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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes
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Psystar pulls Mac-clone line from online store

By | December 3, 2009, 4:31am PST

Summary: It seems the game’s up for Mac-clone maker Psystar as it pulls its entire line-up of Mac clones from the online store. It does, however, continue to sell a tool that allows Mac OS X to be run on non-Apple-branded hardware.

It seems the game’s up for Mac-clone maker Psystar as it pulls its entire line-up of Mac clones from the online store. It does, however, continue to sell a tool that allows Mac OS X to be run on non-Apple-branded hardware.

UPDATE: Looks like Psystar has also pulled Windows and Linux based PCs from its store.

It didn’t take long for the Florida-based PC maker to pull the Mac clones from its online store following the $2.675 million settlement with Apple. Sure, there will be appeals and such, but surely this story has run its course?

Probably. Psystar still sell an application called Rebel EFI which allows Mac OS X to be run on non-Apple hardware, but this really doesn’t matter, as it’s possible to find plenty of tools and free advice on the web on building Mac clones anyway. Hackintosh systems were around before Psystar started selling clones, and they’ll still be around now that Psystar has stopped selling clones.

I’m not sure why Psystar is continuing to annoy Apple by selling the Rebel EFI app. I’m not sure if it’s deliberate, as in a person who has almost been stung to death by wasps going back to give the hive another kicking, or whether the kicking is just down to the reflexive twitching of the near-dead corpse. Maybe it’s Psystar complying with the letter of the law, maybe it’s a case of saving face, or maybe it’s just an ego-driven move. Whatever the reason, I don’t think it’s all that significant.

Bottom line is though that the idea of OEMs selling Mac clones is dead. If you want to buy a Mac-based system, you’ll have to buy it from Apple.

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Topics

Apple Macintosh, Online Store, Psystar, Desktops, Apple Mac OS X, Hardware, Operating Systems, Software, Apple Mac OS, Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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RE: Psystar pulls Mac-clone line from online store
holeshot@... 4th Dec 2009
An Apple Mac any more stable than my "Jackintosh"? The Intel C2Q 9400 I have running on a Gigabyte motherboard courtesy of Rebel EFI runs fast, stable and cool. As to choice, I choose to run OS X on my own hardware just as some people choose to run linux on a PS3 or linksys router. The notion of vendors locking us into choices that they make is abhorrent in a free society. The real problem here is that the hardware manufacturer is the software manufacturer. Suppose Redmond bought Dell and AMD. Hmmm, forget that we'd all run linux or OS X on Intel.
View in thread
0 Votes
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Apple wants to tell you what to do with your software
D T Schmitz 3rd Dec 2009
You won't get that kind of treatment with Ubuntu 9.10 Linux.

Install it on any machine.

How important is this freedom to you???
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Very important
jaypeg 3rd Dec 2009
Apple gives me the freedom to decide on a (actually, the only)
complete computer with matched, very well designed and integrated
hardware and software, that I know will work productively and reliably
and virus free for years. And Apple, being the sole vendor of this
package, offers a good amount of warranty and accountability. It costs
a bit more to get this kind of package, but as someone who relies on
his computer to make a living, the extra cost is truly nominal.

Good riddance to Psytar! They should try selling an honest product,
one with IP they actually own for a change. Why try to open Apple's
wares and try to turn a good thing into trailer park trash. There's
plenty of other products and options for those who want a toy or
hobby they can hack with.
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Freedom of Choice isn't important to you.
D T Schmitz 3rd Dec 2009
nt
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In what way is there no choice?
John Zern Updated - 3rd Dec 2009
He is free to buy an Apple, or not. That sounds like a choice to me.

Because you can't get OS X on a Dell or HP, or that you have only a certain amount of options?
A lot of PCs sit out there uncustomized, (as they came from the factory), so that doesn't look to be a big concearn to many.

But then, you can't order a Ford with a Chevy engine either: You want that engine, you buy the Chevy. Because someone can swap the engine doesn't mean that Chevy should make changes to their engines to facilitate an easy, no hassle, one on one swap.

He has plenty of choices, the main on being he doesn't have to buy an Apple product if he doesn't want to.
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Thats the only choice
bobiroc 3rd Dec 2009
and while I occasionally will use a car analogy here and there yours does not fit because the engines and their setup are not mechanically compatible and Apples use the same hardware as their PC brothers and sisters in a different shell. The problem is Apple is saying if you want to use our OS you have to buy our computer brand and while that may be acceptable to some others view it as an artificial restriction because the OS can and does run on non-Apple branded computers running the same or similar hardware. Now that Apple doesn't have the different hardware to work with why can they keep discriminating on customers willing to pay for the OS to use on a computer of their choice regardless if they get support or not.
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Okay...
Jkirk3279 3rd Dec 2009
"while I occasionally will use a car analogy here and there yours does
not fit because the engines and their setup are not mechanically
compatible and Apples use the same hardware as their PC brothers
and sisters"

Okay, then look at it this way. You can't load the software from a
Saturn cars' computer on a Mercedes cars' computer.

