Live blog: Can a student go fully open source for 48 hours?

By | January 8, 2010, 6:50pm PST

Summary: With academia saturated by Windows environments and a minority of Mac and Linux labs, can a student go fully open-source for 48 hours? Live blog

2010 has brought me one daring New Year’s resolution: to embrace open-source technology and to break away from the typical Windows environment. Windows is still the major player in the world of academia, with Mac and Linux labs coming in second and third, specifically to serve the minority of students studying specialist subjects.

Even though I am no longer a computer science student and now studying the social science of criminology, one could be considered as an “ordinary” student. So with this, how would an “ordinary” student cope using a non-Windows environment for 48 hours? Would there be any particular advantages, or find more disadvantages than it’s worth for long term use?

I wanted to find out and it’s not the first time I’ve attempted something like this. Starting Monday 11th at midday (London time), I’ll be using Ubuntu 9.10 for an entire 48 hours, and will only be able to use open-source applications. You can see the live blog below as and when things happen. Feel free to leave your suggestions before the start in the TalkBack section - ideas of applications a student would need, from office software to instant messengers - or chip in throughout by leaving a comment in the live blog window below.

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Topics

Zack Whittaker, a criminologist who studied at the University of Kent, Canterbury, is a journalist, writer and broadcaster.

Disclosure

Zack Whittaker

I worked briefly with Microsoft UK in 2006 but no longer have any connection with the company. Regardless, I remain impartial and unbiased in my views.

I don't hold any stock or shares, investments or industrial secrets in any company, but have signed confidentiality agreements with a number of UK and U.S. organisations, whose names I am not at liberty to disclose.

I was involved with Kent Union, the University of Kent's student union, undertaking voluntary, non-salaried, elected positions between early 2009 and mid-2010.

No other company, body, government department, non-governmental organisation or third sector organisation employs me or pays me a salary in any capacity whatsoever.

As a freelance journalist, whenever expenses are given and taken by a company that is not CBS Interactive, these will be disclosed in each relevant post to ensure transparency.

I currently work with a UK law enforcement unit, but this is an entirely separate position which bears no connection to other work.

(Updated: 23rd October 2011)

Biography

Zack Whittaker

Zack Whittaker, criminologist who studied at the University of Kent, UK, is a journalist, writer and broadcaster.

After studying criminology at university, though still in his early-20's, he has already had a series unconventional work and voluntary positions. He has worked with researchers studying neurological illnesses like Tourette's syndrome (which he suffers from), has given lectures on the nature of disabilities in the public community, and occasionally ends up speaking on television and radio discussing the events of the day.

He first had academic work published at the age of 22, then still an undergraduate, and has been cited by a wide range of publications: from the Huffington Post, Business Insider, AllThingsDigital, The Atlantic Wire and CBS News.

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RE: Live blog: Can a student go fully open-source for 48 hours?
d.woodcroft@... 1st Feb 2010
i hope that it works for you. i'm 48, and believe the original idea of: "that's cool. can i try it?". one day
people will have more choice. People have lost what it
means to own a pc. some people love pcs, and playing with
them all the time. i never realized what a pc was, until
i came to freeware. one of the reasons that i didn't want Linux is that a friend of mine said that Linux would take
over my pc. now i know that windows and Linux can run
side by side. it's more fun than a barrel full of
monkeys!!
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48hrs??? What a stupid test .....
wackoae Updated - 8th Jan 2010
48 hrs is a weekend. I know you plan to use Ubuntu, but based on your criteria you can just open Firefox and do nothing but web surf and you met the full test.

What about trying spending a full semester using nothing but open source (including the OS)? That is a real test ... not a stupid 48 hrs.
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Re: 48hrs??? What a stupid test .....
justthisguyyouknow 11th Jan 2010
I wouldn't personally say it's 'stupid' (I'm older than 14, both in real life and on these here Internets), but you'll need 48 hours just to do the install(s) and configure your machine the way you want it -- so I agree with the gist of the previous post.

Give it a whole term!
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Completely agree
de-void-21165590650301806002836337787023 11th Jan 2010
Any half tech-savvy person can install Ubuntu and use it to browse the web during a weekend, but it's not until you have to actually do work over a pretty extended period of time until you run into the roadblocks that prevent you moving to a new app-stack/OS.

