling them they have to unbundle this and that from the OS. Now they are whining because MS is offering a free AV along with the other options. Protection that everyone can afford is a big win for everyone. This way no one hhas an excuse for not having AV.

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