ie8 fix

Poll: Windows 8: What do you want, and what do you need?

By | April 7, 2011, 3:03am PDT

Summary: Quick poll: Most of you are part-enterprise, part-consumers. With this in mind, what do you want out of Microsoft’s next generation operating system, Windows 8?

There is an odd air of mystery around the next-generation operating system from Microsoft. Windows 8 was dubbed by Steve Ballmer, CEO, as the “riskiest product bet” to date.

Simply put, it will be if it turns up in the stores and we don’t want or need half of the features in there.

But unlike with previous releases like ‘Longhorn’ (Vista) and Windows 7, there has been only the tinest of trickles of reliable information and news out of Redmond. At this stage, we know of only a few features, like an in-built PDF reader and roaming user profiles; though only suggested by an ominous looking icon in the taskbar.

I suggested last month one of the reasons this may be the case, with mysterious wallpapers on internal Windows 8 machines, suggests that screenshots could be traced back to the employee or vendor who leaks them.

With a lack of screenshots or leaks comes a lack of knowledge, understanding and features in the upcoming operating system. Instead of asking why the leaks are thin and slow — Mary Jo Foley covered that already, it would be interesting to see what people want and need in their next-generation Windows.

So, to test the field and gain a sense of who wants what and why, with you as the litmus paper, it will be interesting to see what part-enterprise and part-consumer who have a foot in both camps want to see in the next version of Windows.

I am yet to find a killer ’academic’ feature for the upcoming release, as logistically a new user interface will not help the learning process. Kinect support may, but it’s looking likely that the cloud will hold the answers. That is, if the Patriot Act doesn’t get in the way.

Poll

What is the most important feature that you would like to see in Windows 8?

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Topics

Zack Whittaker, a criminologist who studied at the University of Kent, Canterbury, is a journalist, writer and broadcaster.

Disclosure

Zack Whittaker

I worked briefly with Microsoft UK in 2006 but no longer have any connection with the company. Regardless, I remain impartial and unbiased in my views.

I don't hold any stock or shares, investments or industrial secrets in any company, but have signed confidentiality agreements with a number of UK and U.S. organisations, whose names I am not at liberty to disclose.

I was involved with Kent Union, the University of Kent's student union, undertaking voluntary, non-salaried, elected positions between early 2009 and mid-2010.

No other company, body, government department, non-governmental organisation or third sector organisation employs me or pays me a salary in any capacity whatsoever.

As a freelance journalist, whenever expenses are given and taken by a company that is not CBS Interactive, these will be disclosed in each relevant post to ensure transparency.

I currently work with a UK law enforcement unit, but this is an entirely separate position which bears no connection to other work.

(Updated: 23rd October 2011)

Biography

Zack Whittaker

Zack Whittaker, criminologist who studied at the University of Kent, UK, is a journalist, writer and broadcaster.

After studying criminology at university, though still in his early-20's, he has already had a series unconventional work and voluntary positions. He has worked with researchers studying neurological illnesses like Tourette's syndrome (which he suffers from), has given lectures on the nature of disabilities in the public community, and occasionally ends up speaking on television and radio discussing the events of the day.

He first had academic work published at the age of 22, then still an undergraduate, and has been cited by a wide range of publications: from the Huffington Post, Business Insider, AllThingsDigital, The Atlantic Wire and CBS News.

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RE: Poll: Windows 8: What do you want, and what do you need?
BlazingEagle 17th Apr 2011
I?m settling into Windows 7 & even from a nonpersonal perspective. It?s too soon for Windows 8. I?m NOT against Windows 8, I just feel it?s way too soon for Windows 8 with Win 7 still being a quite recent release.

I?m NOT anti-progress mind you, It?s just progress moves at light speed that it?s hard to keep up.
Most of the items on the list are already included in Win8, if you go by the leaks.