Move to an entirely FOSS stack for a term and THEN report back.
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I think he pre-installed it
John Zern 12th Jan 2010
set it up, and tweaked it over the weekend already.
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I don't think he'll just surf...
pdickey043@... 12th Jan 2010
Yes, 48 hours is the equivalent of a weekend. But, unless his college courses are running Wednesday through Sunday, he's not just going to be able to surf the web and call it a day.

He started today at noon GMT. So, that means that he has to do his coursework on Ubuntu and everything else that he normally does on Monday and Tuesday.

I do agree that he should go longer (I'd say a week or two with the option to continue after that).

Have a great day:)
Patrick.
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Yes, a semester makes more sense ...
mwagner@... 13th Jan 2010
... because it more closely resembles the problems people who must interact with the outside world encounter - and find themselves with "occasional needs" which just cannot be met without proprietary solutions.

Once people become dependent upon particular applications, or who much interest with those dependent upon such an application, things get a whole lot more complicated.

Nearly every open-source title for Linux has been ported to Windows but the reverse is simply not necessarily true. Aside form commerical products, there is also a growing volume of open-source software ported to Windows but not Linux.
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Porting direction
over2sd 14th Jan 2010
There's a reason Linux programs are ported to Windows(tm) on a fairly routine basis. They tend to be written using portable coding techniques and libraries.
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Are we surprised that someone at ZDNet thinks it's a big deal to run Linux for 48 hours?
Are we surprised that nobody higher up killed the story as an insulting false premise? As though Linux were so difficult the only people who can use it are those of us who were already doing so?
Are we surprised that ZDNet thinks (judging by their teaser line in the e-mail of "Let's find out" if a student can "cope" without Windows(tm)) they're the first ones to write this story?

I'm not at all surprised. Many at ZDNet treat Linux as a hobby OS nobody really uses, in spite of the proven fact that a lot of big-name companies do use it for all kinds of things.

But I agree... the test should be longer... and probably will end up being, if the author is seriously trying the OS out. It wouldn't be the first time someone tried it and found it to be what they wanted to keep using.
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It is a 48 hour blog, the test is longer
Claud.Cutler@... 15th Jan 2010
I see so many comments about a 48 hour test being dumb. His comment was that he would do a live blog for 48 hours but would keep using Ubuntu, along with Windows, for a longer period.

Claud
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change is slow
d.woodcroft@... 1st Feb 2010
i understand what you mean. you need more than a
weekend. if we get one more person to look at
freeware, that's one person who knows more. god
only knows that i have tried to get my friends to
try ubuntu and it takes time. Long live freeware!!
You really need to commit to more than 48 hours. A
better test of whether you can use OpenSource is to try and
do something with the technology. When I decided to
really learn Python, I choose to do it about the same time
that my license to Matlab was set to expire. That way, I
had an impetus to make a serious effort. If I was
successful, I would never have to fork over thousands of
dollars for Matlab ever again. If not, then I would know
that I had made an honest effort.

It took three months, but I learned Python. I've even
moved all of our code over to it. Now that we're past the
painful learning stage, people are actually happier (Python
is a much better language in addition to being
OpenSource) and more productive.

I recently decided that I was going to learn R (the statistical
language) and I am repeating the same process. My
license to SPSS has expired, so I have no choice but to use
the software.

Any time that you attempt to learn new tech -- whether it
be application, programming language, or operating
system -- there is a learning curve. To really know
whether you like it, you need to get over and through the
curve. In most cases, that requires more than 48 hours.

If you wanted to do an honest experiment, you should go
at least a week. And even better, a month. During that
time, you should try and do real things: write papers, listen
to music, work on specialty programs, etc. At the end of
the time period, then you could write a real review of
OpenSource in Academia.

I think you might even be surprised at how well
OpenSource meets your needs.
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An interesting test, but what happens ...
mwagner@... 13th Jan 2010
... when you get hit by a truck and your employer needs to find someone else who is intimately familiar with Python or R?
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I guess he just needs to check these boards ...
babyboomer57 Updated - 13th Jan 2010
From what I read here daily there are plenty of self proclaimed Linux experts here to choose from.

Hey, Maybe DT Schmitz is free, he obviously has way too much time on his hands.

Or Maybe Ole Man, he would probably do it for them for free, cause you know that is the only way to go. wink
I disagree with "wackoae" calling the test "stupid" in any sense. Zack's not doing this on the weekend, but at the start of the typical school week(Monday to Tuesday), so there's going to be a tangible effect despite the short time span.

