ie8 fix

Another Windows 7 slate dropped from this year's Christmas list

By | August 24, 2010, 9:46am PDT

Another week, another Windows 7 slate is cut from the list of those slated (pun intended) to ship in time for this holiday season.

This time, as Engadget’s PC reviewer extraordinaire Joanna Stern noted on August 23, the vendor didn’t decide to dump Windows 7 for Android. Instead, MSI has decided to delay its Windows 7-based WindPad so it can incorporate Intel’s Oak Trail processors that are expected to offer better power management and battery life. (MSI is also developing an Android WindPad slate, which is still on tap to ship before the end of this year, by the way.)

It was just a month ago that Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer showed off a list of 21 vendors all said to be working on “Windows 7 slates” due out in time for this holiday season. (Seemingly, Ballmer’s list included slates running Windows Embedded Compact-based operating systems, as well. The Embedded Compact 7 release to manufacturing date is still sometime in the fourth quarter of 2010, last I heard.)

Since Ballmer flashed his slate slide, there’s been further disarray in the Windows slate market.

ASUS is readying both Windows 7 and Windows Embedded Compact 7 slates/tablets, but they aren’t likely to hit until very late 2010 or early 2011 (and at a $1,000 price point for the Windows 7 model and a $400 to $500 one for the Compact 7 one).

Hanvon was supposed to launch its Windows 7 slate in April but best I can tell it became available in limited markets and quantities (in China and Australia) in August and was priced at more than $1,000. No word if/when the B10 will hit other markets.

Pegatron, the hardware OEM behind the ExoPC, is continuing its work on Windows 7 slates which will be private-labeled (best I can tell) by various partners around the world. The Canadian partner is Ciara-Tech, which will market the slate under the name Ciara Vibe (be careful searching that name, as there is another “Ciara Vibe,” images of whom are probably not safe for work). No other OEMs have been announced. ExoPC had created its own touch user interface that is layered on top of Windows 7, as well as its own app store for developers who create apps that make use of that interface. It sounds like the Canadian launch still might happen in mid-late September (?)

Hewlett Packard is still promising a Windows 7 slate for the fourth quarter of 2010, but it sounds like that product will be marketed as a business-focused product (more of a tablet without a lid) and not a consumer-focused iPad competitor.

Ballmer said at Microsoft’s Financial Analyst Meeting (FAM) in late July that Microsoft and its partners were counting on Intel’s Oak Trail to give them a better answer to the iPad. Ballmer insisted that Windows 7 — not Microsoft’s Windows Phone OS or Windows Compact Embedded (which also runs on ARM processors, unlike Windows 7) — would be the best operating system for a new line of iPad competitors.

What Ballmer and others at Microsoft haven’t addressed is whether Microsoft will offer its partners some kind of a standardized touch shell for their slates. Currently, OEMs making Windows-based slates are doing their own things by adding different user interface layers on top of Windows 7 to make it a touch-first operating system. (Microsoft is offering OEMs some guidelines for optimizing Win7, IE8 and Windows Live for touch, but is not providing an actual shell they can use.)

I’d think Microsoft would have learned its lesson with Windows Mobile as to what happens when its hardware partners are allowed to customize extensively on top of a Microsoft-provided operating system. As Android developers are discovering, as well, the result is often a bunch of incompatible platforms that don’t support applications in a common way, creating market fragmentation and programmer fear and loathing….

Microsoft execs dropped hints at FAM that they are aware of these problems and are thinking about the optimal ways to make Windows a touch-centric user interface. That’s what the Microsoft “Surfboard” prototype touch application seems to be all about. Microsoft’s Corporate Vice President of Windows Consumer Marketing Brad Brooks mentioned Surfboard in passing during FAM. During a demo, Brooks said:

“So, here I’ve got another slate form factor and again running Windows 7 and I’m going to pop open an application here that we’ve been, this is a prototype application we’ve been working with at Microsoft and using to help train our ecosystem about how to create touch-first application on Windows 7.  And so this particular application is what we call internally Surfboard.”

