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Hardware 2.0

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Six Android issues that Google doesn't want to address

By | December 7, 2011, 12:05pm PST

Summary: Size (of the market share) isn’t everything

Google executive chairman Eric Schmidt, there’s no doubt as to who’s winning the mobile war.

“Android is ahead of the iPhone now,” Schmidt told an audience at LeWeb in Paris. The room fell silent and Schmidt had to explain:

“Unit volume, Ice Cream Sandwich, the price is lower, there are more vendors.”

Currently there are some 200 million Android devices in circulation with some 550,000 being added daily, but Schmidt thinks that Android 4.0 (aka Ice Cream Sandwich) will give Android an extra boost, both in terms of sales and developer interest.

“Ultimately, application vendors are driven by volume, and volume is favored by the open approach Google is taking. There are so many manufacturers working to deliver Android phones globally,” Schmidt said. “Whether you like Android or not, you will support that platform, and maybe you’ll even deliver it first.”

[UPDATE: Here's what Schmidt actually said: 'Whether you like ICS or not, and again I like it a great deal, you will want to develop for that platform, and perhaps even first.']

But is size everything?  Getting Ice Cream Sandwich out of the door and onto handsets is only part of the equation. Let’s take a look at some of the challenges facing Android that Google doesn’t seem willing to address:

  1. What about updates? Data pulled together by Michael DeGusta back in October showed how seven of the eighteen Android phones had never run a current version of the Android OS, and how most current Android handsets will never see the Ice Cream Sandwich update.
  2. Android handsets also top the hardware failure listwith 14% of all Android support calls related to hardware failures. These Android device returns alone is costing mobile operators a staggering $2 billion per year
  3. Then there’s the problem with apps. A sucky game is one thing, but what about the free Android anti-malware scanners ‘near to useless,’ with most products achieving 0% detection rate? Also, despite security researcher claiming that Android is not the major target for malware, Chris DiBona, Open Source Programs Manager at Google, continues to refer to security firms that warn of Android malware as ‘charlatans and scammers.’
  4. What about Flash support? Currently there’s no Flash plugin for Ice Cream Sandwich, and after this update is released, that’s it from Adobe. No more.
  5. While Google continues to offer Android to handset makers free of charge (don’t worry, Google still pulls in some $2.5 billion a year from ads displayed on Android devices), patent issues mean that handset OEMs are having to hand over millions of dollars every year to Microsoft. The only company that seems to be willing to leap to Android’s defense is Barnes & Noble.
  6. Oh, and there’s also that issue of bloatware installed by the handset manufacturers is making Android insecure. And that whole CarrierIQ thing.

I’d like to see Google put a little effort into addressing these issue. I know that the size of market share is important, but I think that these issues are also important for both Android users and handset makers.

If you’re an Android user, what issues matter to you?

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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RE: Six Android issues that Google doesn't want to address
non-biased 15th Dec
@geolemon I started off reading you response but it only took a sentence or two before I realized you either don't get it or won't let yourself admit the truth because of your hatred for Apple. On percentage the compete opposite is true about being able to upgrade. On sheer numbers more Android devices might get the opportunity to upgrade but not on a percentage basis like you said. The difference in upgrades between Android and iOS is that any iOS device release in the past at least two years can be upgraded and is offered the upgrade. On Android it might not ever become available for a device released a month earlier. You might try to argue that you can root it but jail breaking was never allowed as a valid argument for iOS so you can't have it both ways. I upgraded my 3G to iOS 4 and with some very minor tweaks it was just fine. Then you ask what this has to do with Android which just shows you completely missed the point. The point was how Google needs to put pressure on the OEMs and carriers to correct these issues.
1,2,3, and 6 were definitely factors when I decided to go iPhone after the most recent failure by RIM. Android has some cool stuff going on, but there are a lot of concerns about how the platform is managed.
@ncted What failure by RIM?

The new BlackBerry phones and the Playbook are wonderful and still much more productive than an iPhone.
@John Hanks worldwide server outages. repeat of a year before.
#1. Many people don't bother upgrading even if it is available. Many just don't care about grabbing the update like a crazed fanatic. If it works ... why update? Then again, Apple has the same issue that older hardware can't support the new OS yet it isn't being declared a problem for them. Android simply has way more phones out there so for them there's more models affected that people can point at and go "look look!".