I would consider it a "taste test" of how well a digital native college student can pick up and go with only FOSS software. However, a longer test such as a week would be a good follow-up if the 48 hours ends successfully.
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I'd be pretty shocked if you couldn't.
lostarchitect 8th Jan 2010
I mean, unless you need some kind of specialized software, I
can't imagine that you (or almost anyone else) can't do this for
48 hours.

Try a few months if you really want to do an experiment.
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I'm doing it for almost a year
kulight@... 9th Jan 2010
Except for flash MP3 and their sort.
Studying for B.Sc in information technology
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This will probably be useful for you:
http://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/

Have fun! happy

Pjotr.
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I did it for months..
goodjonx 9th Jan 2010
I decided to write my thesis using only open sourced OS and applications. Using Ubuntu, OpenOffice, Gimp, Inkscape, bibliography tools, software development tools..

I had little experience with Linux and non-Windows applications before, but it worked out extremely well. I didn't miss a thing, didn't even really have to adjust.
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Yawn.
Yagotta B. Kidding 9th Jan 2010
Set the bar lower, Dude. My youngest (sociology) hasn't used anything but Linux (Kubuntu for the last three years) since she left home in 2003, and she's ABD now.
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Contributr
Clarifications
zwhittaker 9th Jan 2010
I agree that sure, it might be best during a longer period of time - but for a blog which is updated pretty much every day, it's not really viable.

Also, I've very very rarely used Linux of any kind. The most I've ever used it was the Nokia N900 a week or two ago now. I've always used Windows and to be plunged into a Linux environment with no knowledge or understanding, firstly this is a good indicator.

48 hours is the benchmark time - I did this for living in the cloud before and makes sense to do it again. This is to simulate the first beginning stages of an ordinary student being plunged into a Linux environment with no prior knowledge or even warning.

So bare with me. I reckon it would be interesting, but for now, it'll do.
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"So bare with me."
Userama 9th Jan 2010
Are you also going to be doing this while naked?
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I'd seriously hope NOT...
Wolfie2K3 Updated - 11th Jan 2010
From his post - it's bloody cold in Blighty!
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Silly statement.
JeremyAllison 11th Jan 2010
Zack Whittaker wrote:

> I've always used Windows and to be plunged into a
> Linux environment with no knowledge or understanding,
> firstly this is a good indicator.

No it isn't. It's a recipe for disaster. Trying to use a different system and having to unlearn something by admission you've "always" used is simply going to confirm your prejudices that "different" equals "bad".

What I expect (and am already starting to see in your blog) is that there'll be something you can't get working that you didn't even prepare for as a criteria for your test, and that after 48 hours you'll be saying something like "Well Linux was OK, but I couldn't do X and that's trivial to do on Windows".

Of *course* it's trivial. Someone set up the box for you (unless you installed your Windows machine yourself, which I very much doubt) and you've been working off years worth of stored knowledge and application setup.

If you want this to be more than a silly stunt, get someone to talk with you about what you really need from the box, set it up for you to fit those needs, and then spend some time with them for a little training. That's the *minimum* preparation you need for this to be more than 48-hours of asking questions online about "how do I do X ?"

When I'm moving someone over to Ubuntu (and my entire family, including 70+ year old in-laws use it) I set the machine up *properly* to do everything the user requires, and then give them at least some minimal training and help when first using the system.

It takes a while to become proficient in something new. 48 hours isn't even time to kick the tires on the new car....

Jeremy.
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You're forgetting something
John Zern 12th Jan 2010
A text to you in seconds, email on the road, apps that tell me where to eat right now

This is the world of "instant gradification".

If a typical users struggles with it for too long with out seeing any real benefit, how long before they switch back?

It reallt isn't a silly statement in the fact that many people want to see that benefit imediatelly, especially if the OS is free as there's "no harm done" to dumping it. Try paying for Linux and I'd bet he stick with it for longer so as to "recoupe his investment"

set the machine up *properly* to do everything the user requires.

That may have said it right there: I guess its easy when you know all the scenerios in which the user will be using the computer.

Zack is a college student, his interest will be evolving, so will his computing needs.
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Contributr
Colleague!
zwhittaker 12th Jan 2010
You seem to be quite an astute gentleman when it comes to open-source, Linux etc., so in which case I kindly request your knowledge and assistance.

Any idea how to get VPN to work? I've installed the drivers, the networking icon ticks over but it just says that the service has failed. Details of it are in the live blog somewhere.