It’s looking more and more as though there won’t be many Windows 7 slates available this holiday season. As I blogged before, sometimes it is better to be late than lame. If Microsoft uses the next few months to create a better touch-centric slate reference platform — and maybe even a shell — maybe the delay will be worth it.

Do you think Microsoft should/could develop a touch shell for its PC maker partners to bring more standardization and unity to the Windows-based slate space?

Kick off your day with ZDNet's daily e-mail newsletter. It's the freshest tech news and opinion, served hot. Get it.

Topics

Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

Related Discussions on TechRepublic

Did you know you can take part in these discussions with your ZDNet membership?
66
Comments

Join the conversation!

Just In

RE: Another Windows 7 slate dropped from this year's Christmas list
dsfwrryd4101-24353678324541271121611409328105 10th Nov
kgwbcz,good post!
This is a good thing, Oak Trail will be good.
0 Votes
+ -
Yes, but
Economister 24th Aug 2010
@angarita calvo

by then, ARM will be better also. Intel/MS are chasing a moving target. I am not saying they cannot succeed, just that it is hazardous to compare one line of current products to a future line of different products. It is really an irrelevant comparison. We will see what the situation is like when Oak Trail finally ships.
0 Votes
+ -
Intel wipes floor with ARM
LBiege 24th Aug 2010
@Economister

You just watch Intel crushing ARM out of business. Count on it.
@LBiege

The problem for intel is the x86 instruction set makes its chips less efficient. Intel has overcome this disadvantage by spending much more money on production process than anyone else could afford. But now that Globalfoundries is preparing to produce ARM at 28 nm, that advantage is vanishing. I don't see how Intel is ever going to catch up with ARM.
The current Atom chips look very sluggish in comparison.
@angarita calvo Wait for Oak Trail... then why not wait for the next bigger, better, faster, less-power-hungry processor? Or the one after that? Come on, geterdone already!
Delay for a better processor so you can have Microsoft Windows 7 on the slate is totally worth it.
@Loverock Davidson

but then letting win7's bloat shine on less powerful hardware will fail also.

There is no escape for win7's bloat and power hunger, failure is the way to go.

Now I'm wondering: How much failure is enough for them, and how much is too little? When will they finally stop this nonsense of trying to put win7 onto hardware where because of bloat and power hunger it has absolutely no chance of running acceptably?
yeah right pantload...
@Vegas

Financially Linux sales were not affected by MS giving XP away.

Vista was the real loser.
0 Votes
+ -
Fascinating.
Mister Spock 24th Aug 2010
I can undersatnd why you do not look at things logiclly, and without emotion.

You would not like what it is you had to say.

plain
@Loverock Davidson LOL yeah, we can't wait to see a POINT AND CLICK OS on a touch device...that's never been done before.

How non-innovative can you get?

EPIC FAIL.
@Loverock Davidson

As always, LD is absolutely correct. MS is going to clobber the ipad because it has been making tablets so much longer and has had much longer to learn from its errors. It's the version 3.0 phenomenon (even if they are up to v 7.0, by my count).

Just remember, Microsoft is always best. It is best in every way, it always was, and always will be. Keep that in mind and you never go wrong.
I suspect the processing power will be fine.. At least I hope. But will the improvements to battery drain or use be enough? Also what about price being a cutting edge processor JUST ramping up production has to effect the price of the chip right? This is very interesting and I can't wait to see how it all plays out:P

Pagan jim
responsive enough, then, it will make the end product heavier, less battery life, thicker, etc. Couple that with an OS not appropriate for a tablet, and you are going to see a lot of manufacturers dropping Windows 7 tablets.
0 Votes
+ -
I disagree. You, and many like you claimed that of
Mister Spock Updated - 24th Aug 2010
Windows on a netbook.

It was Linux being dropped by manufacturers in the end, not Windows.

