ie8 fix

Microsoft-Yahoo!: Combine, compete, crush

By | July 30, 2009, 12:40pm PDT

Summary: Will the Microsoft-Yahoo! deal really offer anything to users? Eventually, slightly better advertisements. The entire deal is a front for Microsoft to take on their arch-nemesis, Google. Here it is, explained, in gross detail. Article

Yesterday saw the announcement that Microsoft and Yahoo! would team up together and share each other’s technologies to a degree. In short, Microsoft’s search engine Bing, previously known as Live Search, would power Yahoo!, while Yahoo! provides Microsoft with the sales force it needs through advertisements.

I didn’t really think about this too much when it was announced. Frankly, I was glad that the Microsoft-Yahoo! news was finally out and everyone could shut the hell up about it. That was until my best friend Elliot rang me earlier last night and started contemplating the deal over the phone.

Combine

You don’t even need to read between the lines on this one. There are two main things to understand.

  1. What Yahoo! gets:
    Both CEO’s of Microsoft and Yahoo! have made it quite clear in their intentions. Merging these two companies, on the surface, they intend to generate more money and provide “boatloads of value for our users and industry”, as well as “accelerating innovation and bringing more value to advertisers and web users.” Yahoo! will get 88% of the revenue with no cost, which will be good news for their sliding profits.
  2. What Microsoft gets:
    As Yahoo! CEO, Carol Bartz says in a phone interview, “Microsoft - who we know is maniacal about the search business, can take a run against Google.”

That, to me, is basically it. Yahoo! gets its much needed profits in this case, and Microsoft which has plenty of profits over the course of the years gets to take a massive swipe at Google; something they have been wanting to do for years, especially in recent times after Google took their first offensive move. Now they have their opportunity.

The end user gets nothing. What you read before is corporate bull-talk for “you’ll experience extremely little else to what you experience now”. What will change, which you probably won’t even notice, is that the advertising will get slightly more relevant to the user, and instead of having two search engines, you’ll have one - Bing.

I think it is fair to say that most of Yahoo! Search has gone to a better place - the rubbish bin - with the exception of mail search and instant messaging.

Compete

This has clearly been on the cards for a while, and been going on behind the scenes for some time. My editor-in-chief, Larry Dignan, wrote extensively yesterday on the deal. Regulators will still need to give the all-clear on this because two huge companies combining with the sole aim of crippling another would most certainly elicit regulator questions. This could enable Microsoft-Yahoo! to begin “work” towards the end of 2010, which again suggests this has been going on for at least a year.

Even though Yahoo! Search on the face of it has gone, the code could well be used to make Bing better. It’s important to point out that between Microsoft and Yahoo!’s sites, all you will see is Bing search. Under the hood could likely be some modifications to Bing, once Microsoft works out what Yahoo!’s code means, but as of yet nothing has been set in stone - or at least if it has, it isn’t public knowledge yet.

A big problem which needs to be overcome is what the regulators say. Because my grasp of international law and computing law is limited to that of the UK alone (and even then, our computing laws are old and outdated), it is not yet known whether the European Commission can wade in and start pulling their weight around.

As Microsoft and Yahoo! are both focusing on their web portals in this deal, I can’t logically see how the EC can input any influence, as EC decisions are made up of parliamentarians from each European country. This, then, would only affect countries in the European Union so ultimately it will be North America’s authorities who are most likely to pick through the deal with a fine tooth comb.

Crush

Regardless of whether the EC gets involved again, something I hope that gets mentioned is the “hard to forget” court battle Microsoft had with the EU between 2004 and 2006. Amongst many things, one of the main issues was that:

Microsoft abused its virtual monopoly in the computer world to muscle out smaller rivals, especially those that make media players and software for servers.”

This in itself can be manipulated many ways to provide different arguments. Personally I see this as Microsoft using their dominance and virtual monopoly in the computer world, alongside Yahoo! and their lesser but still significant dominance and monopoly, to muscle out a rival. Regardless of whether Google is a smaller or larger rival, it shouldn’t make the blindest bit of difference.