Thanks,

Zack
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Any idea how to get VPN to work?
Yagotta B. Kidding 12th Jan 2010
Which VPN? Lots of variety out there.

For instance, if you are using a Cisco setup you'd be using their AnyConnect client on both the MS and Linux setups -- but that client has known problems, too. On Linux, you can use the OpenConnect client as a plugin to the NetworkManager tools, but OpenConnect does require you to do a couple of setup steps differently from the Cisco client; your IT department won't have done them for you.

In other words, you haven't told us enough to help.
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... student would be able to give you any more information than Zack has already provided?
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Getting your vpn to work.
JeremyAllison 12th Jan 2010
From the blog, it looks like you're missing a network manager component. You're getting the message:

"Failed to execute child process: nm-vpn-properties"(No such file or directory).

As you've already stated your University uses pptp for VPN (a cryptographically broken Microsoft protocol, btw). So click on:

System -> Synaptic Package Manager

(enter your password). Then search for "pptp" in the "Quick Search" box. It wil find the "network-manager-pptp" package. Click on the checkbox and "Mark For Installation". Then click apply. As a dependency this will also install the "pptp-linux" package as well (something you don't need to know to make this work, but you might as well start learning about Linux package dependencies").

Now exit Synaptic, and click on your "network" icon in the bottom bar. Click on "VPN Connections" -> "Configure VPN" and then on "Add" in the dialog that comes up. The only selectable type will be the "Point-to-Point Tunneling Protocol (PPTP). Click on "Create", then add your account details and click "Apply".

All should work from then on. See, pretty damn easy and not a command line in sight. You just have to know how to *properly* install packages. Once you have the hang of Synaptic you will never need to mess with a tar.gz or other install method again.

Jeremy.
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Contributr
Tried that, but it "failed"
zwhittaker 12th Jan 2010
I managed to work that one out through a few online tutorials along with the community help from the live blog. Yet whenever I try and connect, the notification icon spins, then says: "The VPN connection failed" with no other details. I thought this was because it was in a VM, and tried this on my laptop with a native install, and still doesn't work. It doesn't even give me an error code, or anything else to go on. This is what I meant by "unfriendly error messages" in comparison to Windows.

Even though I can't get a very vital student service like VPN to work, I suspect you'll be surprised at my write-up tomorrow. Whilst you've been openly critical of my experiment, my thoughts, my actions and even what I've said, I do hope that you can look aside to your pre-and misconceptions and just roll with me on this one.
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Check the logs.
JeremyAllison 12th Jan 2010
Click on "System" -> "Administration" -> "Log File Viewer" and then look for messages from the VPN service. I agree the message should be displayed in the Network Manager error screen, but nothing ever silently fails on Linux, you just have to know where to look for the logs.

I have been openly critical of your experiment, as I think you did no preparation for it. If you ever want to try again, I'd be happy to help set up a machine for you in advance that would give you a much fairer comparison with the pre-loaded Windows box that you have experience with up until now.

Jeremy.
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But Zack's is still a legitimate test.
mwagner@... 13th Jan 2010
To make inroads into the Windows market, vendors would ask ordinary consumers to buy a new Linux computer to replace an aging Windows computer. Without training.

If the consumer new to Linux cannot become fully functional with Linux in 48 hours, you've lost them. This is a good test for whether Linux is "ready for prime time" or if it is still just a geek's toy.
You commented that, "If the consumer new to Linux cannot become fully functional with Linux in 48 hours, you've lost them. This is a good test for whether Linux is "ready for prime time" or if it is still just a geek's toy."

This criteria of "fully functional in 48 hours" is very interesting to me as I have never been able to fully restore my wife's or my own Windows systems after either infections or other cause for re-installation in less than one full week of evenings (7pm-12pm or later). By your criteria Windows fails. You are exactly right, we gave up on Windows and are running either Linux on our PC hardware or are using Macs. Linux still has a few rough edges, but in our recent experience the specific edges are usually more acceptable to us than some of the rough edges in Windows that many long time Windows users seem to gloss over.

P.S. yes it takes a little effort to set up the printer and Wifi in Linux. In these areas Windows set up is usually faster and easier. However, when I hit a snag in Windows (this happens occasionally) the solution is much more difficult that the worst case Linux solution. I've also heard people find fault with having to get codecs for Linux. With ubuntu the system offers to search for and install the missing codecs. This was much easier than the internet search, download, installation sequences that I had to do to get the same codecs for my Windows player.