Could that same fate be in store for Android powered devices?
I'm very skeptical of pure Windows 7 slates - the OS is simply not designed to be used with the slate format. Much better would be to simply do what Apple does and release a Win Phone 7-based slate. I don't quite understand why MS seems so reluctant about that idea?
0 Votes
+ -
@andlju

What about these:

No multitasking
No copy/paste
No (somewhat) bug free wp7 release
No features to match the competition (at launch wp7 will stand where the competition was more than 3 years ago, at best)

No options other than win7.

Are these enough to justify MS's reluctance? I guess they are.
0 Votes
+ -
WP7 has multitasking, at launch it will have better multitasking support than ios has after 3 years. And the tech previews of it have already proven it less buggy than ios so wrong there too.

Of course if windows slates were designed to be as lame as ipads then maybe using a weaker os would be acceptable. But they're not, they're designed to enhance productivity, not hinder it like ipads, so they'll make the smart choice and choose windows.
  • Flagged
@OS Reload I agree that the WP7 should have cut and paste from the get go. Some of your other information is not quite right.
@Johnny Vegas

uhm, are you aware that WP7 has *NO* multi-tasking? It did back in april, but was removed. What reviews are you talking about? Have any links?

And less buggy than iOS in what ways? Any examples?

As for being productive, have you ever used a point and click OS on a touch device? It sucks, period. They are not nearly as productive as using the same OS with the proper input devices.
@andlju

Legacy applications. It's how M$ has held on to so many users despite Vista.

If they use a mobile OS, none of the legacy stuff will run and they will be on a level playing field, just three years behind iOS.

They don't want that.

But if they could shoe-horn W7 into a slate and slap a touch interface on it, maaaybe 90% of existing Vista capable apps would work.

And they could expect all their current developers to download a modified SDK and try it out rather than depending on the W7 Phone developers.
yes of course they need to have their own touch ui/shell...is it just me or does everyone in the freaking world get this besides the nubs in redmond..lets go m$.. it's becoming embarrassing to be a fanboy and stick up for u! get your head outta the sand!
@joshjacob@... "YEP DITTO"
And, even with better hardware, there will be a penalty on weight / size / battery life / price for Windows 7 systems. By the time the hardware is good enough for Windows 7, Apple and Android systems running on Arm will cost less, weight less, perform better, and have longer battery life. Not to mention a better user interface for tablets.
0 Votes
+ -
Non issues really
Cylon Centurion 24th Aug 2010
@DonnieBoy

Weight - Netbooks weigh next to nothing. Heck neither do full sized laptops anymore.

Size - What about it is an issue here?

Battery Life - Needs worked on, but no one wants to take up the task.

Price - Apple could use a lesson here as well. After all, you are paying more for the logo than the hardware wink
0 Votes
+ -
Weight?
levinson 24th Aug 2010
@NStalnecker Everything weighs "next to nothing" if you don't have to carry it. The longer you carry anything, no matter the weight, the heavier it gets. And the heavier it is, the sooner it gets too heavy to carry. So a 4 lb notebook is heavier than a 2 lb netbook is heavier than a .5 lb slate. Nothing weighs nothing if you have to carry it on your shoulder for a mile or so (or that very long walk from the car to the plane).
0 Votes
+ -
@NStalnecker Once again, you are totally out of touch. Weight is EVERYTHING.

Seriously? Full-size laptops weigh nothing? Every carried one around all day? I have...I've carried a full-size laptop and an iPad for a full day...guess which one made my shoulder sore because I had to carry a shoulder strap case that had power supply and the laptop because I had to have a way to charge it being in conferences all day?

Guess which one didn't because I had it in a small case the size of a porfolio that carried the bluetooth keyboard and stand? Guess which one lasted the ENTIRE conference day without having to be charged?

Your posts are comical do you know that?
0 Votes
+ -
Um, yes I have.
Cylon Centurion Updated - 24th Aug 2010
@NStalnecker

Also by a shoulder strap. The laptop and power brick weigh next to nothing. The case is aluminum too. I guess when you carry around text books all day, newer laptops feel like nothing. Time to eat some Wheaties?

http://www.studentbuyingguide.com/2009/11/hp-dm3t-review/
0 Votes
+ -
Contributr
Some myths
Mary Jo Foley 24th Aug 2010
Hi....