That straighten things out for you?

"The problem is Apple is saying if you want to use our OS you have to
buy our computer brand"

Yes, that's correct. OS/X is their property, bought and paid for.

Imagine if somebody started buying Macs and openly loading hacked
copies of Windows on them for resale. How would you feel about
that?

Now suppose that this violated Microsoft's EULA.

Would that constitute theft of Microsoft's property?

If I used your argument, I could say that because Intel Macs CAN run
Windows, that Microsoft doesn't have the right to restrict people from
hacking their software.
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Red Hat Linux without the Red Hat
D T Schmitz 3rd Dec 2009
http://blogs.computerworld.com/15191/red_hat_linux_without_the_red_hat?source=rss_vnichols


"So why does Red Hat 'let' this happen when, for example, Apple runs a legal bulldozer over Psystar for selling PCs with Mac OS X pre-installed? Partly, it's because Red Hat really buys into open source. They'd rather help make a bigger open pie for everyone rather than keep one small proprietary pie all to itself."

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Why are you trying to push your ideologies on a tech site?
xuniL_z Updated - 4th Dec 2009
Who cares what a company decides to do. It's free enterprise and capitalism works on supply and demand. Why would you worry about an adult who decides to go with the Apple program? If there is demand, whoopie for Apple. Why do you act like it's skin off of your nose? Do you go to McDonalds and Chastise the counter boy for not offering Whoppers?
Do you petition Pizza Hut to offer the open and free drive thru experience of Little Ceasers?
Are you out of your mind?
Good Lord, please just stick to technology and stay the living &*#$ away from religion.
nobody cares what your religious beliefs are here, it's not the time and place.
mmmkay?
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Actually i ignore anything by SVN, but he is describing Microsoft's ways...
xuniL_z Updated - 4th Dec 2009
So why does Red Hat "let" this happen when Apple runs a legal bulldozer over Psystar for selling PCs with Mac OS X pre-installed? It's partly because Red Hat really buys into open source. They'd rather help make a bigger open pie for everyone rather than keep one small proprietary pie all to itself.

First of all SVN is biased blogger and not a journalist with a shred of credibility.
But beyond that, he is describing the Microsoft philosophy, is he not?

They want to help create a bigger closed source pie for everyone. That is why there are hundreds of millions of people around the world making a decent living to support their families from Microsoft.
They don't care who writes the apps or how popular those apps get for Windows. They support the idea of unlimited "small" businesses making money from providing support for Windows to creating custom Windows applications to VARs.
They don't want the entire retail pie to themselves. There are thousands of retailers who resell MS products and make money because they pay less for licenses.
So what is the diff?
And I'll bet you if any of these little niche players started to cut too deeply into RH's business, we'll see some action. I really don't think Mr. Nichols has a clue behind RHEL's motives.
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Yes you can!
Vanguard_z 3rd Dec 2009
You said you can't order a Ford with a Chevy engine, well, that's not really true. You won't find Ford doing it and why should they, but a lot of shops will do that custom for you. Ford wouldn't sue Chevy, and Ford wouldn't sue the shop either. Well, that was what Psystar was doing. Heck, I have a friend that put a chevy motor and 4-speed in his Volvo, and it works great. That was his choice, and nobody sued him. Apple has turned to the Dark Side (into a Microsoft), you can have it anyway you want, as long as it's our way.
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Much like your Volvo driving friend
use_what_works_4_U 3rd Dec 2009
I have put OS X on non-Apple hardware. The difference between me and
Psystar is that I am not trying to compete with Apple for a profit by doing
so. Apple is not going to sue the hobbyist. They are going to fight a
corporation that tries to generate profit from Apple's hard work, though.
I don't blame them.
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Nothing but Kool-Aid...
GoodThings2Life 3rd Dec 2009
First of all, stop pretending like Apple doesn't have any hardware issues of their own. They do.

I assure you there are security threats and vulnerabilities-- and therefore malware-- for Macs too... when Apple stops releasing security updates, stops getting cracked at every security expo, and Symantec stops selling Mac Antivirus, then and only then will I allow someone to use "security" as a valid claim. Security by obscurity doesn't count as real security.

