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Hardware 2.0

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Windows Phone DOES transmit location information without user consent

By | September 25, 2011, 1:30am PDT

Summary: Statements made by Microsoft to the US House of Representatives prove to be at odds with how its Windows Phone OS actually works.

Earlier this month Microsoft was hit with a lawsuit which claimed that the new Windows Phone OS tracked users without their consent. Now new evidence has come to light which seems to prove that there is some substance to this lawsuit.

Enter Rafael Rivera, one of the programmer behind the Windows Phone jailbreaking tool ChevronWP. After initially being skeptical about the lawsuit, Rivera decided to test the Windows Phone camera app to see what information, if any, it sent to Microsoft when the phone was reset to the ‘out-of-box’ experience.

Note: The OS version tested by Rivera was Windows Phone OS 7.0.7004.0.

What Rivera discovered was that the app sent several packets to Microsoft, one to agps.location.live.net and several to Microsoft’s Location Inference (codenamed Orion) service hosted at inference.location.live.net. The information transmitted included:

  • OS Version
  • Device Information
  • Wireless access points in the vicinity of the handset, including MAC addresses and power levels
  • Various GUID-based identifiers

But it gets worse:

In response to these packets was pin-point accurate positioning information - all before I granted the Camera application access to location data.

In other words, all this happens before the user has a chance to respond to this screen:

Rivera hypothesizes that what’s happening here is that the camera app is calling up location services in preparation for location information and that location services then goes ahead to figure out where the phone is and caches that result.

Note: By default, location services is switched on in Windows Phone. If this service is disabled, no information is sent by the camera app.

However, this behavior DOES contradict a statement made by Microsoft to the US House of Representatives. Specifically:

[1. User Choice and Control.] Microsoft does not collect information to determine the approximate location of a device unless a user has expressly allowed an application to collect location information. Users that have allowed an application to access location data always have the option to access to location at an application level or they can disable location collection altogether for all applications by disabling the location service feature on their phone.

[2. Observing Location Only When the User Needs It.] Microsoft only collects information to help determine a phone’s approximate location if (a) the user has allowed an application to access and use location data, and (b) that application actually requests the location data. If an application does not request location, Microsoft will not collect location data.

What still remains to be seen is whether Microsoft is storing this information.

tl;dr summary:

Microsoft says that it does not determine user location information for Windows Phone apps without consent, but research by programmer Rafael Rivera proves that this is not the case.

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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RE: Windows Phone DOES transmit location information without user consent
non-biased 30th Sep
@mikroland2.0 And your point of linking to that article was? The piece was primarily about Apple testifying at a congressional hearing. It did mention what has been know for a while though that the iPhone and iPad sent information about the cell towers and WiFi networks in the area. The key to that is what was sent and what wasn't. Identifying info about the phone was not sent to Apple servers unlike in this case with MS. Basically by posting the link all you have done is to prove that this case with MS is more intrusive than the case with Apple, nice job fanboy.
"Note: The OS version tested by Rivera was Windows Phone OS 7.0.7004.0."

Why not the NoDo update? This kinda undermines the findings.

That's like saying "Windows' is still prone to 95% of malware, Microsoft said it wasn't!*
*This test was preformed on Windows XP SP2. "

Would be better to test out the NoDo update or better yet, wait for Tuesday and test the Mango update after it comes out. Curious why Raf isn't running the latest update...?

Still, these findings are curious none the less.

EDIT: I see, he did test each WP release he just started with 7004 and worked his way up, with no change. Seems like it might be time to switch 3G off each time I smap a pic.
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Contributr
@Cylon Centurion Rivera says 'When Mango ships in 1-2 weeks, I???ll test that too. Stay tuned.'
@Cylon Centurion Or wifi if you are on that... hopefully the Mango update will take care of this issue.
@Cylon Centurion Could it be that MS is allows allowing the location information to be transmitted so that they can let the phone and applications on the phone know where it is at and MS is not using/storing that information for its own use.
@rmark@??? Personally I think it might have to do with advertising. If Microsoft is going to sell locations of phones to advertisers, so ads can be done on a locational basis, it makes sense to know where the phones are. I remember reading something about Microsoft integrating Bing searches with advertising. But that could be misinformation, as with anything else you read on the internet.
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a good topic
luminary911 25th Sep
a good topic,ugg boots
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get upset, and for the very same reasons I'm not upset about MS either.