Fast startup: Depends on Hardware, settings and software installed on a PC.
Faster and more advanced backup: Already in the card as per leaks.
Kinect support: MS is already writing a driver. Why need it in the OS itself? If you buy a Kinect device, you will get the driver, simple.
A new user interface ('Aero 2.0'): As per leaks, Metro Tiles, Immersion.
A new, 'basic' user interface for low powered PCs: Already in the card, software accelerated.
In-built PDF reader: Already in the card as per leaks.
Application store: Already in the card, BTW, Internet is the App store for Windows.
Tablet/slate support: That?s why Metro UI is for.
Extensive driver support: Already there with Win7, its an ongoing process.
64-bit only support: If you have a 64 machine, install 64 bit windows, what?s your problem if I get to install 32 bit?
Fingerprint and facial recognition security: technology needs to mature first.
In-built Office features like Word/PowerPoint Viewers: Office Web??
'Push reset': quick wipe-and-reinstall functionality: Already in the card as per leaks.
@Raju Das
My problem with you installing 32bit is that you're holding back software development. Few companies want to develop 32 and 64 bit programs - if we move to 64 bit only then progress will speed up.

It's akin to alternate fuel source research, the day we run out of oil is the day we'll speend up that research.
@p0figster - what, precisely will porting apps to 64-bit speed up "progress"?

The only apps that will benefit from being ported to 64-bit are apps that need to consume more than 2GB RAM per instance. Things like high-end image and video editing tools, financial & mathematical analysis tools, engineering & CAD/CAM tools, databases, etc.

The vast majority of apps will get NO benefit from moving to 64-bit since the apps will get bigger on disk because all pointers and int's will double in size resulting in an average of 25-35% increase in physical file size. This will therefore require increased IO bandwidth to get said data to/from disk/network/etc. and cache coherency will decrease, slowing performance.

64-bit is not some magical nitrus-oxide injector for your code.
@Raju Das - some fair points. Here are my thoughts:

Fast startup: a Windows that boots up in 20 seconds or less

My Sony Vaio Z Series laptop running Win7 already cold-boots in under 20s. Admittedly, it's SSD's help with this and, yes, some improvements could be made to the boot-up process to speed things along for users with spinning disks, but one rarely needs to reboot these days so it's less of an issue. I'd rather see improvements to the time required to resume from hibernation which takes longer than a cold reboot!!

Faster and more advanced backup: across the cloud or a faster local backup

There are already many 3rd party options here. It'll be tough for Microsoft to ship a built-in online-backup feature without annoying the DOJ/EU.

A new file system: NTFS is over 10 years old, after all
And it's still performing admirably. I'd rather see MS spend effort improving resume from hibernate performance.

Cloud support: a 'roaming' user profile: to access your Windows files and settins from any machine

This would be nice. As someone who operates 3-4 machines in different locations, I'd like to see Live Mesh improved to support better file, setting and profile syncing features.

Kinect support: to allow you to play and work at the same machine

This could be nice for MediaCenter and gaming in the living room.

A new user interface ('Aero 2.0'): Something new to liven up the experience

Meh. I like the Win7 Aero theme. More UI chrome == potential for power and horsepower issues. Would rather not give up perf or battery for more shiny stuff.

A new, 'basic' user interface for low powered PCs: Because Aero Basic is too drab

Meh. Even the lowest-end netbooks available when Win8 ships will be able to do full Aero with integrated graphics.

'Intelligent' network diagnostics: Increased support for wireless routers

This is inevitible. Win7's WiFi router support is already much improved. SP1 improved it further still. Win8 will inevitibly get more improvements here.

What I'd rather see is a generic network driver included in the box that will run on EVERY network card so that the machine can get to Windows Update to download the correct drivers for the machine.

In-built PDF reader: A product to rival Adobe Reader's dominance in the market

Looks like this is on the way anyhow.

Virtual desktops or extended workspaces: More than one desktop to organise your life better

Would be nice to have for power users, but not sure it'd make the PC any easier to use for my Mum & Dad. Might actually increase support cost and complexity.

Application store: To download and backup programs from the cloud

This is important and long overdue. I have no doubt it's on its way.

Tablet/slate support: A version of Windows that runs on a tablet device

As demonstrated at CES, Windows on ARM (and other SOC's) is on its way. What's essential, however, is a UI that is tablet/slate/finger friendly. Something like the Windows Phone "metro" UI would be AWESOME!

Extensive driver support: More support for the newer ranges of hardware

What newer hardware isn't already well supported by Windows? Are you referring to ARM? That's hardly "newer hardware" since the first ARM chip was produced in 1985!