#2. Hardware quality is not Google's responsibility and they shouldn't be expected to fix it. If Apple didn't make their own hardware they'd be in the same boat.

#3. Is that the malware available from sketchy websites being Google's fault?

#4. Google can't force Adobe to keep developing flash. Get over it. Unless you're shitting on every phone OS for this issue you're padding your list.

#5. And? Your point is? What MS does, and what deals they reach, is not Google's responsibility. Since the manufacturer's haven't dropped Android I can only assume they're making good money overall.

#6. CarrierIQ wasn't a Google responsibility and neither is bloatware. Even Apple was using CarrierIQ and that was clearly their choice.
@Ididar

This is why things will never get fixed....google doesn't have to take responsibility for anything because no one expects them to.

That's why android is the way it is.

Google passes the buck onto the OEMs because it's 'free', when the OEMs get hauled into court for 'IP theft' due to android functionality on a mobile handset google provides no indemnification.

It all comes down to one simple, but important reason....

Android users aren't Googles customer. They, or at least their personal info, their data, their 'digital DNA' if you will, are simply the crop that is harvested for Googles real customer....Advertisers.
@exspyguy
You basically laid out why Google has nothing to do with the list above and they shouldnt. Most of what was stated above are either carrier or manufacture issues not android or gogle. I havent seen a failed android phone yet and I do repair and refurbs as my business. i do get tons of iphone ipods and ipads in though very fragile devices. On iphones it mostly digitizers, batteries, and ear phone jacks...ipods are same hardware issues and ipads usualy broken lcds and dented backs... The carrierIQ which is all the providers install i dislike the no opt out option but I removed it from my evo last week takes about 3 minutes to do.Updates for android are given but carriers drag their feet adding their crap before releasing but if it was arrainged that google could release just os updates that dont have to have carrier bloatware it would be very fast..flash well thats all adobe as all mobile devices will have to deal with it...So really the list above should be labeled 6 carrier.manufactures or android device issues as they all have nothing to do with google. Thats like being made at walmart because your chevy car engine is acting up.
@Fletchguy Based on your post history it's very unlikely that anybody apart from Apple haters are going to believe anything you say in regard to Apple products. While the list isn't items that Google currently has control over that was the point, Google needs to push the OEMs and the carrier's to step up their game.
@Ididar
1. The iPhone 3GS from over two years ago runs the latest iOS. There are Android phones as young as nine months that don't have the latest upgrade. Big difference - that's why it isn't being declared as a problem for Apple.a

2. You're right, it isn't Google's responsibility. But if customers jump ship, then they jump ship. And well, Apple isn't in the same boat. "If Apple didn't make their own hardware" is irrelevant. And who cares? This is a discussion of Android, not Apple.

3. You seem to be obsessed with whose fault it is. That doesn't matter. It looks bad for the Android platform, so it looks bad for Google. Nobody else but Google is in a position to fix it.

4. Agreed. Flash is irrelevant. I'm sure you said that even when Adobe supported it, right?

5. The point is hardware manufacturers have a choice - if Android costs them too much money, they might switch to something else.

6. Again, irrelevant whose fault it was? It's who it looks bad on that's important. And Apple's carrierIQ was paltry compared to Androids, since you insist on comparing them. Apple only collected memory and usage statistics, but not identifiable information, unlike on Android.
@hayesk and your facts come from .....????
@hayesk

MY ipad 1 alsof runs ios5 but I would love the choice of going back to ios4.
It's soo slow. With android I just load a custom romantic on it. Not with Apple.

I also have Friends with the third generation ipod touch, it's even slower as my ipad, so you think it's good to force customers into something? (you can't go back without shsh blobs)
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@hayesk
1. there are android devices designed specifically to not run the newest updates, because it is CHEAPER! not everyone wants to spend $200+ on a new device, the only way to offer a $650 phone for less than $100 is to SKIMP ON THE HARDWARE. I really get pissed off at people for this issue. it is the main reason Android is doing so WELL. They have VARIETY. You don't have to spend your ENTIRE paycheck to get a cell phone (unlocked) you can get one at half the price or less, and imaging that, it does less! This is like people complaining that they bought a smart car and they can't fit all 6 of the their kids in it with the 3 dogs 7 cats 4 gerbils 2 snakes and a flying squirrel when they go on vacation across the country on a single tank of gas for a 3 week vacation! my answer to that is "No (rhymes with the past tense of light...)". Maybe you should have bought one of those two story bright red tour buses they use in England... another good (most likely better) example is buying a 25 year old 13" black and white TV and complaining that Avatar in 3D doesn't look very good on it! get a brain people. Vendor issue, not the OS.