This is how the search engine statistics show at the moment. It’s a rough guide because no matter how hard you try, statistics across a number of organisations vary, hence the need for the approximation symbol. Even if Yahoo! scraps their search engine and brings on Bing, it will combine the users from both sites and amount to around-about one-fifth of the US market share. Weigh this against Google which has roughly four-fifths of the US market share, you can clearly see that Bing still hasn’t got the oomph that it needs to take on the search giant.

Google has said that the Microsoft-Yahoo! deal may hurt the competition, but also that it might reduce innovation. I believe at this point, and maybe even for the next couple of years at very least, Google is well and truly safe in what they have accomplished with their massive majority of the market share dominance. That is though due to people using it and wanting to use it. The Microsoft-Yahoo! deal forces at least those in the Yahoo! user camp to use Bing, should they not decide to go elsewhere.

What is likely however is the remaining competition such as Altavista, AllTheWeb, Lycos, Cuil and Entireweb could be left entirely out in the dark with little or no-one to defend them. Some would argue that these have low rankings due to the lack of quality the search engines have, the reduced number of resources or tools on offer, or simply that they haven’t got their marketing tweaked. But they still have the right to be able to offer their service to whoever wants it. The Microsoft-Yahoo! reduces this by teaming up to provide one search engine.

The final point this student journalist wants to make is this somewhat poignant question. Is this how we want the next-generation of (in their own words) consumer choice and corporate innovation to look like? Leave a TalkBack and share your thoughts and opinions. After all, that is what it’s there for.

Kick off your day with ZDNet's daily e-mail newsletter. It's the freshest tech news and opinion, served hot. Get it.

Topics

Zack Whittaker, a criminologist who studied at the University of Kent, Canterbury, is a journalist, writer and broadcaster.

Disclosure

Zack Whittaker

I worked briefly with Microsoft UK in 2006 but no longer have any connection with the company. Regardless, I remain impartial and unbiased in my views.

I don't hold any stock or shares, investments or industrial secrets in any company, but have signed confidentiality agreements with a number of UK and U.S. organisations, whose names I am not at liberty to disclose.

I was involved with Kent Union, the University of Kent's student union, undertaking voluntary, non-salaried, elected positions between early 2009 and mid-2010.

No other company, body, government department, non-governmental organisation or third sector organisation employs me or pays me a salary in any capacity whatsoever.

As a freelance journalist, whenever expenses are given and taken by a company that is not CBS Interactive, these will be disclosed in each relevant post to ensure transparency.

I currently work with a UK law enforcement unit, but this is an entirely separate position which bears no connection to other work.

(Updated: 23rd October 2011)

Biography

Zack Whittaker

Zack Whittaker, criminologist who studied at the University of Kent, UK, is a journalist, writer and broadcaster.

After studying criminology at university, though still in his early-20's, he has already had a series unconventional work and voluntary positions. He has worked with researchers studying neurological illnesses like Tourette's syndrome (which he suffers from), has given lectures on the nature of disabilities in the public community, and occasionally ends up speaking on television and radio discussing the events of the day.

He first had academic work published at the age of 22, then still an undergraduate, and has been cited by a wide range of publications: from the Huffington Post, Business Insider, AllThingsDigital, The Atlantic Wire and CBS News.

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RE: Microsoft-Yahoo!: Combine, compete, crush
Mage Ronin 3rd Sep 2009
It's "Bing it!"
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I love that Google graphic
GuidingLight 30th Jul 2009
where did that come from?
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Agreed!
Loverock Davidson 30th Jul 2009
That has to be one of the best Google logos I've ever seen. Absolutely hilarious.
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Contributr
Cheers!
zwhittaker 30th Jul 2009
Although, to be frank, it doesn't really make sense. I was trying to show that Google will resist this deal entirely... but somehow I kinda got a lit-tt-tt-ll-e too involved with the graphic and couldn't stop playing with it.

It *pained* me to type in "band aid" instead of "plaster" into Google (the irony) to get a picture up, mind you. Was only telling my editor earlier in the day how much our beautiful language has been... "changed"...
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I love the "g" with the walker
mgp3 31st Jul 2009
Excellent job, Zack!
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however, it's got the wrong message
stevey_d 30th Jul 2009
microsoft and yahoo are the geriatrics here, so should have the zimmer. Also, Microsoft has been beaten up for the second quarter (or about 15th year in the online market), so the graphic belies a somewhat pathetic attempt to hide the truth of the situation.