64-bit only support: Get rid of 32-bit support completely and run fully 64-bit

This is a red-herring. Forcing Windows to only support 64-bit CPU's will prevent it from being ported to ARM and other SOC's which are mostly 32-bit only at this time.

Also, as I note below and many times here:
64-bit code/data == bigger code and bigger data
== more space on disk
== more IO bandwidth to/from disk/network/etc.
== reduced cache coherency
== reduced performance vs. smaller 32-bit code

Fingerprint and facial recognition security: Requires hardware, but breaks down the password barrier

Already have fingerprint recognition built-in and plenty of 3rd party options available too.

Facial recognition? Meh.

In-built Office features like Word/PowerPoint Viewers: To get working from the word 'go'

Perhaps. Will only matter to self-installers since most OEM's ship new PC's with some type of app that can at least read most Office docs.

'Push reset': quick wipe-and-reinstall functionality: For when it goes horribly wrong

This would be nice if well implemented.

What's missing from this list? It's a biggie with MASSIVE implications if they pull it off?

Virtualization at the core:
Separate the main Windows kernel & host from a series of virtual machines that allow you to run XP, Win7, Win8 simultaneously, eliminating most app compat issues in one fell swoop. I talk about this more here: Will Microsoft make Windows 8 entirely virtual?
@bitcrazed
" Virtualization at the core:
Separate the main Windows kernel & host from a series of virtual machines that allow you to run XP, Win7, Win8 simultaneously, eliminating most app compat issues in one fell swoop.

Good idea. happy
@Raju Das Not to forget, some of them are already in windows 7!
@Raju Das

Couldn't have said it any better myself actually
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Reality check from normal user-ville.
voltrarian 7th Apr 2011
Fast startup: should be highest priority. Nothing makes me want to chuck the pc out the window than waiting over 2 minutes to check email before I leave home. And don't say -- "get a solid state hard drive". And don't forget, it's not just getting to the login screen. It's being able to get to email/web/etc... under 20 seconds -- without having to deal with hard drive contention from start up crappola from other startup processes (this means you Windows Update/Defender, 3rd party anti-virus, etc...)

Faster and more advanced backup: just use a usb hd or 3rd party software -- pass.

A new file system: would grandma care? No.

Cloud support: a 'roaming' user profile: Only for business use. And that would mean trusting and using MS for your confidential business data -- expecting internet access 100% when it counts. -- important only to some -- mostly a pass.

Kinect support: umm... can't see it as necessary if work/play machines are different. Maybe a diversion of resources, from stuff like ... security & reliability?

A new user interface ('Aero 2.0'): frivolous.

A new, 'basic' user interface for low powered PCs: drab? If I want color -- I'd look outside the window, not get color in my life from a pc.

'Intelligent' network diagnostics: Yes. Troubleshooting and diagnostic utilities are smartly important.

In-built PDF reader: -- why, when there are also many free 3rd party readers on the market. Did I mention that they're already free? So why should MS devote resources to this, rather than making its OS less buggy, less annoying, and less slow?

Virtual desktops or extended workspaces: I tried it on Ubuntu, and I never use it. Nothing says too much multitasking and resource hogging than needing more than one desktop full of open apps & docs. What would really be good, is a built in virtual machine running the OS -- and being able to reliably copy it to another machine, and to reliably preserve state.

Application store: ugh. the cloud again? Well, an MS app store? Well maybe they'd need to keep up with the Joneses (Apple, Android, etc...) in this regard.

Tablet/slate support: Isn't that supposed to be Win Mo 7? But yes, in some form, necessary.

Extensive driver support: Hey, MS OS is the market leader, so it comes with the territory.

64-bit only support: Grandma doesn't care. Only the tech purists care.

Fingerprint and facial recognition security: Face recognition is kind of -- often badly implemented, as I've experienced it. Fingerprint is probably more sensible. Facial appearance can change unpredictably -- so the actual concept of facial recognition login is not reliable, but with fingerprints -- you have 9 backup alternatives (hopefully).

In-built Office features like Word/PowerPoint Viewers: It would be nice, not to have to buy Office.

'Push reset': quick wipe-and-reinstall functionality: What, isn't that an OS reinstall? Or is it something smarter and more convenient (ie: less utterly onerous)?