Now you have a good point about well designed hardware and having a unified platform environment to operate on... but as an IT guy, I provide the same thing at work on Windows. Moreover, your point is only valid if you're an office worker and just need iWorks or Microsoft Office... just try finding industry-specific applications for Mac, and more often than not they don't exist.
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Koolaid tastes GOOD when it's Apple Flavored!
Bright Ideas 3rd Dec 2009
Hate to bust the bubble that separates you from the real world, but
there plenty of programmers out there writing business specific
applications for Macs. And the number grows at a steady pace. And
believe it or not, it's cheaper than most PC programming. 2 years ago
I wanted an accounting/job tracking program for my graphic design
co-op studio. Since I have a few PCs in the office that aren't used
much for graphics due to their inability to handle large files, I decided
to utilize 2 of them for office tasks, and called a software design
company to program what I needed. After waiting 4 months, and
handing over tens of thousands of dollars, I didn't even have a shell to
look at. I cancelled my contract, sued them for the monies paid, and
took my dilemma to the Apple Store. Imagine my surprise when they
told me they could refer me to a Mac programmer that could
accommodate me, and even more surprise when they told me I had
several to choose from. 45 days later I had my software, and have
used it ever since with NO ISSUES WHATSOEVER! So smooch my
behind baby... Macs are busting into the workplace and cleaning
things up a bit.
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sorry lad
s_souche 3rd Dec 2009
if you couldn't get a software after a 4 month
work on PC while 2 month on mac suffice, it's
not the PC fault, but either the programmer, or
their management's fault.

Mac is a nightmare to program compared to PCs,
mainly because of the maturity of dev
environments, and the fact that mac os took 8
year to finalize the migration from mac os 9
programming model
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Sorry, S Souche
Jkirk3279 3rd Dec 2009
"Mac is a nightmare to program compared to PCs,
mainly because of the maturity of dev
environments..."

If he's talking about customizable accounting/job tracking software on
the Mac, he's talking about FileMaker Pro.

There are plenty of software packages that are customized front ends
for FileMaker, and experts that make their living thereby.

It's a mature application, and pretty solid. I have a cousin who hates
Macs, but nevertheless loves FileMaker Pro.

I don't think you're going to find a database app on any platform with
a better pedigree than FileMaker Pro.

"...and the fact that mac os took 8
year to finalize the migration from mac os 9
programming model"

Well, that's an odd viewpoint.

You see, when Apple decided to adopt NeXT OS, they went through
the Mac OS 9 API's and cleaned 25% of them out, keeping only the
most stable.

That formed the foundation of the new Carbon platform.

It's been like that ever since. Even when they switched to Intel they
kept the Carbon platform intact.
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Wake up!
Vanguard_z 3rd Dec 2009
NOBODY can make a virus free computer. This Apple myth was proven to be false long ago. Apple's release of dozens of critical security fixes proves they are susceptable to the work of dedicated criminals the world over, just like everyone else. Based on the lack of significant market share until recently, Apple wasn't worth the effort to hack into, not enough bang for the buck. That has now changed, and the threat to Apple platforms is very real. Actually, due to the widespread propagation of the no virus myth, many Apple owners are completed unprotected, vulnerable and yes, obliviously already infected. Go to Apple's website and see the A/V products for sale on it. If there were no virus' for the Mac, you wouldn't see A/V products on the Apple
website. Buy one, keep the subscription active and updated, and quit being part of the problem.
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Non Sequiter
Jkirk3279 3rd Dec 2009
"many Apple owners are completed unprotected, vulnerable and yes,
obliviously already infected. "

If your statement was true, there would be some evidence of that.

Consider that the A/V companies are watching for a legitimate Mac
Virus, drooling with anticipation, and so far, nothing.

Consider that IF Macs were already infected, as you state, Mac users
would be taking their computers into the Apple Stores begging for
help... the story would be all over the internet by now.

You're making a claim without proof, perhaps because you can't stand
the idea that Macs really are less likely to get malware than Windows
PCs.

As for Apple patching vulnerabilities... that gets played up a lot.

The vulnerability to an exploit does not equal a virus.

Any sufficiently complex software could have a hidden vulnerability.

The only responsible thing to do is to employ programmers to
constantly search for potential exploits and patch them before they
can become a problem.

The irony is that the code in question wasn't written by Apple. It's
always in the open source stuff Apple uses.

That's okay, it's all part of the price of using Open Source.

As for ACTUAL malware, Mac users are only actually vulnerable to
Trojans.

And Apple could only protect their users from Trojans by locking
down the Mac OS the way they locked down the iPhone OS...

