Windows 8 looking to replace toolbars with Ribbons

By | April 3, 2011, 5:25pm PDT

Summary: A new screenshot has emerged of Windows 8 donning the Ribbon menu bar in a prime feature of the operating system. Is it here to stay?

Microsoft is experimenting with a new user interface for its upcoming next-generation operating system, Windows 8, which would in part replace toolbars and the traditional ‘File, Edit, View’ bar with a Ribbon.

This may not seem as much of a surprise, as many applications in incumbent Windows 7, including Wordpad and Paint, along with trendsetting Office 2007 and 2010 applications, already include the Ribbon.

 

The Ribbon was designed at first not only to accommodate a vast number of menu options into a more fluid and dynamic menu bar, but also to take into account users of touch machines like tablet PCs.

The ability to turn off the Ribbon already exists in the build being worked on, but it is unclear whether this gives temporary reprieve to pre-release users, or whether it will make the final curtain call.

While it is entirely far-fetched to suggest for a second that Windows 8 will replace the keyboard altogether, the move to a Ribbon could signal the introduction of Windows 8 slate PCs that Microsoft keeps going on about.

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Topics

Zack Whittaker, a criminologist who studied at the University of Kent, Canterbury, is a journalist, writer and broadcaster.

Disclosure

Zack Whittaker

I worked briefly with Microsoft UK in 2006 but no longer have any connection with the company. Regardless, I remain impartial and unbiased in my views.

I don't hold any stock or shares, investments or industrial secrets in any company, but have signed confidentiality agreements with a number of UK and U.S. organisations, whose names I am not at liberty to disclose.

I was involved with Kent Union, the University of Kent's student union, undertaking voluntary, non-salaried, elected positions between early 2009 and mid-2010.

No other company, body, government department, non-governmental organisation or third sector organisation employs me or pays me a salary in any capacity whatsoever.

As a freelance journalist, whenever expenses are given and taken by a company that is not CBS Interactive, these will be disclosed in each relevant post to ensure transparency.

I currently work with a UK law enforcement unit, but this is an entirely separate position which bears no connection to other work.

(Updated: 23rd October 2011)

Biography

Zack Whittaker

Zack Whittaker, criminologist who studied at the University of Kent, UK, is a journalist, writer and broadcaster.

After studying criminology at university, though still in his early-20's, he has already had a series unconventional work and voluntary positions. He has worked with researchers studying neurological illnesses like Tourette's syndrome (which he suffers from), has given lectures on the nature of disabilities in the public community, and occasionally ends up speaking on television and radio discussing the events of the day.

He first had academic work published at the age of 22, then still an undergraduate, and has been cited by a wide range of publications: from the Huffington Post, Business Insider, AllThingsDigital, The Atlantic Wire and CBS News.

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RE: Windows 8 looking to replace toolbars with Ribbons
FAULKNE 13th Oct
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Again?
windwalkerr 3rd Apr 2011
How can you come up with windows 8, when you can't even get the prior windows versions to work right. How am i supposed to believe that a new OS will do better.
@windwalkerr
It seems you haven't used Windows 7 at all.
@Rama.NET Sounds like he's used it to me.
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Could you please elaborate?
Michael Alan Goff 3rd Apr 2011
How does 7 "not work"?
@windwalkerr Works fine for me. Sped up some XP systems by switching to Windows 7.
@CobraA1 Agreed, have extended the usable lifetime of several machines.

Further, fully installing and configuring a win7 machine can be done in less than half the time of its predecessors.
This seems to be a step backwards where the goal lately has been to reclaim more screen space. The gap between me and Windows just continues to get wider.
@storm14k It hides quite nicely actually... I love the ribbon.
@condelirios
Me too.
@condelirios

me three. In all the applications that use it I find I can perform the tasks I need to do much easier without hunting and pecking through file menus and sub menus.
@condelirios
Well I don't. I think it stinks. Look at the thickness of those ribbons. That's a lot of screen real estate being taken up by M$ fanbui shill eye candy.

It's utterly hypocritical for M$ to make the IE9 GUI as simple and as clean as possible, while at the same time cluttering up windoze explorer.
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@condelirios I've got a tablet with 1024x600 resolution. How much of my document am I actually going to see? Remember, you must provide the rich user experience I hear talked about.

