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Why those enamored of Salesforce are talking nonsense

By | March 31, 2011, 3:28pm PDT

Summary: What the heck is Salesforce playing at with its Radian 6 announcement?

The Salesforce.com acquisition of Radian 6 has, in the words of Simon Wardley got the popular media:

…all agog with news of Salesforce’s recent acquisitions including Heroku for $212M and Radian6 for $326M. Some of the comments question such expensive purchases but these are very astute moves and it’s worth exploring why.

He is correct. Everyone seems to have a positive opinion but usually without any consideration of key factors that matter to the enterprise. As you might gather, I am less than convinced.

While Simon eulogises Salesforce in these terms:

With a market cap of $17+ billion, Salesforce is playing a powerful game and growing rapidly. The purchases of Radian6, Heroku, DimDim and others will only help its cause and undermine the position of its competitors.

Smart move, smart play, smart people.

…he utterly misses the point. Market caps come and go - anyone remember Baan in 1995 and how they crashed a few years later? Why would I draw that analogy?

Salesforce.com has done a fantastic job in redefining the use case for sales force automation among users who were less than convinced by Siebel or SAP. It has gone on to try the same with call service. Latterly it has understood that in the saas world, platform plays can be powerful. But….behind all of this it is a 10 year old technology that is only growing up very slowly and which is creaking.

Two plus years ago, Salesforce co-founder Parker Harris sat down with Frank Scavo, Vinnie Mirchandani, Ray Wang and myself talking about re-engineering Salesforce for in-memory database. I was super excited because in my mind, if Salesforce could transition to that technology then it would have two things going for it:

  1. Lightening fast response
  2. A genuine opportunity to deal with its less than stellar reporting issues

Less than 12 months later that thought/project was dead. I was surprised. But then perhaps not. Fast forward to today when it was recently announced that Salesforce has renewed its Oracle database foundation deal. I guess that Larry Ellison, CEO Oracle’s stock holding pulls development power. Make no mistake. Despite Salesforce insistence that it has stripped down Oracle DB to get the maximum performance it is still licensing Oracle. That creates a lock-in that constrains Salesforce.

More to the point, Ray Wang, Constellation Research CEO makes a number of interesting points:

Bring social analytics or socialytics to the Salesforce.com offerings. Sales and Service Cloud will gain new capabilities in social media monitoring and engagement.  Today’s companies seek the tools to bring social customer strategies with existing CRM processes and organizational structures. A social media monitoring and engagement platform provides a critical tool for success in Social CRM (SCRM).

…as a starter. On back channels I challenged Ray to explain what this means. Why? Because for me, Salesforce is applying layers of new technology without thinking about the core integration. In other words it is ‘nice’ but provides one more pain point for CIO/business to manage.

More broadly, I am deeply concerned that Salesforce is becoming a company that I don’t understand. What does it stand for?

At one point you could easily say it is trying to redefine CRM in a positive way. But then the addition of developer communities (with Heroku), its move to becoming a media company (which I believe to be wholly ill thought through), the whole PaaS Force.com platform that partners I deal with are grumbling about and now the Radian 6 announcement seem to indicate that Salesforce is either placing multiple bets or is plain dumb.

None of this matters if you are a 50-100 person company. But Salesforce has made clear it wants to play in the seriously large enterprise space. Does Salesforce think for one minute that those decision makers will not be looking at the company’s moves and wondering what the heck is going on?

Fashion discussions are fun but the buyers I speak with don’t care. They want results now (which Salesforce can deliver) but with a determinable future. Right now I have no clue what that looks like other than in ‘fun’ and ‘fashionable’ terms. My buyers have more important problems to manage. Do yours?

You decide….

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Dennis Howlett has been providing comment and analysis on enterprise software since 1991.

Disclosure

Dennis Howlett

Dennis Howlett is committed to maintaining the independent and opinionated stance that his writings are well known for and does not enter into contracts that would limit his freedom of expression in any way. However it is important in the interests of full disclosure to inform readers of those relationships so they can form their own judgment. This page therefore lists all Dennis Howlett’s current business relationships.

Dennis’s consulting arrangements occasionally bring him into direct or indirect business relationships with some of the companies about which he writes, and/or their competitors. Where such a relationship exists, it is disclosed at the end of any article that references the company concerned.

Dennis owns AccMan, an independently produced blog covering the professional services market, primarily focused on Europe. It is currently sponsored by selected TextLink Ads and named sponsors in the ‘Sponsored Content’ block.

He is a member of Enterprise Advocates, a loose association of consultants, and analysts who are concerned with the buyer side of the buy-sell enterprise relationship.