...and look at all the whining they got for that decision.
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You DO get that kind of treatment with linux
Loverock Davidson 3rd Dec 2009
You DO get that kind of treatment with linux and worse. I've experienced it. The linux user is always "USE LINUX YOU F@#$!% TARD OR ELSE!!! IT IS TEH BESTEST!!!" Then they go on some rant about how you should drop your current OS and have only linux installed. Yeah lets talk about freedom now. Oh and linux tells you what to do with your software as well. It FORCES you to give up your freedom by releasing it to the public with all source code.
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Uh, dude.
bendib 3rd Dec 2009
First, let me say most linux users are linux users from the bad experience they got from windows, so yes, we are foaming at the mouth. Second, there are plenty of closed source applications, I do not think I need to leave a list. I mean really, what the HELL crawled up your ass??? Do you like to torture people or are you in a strap jacket using the on-screen keyboard on a stolen nurse's laptop with your one free finger??? Why can't you just leave us alone, damn you!!! Get a life, get a brain, get a SOUL!!!
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Wrong
Loverock Davidson 3rd Dec 2009
First, let me say most linux users are linux users from the bad experience they got from windows

Its not from Microsoft Windows, its what they learned from their cult of linux. That is what linux users do, they try to brain wash you into thinking anything but linux is evil and if anyone chooses to use anything other than linux they get very very very upset. Its a nurtured thing.

I mean really, what the HELL crawled up your ass??? Do you like to torture people or are you in a strap jacket using the on-screen keyboard on a stolen nurse's laptop with your one free finger??? Why can't you just leave us alone, damn you!!! Get a life, get a brain, get a SOUL!!!

You prove my point in the above paragraph. You have been brainwashed. A few rehab sessions and breaking away from linux will do you a world of good. I know its going to be hard for you to open your eyes but once you take that first step you will be thanking me. I'll give you a "Glad I could help" in advance.
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Horse shhhhhiiiiii LD
yschoo1@... 3rd Dec 2009
I tumbled onto Ubuntu accidentally from ZdNet ad because my SP machine bogged down after SP3 update quite awhile back( I spent 3 nights reinstalling XP 3 times with the same outcome) not to mention Windows ME. I bought a quad-cored machine from Dell with Windows Vista on it dual-boot with Ubuntu 9.04 and I couldn't get back in the Windows after Adobe security update. Surprise, surprise, my Ubuntu 9.04 somehow for whatever reason survived. Out of desperation, I downloaded Windows 7 RC and tried it on the same machine. It worked splendidly other than a much longer than XP boot-in time, however, my Ubuntu is as swift as ever. I decided to upgrade to the real Windows 7 when it was released in late October. I must say Windows 7 is pretty decent so far. I am now running Windows 7 with Ubuntu and I am enjoying the best of both world. Brainwash? What brainwash? I, also got a non-intelled MacMini. I like my Ubuntu better than Windows and OSX.
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@bendib
PreachJohn 3rd Dec 2009
You're right, and your points are well taken.
BUT, you fed the troll. That just fires up the critter something fierce to flame bait all the more.
Because that's all he does, like clockwork in these forums/blogs.
And probably laughs himself silly after.
As I've said before, tho' it may be a perverse sense of humor emoting from a lonely and bitter soul, no one remotely in their right mind could believe the warmed over, same old fundamentally ignorant claptrap.
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Please take your medicine
T1Oracle 3rd Dec 2009
Most Linux desktop users dual boot. Now go find a brown paper bag and breath.
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Dual boot what?
Loverock Davidson 3rd Dec 2009
It can't be Microsoft Windows because they would NEVER EVER EVER use anything made by Microsoft. It can't be Apple because OS X isn't allowed to run on anything but Apple's hardware. Fact of the matter is linux users cling to their dying OS and try to bring everyone down with them. Go take your meds so you can remember this.
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because they would NEVER EVER EVER use anything made by Microsoft
yschoo1@... 3rd Dec 2009
LD please read from talkback 1-16 from this blog again, not all Linux users are like you.
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Whim Dit
Jkirk3279 3rd Dec 2009
You left out the concept of a Linux user dual booting with
OS/X ON a Mac...
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Apple == IBM in my opinion
blittrell 3rd Dec 2009
You know those old commercials from apple where everyone is working on the same computers and they all look the same and there is a big screen of some big brother dude. Then some blond hotty runs in and throws a sledge hammer at the screen?

That is how I see Apple, think about it, everything they try to control, from ipods only syncing to Itunes, to replacement parts only coming from Apple to computers only coming from Apple etc. You look at every facet of Apple's business and there is a insidious common thread, move people to Apple and don't let any have any choice other then the choices Apple gives you. Then go to Apple conferences and watch the slack jawed crazies drool at every presentation as they are busily sign blank checks for Apple.