It's google thats the young, vibrant corporation going places. MIcrosoft/Yahoo are trying to pretend they are going somewhere, like sad old people going to young people's clubs, with hair dye, false teeth and so on, pretending to be more hip than the youngsters... I mean come on, it's too funny.
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Concur
bigpicture 3rd Aug 2009
It is about MS having to compete in a marketplace that
is strange to them. One where they don't have a
dominating monopoly, nor any effective way to "cut off
the air supply". They don't seem to do so good in that
kind of business environment, nor in courtrooms
recently either.
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Contributr
I made it. Paint.NET ftw!
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the crush will be on...
Linux Geek 30th Jul 2009
M$ and Yahoo who did not listen to OSS community requests and fight against a FOSS benefactor: Google.
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Beware wolf...
CrashPad 30th Jul 2009
in sheeps clothing. Do no evil my ass.
It's not me, it's him you have to worry about. (Chomp chomp).
I like MS ; they just make me feel and then I realize how irrelevent I am around me.
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Bing will gain from Yahoo going out of the game (which has been losing 1% ever 5 or 6 months for 2 years running).
Google will gain (as people leave Yahoo if they don't go with Bing)
Ask (could gain, though mostly they have been losing and are below 1%)

As per OSS, both Google and Bing use Hadoop, though the internal engine is different. Google has a major share in most every country as they set out to "organize the worlds information", whereas Bing is more a search marketing engine to generate more ad revenues for Microsoft and Yahoo (based upon the marketing hype).

Yahoo has effectively gotten out of the search game as indicated by their falling share (currently between 5.5% and 9%) in search usage (at roughly 1% every 5 to 6 months). If Microsoft can do what they did with MSN and Live (as per Bing) with Yahoo, their percentage will drop off much more quickly.
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supporting open-source??
kaninelupus 31st Jul 2009
Only so long as it suits them, Am still waiting to see just how quickly they lock down with patents, this Chrome OS we keep hearing about.
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"Right to offer their service ..."
lalogos 3rd Aug 2009
Analysis: not bad.

You make the classic "EU-commie" logic error, though, and I quote: "they [small search engines, like Cuil] still have the right to be able to offer their service to whoever wants it... [MS-Yahoo] reduces this ..."

Perhaps I'm too American to understand European socialism. But how does MS-Yahoo infringe on "the right" of small search engines to offer their services? You want to explain that one to me? Does the existence of MS-Yahoo suddenly change the protocols so that, suddenly, when you attempt to navigate to http://www.Cuil.com, it gets blocked?

The "right" you seem to be talking about is the ENTITLEMENT to not get your feelings hurt and lose money when your entrepreneurial outings take a big fat splat on the canvas of failure. Sorry--it's a tough world out there. You win some, you lose some.

You'd better get a clearer understanding of "rights" and "infringement." Asserting that MS-Yahoo "infringes" on any rights is like saying someone building a house next to yours on their own private property "infringes" on your "right" to not have any neighbors. These are non-existent "rights."

You're a student? Good article. Keep plugging away. And keep sharpening your analytical skills. You've got a future.
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Contributr
I am a student
zwhittaker 3rd Aug 2009
Thanks for that last comment. It's comments like that which help me wake up in the morning happy
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Exactly!
Capt_Caveman 4th Aug 2009
Nicely said Lalogos! That exact theme stuck out to me as I finished the article. You beat me to the draw!
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"...their arch-nemesis, Google."
BigTipper 3rd Aug 2009
Exactly who isn't Google the arch-nemesis of? My impression is that they want to take over the world, much like Microsoft.