I think the average user is going to see 4 lines of text and say, 'what's up with that?'
@storm14k
It's not too different to a menubar as it autohides . But it exposes a lot of functionality and it's more intuitive
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@g@... I can never find anything on the Office Ribbon. I always have problems. The menu bar was far superior.
@hayneiii@...

Really? Yeah I guess I can see how having all the common functions for the task you are trying to do withing a program right in front of you compared to being buried in menus and sub-menus can be confusing.

I mean who would want all those common tasks right at their finger tips (or mouse pointer tips) in a few separate categories based on the task you are trying to accomplish.
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Having those old drop down menus were more convenient. They would only appear when you did an Alt+F, Alt+E plus underscore_letter. They were away out of the way unless you called them, while at the same time making the menubar smaller and cleaner looking.

Keyboard shortcuts, rule.
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One word: Effeminate
klumper 3rd Apr 2011
As if Windows users aren't emasculated enough as it is. sad

Is there no end to this limp-wristed ribbon transformation?
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@klumper As if DOS users aren't emasculated enough as it is.

Is there no end to this wimp-wristed GUI transformation?

The world progresses. Menus were a first attempt, for lower powered machines, to get away from the command line. Ribbons are the next step in the evolution of the GUI, at least in Redmond's eyes.

I hated Offcie 2007, when it was first released, having used Excel since 1988 and knowing all the shortcuts by heart, but I got used to it and with Office 2010, I wouldn't want to go back to Office 2003...

I think the ribbon is just a temporary stop-gap, until they get to the next big step in the development of the user interface.

I don't think touch will take off on the desktop, I get annoyed with people who stab at my monitor now, pointing to things, I keep reminding them, that it isn't touch, then I have to clean the monitor afterwards.

With a 'phone and to a lesser extent a small tablet, you can wipe the screen clean quickly on your trousers, shirt, pullover etc. You can't do that with a 24" - 30" display and you can't get all the information from a PC display on a tablet.

I can touch having a niche market in tablets, but the desktop is unwieldy and the finger marks are annoying after a while. I think we still need to evolve the "next step" in the GUI evolution, and it wouldn't surprise me if voice made a big entry into the future of the user interface.
@wright_is

That is the problem with most people. They take one look at the different visuals and throw up their arms and call it crap.

When I first starting using Office 2007 it took some getting used to and now I would never go back either. I am starting to see the ribbon like interface in other programs as well and find overall it makes using the software and performing tasks within much easier than hunting through menus and submenus. I know a good handful of keyboard shortcuts too and still use them but the Ribbon is a welcome addition in my book.
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You call that maddening ribbon "progress"?
klumper Updated - 3rd Apr 2011
@wright_is
As if DOS users aren't emasculated enough as it is.

It wasn't pretty as we left the caves, was it? wink Touche.

I think we still need to evolve the "next step" in the GUI evolution, and it wouldn't surprise me if voice made a big entry into the future of the user interface.

If the ribbon is "progress" and "evolution" raising its spurious head, whether as a stopgap measure or not, it amounts to a rather stilted and painful "next step" for microsoft + monkeykind.

I hated Offcie 2007, when it was first released [...] but I got used to it and with Office 2010.

Sure and to some extent, the same applies here. But that doesn't mean I applaud these annoying in your face UI changes. I still prefer the cleaner and more discreet menu driven approach, now years from the ribbon introduction.

Touch? Fougettaboutit. Mostly for the reasons you stated. Voice? Getouttahere! 50 gibberish monkeys chattering away in every office confine, cursing with every miscue! Then heading home and babbling commands within ear-reach of friend and foe alike at their favorite porn sites [ "Oh yeah baby, oh yeah!!"]. **splat!!**

Not a friggen chance! silly [Fair retort though.]
@klumper
As if Windows users aren't emasculated enough as it is.

Is there no end to this limp-wristed ribbon transformation?

Well said, I also hate the useless ribbon interface. When you spend the better part of 20 years using something; a change, simply for the sake of change, is often less productive and more frustrating. Now add to that if the ribbon panels are not logically marked, it make the learning curve that much steeper.

@Wright_is
I can touch having a niche market in tablets, but the desktop is unwieldy and the finger marks are annoying after a while.
I have to agree with this. Nothing worse than seeing a display with finger, spit, who-knows-what, marks on it. Nothing worse than seeing an image with lumps on it.
@Rick_K

@Rick_K

"a change, simply for the sake of change"

The change had a very specific goal: To provide better visibility for all of Office's features. One of Microsoft's biggest issues was people suggesting they add features that already existed, but were hidden underneath an overwhelming number of toolbars, menus, and dialog boxes.