I figure the cult of Apple is just that, a cult and when you are in it you will swear up and down that it is not one until you get perspective.

Apple gives you the freedom to choose what Apple thinks you should choose, that is the only freedom they offer.

On the flip side Linux does have it's crazies to, but at least I do not see Red Hat suing some power supply company for trying to offer users a cheaper way to fix Linux hardware.

There are a lot of examples of Apple dictating to customers what they can and can't do, one that is most relevant right now with the Phone carries ratings release from Consumer Reports is the iPhone, you want a iPhone? You have to use this carrier, you have to run this software, anything else and we can make your iPhone a paper weight.

Feels good to be free and un-oppressed, doesn't it...LOL

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Excellent, excellent post. Agree 100% (nt)
NonZealot 3rd Dec 2009
.
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Of course you do, you're oblivious. [nt]
olePigeon 3rd Dec 2009
[nt]
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That's the (in)famous Superbowl ad from 1984
djchandler 3rd Dec 2009
March in lock step with Jobs and you're A-OK with Apple.

Is this what they mean by "Think Different" (1997 ad campaign)?

And how about this latest patent? Do we want Apple force-feeding ads to the proles, er, people?
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No...
olePigeon 3rd Dec 2009
"That is how I see Apple, think about it, everything they try to
control, from ipods only syncing to Itunes..."

So don't buy an iPod. There're tons of PMPs out there, some of which
are arguably better than the iPod. If you're pissed off about how
Apple dictates usage for their own products, then don't use them.
That goes for the Zune, too, which is even more restrictive than the
iPod. Not only is it tied to Microsoft's Zune software, but it doesn't
work on anything except Windows.

"...to replacement parts only coming from Apple to computers only
coming from Apple etc."

Nearly every major PC manufacturer in the world does this.

"You look at every facet of Apple's business and there is a insidious
common thread, move people to Apple and don't let any have any
choice other then the choices Apple gives you."

So don't buy an Apple. Even if you did, you can install Linux,
Windows, or a UNIX flavor other than OS X. I fail to see how your
choices have been removed.

"On the flip side Linux does have it's crazies to, but at least I do not
see Red Hat suing some power supply company for trying to offer
users a cheaper way to fix Linux hardware."

What you just said doesn't make any sense. RedHat doesn't even make
computers. RedHat doesn't own intellectual property rights based on
the designs of any hardware. "Linux" isn't a company, and it
doesn't build computers.

Apple sued the company for making a product that was virtually
identical to their own product. This is called protecting intellectual
property. Apple didn't sue them for making power adapters, they
sued them for making one that looked nearly identical to Apple's. The
other company is perfectly able to make power adapters so long as
they don't look like Apple's; they just have to change how it looks.

"You have to use this carrier, you have to run this software, anything
else and we can make your iPhone a paper weight."

Lots of cell phone manufacturers enter into exclusivity contracts with
carriers. This is a very common business practice. You're just pissy
that Apple didn't do it with your carrier.

This exclusivity contract ends this year, by the way. From that point
you can use an iPhone on any GSM carrier. That's the opposite of
Verizon. Verizon uses CDMA, which locks a phone to a specific
carrier. You're complaining that Apple is temporarily using AT&T
exclusively, but then you're not complaining about being
permanently tied to Verizon or any other CDMA carrier.

Again, if you don't like the services Apple offers for its own
products, then don't buy them. There are tons of other phones out
there arguably better than the iPhone.
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You are right for the most part
blittrell 3rd Dec 2009
I would have to say I agree, don't buy Apple if you don't like it, and I don't buy them. The few apple products I have were free to me and they are very good products, would I pay for it if I had the choice, I don't think so but I have no problem with others paying for it.

My argument was this idea that Apple sets you free, when it really is just mimicking the Apple commercial where they are suppose to be hero, when in fact they are the villain or at least trying very hard to make themselves one now.

The other stuff you wrote was just nit picky trying to pick a part my opinion so you can refute it, guess what, it is my opinion, you can't refute it because it is mine!! As for the Red Hat, I should say that I know they do not produce hardware, I was making a point about the how Apple, by controlling hardware and software, forces people to go 100% Apple, with the increased price tag while other vendors, including MS, can care less what you run on or who sells it or how you customize it.

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Well...
olePigeon 3rd Dec 2009
"As for the Red Hat, I should say that I know they do not produce
hardware, I was making a point about the how Apple, by controlling
hardware and software, forces people to go 100% Apple, with the
increased price tag while other vendors, including MS, can care less
what you run on or who sells it or how you customize it."