Pagan jim
@James Quinn There is a difference. Apple was storing the info on the phone, and on the computer that synced with the phone. Microsoft is harvesting the data on a remote server, for an unspecified amount of time. The real test is: if the various fanboys will speak out against Microsoft the same as they spoke out against Apple.
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Yes
Michael Alan Goff 25th Sep
@Rick_Kl

I don't see any need for Microsoft to know where I am.
@Michael Alan Goff: the sad thing is Microsoft lied about this behavior, and was quick to criticize others for their misdoings. When questioned by Congress, Microsoft blatantly lied about their spying on endusers.
@Rick_Kl
I agree. The situations are very different, as you explained. No information was sent to Apple, albeit that information was stored on the iPhone and attached computer. That is VERY different to the WP7 situation wherein information IS sent to MS. I, too, am curious about what MS fan-boys will have to say about his. happy
@Rick_Kl
Rick_K (on these blogs couple blogs back): Microsoft just channeled most all of the WP7SOS phones into carrier stores except the phones used by Microsoft Employees and few fanboys

I think he claimed there were only few like 4 fanboys bought those apart from Microsoft employees. Of course that statement is paraphrased, but you could search for exact comments he did. Since there are only 4 users and rest of Microsoft employees, why would anyone care about the issue. Anyway you don't have one, so what is point of bashing here. Thats what exactly you said to iOS bashers those very day(s) when there was similar noise.
@Rama.NET: I want to know if the staunch Microsoft supporters, will get upset about this. They came out of the woodwork to bash Apple for something similar, but not as nefarious.
@Rick_Kl Indeed... given their stance on the copy/paste issue I'm sure they'll be more than willing to give Microsoft a free pass on this.
@Rick_Kl
Are you absolutely sure of this statement. Where Apple may have monitored and Google may have logged (even to the point of photographing Your location) that Microsoft is not somehow monitoring your behaviors? Don't forget Bing has to be an aggregator of information as well. Not spreading FUD, but in order to be truly off the grid the best means is not owning a phone, any personal property or using credit or banking transactions of any sort. BIG BROTHER always knows where you are. Time to quit thinking any platform truly provides anonymity.
@Rick_Kl

That is a real shame, really.

I wish we had a bit more transparency in our companies.
@Rick_Kl

The article says:

"Note: By default, location services is switched on in Windows Phone. If this service is disabled, no information is sent by the camera app."

And Microsoft says:
"[1. User Choice and Control.] Microsoft does not collect information to determine the approximate location of a device unless a user has expressly allowed an application to collect location information."

So what the heck is the problem here? If you go in and set the location services to disabled then you don't get tracked!

How can they be lying if you can turn the tracking service off?
Unlike Apple and Google you get tracked no matter what!!! How come there's no big article on that?
@Rama.NET I personally do not care what someone else posted, show me something that I posted, and we can talk. I do believe that Microsoft is harvesting user data, but do not know why. Every article I have personally read indicates that Microsoft collects data dumps from those phones, and is storing it in a database. In June there was an article on how you could track the phone using live.net (or whatever it is called). All you needed was the MAC address of the phone and you could track where it was, and where it had been.
@Rick_Kl I think the location servers are telling the phone where it is at based on technical information the phone sends to it. That is, Wifi and MAC addresses are sent to the server and the server tells the phone it is located in New York City, Now York. It is not like the phone could possible know where it is at on its own.
@rmark@??? The talkback here is all screwed up. But the truth is; the phone sends WiFi locations, Cell towers, and GPS coordinates (if available). The things that bothers me is: Why is there a need to send a device specific unique ID? It is bad enough that Microsoft installed spyware in Windows, but to add spyware to phones too?
@mikroland2.0: 1: Few people will be aware they can turn it off.
2: On Android, location services are by default OFF, and your device will PROMPT YOU FOR PERMISSION BEFORE it sends any location related data to Google.
Try going to the location settings on an Android phone and disable GPS and WiFi based location.
Then enable GPS and then WiFi based positioning - it will ask you if you want to send anonymous positioning data *or if you don't want to*.