It's not "change, simply for the sake of change" as you are suggesting.
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Easter egg hunt
klumper 4th Apr 2011
@CobraA1
The change had a very specific goal: To provide better visibility for all of Office's features.

And that's exactly what's in the crosshairs and where we're at odds -- many of us see it as in your face visual and sensory overload. It's limp wristed because the user interface has been dumbed down and tailored more for novices and cherubics.

One used to turn to the HELP menu if they weren't sure of something (though one's mileage would invariably vary). Now it's more of an egg hunt, cuz you just know what you need is there staring at you in a cluttered AIO array - somewhere! lol
@CobraA1
The change had a very specific goal: To provide better visibility for all of Office's features.

Well, then why is it harder to find these features? Why do you have to change tabs, just to change the font? Why are things not placed in logical locations? whys it that everything is a treasure hunt to find similar functionality?
@Rick_K

Really? I find that the ribbon is categorized very well. Lets use MS Word as an example. I only have 2007 but that should do.

The most common tasks are under the "Home" ribbon. You want to insert something you use the "Insert" Ribbon. Want to adjust your page layout you use the "Page Layout" If you Insert something like a picture and click on it you get a "Format" ribbon. Want to guess what that is used for? Formatting...very good.

The same applies to the rest of the Office Suite and other Microsoft Applications that utilize the ribbon. I even see some third party companies using a ribbon like menu such as AutoDesk.

It's not exactly rocket science, but hey if you prefer going through the file and edit menus and all their sub menus to find what you need then so be it.
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Easter Egg hunt???
gavin142 8th Apr 2011
It's limp wristed because the user interface has been dumbed down and tailored more for novices and cherubics.

@klumper So, I'm to believe you sprang forth from the womb with the intimate knowledge of Office already safely tucked away in your brain? Neat Trick!

For the rest of us, unfortunately, there was a time that we didn't know everything and were ourselves novices. MS is not dumb, they constantly review their products to determine how they can be made easier to their full range of users, from the total neophyte to the guru.
@klumper As if Windows users aren't emasculated enough as it is.

So you're relating masculinity to a PC interface... Interesting.
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That and more
klumper 4th Apr 2011
@Badgered
So you're relating masculinity to a PC interface... Interesting.

Don't forget the Weeple who are dragged around by the collar and told every new change is unquestionably for the better - and then baah in acquiescence. wink
@klumper

"Don't forget the Weeple who are dragged around by the collar and told every new change is unquestionably for the better - and then baah in acquiescence."

Well in this case you are in the minority as most people find the ribbon better and making their work easier and studies have shown that new users to the programs find it easier to use from the beginning. Most veteran users had trouble at first and rejected the ribbon but many found that after using it and under standing its purpose that it was in fact easier and better. Then there are people like you that cannot see past the GUI and rather keep everything the same forever.

You cannot please everybody. If you do not like the direction that software goes then I encourage you to sign up for beta programs but only do that if you can actually provide constructive feedback instead of biased one sided drivel.
  • Flagged
The Ribbon is evil. I'll switch to Ubuntu before I use a Ribbon.
@Vesicant
Ribbon is not evil. It's beautifully proprietary and need-to-be-bought.
@Vesicant

When I first saw the ribbon in Office 2007, I hated it... I mean really hated it.

It took me 3 months, but now I have no idea how I ever worked without it.
Seems to make it more harder then needs to be right now it's pretty simple. Why make a simple toolbar complex?

I am not anti-ribbon I love it in Office but I don't really understand the need for this in Windows Explorer.
@Randalllind

Agreed, but I'm thinking they're doing it for tablet owners. The ribbon is definitely more friendly for tablet devices than menus.
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@CobraA1

True. The Ribbon is nice to use on my tablet, but here I think it would be highly intrusive on the limited real estate tablets have. We'll have to wait and see.
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Missgivings about ribbons
lcloria2 3rd Apr 2011
Interesting, I've just gotten used to Win 7 and now they're going to make it all look like MS Office? I have some missgivings about this. Interoperability and synchronization with other devices is much more important to me. With the new Windows phones out you'd think that a bit more important than some "ribbons". I do however like Win 7 Pro, coupled with Norton 360 it has proven to be all but bullet proof.
@lcloria2

"With the new Windows phones out you'd think that a bit more important than some 'ribbons'."