Hard to make friends when you're bent on world domination.
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RE: Microsoft-Yahoo!: Combine, compete, crush
foothillbilly@... 3rd Aug 2009
I believe that Microsoft sees anyone in the software
business as their enemy in the long run, especially
anyone that outperforms them in any way, as Google does.
What Yahoo sees probably is short-term dollar signs. I
like Yahoo's email, and I'd like them to survive some
other way. I'm a student of history, and MicroSoft
historically is equally dangerous whether they say you're
their ally or their competitor.
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Well said. Let's look at this with our glasses on. Microsoft has well
established what it is. Yahoo! will probably end up being grease in the
gears. Too bad. Competition is healthy and good for the customers (us).
MS doesn't care about us. Does Google (Do No Evil)? Time will tell...
but why did you provide a a graph which only shows the situation in the US for a single month, June 2009 ? Do you mean to suggest that that particular country constitutes the only relevant market for firms like Google and Microsoft (Yahoo having now committed seppuku need hardly be considered) ? Let us hope that those responsible for directing the fates of these companies take a wider view - the world is a far bigger place than the United States - with or without Alaska. A more relevant graph than the one you present, and which also has the advantage of showing trends, would be the following, also from StatCounter : http://preview.tinyurl.com/mef9l4 ....

Henri
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Contributr
See - I should have done...
zwhittaker 3rd Aug 2009
it like you said. I should have shown an average over a number of months, but instead opted for the latest month.

If I'm honest, I wasn't sure of the accuracy of StatCounter (which now, I am aware it's a very reliable source of search engine data) which is why I showed the difference in the way that I did. I'll be using it in future, for sure.
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I think your analysis is right on. This puts some wind underneath the stalling wings of Yahoo, at least for the short term, while Microsoft gets bragging rights for a bigger market share. It means nothing, except perhaps less choice, for the end user.

Full disclosure, my son started work as a contract employee for BING customer service today, so in that sense, I get something out of it...He can start paying his own rent and car insurance.
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One of the biggest reasons I like the basic Google page is I don't have to look at tons of crap. (I use Firefox with popup blockers.) I go to a search page to search; not to read all of that garbage often left there. The other content on the page is as obnoxious as a laugh track that attempts to convince you something is funny that is not. If the Microsoft/Yahoo marriage offers the same clean interface as Google then maybe we can do an oranges to oranges comparison.
When I hear all the talk about "leveraging market share" and "focused advertising" I run away. I avoid MS and Yahoo pages now for that reason. There is no incentive here for me to leave Google.
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wont change my search preferences. It will only improve advertising and add none essential crap on the screen
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Won't bother me a bit, in fact because Microsoft is associated with it I'll be even less likely to to use Yahoo!

Before Google I used Altavista. I didn't see where Yahoo! is or was any better than Google. As I am an Apple Mac User and the history MS has with Apple. If I didn't have to use MS Office. I wouldn't have anything from MS on my Computer.
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another joust ?
The Management consultant 3rd Aug 2009
MS has decided that their once monoploy of the retail desktop is coming to an end and is jumping ship to arest declining revenues....Presumably all MS products will be loaded with bling from now on.In the UK bling is a less than flattering term which twitter will discuss sooner or later!!

To me this is an interesting move.hopefully it will get Google behind oracle to speed up development of Opensolaris to batter MS in the enterprise market...anyone for chess?
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Ever hear of 'diversification'?
Marty R. Milette 4th Aug 2009
Google is entering NUMEROUS markets but nobody seems to mind that. You only hear complaints when Microsoft tries to do the same thing.

One would assume that as, "Management Consultant" you would have heard of the term DIVERSIFICATION? No?
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diversification
pjones 4th Aug 2009
That's True. But Google is working from the Ground up, Microsoft from the time of it's existence to now has never created a piece of software in their life. Even MS DOS started our as DR DOS or another of the DOS flavors.

Everything has been hostile take overs, or while not legally according to US laws Theft designs created by other companies. example had Apple not come out with the Macintosh GUI interface. There would be no Windows. Everyone would still be using DOS or some variation. Many of their software applications came from software designers that came out with great ideas but ran out of funds. So they offered a pittance. Probably paid ten cent on the dollars what it was really worth. Because the people were hurting.

That's not saying it was an original concept. Originally it was the Xerox PARC project which Xerox abandoned and Apple bought the right to the concept. But the OS come up with was an Apple Original design.

Even MS system prevalence on computers it was due to heavy duty Arm Twist from MS. You make MS DOS the system of your choice and you be promoted, you don't we will make you life miserable. (Carrot and stick approach to each computer Maker. Now its simply used because its the 800 pound Gorilla.

You don't see none of that for now with Google. If they get big enough they probably will turn into such though. sad
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You've gotta be kidding...
Marty R. Milette 6th Aug 2009
Google 'working from the ground up'???