Summary: All OSes are mixed bags with good and bad points. According to your 48 hour criteria Windows failed me and my family and Linux and Mac OSX passed. Your experience might vary. But for me Windows is just a geeky toy.
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Zack, I can see your point -- but the real question you have not
addressed is " What are you trying to accomplish... " If you want to
attract some attention to your blog, maybe this will get the geeks to
look at it. But if you are a college student, then surely you've used
computer stuff for a majority of your life. Giving FOSS a 48 hour trial
is like kissing your sister to see if you like sex. My own experience
with *nix is that it is rather like " getting organized." It is a life's work,
not something you just "do" once and for all.

and you might not want to do something so substantial, trial or not,
in the middle of a term. You do it when you can pay serious attention
to it.

best wishes,
tony
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Aye, there's the rub!
mwagner@... 13th Jan 2010
UNIX/Linux still requires too much knowledge on the part of the user.
Well if you really have nearly zero experience with Linux, this might actually be fun.. If you include the installation of the OS on your notebook in that time frame, there's about a 20% chance you'll spend half of those 48 hours trying to get wireless, audio or video to work properly happy
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9.10 does that automaticly
mjolnar@... 11th Jan 2010
It is painless, with only a knowledge of how to use a computer. The only thing you will have trouble with is things that require MS, like drivers for MS products, and a few websites that don't want everyone viewing their videos because they use Silverlight 3.

There are plenty of free programs that will do everything you can do with MS. Have fun and make the switch. When you find out how easy it is and how few problems, you won't want to go back to MS.
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Whoaa there pardner ......
babyboomer57 11th Jan 2010
"It is painless, with only a knowledge of how to use a computer. The only thing you will have trouble with is things that require MS, like drivers for MS products"

I have two, both relatively new, notebooks that will prove that wrong. On one everything except the video will work, on the other video and wireless don't work. I am not a Linux expert by any means, but when you install Ubuntu using WUBI while everything is working, you would expect it to work when you boot Ubuntu. Maybe not if installing from a clean boot to CD, but definitely when installing from a Windows environment and the installer still loads the wrong drivers for things.

When they get it right, I'll try again, but for now it still needs work.
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Hardware support is not 100%
goodjonx 12th Jan 2010
That was my experience as well. While ATI support has improved with 9.10, it's not guaranteed that your specific video chip will give you flicker-free, acceptable speed, adequate resolution graphics.
Especially older notebooks may not give you sound with Linux, too bad considering Linux is (was) supposed to be a good alternative to Windows on older hardware.
Also, I had to buy a new pcmcia nic because my Netgear wasn't supported.
So yeah, I love GNU/Linux and especially Ubuntu, but I never recommend it to anyone without a fair warning..
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Hardware support:
rshores 12th Jan 2010
I'm going to echo that.... I had to buy 3 different NICs to get one that finally worked with Ubuntu.

Maybe part of the issue is with the hardware manufacturers not denoting on the box that their hardware is certified (and drivers available) for Linux, but Linux will never be accepted in the mainstream until Joe Six-Pack can go to Fry's and pick up a piece of hardware, knowing that it'll work with his system.

He'll have to have a geek install it for him - most users want to be self-sufficient.
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re: Hardware support:
n0neXn0ne Updated - 12th Jan 2010
"He'll have to have a geek install it for him - most users want to be self-sufficient."

They are called " geek squad" at your local "Best-Buy".

^o^

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Naw...
rshores 12th Jan 2010
One of the fine Linux lurkers in here could probably do it for him though.

Geek squad's worthless.
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What Best Buy do you go to ? ,,,,
babyboomer57 12th Jan 2010
The ones here in my part of NC don't have a clue with Windows, I shudder to think what would happen if I took them a Linux box.
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When you load it WUBI, it is somewhat like loading it in Virtual Box. Windows has a chance to get things wrong, they will never pass up that chance.

If you load it dual boot, it is no problem. My son wanted me to load it in Virtual Box, but then you couldn't use the 3D effects.
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Like I said ....
babyboomer57 13th Jan 2010
I installed it using WUBI, and then booting to the live CD as a dual boot setup. Neither worked.

Long since given up trying.
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I've got an eMachine in my living room, an old Gateway next to my couch, a generic model I bought used and an Acer Extensa 5420, none had problems with the installation and all are fully functional machines with Ubuntu on 2, Linux Mint on the eMachines and Xubuntu on the old Gateway.