2. have you ever heard of Toyota? how about Ford? again, vendor issue, not the OS

3. I have not had any malware on my phone, I've been using Android for just over 2 years now, I think most apps are malware in the sense that they do whatever they can to get information from you that they can use to make money. You don't find that on iOS because Apple already has your entire life in it's database. Google can do something about this, but it would require them to hire a testing team and demand all apps provide source code instead of compiled binaries for the market, and let google compile the code after testing it. Then you will have a long delay before any apps hit the market.

4. Flash will be around on the internet for another 20 years, there are too many websites that are not maintained, or were built using a hosting companies "auto site builder software" and the owner has no idea how to fix it, update it, or do anything else. Most don't care either. another issue, not up to google.

5. there is a reason it is the handset vendors going to court over this, and not google, has something to do with the USA's crappy law system...

6. Carrier IQ was on nearly every single phone OS, and it doesn't matter what Apple was collecting with it, the owner of said software had a backdoor setup to retrieve all the data directly without the hardware vendors support. This is why Apple ditched them, the software did not meet their code required for all applications that run on iOS. Not valid here, also from what I understand it is not found on Google Phones, only other handset manufacturers devices, so again, not a Google issue, take it up with the hardware vendors and service carriers.


so in the end, your only valid point here is #3 malware on the Android Market, not an easy issue to resolve and not something worth the expense at this point, unless all the lawsuits magically disappear.
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@hayesk 4. Agreed. Flash is irrelevant. I'm sure you said that even when Adobe supported it, right?
Yeah, I have been wondering what tune all those that said Apples lack of Flash support was killing iOS are going to be singing now.

@Florejaen My wife's iPad 1 runs faster with iOS5 and her 3GS does as well but that is really irrelevant because your iPad didn't come with iOS5 and nobody forced you to upgrade.
@Ididar
Its not about who fault it is....its about whether that results in developers not supporting the platform.
@Ididar #3. Funny how MS always gets the blame for malware and virus vulnerabilities. Why shouldn't Google be treated the same.
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You never used Linux did you? nt
Joe.Smetona 8th Dec
@compsrt
@compsrt: It depends on if the vast majority of the malware has gotten in thanks to vulnerabilities or through tricking users.
@Ididar

"Then again, Apple has the same issue that older hardware can't support the new OS yet it isn't being declared a problem for them."

As hayesk points out, generally speaking Apple does support older hardware than Android. Granted, if you go too far back, you will still reach a point of no more updates, however that's the case for any hardware capable of runnning a full OS.

"If Apple didn't make their own hardware they'd be in the same boat."

Which is precisely why Apple makes their own hardware.

"#3. Is that the malware available from sketchy websites being Google's fault?"

Which is why I prefer the app store model. It's not perfect, but it's much better.

"#4. Google can't force Adobe to keep developing flash. Get over it. Unless you're shitting on every phone OS for this issue you're padding your list."

Agreed.

"#5. And? Your point is? What MS does, and what deals they reach, is not Google's responsibility. Since the manufacturer's haven't dropped Android I can only assume they're making good money overall."

Agreed.

"#6. CarrierIQ wasn't a Google responsibility and neither is bloatware. Even Apple was using CarrierIQ and that was clearly their choice. "

Although Apple was already beginning to pull away from it before the news hit. Apparently they were wise enough to see the problems coming.
@Ididar

In regard to #1, it doesn't seem many people are even given the opportunity, since it's entirely (short of rooting) dictated by Android OEMs and/or carriers. "If it works, why update?" Security, stability and new features for starters. After all, don't we hear every day from the Android advocates here how the next version of Android is the greatest thing since sliced bread?

The fact that Android OEMs and the carriers are so slow to make updates available is telling. They don't view there to be any incentive to release updates, because it may delay you from buying a new phone (and renewing your contact in the process). It amazes me how much crap Apple got for only making Siri (in beta, mind you) available only on the 4S, even when they made iOS 5 available for older iPhones. They were accused of doing it simply to force users to buy the 4S, yet here we have Android OEMs and carriers by and large intentionally ignoring Android OS upgrades.