I thought some of these things were myths too. But the iPad is a lot more portable than a netbook, IMHO. It is lighter and smaller than the Toshiba netbook loaner I have. It starts up and shuts down more quickly. The battery life on the iPad is 8-10+ hours. Price: Look at the pricing in my story -- a number of these Win 7 slates are coming in over $1,000. I paid $650 for the iPad I bought that has both Wifi and 3G...

Food for thought... I want a WinPad. But not just Win7 thrown onto a slate form factor without the tweaks and adjustments... MJ
0 Votes
+ -
That $1,000 price tag is surprising...
Cylon Centurion Updated - 24th Aug 2010
@Mary Jo Foley

Especially considering we have Archos, who not to long ago released a Windows 7 tablet for only $429.99 ( Link ). Even more so considering the pads have nothing more than netbook internals.

As for the weight issue, the iPad (1.6 lbs) is only about a pound lighter than my ASUS T101MT (2.86 lbs), but that can vary when you get into the HP touchsmart laptops, that I can understand, but for Windows powered tablets, they shouldn't be as heavy as Donnieboy is making them out to be. For example, the Archos tablet weighs in at a whopping 1.76 lbs ( Link ) - Just a *little* bit heavier than the iPad. That isn't heavy at all Donnie .

But the one thing that KILLS these machines is battery power. Maybe it is just me, but laptop batteries seem to have changed very little, which is rather disappointing as I am sure there are ways to power these tablets for more than 6.5 hours. We just need to find out how, yet very few, if anyone, seem to be taking the incentive to do so.

BTW, I have to ask what people's obsession is with "instant-on". Most correctly configured Windows machines power on in under 20 seconds. I'm just curious, as I didn't think that was too long to wait... (Serious replies please!)
0 Votes
+ -
@NStalnecker
Yes my Sony Vaio P Series runs Win7 Ultimate in full Aero (just a bit sluggish on Window moves) and weighs LESS than an iPad (620g vs 730g for 3G models) and has 56% more pixels, though touchscreen would be nice on it.

The point is, most netbooks are still 1kg or so and still not so small.

Now the P Series could do with more battery life, but after seeing how people using iPads mostly use them sparodically, I found that using sleep mode allows me to be to full Win 7 in three seconds (though more for full internet connection).

Now, if Win 8 is made more power friendly when in use, it's use on netbook (or smaller) devices, possibly including touchscreens (but not the full convertable regime), may well displace iPad type tablet devices for many.

After all, I find it is nice to have portability AND access to FULL computer capabilities.
0 Votes
+ -
Instant on allows continuity of thought
Patanjali Updated - 24th Aug 2010
@NStalnecker
Regarding the focus on instant on. It does allow being able to quickly access information without possibly being distracted while waiting.

I have had the chance to observe several people using i
Pads and noted that many uses were spur of the moment. Well, a moment is not very long, and sometimes just the thought of waiting is enough to not bother. I have noticed that in the waiting time, my thoughts can wander enough to lose the impetus of what it was I wanted to look up. The next time, I am ahead of the wait and start thinking whether I can bother.

That is why I now run my Vaio P in sleep mode. Three seconds is better than 35-50. Also, off is one second, which means 'close and go'.
0 Votes
+ -
Thanks. Now instant off
Cylon Centurion 25th Aug 2010
Would be nice. There are many times were I have to get running to class and have to wait for the machine to shut down. sad
@DonnieBoy ... You have it right of all I read here! Good thinking.
@DonnieBoy Spot on Donnie. Microsoft is WAY behind, anything they come out with will be less than what is being offered now.
0 Votes
+ -
Those criteria are all relative
Patanjali 24th Aug 2010
@DonnieBoy
You make out that they are all absolutes that MS can never hope to surmount.