You've gotta be kidding...

They are the biggest parasites of intellectual assets on the planet.

If it wasn't for F/OSS Google wouldn't exist.
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Diversification
minardi 4th Aug 2009
can be good or it can be terribly wrong. I rather be the best in one sector than mediocre in many. I don't give much hope to Google OS or phone... they are both losing endeavours.
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Yeah. AT&T bought Bellsouth (my ISP) and then Yahoo. Had to switch everything over. Guess they should call the new company MicroHooSouth or YaSoft or something. The DSL service started suquing really big there for a while.
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Delive no change except move VB
ttariku2004 3rd Aug 2009
I don't trust the intention of Microsoft. They monopolized OS, Games, Multimedia, and office applications. Their Bing didn't work effectively, regardless the fancy images. Now they are into the yahoo search? I don't think they will bring anything new on the table except introduce more of their VB and .net stuff. I think Microsoft has nothing to offer beside their bully behaviors against emerging companies.
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IMHO, the search merger will have slightly less effect on
the overall search market than Google Docs has had on the
Office Applications market.

Sure, there will be a buzz but ultimately, people are
resistant to change.
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I don't really think 'Ads' are the selling point for Google. It's ease of use and features for everyone makes it stand out from the crowd, I think. For example, people with slow connections have an option to get a different version of GMail and people with High-Speed connections have an option to get another version of GMail, both apt for the situation. I don't understand why people at other corporations can't get this.

Great Backgrounds, Ads and other features are other useful ingredients. Without a good basic functionality, they mean nothing.
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MS crushed NetScape and then sat on their laurels for about 6-7 years with IE and their SE - - While during that time they have & had the pieces and opportunity to really improve the whole experience but did nothing.
Now they are in a catch up game and we will have to see if they can meet the call and then how they offer this to the community. Paying for it directly by the user community is no longer an option.
If they do not belley up, they stand to lose the whole show.
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RE: Microsoft-Yahoo!: Combine, compete, crush
hilbertdbp@... 3rd Aug 2009
more garbage and ads than what you are looking
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it doesnt matter what search engine you use. You will only get results from companies that pay the search companies for being shown first. The company that pay gets top billing. And 8 times out of 10 its not what I am looking for. So microsoft bing is nothing but dung too many bells and whistles. Give me something simple and not a bunch of garbage
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Innovation
angie_711 4th Aug 2009
Seems that MS and Yahoo like to emphasize the "innovation" that can come out of their deal and compete with Google. Google has innovation down to a science... nimble, quick and uninhibited, MS... ummm, not so much. MS turns like an aircraft carrier, Google turns like a fighter jet. I think this is actually a opportunity for Google, Yahoo, while always slower than Google, will now be even slower to move, despite access to MS tech and cash, due to MS' monolithic and bloated approach to basically everything they do.
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MS BS & Yahoo Praying
Enorton42@... 5th Aug 2009
MS search is bullsh*t and garbage in my opinion, Google is the only thing used around here. Yahoo is praying for someone from somewhere to keep them from going away like the plague of old.

MS is a giant but thanks to Google it's not the only giant in the areana!
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Poorly reasoned and not particularly well thought out.
DeusExMachina Updated - 5th Aug 2009
First, the fact that the predicted advantages to both Y! and
MS were not immediately obvious is a bit sad, especially
given that Ballmer has said as much himself several times,
as reported on by numerous outlets, including ZDNet.

"Microsoft which has plenty of profits over the course of
the years gets to take a massive swipe at Google;
something they have been wanting to do for years,
especially in recent times after Google took their first
offensive move. Now they have their opportunity."

And? How does this deal further that? It does not get MS
any more capital, nor does it really get them a new search
engine, other than some old Y! code that already can't
compete against Google. Yahoo's share in search is rapidly
falling, so I fail to see how this advances this stated
opportunity. They also had a bigger share of search before,
in the early days of MSN, and lost that to Google. So they
had this same opportunity before, so how is this different?

"The end user gets nothing. What you read before is
corporate bull-talk for ?you?ll experience extremely little
else to what you experience now?. What will change, which
you probably won?t even notice, is that the advertising will
get slightly more relevant to the user, and instead of
having two search engines, you?ll have one - Bing."