Whether you want to admit it or not, Apple got this right. The kept the control over whether and when to update or not in their users hands. And regardless of your perception of their support of older devices, New versions of iOS are generally pretty compatible with older devices.

And to pre-empt the "but Android users can always root and use any version they want" argument, I am very confident in speculating that of all Androids sold, the number that are rooted lie in the single digit %. A large majority of Android users don't have the slightest clue on how to root, nor the b***s to try.
@Ididar
"Hardware quality is not Google's responsibility and they shouldn't be expected to fix it. If Apple didn't make their own hardware they'd be in the same boat."
You are correct but Google gets the blame. I have seen it 1st hand, and like it or not and it's a bitter pill to swallow, Google gets the blame for most of these. And yes they know it.
@ItsTheBottomLine
People will tend to associate problems with it.
@Ididar Based on your response it doesn't matter what is presented, you will just give Google a pass on it. I also have to laugh that you try to compare brand new phones not getting the latest version to Apple not supporting phones released over two years earlier with their latest version. Are you honestly that blinded by your fandroid delusions that you can't see the difference?
Android Handsets offer choice. They work great. Why does everyone care so much about having the latest version of Android as soon as it comes out? Not one of my friends even cares. Its only the super techies that care and they root and do it themselves anyway. The hardware problems are not Googles foult, that is the handset manufacturers. Flash, does anyone really care... really??

The app issue is valid. Not sure if there is a short term solution to that other than watch the permissions being asked by the apps.

Me & my whole family use Android on phones & tablets & we love it.
@tgschmidt For a lot of users updates aren't an issue because they have never been offered one so they don't think about it. I know none techie Android and iPhone users that want the latest version when it comes out. The difference is that usually the Android users are bitching that they can't get it due to knowing nothing about rooting the device.

Does anybody care about Flash? I know I don't but but the Fandroids have been bashing the iPhone for how long about it's lack of Flash support, it's always been one of the top talking point items.

I am glad that you and your wife love your Android devices, that's all that matters. It amazes me how many people around here get so bent out of shape when somebody likes something different than they do.
1) Many have accepted that running an android device means rooting it and running Cyanogen. Versions are simply a way to give greedy phone ISP's a way to feel "in control" - Eventually Verizon and AT&T will get smacked down and this type of issue will stop.
2) Hardware is getting progressively better and while the failure rate is high, the cost makes it mute. One can buy 6 $75 tablets for teh cost of one iPad.
3) Nobody actually thinks android devices can get viruses or malware, if your installing this type of software on an Android phione you've been living under a rock.
4) As long as Flash works on Linux it will work in some fashion on android, even if you have to Root the phone. Regardless, flash is quickly going away and HTML5 is becoming the new standard. If trends change, Adobe will make a flash for android; to not do so would be to loose a valuable means of promoting their product.
5) Thanks to Barnes and Nobles telling everyone just what game MS is playing, few will continue to cower to gestapo courtroom tactics and pointless patents. Microsoft extorting revenue on Android is short term. It hasn't effected growth and eventually HTC, etc. will get tired of paying MS for nothing.
6) Similarly is resolved by Cyanogen, most people know you get an Android phone you root an Android phone. Versioning only gives the manufacturer an illution of control.
@Socratesfoot

So you have to hack your phone to make it work and run the latest OS.

No thanks, I'll go back to my iPhone. Even my wife's 2.5 year old 3GS got the 5.0 upgrade. My DroidX won't even see Ice Cream Sandwich....
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Your 3GS can run all of iOS 5?
toddybottom 7th Dec
@itguy10
I doubt it. Siri has been disabled on all devices that don't identify themselves as iPhone 4S. Since Siri is a major feature of iOS 5, you are running iOS 5 lite.

This reminds me a lot of the Vista Capable "fiasco". People were shocked, SHOCKED that their old PCs couldn't take advantage of every new feature in Vista like Aero since Aero required a capable graphics card.

iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4 are iOS 5 "capable". You and I are restricted to running iOS 5 Basic. We are not allowed to run iOS 5 Ultimate.
@toddybottom
>>iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4 are iOS 5 "capable". You and I are restricted to running iOS 5 Basic. We are not allowed to run iOS 5 Ultimate.
+1
"Siri has been disabled on all devices that don't identify themselves as iPhone 4S. Since Siri is a major feature of iOS 5, you are running iOS 5 lite."