I've also got Xubuntu on another old Gateway set up for my aunt and have tried a LiveCD on a neighbors 5 year old laptop that's been struck by lightning.

On all those machines, I've had zero problems with the video and on all but one, I've had no connection problems at all. My neighbors machine, which was struck by lightning, is the only one I've had problems with.

Also, have you tried a LiveCD rather than Wubi? You'll be surprised how much different (i.e. better) the LiveCD is compared to just installing Ubuntu as a Windows app.

They've gotten it right, try giving them a full chance.
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One of the machines is a 1 year old HP DV9000. It has a proprietary Nvidia chipset that both HP and Nvidia admit there is no Linux driver for. It installs the Nvidia drivers that are available, then locks me in to 800x600 mode with the desktop bigger than the 17" monitor, and no way to scroll the desktop up and down or side to side. Hence, you cannot see everything in some windows or get to buttons to control them. So much for that experiment.

The other was a 3 year old Everex Stepnote. I have since given it away, but both the video and wireless cards were properly identified, but there was no way to get it to activate the wireless card, and no one I asked (including forums) were any help. The machine's native video was some goofy resolution that there was no choice to change to, and all of the others presented would not allow me to set the refresh rate, and everything but the one it defaulted to caused the screen to freak out. Unfortunately, again, the default was 800x600 and the same problem with not being able to see or get to the entire desktop.

I do, however have a Compaq desktop that works very well with Ubuntu, and I occasionally boot into it and use it, but it does not offer me anything that I don't have with Windows and all the apps I use on Windows, so it will never be my main operating system on it.

I do not knock Linux, just overzealous Linux users that think that MS sucks and Linux rules. If that is their choice, fine, but don't call me names and tell me what an idiot I am because I don't agree with you. I have had my share of posts deleted for telling those kind of people what I really think of them, and though I try to ignore them now, I am sure it will happen again.

That last statement was not meant for you, tmsbrdrs, you are one of the few who appear to actually want to do more than start flame wars on ZDnet. More of your 'friends' should take a lesson from you. You people know who you are, you have almost ALL posted on this thread.
Ubuntu & Open Office have everything a student should
need. Its a different matter entirely if the faculty
forces microsoft technology on you, such as C# and MSSQL
instead of letting the student choose the technology but
still follow the course guidelines.
Every journey begins with a single step.
I've been reading your columns for a while and you have good observations.

The more people like you try open source in a very visible way and give an honest report of the outcome the more others will be willing to try it.

I've been in this doing this since you had to punch your own cards and submit the deck at a window.
Innovation and flexibility will win in the end.

In short: GO FOR IT!
As long as there is linux involved then the answer will be no. That will be 48 hours you will spend trying to install, configure, and compile software. You won't have any time to actually use the PC. If you make it through all that and want to see if you can go fully open source for 48 hours then its pretty much just leaving the PC on and not touching it for 2 days. That's about as good as its going to get when you throw linux into the mix.

I'll suggest you use PC-BDS or DesktopBSD for your open source operating system. From there you can use Firefox for your browsing needs.
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Contributr
I'm actually prepping before hand
zwhittaker 9th Jan 2010
I'm running it in a virtual machine. See, I considered sticking it on my laptop or as a dedicated partition, but frankly it was a pain. Although I'll be in Windows, I'll be in full screen in Ubuntu in the virtual machine. I know, it's not perfect - and I have to be strict with myself - but this is the easiest way. At least this way, all the drivers work automatically. I'll be using this weekend to install the software I need using all of your suggestions (which by the way I greatly appreciate! happy ) to make sure that I can start on Monday. This way, it simulates a machine which is already prepared that this "ordinary" student can begin using straight away.

That sounds OK chaps? I'm trying to make it as fair as possible, but need your thoughts on this to make it as realistic as possible. happy
i hope that it works for you. i'm 48, and believe the original idea of: "that's cool. can i try it?". one day
people will have more choice. People have lost what it
means to own a pc. some people love pcs, and playing with
them all the time. i never realized what a pc was, until
i came to freeware. one of the reasons that i didn't want Linux is that a friend of mine said that Linux would take
over my pc. now i know that windows and Linux can run
side by side. it's more fun than a barrel full of
monkeys!!

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ie8 fix

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ie8 fix