Add: Security, Reliability, More tech friendly resource tracking tools, more configuration options for different types of users (Grandma, Gamer, Artist, Web browser, Business User, Techie, Paranoid Process/Resource Peruser, etc...)
@voltrarian, you really DO live in normal-userville!
I echo nearly everything voltrarian says - with a big emphasis on the "Add" section.
Only thing I disagree with is the Virtual Desktop/Extended Workspace area. We have several users whose home computers double as an after-hours workstation, with VPN access to the company LAN. The Win7 login process made it a gigantic PITA to change from a local profile to one on a different domain, then find your way back. It was a big step backward for the work-at-home world.
@voltrarian

Something tells me this users still in his windows 98 machine!! Really 2 minutes to get to teh desktop or log in screen? Come on throw a link on the startup portion and then have your email load during boot.. BTW even a simple IDE Hard Disk should be able to get on windows desktop and your email inside 30 seconds, and definately inside 1 minute
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Return_of_the_jedi Updated - 7th Apr 2011
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Hallowed are the Ori Updated - 7th Apr 2011
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@Hallowed are the Ori
You are keep the mod busy today, eh?
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@Hallowed are the Ori

Meh... if it wasn't for us, he/she would be bored, no?
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Return_of_the_jedi Updated - 7th Apr 2011
@Return_of_the_truth_teller
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I had real trouble...
wolf_z 7th Apr 2011
Finding anything on that list that was compelling.

I finally chose the built-in PDF reader because I'm tired of Adobe's Reader. It's a trouble magnet, which really makes no sense, since it's basically a *viewer*. Full stop.

As for fast start up, who's computer takes two minutes to start up? Even from a cold start mine's up and ready after 45 seconds or so--and if I lock the keyboard and let Vista (yep, still using Vista :)) go to sleep the PC is back up and ready in 2 seconds or less (literally).

As for the secrecy of Win 8, well, give me a break. The thing is still *alpha*, if that.

Move along, there's nothing to see (yet).
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@wolf_z
Laptops generally start up much slower than desktops.
And the total startup "user experience" does not mean just getting to the user login or welcome screen.

Hard disk grind (HD I/O contention) after the Welcome Screen often involves processes competing for hard drive I/O -- frustration and start up slowness appends time from this issue as well. While 3rd party software (anti-virus, anti-spyware, ie: security software startup & initial scanning etc...) contributes to hard disk activity, Windows Defender, and Windows Update also add to the initial slowness and sluggishness.

Also, if the laptop has a large amount of RAM (ie: 4 gb or more), then the load time for hibernation is ... of course ... lengthened by the time it takes the OS to load 4 gb or more from the aforementioned slow hard drive.

I would not count Windows Startup as "finished" on a laptop until CPU and HD activity drops to baseline, where opening Outlook or opening a browser occurs instantaneously, without sluggish hard drive access activity competing with background processes.

And, any real Windows OS experience has to realistically factor in the expected presence of onerous security software.

Either MS should make its Windows OS so secure that I can happily throw out the torturous 3rd party security software, or MS should factor it in as an expected hindrance to the "User Experience".

In addition, hard disk I/O has to be streamlined by the OS.

Btw, I would suggest to MS, to throw in additional utilities to help the user troubleshoot and diagnose, and then delay, deprioritize, or cancel startup processes and apps.
@wolf_z

I'd like better startup times too, but on a junk filled OEM machine, quick startup is a distant dream
@wolf_z You do realize there are other PDF readers than Adobe? I haven't used Adobe Reader in quite a long time.
Microsoft can't put everything in windows 8! They have been restricted on bundling software buy the government!
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Return_of_the_jedi Updated - 7th Apr 2011
@imsimsj

It never stopped them before. They'll just pay the fine and continue on.
The Gov. gets some money. That's all they wanted anyway.

"Microsoft can't put everything in windows 8!"

That would make it a boat anchor of an os. But they will try.
@Return_of_the_jedi - in FACT, Microsoft removed a lot of stuff from Win7 (e.g. email client) that had previously shipped with most prior versions of Windows and instead created a bundle of useful tools (Windows Live Essentials) that OEM's or users could easily install.

Microsoft has no interest in spending money on legal fees and fines that they could otherwise spend on improving their products, rewarding their staff and returning value to investors.