I'm very much enjoying the new notification center. And there's always vlingo if I really want to talk to my phone. Not that I want to talk to my phone much anyways.
Yeah she didn't get Siri but there is more to iOS 5 than Siri and IIRC she got them all.

Unlike me who on my 1.5 year old Droid X (Got it on launch day) I'll probably never see ICS from Motorola or Verizon and will be stuck with the POS Gingerbread "upgrade".
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Just curious, why IS Siri limited to the 4S? Is that a technical constraint, e.g. there's something hardware-wise on the 4S that limits use? Or is it solely an arbitrary decision on Apple's part? And if the latter, is it permanent, or will Siri be permitted on less-recent models at some point?

Hope it's a technical limitation - I just hate it when companies artificially limit features just to line their pockets. (of course, Google did that with Honeycomb, limiting it to dual-processor devices, didn't it? Or was that an actual technical limitation? Maybe it was a concession to the OEMs. In any case, glad to see it's not a limitation with ICS).
@daboochmeister My guess is that the limit on Siri to the 4S is temporary. It is currently in Beta for so limiting it to one model is a smart move. Siri needed far greater testing than any single company could provide so they released it as a Beta to one device to complete that testing. I suspect this spring or summer Siri will come out of Beta and become available on other devices such as all versions of the iPad and at least the latest if not last two versions of the Touch. Probably won't become available for the 3GS as the 5 will be coming and the 3GS will be discontinued. Could be wrong but that is how I suspect things to go.
@Socratesfoot

In what world? The word "most" implies over 50%. I doubt even 10% "know" this.
@Socratesfoot

siri isnt part of ios5, nor was 'she' ever mentioned as a feature that would set ios5 apart from earlier iterations. siri is a feature of the iphone 4s, since its one of the only 2 things that distinguish the 4s from the 4. (the other being the processor)

just because i dont have siri doesnt mean i'm running ios5 'lite'. lol thats the silliest thing i've heard this week.

and who do you mean by 'most people know running an android device means rooting it?' maybe THATS the silliest thing i've heard all week. sure the techie nerd, which i consider myself to be as well, will do that, but i shouldnt have to go through the trouble to make my fragmented as hell os work properly.

android has some great aces in the hole, but overall, its not as cohesive as ios. and it all comes down to the handset makers getting involved. why do you think samsung and google put so much emphasis on how the galaxy nexus and ics are 'made for eachother' blah blah blah? because thats how you avoid crashing, poor battery life, bloatware, fragmentation, and all the other issues that plague most android devices.
@eldaino

Perhaps you would like to think of it as iOS Home Basic? where you couldnt get the main draw of Windows Vista because you didnt pay enough?
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@bean520 "Perhaps you would like to think of it as iOS Home Basic? where you couldnt get the main draw of Windows Vista.."

Rubbish. iOS 5 can do everything on an iPhone 3GS that it can on a 4S, except use voice recognition: on a 3GS you type while on a 4S you talk.

Unlike the various flavours of VistaThere is no difference in the capabilities of iOS 5 on different models of i-devices.


@lapland_lapin If you are going to call me a "liar" then you should be very sure of your facts. As things stand, I think your post is overly simplistic.

@toddybottom claimed that the difference between iOS 5 on an iPhone 3GS or iPhone 4 (or 5/3GS+4 for short) and on an iPhone 4S (5/4S for short)
was "reminiscent" of the difference between Vista Basic and Vista Ultimate.

@Rama.NET reiterated this claim, writing that 5/3GS+4 was "iOS Basic" whereas 5/4S was "iOS Ultimate," again drawing a parallel with Vista Home Basic and Vista Ultimate. He also implied that the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4 may be capable of running "iOS Ultimate" but had been arbitrarily limited.

@bean520 repeated this silliness saying 5/3GS+4 should be thought of as Vista Home Basic "where you didn't get the main draw of Windows Vista."

Then you chipped in, saying that I'm "equivocating" about whether 5/3GS+4 and 5/4S are the same.