And if the end user notices nothing, how exactly are you
claiming that this deal is going to reverse the slide of both
Y! and MS in search?!? With no obvious benefit to the end
user, they will continue to jump ship, just as they are now.

"This has clearly been on the cards for a while, and been
going on behind the scenes for some time. My editor-in-
chief, Larry Dignan, wrote extensively yesterday on the
deal."

The fact that Dignan wrote about it yesterday does not
prove that it has been in the cards for a while. The fact that
it is common knowledge, however... .

" Regulators will still need to give the all-clear on this
because two huge companies combining with the sole aim
of crippling another would most certainly elicit regulator
questions. This could enable Microsoft-Yahoo! to begin
?work? towards the end of 2010, which again suggests this
has been going on for at least a year."

Huh?!? First, how are you claiming that regulators looking
at the deal will enable them to begin work in late 2010?
that makes no sense at all. Beyond that, how does their
beginning work at the end of 2010 in any way imply
anything in terms of how long the deal has been in the
works? They are logically unrelated.

"Because my grasp of international law and computing law
is limited to that of the UK alone (and even then, our
computing laws are old and outdated), it is not yet known
whether the European Commission can wade in and start
pulling their weight around."

How does your lack of knowledge about international law
have anything to do with whether the EC can "wade in?" Or
do you mean that since you don't know, you don't know? In
which case, why are you even writing it?

"As Microsoft and Yahoo! are both focusing on their web
portals in this deal, I can?t logically see how the EC can
input any influence, as EC decisions are made up of
parliamentarians from each European country"

And again, how does the fact that EC decisions are made
up of parliamentarians (how are decisions made up of
people who support a parliamentarian form of
government?) imply that you can't see how the EC can have
any influence? Again, that makes no sense, and is just
word salad.

You do this in almost every paragraph, preface an
independent clause with a completely unrelated dependent
clause, implying a causal or logical connection that is not
there and makes no sense. Like here:
"Regardless of whether the EC gets involved again,
something I hope that gets mentioned is the ?hard to
forget? court battle Microsoft had with the EU between
2004 and 2006."

Huh?!?

"alongside Yahoo! and their lesser but still significant
dominance and monopoly, to muscle out a rival."

You can't have a "lesser dominance or monopoly." That is
linguistic nonsense, and legally absurd.

You then proceed to present a pseudo-mathematical
argument which essentially disproves your original point!

"What is likely however is the remaining competition such
as Altavista, AllTheWeb, Lycos, Cuil and Entireweb could be
left entirely out in the dark with little or no-one to defend
them."

How the heck do you figure that?!? From their perspective,
nothing changes. Those who use their search have no
greater incentive to switch to either Y!Bing or Google, and
no compelling reason to leave their current search engine.

"But they still have the right to be able to offer their service
to whoever wants it. The Microsoft-Yahoo! reduces this by
teaming up to provide one search engine."

Again, this is logical nonsense. MS and Y! teaming up IN NO
WAY reduces the ability of other search providers to offer
their service. In fact, Google could buy Y! and combine
with MS and it STILL would not affect the others. People
who go there go there willingly, and the others combining
does not prevent this, or even provide any kind of pressure
to limit their ability to use their search engine of choice in
exactly the way they do now.

Sorry, but this reads much like some of the rambling,
poorly structured writings of my local University papers,
with disjointed sentence structure, poorly organized
content, and no discernible logical flow, either as a whole
or from paragraph to paragraph.

But the fault here can be spread wider, as these things are
all things that should have been caught by any even
remotely competent editor. The fact that this article was so
replete with these issues makes a very loud statement
about the quality of those editors, and ZDNet in general.
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RE: Microsoft-Yahoo!: Combine, compete, crush
homerjarvis@... 2nd Sep 2009
"poignant question" thats a laugh... where were you when
google took over..! I think that MS will do what it
always does .... take over if possible or buy if not.
Google in my humble opinion. Is getting too big for it's
britches. They are really spread thin with the new
netbook op system and their lifeblood search system.. I
think its time for MS/Yahoo to come up with a new
word..... Like let's "google" it.... I don't know like
"Yasoft it"
0 Votes
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It's "Bing it!"

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