He is a paid contributor to IT Counts, a site dedicated to discussing technology issues as they related to ICAEW members. He also advises ICAEW on certain aspects of its member outreach programs.

He is an SAP Mentor and participates in SAP Mentor webinars. He has recently produced a guide for SAP resellers wishing to record customer videos. Other than as disclosed here, Dennis maintains no business relationship with SAP and is not financially rewarded for his role as a Mentor.

Dennis maintains relationships with a range of end user organizations and in all cases is subject to non-disclosure agreement. He has no current ‘paid for’ relationships with ITC vendors except as disclosed above although certain vendors comp travel and expenses claims. For the benefit of doubt, T&E reimbursement is a common practice among European based writers. It is often the only way we can attend important events. Even so it doesn’t impact our analysis of what vendors have to say. If you believe otherwise then feel free to ignore what is written here.

Except as mentioned above, Dennis has no other investments in any tech industry participants. This page last updated 23rd February, 2010.

Biography

Dennis Howlett

Dennis Howlett has been providing comment and analysis on enterprise software since 1991 in a variety of European trade and professional journals including CFO Magazine, The Economist and Information Week. Today, apart from being a full time blogger on innovation for professional services organisations, he is a founding member of Enterprise Irregulars and an investor in a European start-up. Prior to, Dennis was technology and tax partner in a British firm of Chartered Accountants for 10 years. Prior to that held various senior finance roles across a broad range of industries.

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RE: Why those who are enamored of Salesforce are talking nonsense
FAULKNE 13th Oct
Good day to confirm this comment I would appreciate T h e b e s t o f Z D N e t d e l i v e r e d your website very nice to everyone Yes, Oracle is the only one with shared-disk architecture, but that is there advantage. It means you can add or remove nodes and the database lives on. In a shared nothing architecture, if you lose a node, you lose the system. I'm sure Oracle appreciates EMC highlighting their advantage.I also desire to signal in your RSS feeds. Thank you as soon as once again and maintain up the great operate Awesome post! Thank you very much || thanks for nice content this is really benefit to me.
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since 1991..!!!
Agree Simon Wardley gushing was hard to stomach but Salesforce is moving fast and throwing their considerable weight around the ring slamming the big boys which also inflicts pain on smaller competitors who suffer collateral damage.

So Dennis way to go to bat for your clients wink
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Contributr
@sardire - thanks but they cant get the attention that an IBM/ORCL/SAP can hence the big statements.
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Vapid, as usual
irregularenterprise 31st Mar 2011
Yet another in a series of your standard set of judgmental claims with no backing, often getting facts completely wrong (e.g., Larry's influence on Salesforce.com). BTW, do you know the meaning of the word "eulogises?" Apparently not.
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Contributr
@irregularenterprise - ummm...you know Larry's shareholding in the company? I do.
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Contributr
@irregularenterprise - and if you think I am wrong then provide facts of your own
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RE: Vapid, as usual
irregularenterprise 3rd Apr 2011
@dahowlett Funny how you had my detailed response deleted, presumably by ZDNet editorial. Doesn't that make you cowardly, in addition to intellectually dishonest?
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first mover advantage
vijayasankarv@... 31st Mar 2011
Just like SAP had a good run with R/3 and then used that momentum to get into other things around it (with varying degrees of success), maybe salesforce will do ok too with this
Salesforce.com must move forward or it will be overrun by one of emerging competitors.

The direction towards Social CRM seems promising. Other bet is the announced integration with Intuit.

Different directions, many relatively small bets. Looks like a hedging strategy.

Maciej Janiec
http://inlevel.com
A quick comment from a salesforce user: Some of those enamoured of Salesforce are happy users who don't use all its existing functionality and are not too concerned about its M&A strategy (like me). Dennis's points are important for the firm's investors but not everyone who finds something to praise in salesforce, or recommends it, is talking nonsense.
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Salesforce doesn't do it for me
johnflynn50 1st Apr 2011
In sales for over 25 years. Working in Social Media for five. Salesforce.com doesn't really do it for me. I have tried it a few times and have not found it easy to use or helpful. I bought ACT for under $40 and uploaded my 10,000 contacts (something you can't do on Salesforce).

ACT is far from perfect but it does what I need it to do.

www.inboundinternetmarketing.com
Hi Dennis,

"?he utterly misses the point. Market caps come and go" ? yes, Market Caps reflect not just financial value but market sentiment on future value. Of course this varies over time, take a company like Blockbuster which failed to adapt to change. Even with 50,000 employees, the dominant position in its market, $3 billion in revenue, market cap of $4 billion, praised by many analysts as "an online retail powerhouse" - Blockbuster found itself in chapter 11 within 5 years. The market had changed, their model was no longer relevant - we're all familiar with this.

