Writers guild suing U.S. universities: 'Give up your Google books'

Summary: Orphaned books or 'abducted' books? Five U.S. universities are being sued to prevent work from being uploaded and digitized.

A legal battle is under way between a coalition of writers and five major U.S. universities, after the writers' books were digitized without their say so.

The Authors' Guild and its equivalent organisations in Australia, Canada and the UK, along with a large group of other authors, are suing the five universities, including the University of Michigan, Wisconsin, Indiana, Cornell and the University of California.

(Source: Flickr)

The five universities allied with Google to digitize their books, in a bid to make the same copies of books available to more students without physically buying more books. Google partnered with these U.S. university libraries also to gain access to the books and works that it wants to digitize for its Google Books project.

But the authors of the books are not happy, and the lawsuit threatens Google's long-term project of digitizing books for general availability.

HathiTrust, a named defendant in the case and a central core to the ongoing lawsuit, helped the universities set up a digital archive of their books. The repository was set up by the University of Michigan for student and staff access of 'orphan works' -- defined as out-of-print books whose writers could not be found to ask or negotiate copyright.

But HathiTrust is in the cross-hairs as the suit suggests that books uploaded may be breaching copyright, given that they are outside the control of the universities that own the physical, hard copies of the work.

The company is attempting to find out-of-copyright books, so called 'orphaned' works. If it cannot find the authors, then it will go ahead and digitize the work regardless, and provide digital copies to students and staff. As you would expect, this has not gone down well -- and the group pursuing the lawsuit claims that the books are not orphaned, more so "abducted".

Google has so far digitized nearly five million books from Michigan's library, but authors believe that the project is going ahead without their consent.

The coalition of authors wants the whole project to halt. Simply put, any computer with a digital copy of the books to be shut down and disconnected.

If the authors win the suit, Google Books could be over as we know it. But whether or not Google's digital book service is a good thing or not, from the point of the students at least, that is a debate for another time.

Topic: Google

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  • RE: Writers guild suing U.S. universities: 'Give up your Google books'

    This brings found memories of two ruthless mafia style organizations the RIAA and MPAA
    RIAAsucks
    • Do you remember the old days?

      @RIAAsucks Remember in the old days when we used to pay for books? What suckers we were back then. Then the enlightened authors began sharing their knowledge with the world for free. Oh wait that's the other other alternate reality. These old farts aren't taking the digital revolution too well are they? Hmmm... I'm willing to pay, but I won't use what I bought under your terms.
      General C#
      • The question is...

        @General C#
        ...does the Authors' Guild represent those copyright holders, or current authors and publishers who don't want competition from public domain works?
        John L. Ries
  • Greedy Authors and University's

    Some people may not know this, but a stinking college book can easily cost 300.00 and more, depending on the particular course. Then add up the multiple books the student must buy for that one class and then add the multiple books for the other class's. After the 3 month semester is over, those books are not worth anything unless you can re-sell them to other. <br><br>But colleges are pretty shifty and they usually out date those books and change out the required books once every couple of years, to ensure maximum profitability via the book store and book sales.
    databaseben
    • RE: Writers guild suing U.S. universities: 'Give up your Google books'

      @databaseben@... Just FYI . . . the plural of "university" is "universities" (not "university's"). And the plural of "class" is "classes" (not class's). And "resell" has no hyphen. Maybe you should split with some $$$ and buy some books!
      pluralpolice
      • RE: Writers guild suing U.S. universities: 'Give up your Google books'

        @pluralpolice Regardless, he has a point. College textbooks are ridiculously high priced.
        Aerowind
    • RE: Writers guild suing U.S. universities: 'Give up your Google books'

      @databaseben@...
      And to think, when I first started college back in the fall of 1966, we rented the books per semester (High School books too)! Of course, then the next semester (Spring 1967) we had to buy them, but then everything was cheaper--most cost less than $30, wages were much lower, food cost less, gas was in the $0.2*9 range, etc. I won't pay $20-$30 for a good novel, I will wait until it is priced in the less than $10 range to buy.
      Apostrophe misuse--technically he could get by with class's as the apostrophe represents missing letters and the e is missing! It isn't common writing tactics to do so. The apostrophe protection society. http://www.apostrophe.org.uk/examples.htm
      dhays
  • Go opt in. It really OS simple.

    Google is acting like an organized thug appropriating property that is not theirs to profit from it. The Google Books project is what turned me from a Google fan to someone that advocates against them.
    Bruizer
    • Opt-in...

      @Bruizer

      You're saying we should let those authors that Google is unable to find, to opt-in? Maybe Google should just send an e-mail to those authors it can't find, that might work, too. Or, perhaps, just sit down over a cup of coffee with those authors it can't find, and discuss the matter in person.