FWIW, the Windows team have already stated that they aim to make Win8 work just as well (if not better) on existing hardware as Win7. They said and delivered the same strategy with Win7 which performs faster or the same as XP.
@imsimsj With reason...If Win8 would just run my apps fast and securely I'd be happy. Why do I have to have every MS product on the planet bundled with the OS?
@imsimsj I would hate for them to put everything in Win8. To be honest, I'd rather they start removing old crap to shrink and de-clutter the OS. Backward compatibility with Windows applications that are 20 years old is ridiculous. They need to cut ALL the old stuff and make a 64 bit only version of Windows which only supports the current APIs and driver models. Grow some ballz and move us forward MS. There are MANY advantages to being full 64 bit which have nothing to do with the expanded address space. Storage keeps getting faster and larger. Program size is not our biggest concern.

The file system needs to be replaced with a self-repairing, fault-tolerant file system that removes the need for defragmentation and repair utilities. We're over a decade into the 21st century and still using technology from last century.

ALSO, create a new boot ROM standard which quick boots Windows in under 5 seconds, then make it available to all motherboard manufacturers and require it to run Windows.

None of this will make it to Windows 8, but let's hope 9 or 10 can be the one which moves us into the 21st century.
@BillDem
I agree with most of that. I think it should come bare bones with an app store!
Personally what I want is for them to get an OS that can run on iPad style hardware with decent performance and iPad-like battery life. With the Metro UI.

Which the leaks seem to indicate is exactly what they are working on.
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Lower Price
davebarnes 7th Apr 2011
How about $29 a copy.
@davebarnes ABSOLUTE-A-FREAKING-LUTELY PLEASE ADD THIS TO THE POLL - I don't care what they add feature wise...if the OS runs my Windows apps I'm happy. If it only runs MS apps I'm not. I have no problem buying my 3rd party apps I want. but give Win8 the bear minimum to do that, no restrictions on the number of things I can run; and sell it for about $30. The days of buying $300 Desktop OS versions needs to end!!
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Return_of_the_jedi Updated - 7th Apr 2011
@Socratesfoot

"The days of buying $300 Desktop OS versions needs to end!!"

I think buying a $300 Desktop OS is/was YOUR choice? yes?

PS. Paying $300 for a Desktop OS was a 1980's scam some of us got hip to in the 90's.
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Return_of_the_jedi Updated - 7th Apr 2011
@davebarnes

That's still too expensive.
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RE: Poll: Windows 8: What do you want, and what do you need?
Hallowed are the Ori Updated - 7th Apr 2011
@davebarnes

I paid $50 for my copy of 7. I can live with that.
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@davebarnes
... Linux ... (cough) ... Linux... (thankfully it's the free alternative), and it's not bad.
@voltrarian

I realize that I'm too late to get into the poll, but there are two things that I would like to see in vuture versions of Windows that are commonly available in Linux.

1. More friendly to multiboot systems. Because after all, one size doesn't fit all. Windows currently disables boot systems. It should just use the default NTFS (or other) and leave the rest of the disk alone.

2. Allow for other file systems. NTFS is fine for low reliability systems, but lacks the robustness of fully journaled systems. EXT4, or JFS for example. Meanwhile, fully journaled file systems are SLOW compared to lighter file systems such as NTFS or EXT3. Even and expanded dos type file system would work better for some peoples needs. Why couldn't Windows allow for multiple file systems?

As an aside, I do like multiple desk tops. It would be nice if Windows could allow them.

Also, a lightweight VM might make Linux easier to install and use on a Windows machine. After all, it works the other way around.
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@davebarnes
Yes!
No Regstry - be like Linux and OS X and use XML text files.

Overhaul the FUGLY Mess that is the UI

Reliability. Sadly even Win 7 is not that reliable.
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re:Reliability
Badgered 7th Apr 2011
@itguy08 Reliability. Sadly even Win 7 is not that reliable.

Sorry to hear that your experience is nothing like mine happy
@Badgered ...

Ditto. I had a rocky start when I first installed Win7 (explorer, not the web browser the other one, kept crashing) but that was fixed many moons ago. Can't say I've had any real problems with Win7 since then.
@itguy08 - WTF??? Seriously??? Are you still bringing the registry up after ALL the discussions on this forum which have clearly articulated why the registry is a good thing???

