That SATA cable saga - the aftermath
Summary: Yesterday I pointed to a piece written by HiFi journalist Malcolm Steward (original piece now removed, but it still exists in the Google cache) on something that he dubbed "Super SATA" cables and how replacing the ordinary SATA cables in his NAS box resulted in "easily perceptible improvements." Yesterday Steward pulled the original post and and published a new post which I think makes it worth revisiting this issue.
Yesterday I pointed to a piece written by HiFi journalist Malcolm Steward (original piece now removed, but it still exists in the Google cache) on something that he dubbed "Super SATA" cables and how replacing the ordinary SATA cables in his NAS box resulted in "easily perceptible improvements." Yesterday Steward pulled the original post and and published a new post which I think makes it worth revisiting this issue.
Let's take a look:
I have withdrawn the article that appears to have upset so many computer enthusiasts.
Yeah, well, it would. Any "computer enthusiast" worthy of that title would know that if a SATA cable wasn't faithfully delivering the 0s and 1s from the hard disk to the motherboard, that PC or NAS box isn't going to be getting as far as booting up, let along delivering sub-standard audio.
I realise that the opinion I expressed in it was contentious but the reaction from some individuals was way too extreme. I think that wishing death upon someone because they wrote how they witnessed a change in the way their hi-fi sounded when they swapped a cable in a NAS is a bit of an over-reaction. Anyone in my office, including my wife and children, can read my email and they were not impressed by this and the volume of similarly aggressive correspondance.
This kind of behavior is inexcusable.
I know full well that it is ‘scientifically' not possible for a data cable to exert such influence but I know what we heard and hoped that maybe someone might be able to throw some light on what might be going on.
Problem is, the original article didn't come at the problem from this angle. Instead, it presented these cables as some sort of "wonder SATA cable" that delivered better 0s and 1s to the motherboard. The article fundamentally confused analog and digital data and applied old analog thinking to a digital device.
While a couple of people kindly wrote and did just that most people simply said "It's just ones and noughts, you stupid (expletive)," which wasn't especially helpful.
I've given this some thought, and to be honest I really can't see how these cables make a different. The problem here is that it's easy to fall into the trap of thinking that more expensive is better, which results in confirmation bias. Remove the element of a double-blind test and you have a recipe for wacky conclusions. Maybe the old cables vibrated in some audible way, or maybe one was touching a fan or something, but beyond some mechanical mechanism I can't figure out any reason why the new cables would be better than the old ones (and I don't really believe the whole mechanical mechanism line of thinking either). I certainly can't think of anything that would result in the sorts of celestial improvements that Steward mentioned in his initial post:
The most marked and worthwhile difference, I felt, was in the increased naturalness in both the sound of instruments and voices, which seemed more organic, human and less ‘electronic', and in the music's rhythmical progression, which was also more natural and had the realistic ebb and flow that musicians exhibit when playing live. In short, recordings sounded more like musical performances then recordings.
Anyone got any thoughts?
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Talkback
Agreed...
RE: That SATA cable saga - the aftermath
I don't know, but I'll throw out a thought
Feh.. There may have been some issue with the old cable..
Not a valid comparison
The different categories of Ethernet cabling support different run lengths and signaling rates. If you try to use a lower-rated cable for a long run, you would generally get an intermittent link or no link at all. Both SATA and modern Ethernet protocols are sensitive to packet errors, these errors will usually cause a link reset (interruption) as opposed to continually retrying packets which would be perceived as "slower" performance.
RE: That SATA cable saga - the aftermath
Cat5 is not capable of 1000Mbit as Cat5e or Cat6 is.
RE: That SATA cable saga - the aftermath
I tend to think...
Complete and utter cobblers
00000000
The quantity zero was respresented on my 1990's 16-bit computer as:
0000000000000000
...
Do you want to have a guess at how the quantity zero is represented on my 64-bit computer?
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
You must be a genius!
This quantity is greater than the value of the pseudo-hi-fi 'enthusiasts' who don't understand the concept of digital. In an ideal world they would be driven out of business accompanied by fines for their spread of misinformation.
After the invention of the music compact disk in 1982 the same charlatans postulated that the 'natural' sound of analog and vinyl remained superior to digital.
By 'superior' they meant that we should occasionally represent zero by:
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
You see 1 sounds more natural: it includes the 'warmth' added to the original by:
- obsolete recording, transmission and reproduction equipment
- faulty placement of microphones (i.e. inside the lid of a concert piano instead of in the middle of nice concert hall which would showcase the venues acoustic)
- the impossibility of a stylus on vinyl encompassing the dynamic range of live sound
There are some differences between analog and digital ... but cables isn't one of them.
Put these people in jail unless they can scientifically demonstrate otherwise.