      Google is after money, let's not fool ourselves, but they're also after creating a sustainable, world-wide library online. That's a good thing in my book.
      Kangaruhs
      • RE: Writers guild suing U.S. universities: 'Give up your Google books'

        @Kangaruhs
        Google cant sell what is not theres to sell.Google cant give away what google doesnt own. If the authers come out of the woodwork then googles got to either pay them or remove the books. Its just that simple. People are getting sued for shareing files that dont belong to them what makes Google any diffrent? Google the modern day Robin Hood?
        Stan57
      • RE: Writers guild suing U.S. universities: 'Give up your Google books'

        @Kangaruhs

        All good points. Google is doing a service for present and future readers, and also for neglected or unreachable writers.
        rbcinmd123
      • RE: Writers guild suing U.S. universities: 'Give up your Google books'

        @Stan57

        "Google can't GIVE AWAY (my correction) what is not theirs to sell." And the Writers' Guild can't forbid them to give away what the Writers' Guild doesn't own. If they have valid claim to any book, I expect Google would be happy to discuss licensing with them.
        pDaleC@...
      • RE: Writers guild suing U.S. universities: 'Give up your Google books'

        @StanTheMan57

        Google's settlement had provided a separate fund to collect royalties for those authors whose orphaned works were sold.

        Otherwise, what good are these works to sit in some publisher's vault, out of print, to a potential hundreds or thousands of people that would like to read and pay for access to their works?

        The Author Guild's current stance amounts to a scorched Earth policy, and it's weak and utterly backwards.
        gork platter
    • RE: Writers guild suing U.S. universities: 'Give up your Google books'

      Mr. Whittaker is badly summarizing the issue.<br><br>Out-of-copyright works are public domain... freely available.<br>'Orphan' works... are a different matter... if an author comes forward, it is no longer an 'orphan' work.<br>Out-of-copyright orphan work is yet another area... if there is such a thing... but freely available.<br><br>@Bruizer... yes, it is simple...<br>If authors are unhappy and come forward, their work is no longer orphan... and they have legal remedies, to which Google, et al, will have to submit. The proven authors can terminate distrubution or demand payment... this is not in doubt. So there's no need for a lawsuit by a guild... of non-orphaned authors, especially. Should there be a statute of limitations? Copyrights already expire. Should there be an establishment of date of orphaning? maybe.<br><br>Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seemed to me that the great majority of the digitized works are those that are definitely out of copyright... thus anyone make a copy.<br><br>If orphan work authors show up to claim ownership... they will be able to negotiate/litigate a settlement... an automatic payday ...or exercise their right to stop distribution.<br>For authors, or a guild (who have no 'orphan' works) to oppose the project, is not a good legal leg to stand on... they have no injury, no threat of injury. <br>All any author has to do is claim their work... yes, there would need to be some proof.<br>With five universities involved, I don't think it's malicious.<br>Is Google actually profiting... are they charging for this service to universities, to the end users? <br><br>What's the point of the lawsuit? You don't want your work to be digitally published but you don't want to claim it either?<br>You want to protect the rights of orphaned authors? They already have protection in the law, if they exercise it.<br>The point of written work is to be published. <br>If you claim it, you have rights to stop distribution or get paid. I doubt you even have to claim your right -publicly-.<br>If your work is 'orphan', you're either dead, insensate, or hiding... there is a time-limit on copyrights. Eventually the work becomes public domain. Maybe the heirs to orphan works have a claim... so they can make it legally, and win... for 70 years after death of the author... or perhaps, we establish 70 years from date of 'orphanment'. <br>I doubt this project is thieving for profit.
      RDrrr
    • RE: Writers guild suing U.S. universities: 'Give up your Google books'

      @Bruizer Really, don't you remember about almost twenty years ago when we were all worried that we were cutting down trees faster than we could grow them, well this is the solution to fix that human created problem. So we need to decide are we going to allow lumbering, or are we going to digitize our print, we cant have it both ways.
      rnlightle
  • RE: Writers guild suing U.S. universities: 'Give up your Google books'

    "[i]If the authors win the suit, Google Books could be over as we know it. But whether or not Google???s digital book service is a good thing or not, from the point of the students at least, that is a debate for this afternoon.[/i]"

    These authors need to start facing reality and "get with the program". Those out-of-print books were [i]not[/i] generating any income for them. There is already a lawsuit regarding Google Books. They can simply get involved in that rather than "trying to reinvent the wheel" and waste everyone's time re-litigating.

    The bottom line is that if Google doesn't do it in the U.S., someone else will do it somewhere else either where the work isn't copyrighted or the legal system doesn't permit lawyers to handle cases on a contingency basis (which is EVERY country except the U.S. and a few Canadian provinces). Either the U.S. courts, the legal system, and the authors need to face that or we'll wind up in "the dustbin of history" as other countries with more realistic legal systems take over.
    Rick_R
  • I smell M$ and Apple dirty hand here

    trying to stop google's momentum
    The Linux Geek
    • RE: Writers guild suing U.S. universities: 'Give up your Google books'

      @The Linux Geek

      I think you really should remove the word "Linux" from your name since all open-source licenses revolve around copyright and ownership. That's what the term license means in open-source: conditions with which someone can use code "owned" by someone else.

      If Google and the universities prevail, it would be ominous for ALL copyrighted information.
      aep528
  • RE: Writers guild suing U.S. universities: 'Give up your Google books'

    I think that the authors should be complaining about their own works. If they can't show their own works being used without permission, they have no legal standing to sue.

    Digital books should however be treated exactly the same as hardcopies. If you own the rights to the hardcopy, you also own the rights to digital copies and these must be controlled so illegal copies are not created and distributed.

    Show you have been damaged though, or go away.
    timspublic1@...
  • RE: Writers guild suing U.S. universities: 'Give up your Google books'

    If the authors of the books in question aren't suing then I suspect this will be a very short-lived court case.
    Ididar