Obviously, the 3GS+4 iPhones have different hardware capabilities from the 4S iPhone: most reviews say the iPhone 4S has the best still and HD video camera available on any phone from any manufacturer; it has a dual-core processor and a faster graphics chip that can drive an HDTV directly, using just a cheap adapter and a standard HDMI cable.

When it come to how iOS 5 runs on iPhones, the only difference that I'm aware of is that iOS 5 on the iPhone 4S has ubiquitous voice recognition and Siri, which is a way of invoking iOS 5 applications (with data) and doing Wolfram Alpha and Google searches (with data) using natural language voice recognition and commands.

The iPhone 4S is a beautiful and very powerful phone and the (Beta) Siri service does free people from the rather cramped keyboard, improving their productivity, but this does NOT make iOS 5 on older phones anything like Vista Home Basic. Imagine these scenarios.

1) If you disable Siri on an iPhone 4S (it takes about three clicks) you can still schedule appointments, add contacts and search Wolfram Alpha and Google with the keyboard. It's not as convenient, but people have been very, very happy with iPhones long before Siri appeared.

(Siri is only available in English, French and German-speaking countries, so every iPhone 4S sold in countries speaking other languages has Siri effectively disabled.)

2) In contrast, if you took a suitably fast PC and replaced Vista Ultimate with Vista Home Basic you would lose: Windows Meeting Space, Media Centre, DVD Maker, Movie Maker, Windows Fax and Scan, Remote Desktop support, BitLocker drive encryption, the ability to use a second screen, Scheduled Backups with Complete PC Backup/Restore and the Vista games package. And the Aero interface.

Adding insult to injury, if you already owned a PC running Windows XP, you would have to pay money to get all the 'benefits' of Vista Home Basic. In contrast, anyone with an iPhone 4 or an iPhone 3GS gets iOS 5 as a free upgrade.

To say that there "is no difference in the capabilities [i.e. what you can do] on iOS 5 on different i-devices," so long as you bear in mind that on the iPhone 3GS and 4 you'll have to type rather than talk, might be slight hyperbole, but it is not a lie.

To say that the difference in the capabilities of
- iOS 5 running on the iPhone 3GS and 4 verses iOS 5 on an iPhone 4S
is comparable to the difference in the the capabilities of
- a PC running Vista Home Basic verses a faster PC running Vista Ultimate (or even Home Premium)
is so absurd that it does look like a lie to me.

On a final, speculative note, I wonder whether real-time voice-to-text conversion is possible on the single-core CPUs used in the iPhone 3GS and 4. I even wonder whether it's possible on the iPhone 4S's dual ARM chips, without the assistance of the more powerful GPU (in a GPGPU capacity) built into the 4S. I would be interested in some investigation of this.
@StandardPerson
It may be that iOS CAN do everything on a 3GS, but the question is whether it DOES do everything. And the answer is no. Siri is a HUGE selling point for iOS 5. Huge. Entire advertising campaigns were built around it. There's no doubt that it's a major draw for Apple.

So when you try to equivocate and say that there is no difference, you're simply lying. Either there is a difference, or there isn't. And right now there is. It may be that later on, in a few months, Apple will deploy Siri across all iOS lines. But it's just not the case at the moment.
@lapland_lapin Either stop the BS or post links to the supposed advertising campaigns for iOS5 built around Siri. Go ahead, go out and find them. We aren't talking about 4S ads, you specifically said iOS 5. Nobody is disputing that it's a selling point for the 4S but it is not a selling point for iOS5. How could it be a selling point when they give iOS 5 away for free.
@Socratesfoot "One can buy 6 $75 tablets for teh cost of one iPad."

There is no such thing as a $75 tablet.

So far, no company has been able to build a tablet that's comparable with the iPad that costs less than the iPad.
@lapland_lapin @ "Siri is a HUGE selling point for iOS 5. Huge. Entire advertising campaigns were built around it."

That foolish statement shows you're nothing but an Apple hater! ios 5, didn't cost anything. Siri, was the selling point for the iPhone 4S. Try to keep youur Ihate attitude out of conversations, otherwise you just lose all credibility; as you just did.
@Socratesfoot

So what you're saying is that Android stock from the carrier isn't good enough and that you have to perform a potentially warranty voiding action in order to make it acceptable?