Windows phone and Windows for PC are developed by different teams. Microsoft isn't losing anything by working on both.
NO. I swear I will absolutely NOT use any version of Windows that forces me to use "ribbons." After more than twenty years as a computer professional, the "ribbon" is the second-worst idea I have ever seen (ActiveX is the worst).

I do NOT need to spend 6 months figuring out where in the Hell Microsoft moved all the controls *this* time. And since the company President has respect for my opinions, he'll very likely be happy to stick with Windows 7 - that means no new Windows. And when we can't get Windows 7 machines any more, we'll switch to Ubuntu.
Ribbons are nothing but glorified toolbars with tabs. They offer barely nothing over ordinary toolbars with normal menus.
Whom ever came up with the idea that gigantic toolbars are better than what we had before is a compete moron. And whom ever decided to approve the change should be fire.

Sorry, but like most people in the planet, I really hate the stupid space wasting "ribbon" on MS Office .... why in hell would I want it on everything else ?
@wackoae

"Ribbons are nothing but glorified toolbars with tabs."

The idea is that you can switch toolbars with ease. Putting them in tabs accomplishes that nicely.

"They offer barely nothing over ordinary toolbars with normal menus. "

Sure they do.

-You can switch them with a single click. Advantage over regular toolbars.

-The icons of your current task are always shown clearly, often with very visible icons. Advantage over menus.

-They are arranged by task now, making it easier to focus on the task at hand. Advantage over the old menu layout.

"Sorry, but like most people in the planet, I really hate the stupid space wasting "ribbon" on MS Office .... "

Most people who hate the ribbon hate it simply because it's different, and it means they have to learn something new. I haven't heard much else in the way of criticism.
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Not even close
wackoae 3rd Apr 2011
@CobraA1 The only application where the "ribbon" is acceptable and maybe useful is Powerpoint. On all others it is just a giant waste of space.

I used to remove all the useless toolbar buttons included by default on previous versions of Office .... why the hell would I like having more useless options with bigger icons stealing real-estate space on my screen? The ribbon is like the add-on toolbars that used to fill up IE with 3rd party junk.
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Ribbons are a horrid idea.
Bruizer 3rd Apr 2011
@CobraA1

They slow me down and this is after 2 years of using them. Worst UI design I have seen in ages. A wet sloppy trout should be used against the head of the engineer that thought they were a good idea.
On Office 2007, it's pretty bad. I'm used to using keyboard shortcuts all the time. I do not like having to use the mouse all the time for point and click. If I use Alt+E, I get a stupid dialog box that says "Office 2003 access key. Continue typing the Office 2003 key sequence or press escape to continue"

Well I go by the main menu shortcuts and then use the underscored letter for what option I want. That's been taken away so now it's a guessing game.

I've used Office 2011 a little so some of that shortcut functionality is back, which proves that that functionality shouldn't have been taken away in the first place. Dumb move.
but we get it anyway, don't we? At least MS used to include a kill [revert] switch with their GUI remakes. Let's hope they include one in Windows 8 likewise.

CobraA1: Most people who hate the ribbon hate it simply because it's different, and it means they have to learn something new. I haven't heard much else in the way of criticism.

It's more of an issue than just being "different" or it would have been accepted more broadly by now. I see it largely as implementing change for the sake of change.

Ironically these UI refreshes are touted as "productivity improvements," yet most will spend more time hunting for what they need within the cluttered panels than tabbing more familiar means. What a mess.

This is because the ribbon layout concept amounts to visual overkill -- it's like hunting for a desired constellation within a sea of stars. Now it's been said that the hunt is more satisfying than the kill wink [true dat] but that's rarely the case when one has work to get done (along with time constraints, whether self imposed or not).

Btw you seem to be championing this latest ribbon implementation one minute, then apologizing for (or excusing) it the next. What gives?
@klumper

"It's more of an issue than just being 'different' or it would have been accepted more broadly by now."

As far as I know, it's very broadly accepted. A few opinionated people in some forums does not make for poor acceptance.

And if you can actually describe why you think it works poorly, perhaps I'll give you more credence.

"yet most will spend more time hunting for what they need within the cluttered panels "

The cluttered toolbars and menus are definitely what we had before. I'd say it was worse back then. We had to do a LOT of hunting before the ribbon came.

"Btw you seem to be championing this latest ribbon implementation one minute, then apologizing for (or excusing) it the next. What gives?"