Well, Microsoft and Apple have two diametrically opposed business
plans. Microsoft makes money by selling software, that is why they
couldn't care less what hardware it runs on, or who sells, or how you
customize it; Microsoft makes money regardless of what computer
you buy.

Apple makes their money on hardware. The software simply exists to
sell the hardware; by and large, Apple doesn't make money on any of
its software. The same is true about iTunes; it's only function is to sell
iPods and iPhones. It matters what computer the software runs on
because it is the computer Apple makes its bread and butter.
Apple's business philosophy surrounds the hardware, not the
software. If someone isn't buying an Apple computer or laptop, Apple
loses money.

Microsoft controls 90% of the world market. From that standpoint,
Apple is an alternative even if their business plan is still from the
1970s.
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Wow you are more clueless than I thought
bobiroc 3rd Dec 2009
"...to replacement parts only coming from Apple to computers only
coming from Apple etc."

Nearly every major PC manufacturer in the world does this.

But no one does it to the extreme Apple does. I can go to a computer shop and just buy a Hard Drive and in most cases a Power Supply, ROM Drives and most major components aside from the system board and put it in many OEM PCs. Heck I have done it countless times before.

Apple sued the company for making a product that was virtually
identical to their own product. This is called protecting intellectual
property. Apple didn't sue them for making power adapters, they
sued them for making one that looked nearly identical to Apple's. The
other company is perfectly able to make power adapters so long as
they don't look like Apple's; they just have to change how it looks.

Well then they should sue everybody that makes a computer. Psystar's cases do not resemble Apple's cases anymore than any other OEM. I think they look more like ACER or dell to be honest. And as far as the internal components go those are the same as any other OEM too. Just shows how some people can be focused on looks. "Well it looks different so therefore it must be different".

So I agree with blittrell that Apple is very much like IBM was back in the day. Apple runs the show and they will tell you what you can choose. You can say that you can run all these other OSes on an Apple but what if I do not want to spend $2500+ on a MacPro and an integrated iMac is not for me. What if I want a nice $1200 - $1500 computer that has plenty of power and expansion and I can run Windows as my Primary OS and then have virtual Machines for any other OS. I cannot legally run a VM of MacOS so if I have to support a student on MacOS I have to go down to the Mac Lab and interrupt a class when it would be so much easier to fire up the VM like I do for Windows XP, Ubuntu and other OSes while Running Windows 7 as my primary OS. But Apple says I cannot do that even if I pay for a copy of their OS so what Apple says is the law
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Speaking of clueless:
jragosta 3rd Dec 2009
"But no one does it to the extreme Apple does. I can go to a computer
shop and just buy a Hard Drive and in most cases a Power Supply,
ROM Drives and most major components aside from the system board
and put it in many OEM PCs. Heck I have done it countless times
before."

Please stop discussing topics you know nothing about.

You can buy a generic hard drive and it will work in Macs.

You can't get a generic power supply, but it's almost never needed -
because Macs have a big enough power supply when they're shipped,
unlike most PCs which have woefully undersized power supplies.

You can upgrade the CPU on some Macs. You can upgrade the video
card on the Mac Pro. You can add the overwhelming majority of USB
devices to Macs.
0 Votes
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You can do the same with Macintosh...
olePigeon 3rd Dec 2009
"I can go to a computer shop and just buy a Hard Drive and in most
cases a Power Supply, ROM Drives and most major components aside
from the system board and put it in many OEM PCs. Heck I have done
it countless times before."

You can do the same with Macintosh.

"Well then they should sue everybody that makes a computer.
Psystar's cases do not resemble Apple's cases anymore than any other
OEM."

You just contradicted yourself in two sentences. If the case doesn't
look anything like Apple's, there's no reason for Apple to sue. No one
makes a computer that looks even remotely like Apple computers.
There was one exception, and that was back in 1998 when eMachines
released a computer nearly identical to the original iMac. eMachines
was sued and forced to take that particular computer off the market;
not because they simply made a computer, but they made one that
looked nearly identical to the iMac.

"And as far as the internal components go those are the same as any
other OEM too."

Yes and no. Components very in cost based on fault tolerance and
random sampling. There is such a thing as "better built," even if it
comes from the same company in China.

I'd encourage you to go to an Apple Store some time and actually get
an upclose look at a Mac Pro. There is a world of difference between a
Dell and an Apple, and I'm not talking about price. Even some of the
most staunch anti-Apple trolls on this forum admit to Apple
producing top notch hardware, even if they don't appreciate the
software.

"So I agree with blittrell that Apple is very much like IBM was back in
the day."

Except they aren't, because of how open the PC market is.