In other words - it's by default off in Android and you are asked in a way that makes it very obvious what it's about when you choose to activate it.
@Rick_Kl Yeah, I don't see that happening. I suspect that a vast majority of the people that were calling for heads to roll over the iPhone storing the info only had a problem with it because it was Apple. I don't have any more of a problem with this than I do with the case with Apple. Just amazes me that as I recall all three (Google, MS and Apple) have been found of doing pretty much the same thing but the Apple case generated 10X the number of stories as the other two combined. Guess that's what happens when your top dog, tech value wise.
@James Quinn I've got no problems with the aGPS service and would use it; the problem is that Microsoft said one thing when its software is actually doing another.
Or didnt you? Just because that data is being sent doesnt mean they are collecting user or device information. They may be throwing away everything identifiable and only storing the gps/wifi info needed to make the location info more accurate. There may be no info persisted that would enable user tracking such as was the case with apples tracking. Please let us know.
@Johnny Vegas Apple collecting data on the device (without transmitting back to Apple) is nothing close to Microsoft collecting locations with a uniqued identifier and storing it on a remote server for an unspecified amount of time.
@Johnny Vegas Maybe the phone sends a unique identifier just to make the data "controllable": imaging some script kiddie that floods their location servers with false data. With the id, they can at least perform a basic check on whether it's a genuine id and eventually block that id.

Just a suggestion from a developers POV happy
@belli_bettens@??? I have an issue with the ability of company to track users. I read all the flack Apple got for keeping a database on the device. Yet Microsoft is doing something that is even more intrusive (keeping the data on a remote server) and people seem willing to give Microsoft a pass on it. Where are the big headlines Microsoft???s locationgate?. Or the endless articles (blogs) on how Microsoft is actively tracking users? Or does that only apply with it is Google or Apple?
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Where are the Angry Hordes, outraged at being spied upon like this!?
Am I missing something or is the case just that it will send this info once and then stop if you choose to not allow it via the popup screen that will popup the first time you use the camera?

If so, then this is surely just a bug. If not, then Microsoft should change the behaviour.

That said, anyone paranoid of sharing their location when taking a photo probably ruins their phone experience by wearing a tinfoil hat.
@allusernamestaken It is not just when the user takes a photo. Periodically (if I read it right) the phones send a data dump back to Microsoft. This data dump has locations of Wireless access points (including MAC addresses) The GPS coordinates of the phone, and a unique identifier of the phone. The user cannot opt-out, as even when they do the phones still send the data dumps back to Microsoft.
@Rick_Kl I think you read it wrong. What I got out of it was, if you reset the phone, then open the camera app, it sends a packet back to MS that has your location. It stops doing that if you tell the camera app not to send the data. Whether or not MS stores that initial data packet is unknown, as I don't believe anyone has asked MS if they do.
@bigsibling the original article indicated that Microsoft was taking these Data dumps on a regular basis. They would not even specify what the limited time basis was that they would hold the data. Also why would there need to be a unique identifier attached to the data? For more read this: http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/04/windows-phone-7-no-on-device-location-tracking-online-another-matter.ars
@allusernamestaken Don't recall you making a similar statement about Apple or does it only apply to MS?
So where are the ones who bashed Apple over a slightly similar issue? Come on guys, you accused Apple of spying on it's users even after it was found that the information was not even sent to any outside server but stored on the computer used to sync the iPhone.

And before you try to say this is the same thing - no it is not. With the issue on the iPhone NO information was sent to any server at all nor was there anywhere near the amount of information collected. iOS collected location data from whichever cell tower the device was connected to and saved it on a database file on the device which was later synced to iTunes and stayed on the computer used to sync the device. With WP7 there is more personally identifiable information collected which is sent to Microsoft servers.

If this was such a hot button issue then with the iPhone, if this offended your sensibilities because Apple allegedly violated their user's privacy then I want to know where is your outrage NOW? Where are the rallying cries? Where are the demands that Microsoft fix this NOW?

I'm predicting most of you will lay low...
@Pete "athynz" Athens Microsoft will be given a pass on this, even though it has been news for the last several months. I first read about it in May, so it is nothing new. I believe Microsoft calls it telemetry, or something stupid like that. Microsoft indicated that they would turn the data on specific phones over to the authorities if requested to do so, that should be telling enough.
@Pete "athynz" Athens

I don't know about the others, but I'm here and ready to call Microsoft out on their bad behavior. Most of the outrage about it was really just Apple-hate, but you know that already.

I can demand all I want that they fix it, but I don't even have a smartphone. I doubt they'd listen. :P
@Michael Alan Goff I am willing to bet there are more here that will defend Microsoft???s actions than call them out on it. Microsoft claims the data is being used to assist in GPS location services, but why would they need the phones unique ID?
Agreed, it is more than a little suspicious.