It works well for Office, where there are a lot of commands (what it was designed for). However, in some places where there are relatively few commands, it could be overkill.
@CobraA1
And if you can actually describe why you think it works poorly, perhaps I'll give you more credence.

Things are not logically placed, what used to take 3 seconds using menus, now takes 10 seconds having to guess which tab they are under. Mind you I am not just talking out myself, but others that have had Office 2007 foisted upon them. Especially when someone calls me up at 8 pm asking how to do ?X? in Word and I do not have a copy installed. Then it?s a version of try this tab and see if what you?re looking for is there?

The cluttered toolbars and menus are definitely what we had before. I'd say it was worse back then. We had to do a LOT of hunting before the ribbon came.

And for some, once they have learned their way through those menus, they have to learn the ribbon all over again. The ribbon was nothing more than change for the sake of change. Introducing a three month learning curve does not increase productivity, but Microsoft could not care one bit about that. It is all about pushing incompatible software to ?encourage? upgrades.
@Rick_K

"Things are not logically placed, what used to take 3 seconds using menus, now takes 10 seconds having to guess which tab they are under."

Is it a logical placement, or a memorized placement?

Take a look at Word 2010, for example:

-You've got the Home tab, with all of the common stuff. Clipboard, font stuff, paragraph stuff, etc.

-You've got the Insert tab, allowing you to insert things like pictures, tables, shapes, etc.

-You've got the Page Layout tab, allowing you to manage the layout of the page. Margins, orientation, size, etc.

It all seems to be very logical to me. Each tab represents a task (managing a page, inserting an item, using reference material, etc), and the appropriate tools for the task should be in the task's tab.

I've been using Office 2007/2010 for a while now, and honestly I probably would have issues finding things in older versions of office.

"Then its a version of try this tab and see if what youre looking for is there?"

I'd have the same issue with older versions of office, probably. And it's not too difficult to guess where things are in the ribbon: Where would the spell checker be? Well, you're using it to review your document for spelling problems, so obviously it's in the Review tab happy.

"The ribbon was nothing more than change for the sake of change."

That's simply false. It was invented to get less support calls. People were asking for features Office already had. Look around for the Office blogs; they explain it very clearly.

The ultimate measure is whether Microsoft is getting those calls a lot anymore or not. And of course only Microsoft can tell you if they are.

Although, from the way they're putting the ribbon into everything, I'd say there's a good chance they accomplished that objective in Office, otherwise they wouldn't be putting it into everything else.
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Pot meet kettle
klumper Updated - 4th Apr 2011
@CobraA1
As far as I know, it's very broadly accepted.

You mean of course by default (as in, is there any choice other than jumping ship?). One can imagine how much acceptance there would have been if MS included a revert switch. Wanna take a stab at that proposition?

A few opinionated people in some forums does not make for poor acceptance.

It's also funny how at every forum, there always seem to be as many peeps unhappy with the ribbon concept as there are those who accept or champion it. Look no further than this one for proof. "A few opinionated people" equally defines the acceptance group [pot, meet kettle].

And if you can actually describe why you think it works poorly, perhaps I'll give you more credence.

Already did, along with plenty of others. I'd suggest checking your reading comprehension next.
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Humm
CobraA1 3rd Apr 2011
Humm, an interesting choice, but it seems to take up a lot of space. Wasn't so much of a problem with Office, as it got rid of a gazillion toolbars, but Explorer is a different story. Explorer in Windows 7 is already pretty minimalist, and the menus are hidden by default, so the ribbon is actually taking up more space.

But then again, this could be about touch devices, and it would mare more sense than menus there. But there would still be the issues of screen space and non-tablet devices.
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Just change the name
kenosha77a Updated - 3rd Apr 2011
Change the name to your article description for ribbons. Change the feature name to "Dynamic Toolbar".

For better or for worse, there is a negative association to the name "ribbons".
Good day to confirm this comment I would appreciate T h e b e s t o f Z D N e t d e l i v e r e d your website very nice to everyone Yes, Oracle is the only one with shared-disk architecture, but that is there advantage. It means you can add or remove nodes and the database lives on. In a shared nothing architecture, if you lose a node, you lose the system. I'm sure Oracle appreciates EMC highlighting their advantage.I also desire to signal in your RSS feeds. Thank you as soon as once again and maintain up the great operate Awesome post! Thank you very much || thanks for nice content this is really benefit to me.

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