"I have to support a student on MacOS I have to go down to the Mac
Lab and interrupt a class when it would be so much easier to fire up
the VM like I do for Windows XP..."

First, I'm trying to think of a situation where you not having a Mac
would prevent you from helping a student.

In any event, you have a few options: one, you could use a VNC client
to control a Mac from your PC without interrupting anyone; two, you
can buy a Mac mini for relatively cheap and toggle between your PC
and Mac mini with a simple KVM switch, you don't have to buy a Mac
Pro or an iMac; and three, you're allowed to install Mac OS X on your
PC if you want to dual boot. This may not be as efficient as a virtual
machine or even a KVM, but it works.

Secondly, OS X is written under the assumption that it will be run on
an Apple computer. If you install it on unsupported hardware, there's
no guarantee you'll be able to help anyone because of unforeseen
incompatibilities between the software and hardware.

You are allowed to virtualize OS X, but only on Apple hardware.
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What on earth are you talking about???!!!???
NonZealot 3rd Dec 2009
Even some of the most staunch anti-Apple trolls on this forum admit to Apple
producing top notch hardware, even if they don't appreciate the software.

No they don't. wink
0 Votes
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blittrell == stupidity in my opinion
i8thecat Updated - 3rd Dec 2009
Take any business class and you will see that Apple is so far from OLD Blue that it's not even funny...

Open your eyes and you can see the same...

Business models are completely different...

Business strategies are completely different...

Heck.. Even ask any child and they can tell you the two are nothing alike... Now that is a different perspective...

And as far as control goes... Damn you are stupid... Name one company that doesn't control their product... Name one company that doesn't see their product the way they want... Come on.. I'm waiting... Yeah.. Didn't think you gave your moronic claim any real thought...

IBM lost because they were agonizingly slow, stupid, and greedy. How is Apple like that?

And as far as the 1984 Mac commercial... In that analogy "Big Brother" controlled and opressed the entire world... And that's how you see Apple???

Lame try troll-boi... Put yer crash helmet back on, here comes the short bus... You get to take a ride. Buh-Bye...
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Apple is right!
david@... 3rd Dec 2009
Look, D.T. it is not YOUR software. It is Apple's software. Read the
frickin' license agreement. You buy the right to run the software on a
supported apple computer. That is all!

0 Votes
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Some see it a bit different
bobiroc 3rd Dec 2009
now that the game has changed. At one time the hardware in an Apple was completely different and that argument would fly but now that an Apple computer is the same or very similar to most of the computers sold in the world I cannot see how they can stick to this. Aside from the EFI they run the same Intel Processors, The Same Intel Chipsets, The Same ATI/Nvidia/Intel GPUs, same SATA Hard Drives, etc... so some feel that it is just another brand of PC and Apple is choosing to lock their OS even though it can run on the same hardware not ASSEMBLED by them. I guess some people view it as why is Apple allowed to put artificial restrictions on their stuff and when other companies do it they get hit with an Antitrust lawsuit. Then some will argue because Apple has a different business model and they are not really in direct competition with other OEMs or with Microsoft and to that I say BS.
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You call BS
oncall 3rd Dec 2009
And apparently Psystar tried to as well. The courts saw it differently and theirs is the opinion that matters. Thing is, as an individual you can go make your own little Hackintosh in your own little garage and will be essentially ignored. The moment a company does this, and tries to turn a profit doing so, they are going to be in court, and lose.

Don't feel sorry for Psystar. If they had consulted even half competent legal council before starting (and they most likely did) they would have known what was at risk. It was a gamble, they saw a BIG payday in the unlikely event that they had won. They lost, thank you for playing.
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Well the courts do not exactly get everything right..
bobiroc 3rd Dec 2009
...do they? Criminals go free everyday and money buys decisions. I mean they let OJ go free and let some lady win Millions of Dollars for being a clumsy ass and spilling hot coffee on herself despite the Hot Liquid Warnings. And that is just a couple.
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No they don't
oncall Updated - 3rd Dec 2009
I will agree. But that's really not relevant here is it? As someone who has spent 10's of thousands of my personal dollars defending against a completely baseless lawsuit that was won in "summary judgment" I know first hand how ridiculously expensive legal fees are, and I am not even a minor corporation. So yeah, whatever Apple can get from Psystar, good. It probably won't even cover Apple's legal expenses.