Linux & Unix use text files, INI files, XML files, and many file formats of a singular and irregular nature.

Configuring everything in a Linux box requires scripts that can parse and format many types of file structure and layout. It's a mess.

Compared to the registry which is a very fast, hierarchically structured database which can secure down to the individual node level (do THAT with an XML or INI file!), and which can be managed and maintained across an enterprise network of hundreds of thousands of machines via group policy.

If you choose to install apps which leave entries in the registry after they've been uninstalled, this is no different to the app leaving config files on your HDD after being uninstalled.

If you install an app and it overwrites a part of the registry that it shouldn't, this is no different to you installing an app that overwrites some other app's config file.

The registry is VASTLY superior to a collection of randomly formatted, poorly secured, text files littery
@bitcrazed

My experience is that touching the registry is the fastest way to totally hose a Windows system. The old DOS Com files and Sys files (text files after all) were much easier to troubleshoot. Corrupted registry files can often not be fixed, necessitating a complete reinstall. Yes, the registry IS a problem for many. Especially those who are not experts on the Windows way of doing things. The Linux/Unix text based files are easier to inspect, but can still be messed up. However, anyone who knows the basics of Linux/Unix administration can easily fix them. They are also less vulnerable to random bit flipping, which can sometimes destroy a Windows system on startup.

Frequent software installation and removable can leave the Windows registry a mess. Even Microsoft products are careless about cleaning up the registry on deletion.

Neither way is the totally right way, each has some advantages, but on total, I prefer the Linux way.
@itguy08

Sorry, I don't want my HDD cluttered with text files.
Allow the task bar to go across multiple screens (but make it a user option). Especially with features of IE9 and pinned sites, there's only so many pinned icons you can fit on a decently sized screen (28 on mine 1280x1024).
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Back in Windows XP you could configure your video (at least with ATI Radeon graphics cards) to have a pan-and-scan virtual desktop. Sadly, with the advent of WDDM as the default video system in VISTA and Windows 7, that ability have been vanquished. On behalf of Windows users from whom I've heard throughout the world, please bring back the capability to have a pan-and-scan virtual desktop.

The pan-and-scan virtual desktop increases the size of one's desktop beyond what is visible on the computer monitor so that when you move your cursor, say, to the right edge of the screen, the screen moves to reveal additional real estate. Similarly, when you move the cursor to the bottom of the screen, you get more real estate. This enables me to have a 1280 x 800 resolution (which gives you larger icons and application menus etc. than you'd get with the higher resolution desktop) on a 1920 x 1200 desktop. I'd say the actual desktop is probably 50 to 70% larger than the monitor itself.

It's an incredible productivity enhancer. I did try using Windows XP video drivers in Windows 7 -- and it did get the pan-and-scan virtual desktop back. Unfortunately far too many programs couldn't handle the older Windows XP graphics drivers and BSOD were too frequent, making the computer unusable. Gimme Space Desktop Extender ($12.50 per computer; free 30-day trial) is a pretty decent replacement, but it's just not the same and not as productive.
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better software-hardware integration for security
gdstark13 Updated - 7th Apr 2011
This will take cooperation between MS and the hardware vendors (Dell, HP, etc). I'd like a simple momentary switch that would need to be held down during the boot process to disable hardware protection of a non-data partition (where OS and programs are installed). That way I would have to deliberately allow any changes. No malicious software could possibly be written to override it (the beauty of hardware). And I would only do this with a known upgrade that I was installing from disk or USB thumbdrive. Then I would tell my relatives who rely on my for IT support to never use the button without my help.

gary
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Wrong poll: wrong questions.
ITOdeed 7th Apr 2011
This poll should have been about Linux.

Q: Should Linux be as easy as Windows to install and use?
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Troubles with Firefox
WarhavenSC Updated - 7th Apr 2011
@ITOdeed ...

No kidding. We have a Linux box in the computer lab. The technology teacher uses it so the students have at least a fleeting experience with other OSes. After sitting down with Ubuntu for 30 minutes, it donned on me why its adoption has been so slow. Here's why:

Where are applications installed? Seriously. On Windows, you have the Programs Files directory. You open it, and double click on something. OS X has the Applications folder. Same deal. Linux... wtf?