I can buy 26,000 matchbox cars for the price of a real car, but none of them will get me very far on the road. The "I can buy X non-iPads for the cost of 1 iPad" statements are truly stupid. If the $75 tablet has a battery that dies in an hour, is slow at just about everything, has no good app support, lousy build quality and stops working quite easily, what good is it if you can have 6 of them?
@tk_77

"what good is it if you can have 6 of them? "
- yes there are.. specially to people who doesn't earn as much as you do, but still has the interest on tech.

"is slow at just about everything, has no good app support, lousy build quality and stops working quite easily, what good is it if you can have 6 of them?"

- I assume your talking about the low end entry level android phones that "exactly" gives you what they "basically" says. And yet you can tweak it a little more in order to classify them as mid-range smartphones.. Like G5(Sent by the Gods.. ^^)

- Oh and the GSII and Droid RAZR are still cheaper compared to your Stock Car. Can you please test drive them, and if you have time, kindly apply some turbo chargers on it if you get what I mean.. (root.)
@Papapau ...specially to people who doesn't earn as much as you do, but still has the interest on tech.
How is this any good to them? His example was basically saying that the product won't last so you will have to buy multiple units but you can go through six of them before spending what an iPad would cost. Why waste the $75 if you know it's not going to last long at all.
@Socratesfoot
"most people know you get an Android phone you root an Android phone"

In which universe? No, you're simply wrong. Most people DO NOT know that you get an android with the intention of rooting it. Nor would most people want to, even if they did know. People don't want to have to hack their phones in order to receive updates.
@lapland_lapin I have to agree with you on this. Of course my experience or what I see doesn't mean that's how it is everywhere but 90% of the "techies" I know that love writing code and such have iPhones because they don't want to have to "work" on their phones to get it to do what they want.
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You have a glaring error...
Bruizer 7th Dec
"don???t worry, Google still pulls in some $2.5 billion a year from ads displayed on Android devices"

No. Google is making $2.5 billion from mobile ads displayed on mobile devices. Based on Google's congressional hearing testimony, 2/3 comes from iOS and the other 1/3 comes from Android, Symbian, WinMo, WP7 and RIM.

This is the single biggest thing Google needs to fix about Android. Monetization. Google can not afford to buy every failing Android handset maker like they did with MMI.
@Bruizer
Android benefits Microsoft because they make licensing money from it.

Android benefits Apple because Apple can pretend that they don't have a monopoly (even though they clearly do).

Most of Google's mobile revenue comes from devices that run anything but Android.

If Google killed off Android, it would hurt MS (a competitor to Google) and it would hurt Apple (a competitor to Google). In other words, there is absolutely no disadvantage to killing off Android and 2 major advantages.
@toddybottom

And it almost makes sense. I still think Google's biggest business mistakes will come to its mismanagement of Android.
@toddybottom

How would Google killing Android hurt Apple? Those users have to go somewhere and I'd bet a large bunch would go iPhone. Some visually challenged would go to the fugly Windows Phone 7 so it may break 3% marketshare....
Apple gets to manage its platform tightly because it is not a monopoly. This allows locking out competitors to their iTMS for example. Because they have minority share, it opens up possibilities that players with near monopoly control dont have.

Apple would much rather sell 10,000,000 widgets and make $10/widget than to sell 100,000,000 widgets and make $0.10/widget while being under potential anti-trust regulations.

NOTE: Apple is a monopsony in their supply chain. Single buyer multiple sellers.
@toddybottom - They could. They have been known to just drop something. Engineer it, then move on to the next thing... the beta company at it's best.
@geolemon I started off reading you response but it only took a sentence or two before I realized you either don't get it or won't let yourself admit the truth because of your hatred for Apple. On percentage the compete opposite is true about being able to upgrade. On sheer numbers more Android devices might get the opportunity to upgrade but not on a percentage basis like you said. The difference in upgrades between Android and iOS is that any iOS device release in the past at least two years can be upgraded and is offered the upgrade. On Android it might not ever become available for a device released a month earlier. You might try to argue that you can root it but jail breaking was never allowed as a valid argument for iOS so you can't have it both ways. I upgraded my 3G to iOS 4 and with some very minor tweaks it was just fine. Then you ask what this has to do with Android which just shows you completely missed the point. The point was how Google needs to put pressure on the OEMs and carriers to correct these issues.

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