RE: That SATA cable saga - the aftermath
From a professional
Audio writers have long cultivated an attitude of having superior hearing. In the few instances that they submit to blind testing, they haven't done well. Your clothing, what's on your bookshelf, how you're sitting in your chair, minute placement of your speakers: all of these have more effect than the nonsense this character was spouting. Writers of this sort have long been the object of great mirth among those who really know what they're hearing.
RE: That SATA cable saga - the aftermath
When I came home from work one day and my Duntechs were gone and a Bose speaker system was in their place first I listened and then I felt like something importent had been removed from my body. CD's and toy speakers do not make Hi Fi.
Call me the lost Hi Fi nut,
Bill
@Bill1William
Any possible (and unlikely) superior frequency response in vinyl is short-lived. Those features are tiny in the grooves and get mashed down after only a few plays. Most vinyl wasn't that good in the first place. You also have tiny pitch variations because the hole isn't absolutely dead-center in the disk. And let's not forget tone-arm resonance. Direct-to-disk WAS a little better, but you sacrificed that as soon as you copied to tape.
Vinyl has many pleasant associations for people, primarily tied in with their youth. True high-fidelity is not one of those things.
RE: That SATA cable saga - the aftermath
I was keen to explore the situation more thoroughly. Maybe the original cable presented a poor impedance match, causing a degree of mismatch reflections across the cable that **continually** kicks in error correction and continually raises the amount of processing, current drawn, noise and electromagnetic interference produced my the microprocessor. Heck, I can even hear my PC's microprocessor grind away when listening through its headphone socket.
The end result of that constant increase in EMI, noise and current draw would be very much dependant on the system and its configuration - but I wonder whether the following functional blocks would be susceptible: PCM transmitter (where a "digital" output is never a perfect square wave), PCM receiver and analogue output of the DAC.
Interesting when the areas of computing/information theory collide with quality hi-fi and you see people assume that a DAC and a pair of ears work to the same thresholds as a digital receiver circuit...
Andrew Randle (www.hifiwatcher.com)
RE: That SATA cable saga - the aftermath
Your original speculation about processor load when errors occur also does not reflect the actual way that SATA errors are handled.
Modern 24bit Audio hardware and best practice amplifier design give much lower noise floors than was common 20 years ago and thus it is possible that marginal effects that would have previously been buried in noise can now be detected.
However their is a healthy (and most would say justified) suspicion that many of the low-level improvements that some high-end audio journalists claim to hear are more likely to be perception than concrete differences.
It is however important to maintain any discussion within the bounds of reasonable behaviour. Nobody is pedalling drugs, just selling expensive components to those willing to pay for them.
RE: That SATA cable saga - the aftermath
Thinking any different is, as already mentioned in other comments, mistaking analog with digital. Either it works. Or it doesn't. And if it doesn't, you WILL notice!
I rank this among the similarly weird discussions that digital audio sent via coaxial cables sounds different than via optical cables. Why? Why would that be so?? Are those ones and zeros different??
And while I'm ranting, a comment on what I've seen in some stores: Why on EARTH would you want gold plated optical cables? :)
RE: That SATA cable saga - the aftermath
Exactly how great these artefacts are, and their audibility is the basis for most of the debates (some entirely spurious) about digital sound playback quality.
Pops and crackles.
I've been using middle of the road gear for computer audio for years and have never heard such bad audio from any of mine. All I hear is smooth music, no pops, no crackles, just tunes. Yes I listen carefully and my main audio gear is all Meridian (a company that embraced digital before many others).
The question I ask is - Is this high end audio/DAC gear made by folks that havent a clue what they are doing and just poor quality or are these so called 'experts' just hopeless at configuring computer kit properly?
I reckon a bit of both.
RE: That SATA cable saga - the aftermath
Having been an audiophile for over 40 years I am constantly amazed at the differences I can hear between different pieces of equipment. At my age I am supposed to be half deaf.
The originaal CD standards, still in use, were set based on technological capabilities in 1974 (between Philips and Sony). Anybody that cannot hear the difference between digital and analogue using those standards IS either half deaf, or has never listened to live, unamplified music.
While 0's and 1's are undoubtedly constant, they way different pieces of equipment deal with those 0's and 1's varies considerably. Whether it is due to impedance effects, different draws on power supplies, I cannot say. But those who cannot hear those different, or cannot measure them, either do not know how to listen, or what to measure. This last is important as what measures the psycho-acoustic effect of sound on the human ears is still far from defined.
RE: That SATA cable saga - the aftermath
A group of professional magazine writers for a major audiophile magazine were tricked into a blind test pitting monster speaker cables and plain old wire coat hangers straightened out. The majority picked the coat hanger as the superior "cabling".
Psycho-acoustics is by it's definition unscientific and therefore basically unmeasurable.