Ubuntu came with Firefox 3.x, and didn't offer Firefox 4 in their application repository. I wanted to put Firefox 4 on there. So, I go to getfirefox.com. It very kindly gives me the Linux version. I download it. I unzip it. I open the folder. And... there's something that *might* be the executable. It's labeled "firefox-bin". I double click on it. Nothing happens. There's no installer file either. And only God knows where I'm suppose to put this folder, if anywhere.

Okay, step two. Google. Yes. One has to Google for instructions on how to install and open a program in Linux that isn't provided to you via the Ubuntu repository.

Aha. A simple 10-step instruction. The first of which didn't work, which involved using get-apt and the terminal. I didn't see it in the Applications/Internet/ menu after going through the series of steps, but the Repository showed it as being installed. So, I thought, "Let's add a shortcut. I guess it's called a Launcher in Ubuntu, we'll start with that."

Easy enough, right? Create new launcher. Click the browse button so I can add Firefox... oh wait. No. I have no frickin' clue where Firefox is. Bin? Nope. Sbin? Nope. usr/bin? Nope. Nevermind. Let's try the firefox-bin in the folder I downloaded. It *looks* like it worked. Has the Firefox icon and everything. Cool. Double-click.

Nothing happens. Double-click. Nothing happens. Double-click once more. Nothing. And by nothing, let me point out that literally nothing happened. No indication whatsoever that an application had been launched. Then three Firefox instances suddenly appear without warning. Hey, Ubuntu, how about some consistency here? When I launched Firefox 3.x from the pre-made launcher, I got a nice message on the task bar that it was launching. But for my new shortcut, I don't get any warning that I've opened FF. Awesome. Let's delete this and move on to the other directions, which involved opening the Ubuntu repository and copy/pasting some cryptic URI into their 3rd party repository section or whatever.

In the end, I did get Firefox 4 installed. And a shortcut (sorry, launcher) added to the desktop, which it aptly started displaying "Launching Firefox..." in the task bar again.
@WarhavenSC

You, Sir, win 10 Internetz. This is the same experience I walked away with too. I could never switch to a Linux OS full time. I would buy a Mac or iPad before I would use Linux.
@WarhavenSC @cibercenturion

Your problem is that you expect Linux to be Windows. I can assure you that folks who are used to Linux have many problems when using a Windows box too.

Linux is totally configurable. The Ubuntu folks didn't want a 'Programs' file menu. There is no 'programs' directory. Linux, like Unix (it is after all, just a total rewrite of Unix) stores all files in essentially the same directory. The directories you see are really just file pointer files. (This it true in Windows too, but it is hidden from you by the system.) Linux systems store the file type in the file header information. Any file can be executable or not. There are often menu choices for program startup, similar to the Windows 'Start' button. There are also icons available on screen, or in top or bottom bars. There can even be icons that open a preselected set of icons. But, that is not what the director of Ubuntu considers 'user friendly'. I would suggest that you try either Linux Mint, or Mepis. They are two distributions that are more friendly for total Noobs (which the your comments indicate that you are).

However, if you only want to have one way to do things, you should stick within the limitations of Windows. Just as the Mac fans should stick with their Macs, and not learn what Windows or Linux can do that Macs can't.
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I'm in a full-on debate
Olderdan 7th Apr 2011
My next computer may run: Apple's Lion, Ubuntu's Unity interface, or Windows 8. Maybe.

What's holding me back is the things I do. I do not play games (that much). I like to develop web application software, use Node.JS and get involved in lots of open source software. A lot of these things work best in Linux, next best on OSX and worst (if at all) on Windows. What I'd like to see in the next version of Windows? More UNIX-like shell functionality.
If you want faster start up Buy an SSD with SATA 2+
Heard it boots in less than 30 seconds
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none of the above...
Bill_SixPack 7th Apr 2011
If I can't use my (old but working) printers and scanners, I"ll stick with Win2K, thank you. I don't need a $$ hardware upgrade just so I can run the latest OS..
I?m settling into Windows 7 & even from a nonpersonal perspective. It?s too soon for Windows 8. I?m NOT against Windows 8, I just feel it?s way too soon for Windows 8 with Win 7 still being a quite recent release.

I?m NOT anti-progress mind you, It?s just progress moves at light speed that it?s hard to keep up.

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