Also, I have no doubt that people will try to defend Microsoft with "great" ad-hominems and "wonderful" straw-men.

The fanatical never see themselves as wrong, though.
@Michael Alan Goff So true, but that goes for any Zealots. I am sure there are a few that will defend Apple, or Google, no matter what. They will also use red herrings, and other logical fallacies to further make themselves look intelligent. But the reality is there is no room for facts, when your religion is being chastised.
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Technically, MS is OK
gak@... 26th Sep
I guess the camera application does not get any location data if the user does not grant it the right. The location service does get the data, but it cannot be used in any way. The server also gets the data, but it is sent by the location service which is explicitly allowed to run by the user.

So, whatever MS does, there always will be a bigger idiot.
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And you miss the point entirely
thx-1138_@... Updated - 27th Sep
@gak@... " ...I guess the camera application does not get any location data if the user does not grant it the right. "

Oh, right! ... because they obviously built in the pin-point locator just for kicks ... you know? .. so they're like eyes painted on a doll, you think?!?

GTF outta here! I mean, really?? You really believe that load of horse puckey you just dished out? What are you smoking, deluded guy??

This is basically a very scary extension / evolution of the idea Apple had with their tracking mechanism - but with more tracking accuracy (..and somewhat more subversion).

" ... no reason ... i just like doing that kind of thing. "
Is the phone sending positioning data, or getting the position data? Rafael did have localization services turned on, so, if the phone isn't getting a GPS signal, it will contact the MS servers to get a triangulated position.
@pedroroque The phone is sending positioning data, as well as a unique ID for the specific phone. It is also being sent to a remote server, one that the end user has no control over. Microsoft has been harvesting user data for a long time, but now it is just becoming more evident.
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Wait a minute.......
mikroland2.0 26th Sep
The article says:

"Note: By default, location services is switched on in Windows Phone. If this service is disabled, no information is sent by the camera app."

And Microsoft says:
"[1. User Choice and Control.] Microsoft does not collect information to determine the approximate location of a device unless a user has expressly allowed an application to collect location information."

So what the heck is the problem here? If you go in and set the location services to disabled then you don't get tracked!
Unlike Apple and Google you get tracked no matter what!!!
@mikroland2.0 Actually Microsoft is the one collecting data on a remote server, but why let facts get in the way of your delusional fantasy?
[ Microsoft also said that a unique, per-device ID was transmitted along with the requests. Though there are benign uses of such an ID???and in fact, services like "Find My Phone" depend on it???the risk is that it will be stored long-term, allowing both Microsoft and law-enforcement to track movements of Windows Phone users.]

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/04/windows-phone-7-no-on-device-location-tracking-online-another-matter.ars
@mikroland2.0
Good someone finally gets it right!
@mikroland2.0 So what the heck is the problem here? If you go in and set the location services to disabled then you don't get tracked!

You do know that one can also do this on iOS and Android devices, right? But apparently when this was brought up during the issue with iOS that didn't matter, Apple was in the wrong, Apple was spying, Apple was sending all sorts of juicy details back to the mothership even though it was proven that the very limited information they did collect stayed on the iPhone and on the computer the iPhone was synced to. In this case it has been verified that the much more detailed information Microsoft is collecting is being sent back to their servers. THAT is the problem here.

Unlike Apple and Google you get tracked no matter what!!!


Unless you turn off location services... But don't let the facts stop you from spreading your FUD.
@Pete "athynz" Athens You will never win that debate. I even posted a link to another article that states that Microsoft collects data on users. Remember if Microsoft does it, it is no big deal. If anyone else does something even remotely similar, then they are evil and spying.
@Pete "athynz" Athens

Hey Pete, it's known that Apple and Google spy on users without their consent:

http://www.kavkaz.tv/eng/content/2011/04/28/14198.shtml
@mikroland2.0 And your point of linking to that article was? The piece was primarily about Apple testifying at a congressional hearing. It did mention what has been know for a while though that the iPhone and iPad sent information about the cell towers and WiFi networks in the area. The key to that is what was sent and what wasn't. Identifying info about the phone was not sent to Apple servers unlike in this case with MS. Basically by posting the link all you have done is to prove that this case with MS is more intrusive than the case with Apple, nice job fanboy.

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