Anybody with half a brain knew Psystar was taking a BIG legal gamble, HUGE. Had they won, a huge payday. But they lost. That's why big companies with a lot to lose (Dell, HP, Sony) won't touch this. Because, assuming Apple didn't crucify the CEO's their shareholders would for being so blatantly irresponsible.
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Only in America...
yschoo1@... 3rd Dec 2009
I can see clearly now. My Motorola-clad MacMini is truly a gem and a collector entity now.
0 Votes
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Psystar's counter suit not allowed to be argued
djchandler 3rd Dec 2009
If you read the judge's decision, you would know that the counter suit was dismissed at the same time as the summary judgement was made at Apple's behest and in their favor. The counter suit was rendered irrelevant due to the manner in which these clowns managed their production methods.

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091114101637997
http://www.groklaw.net/pdf2/Psystar-214.pdf

Psystar wanted to call the Apple EULA into question, but never got the chance due to their own incompetence. This was mismanaged by Psystar all the way around, especially when you consider that there's a method to actually install unaltered OS X on a generic PC. They chose not to follow that procedure in their production method and got caught doing something they really shouldn't have. Those people really aren't too bright.
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No BS... just a BD,,,
Bright Ideas 3rd Dec 2009
BIG DIFFERENCE in the way those "same parts" are put together inside
that nice stainless box. Let me put it to you in a way your small mind
might understand... Which would you rather live in... a house built by
skilled tradesmen, or a house built by day laborers who don't speak
English and can't tell you the difference between a screwdriver and a
level. And before you start squawking about that... I know quite a few
former Dell and HP employees who tell me that quality control is NOT
tops on the list of important things at EITHER of those companies.
Bottom line is more important. On the other hand... those who work
in Apple's plant have to be pried from their positions with crowbars.
They are paid VERY well, and receive bonuses when consumer issues
with hardware are kept at a low minimum.
0 Votes
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Its all about the packaging then
bobiroc Updated - 3rd Dec 2009
Put it in a shiny case and call it different. Sorry but you may think I have a small mind but I have been to Dell's assembly plant in Texas and they do put a high level of importance on quality control. I have not been to Apple's because it is in China and the internal components from the processor and motherboard to the ram and hard drives all made by third party companies assembled in China. I never said Apple does not make high quality computers because they do but so do other companies and one can build a very high quality computer just the same. If you mean to say the motherboards made for Dell by Intel (usually) and for HP by ASUS (usually) are lower quality than the boards made for apple then you are wrong. So maybe your simple mind can grasp the concept that it is the same components on the inside and that Apple is far from having issues. They have experienced heat issues, battery issues (also made by third party), and DOA issues just like the rest of them. In my 8 years working as a System Admin for a large High School I can count on 1 hand how many DOA Dells I have had and I can do the same for apple. The difference is we have over 2500 Dells and about 120 Macs and we buy hundreds of Dells each year and replace the Macs only every 3 - 5 years. Basically we cycle down the old Dells that are 5 - 7 years old and replace them as we do the Macs.

If the shiny stainless case is important to you I can take a dump and put it in a shiny stainless case but it would change the fact that it is the same **** inside.
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I would second that..
yschoo1@... 3rd Dec 2009
My experience with my non-intel MacMini is that it would occasionally freeze-up for no reason and that all I need to do is just reboot the machine, no bsod! The only trouble is I might lose those unsaved files. That's a royal pain. I'm still searching for a fail-safe way to install Ubuntu 9.10 or LinuxMint to replace the OSX, any suggestion?
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Well that shows you haven't used Windows
bobiroc 3rd Dec 2009
at least in the past 4 - 6 years. Even before Vista Microsoft's error recovery has improved but I still do not understand why so many people focus on a BSOD. Because other OSes have a different type of stop error? What does MacOS do when a hard drive ceases? Show a gray screen with a sad Apple on it?
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I think you proved D.T.'s point
NonZealot Updated - 3rd Dec 2009
Look, D.T. it is not YOUR software. It is
Apple's software.

I think that is precisely his point. happy

He isn't saying Apple isn't allowed to do this,
he is simply saying that you shouldn't put up
with it.

Note that I don't necessarily agree with him
and if you are happy putting up with Apple's
restrictions, go for it. There are alternatives
though.
0 Votes
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RE: Psystar pulls Mac-clone line from online store
holeshot@... 4th Dec 2009
An Apple Mac any more stable than my "Jackintosh"? The Intel C2Q 9400 I have running on a Gigabyte motherboard courtesy of Rebel EFI runs fast, stable and cool. As to choice, I choose to run OS X on my own hardware just as some people choose to run linux on a PS3 or linksys router. The notion of vendors locking us into choices that they make is abhorrent in a free society. The real problem here is that the hardware manufacturer is the software manufacturer. Suppose Redmond bought Dell and AMD. Hmmm, forget that we'd all run linux or OS X on Intel.

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