Most have experienced the "seriously large enterprise space" world making grand dismissive statements in favour of what currently exists - remember that IPX/SPX would dominate and TCP/IP was mickey mouse OR that the Internet was a fad and disintermediation was the overriding concern OR that Google wouldn't last five years OR even back a few years back, between 2004-06, it was rare to find a "seriously large enterprise space" analyst who would take the ideas of computer utilities (nee cloud) seriously.

Markets move, markets change, businesses grow and others die - that's life.

All business activities evolve and they do so through a common pathway; from innovation, to custom built, to product to commodity with utility services appearing in the later. What drives this evolution are user and supply competition which results in activities becoming more ubiquitous, more defined and ultimately more suitable for utility provision. This change is always disruptive to those whose business depends upon the previous model.

Back in the 1980s CRM was being provided by custom built database marketing efforts. As this activity spread and became more well defined, more mature then it enabled products to appear. Siebel took advantage of this changing environment and I'm sure many in the "custom built database marketing" world dismissed their efforts as the new kid on the block.

Today, CRM systems are ubiquitous and of little differential value between users. They are more of a cost of doing business and ripe for utility provision. Many in the "CRM as a product" world are equally dismissive but Salesforce has positioned itself well for this changing environment.

But positioning is not enough - you need to defend and grow and in this new world, ecosystems are key. Saleforce carefully grows and exploits a surrounding ecosystem with tools such as salesforce ideas, app exchange and acquisition programs. However, they also need to defend their position as eventually those competitors in the product world will want to move into this space. By aggressively commoditising activities which might be a differential advantage for a competitor, Salesforce creates a moat devoid of value around its core revenue streams and hence limits the options of its would be competitors.

The acquisitions they have made strengthen their position, expand their offering and ecosystem, remove differential advantage that competitors might wish to exploit and ups the barriers to entry into this space. Salesforce has positioned itself exactly where the hockey puck is going to be and is defending that area. It's a smart move, they're smart people.

It might not be what the "seriously large enterprise space" thinks is a good move, but the market does, the market recognises this. Of course, this doesn't mean that Salesforce won't fail, they have many choices to make and some ideas will be followed through and some (as the example you give of in-memory databases) they won't.

Of course, time will tell whether Salesforce and the wider market is right or whether you are. Dennis we've known each other for many years, I respect your opinion but in this case - you give me every reason to believe that you missing the wider picture. Possibly you're listening to much to the "seriously large enterprise space" and not enough to the change that's happening?

The "seriously large enterprise space" bet on IPX/SPX, the wider market bet on TCP/IP - the market was right but then that's usually the case. Oh, and the "seriously large enterprise space" rapidly adopted TCP/IP when it became obvious.

It would be interesting to know if any in the "seriously large enterprise space" are already adopting Salesforce. Of course, you'd first have to define what "seriously large enterprise" is, and as Blockbuster can testify - that changes.
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Contributr
@swardley - fair points from where you are sitting but I see the market looking in other directions. I don't have an argument with the ecosystem play but...I see plenty of issues coming down the track.

I'll be talking more about this next week in the context of the SME market.
@dahowlett: Well, the future is an information barrier we can't see through hence no-one can be certain as to how this will play out. Which is why we have opinions and in this case ours diverge.

Do consider the ecosystem plays that are occurring - they are powerful weapons. Google is effectively using an aggressive ecosystem play against Apple with Android though this isn't the first time Apple has come under such an attack.

I look forward to hearing more from you about the "issues coming down the track".
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I think Salesforce think that acquisition of Radian 6 is good and is a positive development. They already have good CRM products like the Sales Cloud which has been used mostly in marketing or in selling Toronto homes for sale or Duncan real estate and vacation home rentals and an additional acquired product do good for the company.
Good day to confirm this comment I would appreciate T h e b e s t o f Z D N e t d e l i v e r e d your website very nice to everyone Yes, Oracle is the only one with shared-disk architecture, but that is there advantage. It means you can add or remove nodes and the database lives on. In a shared nothing architecture, if you lose a node, you lose the system. I'm sure Oracle appreciates EMC highlighting their advantage.I also desire to signal in your RSS feeds. Thank you as soon as once again and maintain up the great operate Awesome post! Thank you very much || thanks for nice content this is really benefit to me.

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