However, they are just relativities that are always countered against the usefullness of Win 7 for what else it brings to the table.

Longer battery life is one that would always be very usefull, but as I cite below, my Full Win7 U Vaio P is lighter than an iPad. It certainly costs more, but one that I was willing to pay for my purposes: a 'just in case I need it' full Win machine.

I would not be able to run it all day, but for where I (not others) would use it for long periods, the power adaptor is lighter and less bulky than my wallet!

Only a moderate betterment in one or two of your cited criteria may be enough to keep many people with a Win device rather than make a wholesale change to a more limited device (with respect to usual Win 7 usage).

Of course, that is not to say that there are not many uses for iPad-like devices, but that the choice line for staying with Win is not necessarilly so removed from the limitations of current hardware. It is just that at the moment, there is a great chasm, but it is not always going to be so.
After surviving the windows trail from Dos to Win7, MS should have learned a lesson that is not being applied on the Win7 Phone and the tablet. Beta testing of the shell is a vital necessity to success. One wonders how myopic these product managers are, in constantly re-ionventing the wheel of failure?
0 Votes
+ -
I Find It Hilarious
cyberslammer 24th Aug 2010
The failures keep on piling up...this will be Microsoft's next flop along with Windows Phone 7....

The laughter will never die.
0 Votes
+ -
Did you even read the blog?
Cylon Centurion 25th Aug 2010
@cyberslammer

The project wasn't canned.
0 Votes
+ -
@cyberslammer
So playing an over-the-top anti-MS just isn't as funny as it might have been in the past.

So you can probably stop the act now and be yourself.
0 Votes
+ -
Does a bear crap in the woods? Of course they should. But it should be extensible using standard methods. Let the vendor provide differentiating capabilities to attract customers, but in such a way that the developers can build apps that co-exist across all vendor offerings.
0 Votes
+ -
Sad MS and its partners cannot create a
rmark@... 24th Aug 2010
IPad like device running Win7 or Win CE with the equivalant pricing and hardware specs. That tells me there is going to be problems with the first ones out.

They really should look into Retrofiting the Windows Phone 7 OS for this type of device.
0 Votes
+ -
Why all the hate?
NonZealot 24th Aug 2010
Seriously, why can't there be a market for both scaled down OS tablets like Android, WP7 and that other one while still creating products with an OS on it that can run all the existing applications from your desktop? Can't any of you see the advantage in having a choice between these 2 platforms?

Ask yourself why other people must fail for you to feel like you've won.
@NonZealot We don't want them to fail, Android is going to probably do it right, what is going to fail is Microsoft for being too lazy to go and put a real true to life touch OS on a touch device, but instead just throw a point and click OS on a tablet and call it "innovative"...that's what's so pathetic, they think they can throw it out and say it's something new and innovative.
@cyberslammer
Every company, gasp, Apple included, says their stuff is innovative, whether it is or not. If that bothers you, you need to develop a thicker skin.

put a real true to life touch OS on a touch device, but instead just throw a point and click OS on a tablet

But that's my point. Why does it bother you so much that MS might continue releasing tablets that support desktop applications on them? People who don't need that functionality will buy tablets / slates with slimmed down OSs that are light, have made certain sacrifices so they are touch optimized, and have great battery life. For those people, WP7 or Android are great options. However, for all those who have really liked their full OS tablets, why do you hope that they lose the capabilities that they've had for years? They should lose functionality because you don't want that functionality? How silly is that? Sure, those devices might be heavier and might not have the battery life of an Android device but so what? If that was the only factor in a purchase, I could say that Android devices suck because their batteries don't last 3 years like my calculator does. If my calculator can't perform the tasks I need it to (like run desktop apps), battery life is meaningless.

I guess I just don't understand why we can't have Android and WP7 devices selling for $500 to millions of people and have Windows 7 devices (and Linux devices) selling for $1,000 to hundreds of thousands of people. What's wrong with that?
@cyberslammer

"we don't want them to fail"

Whoa. Who's this "we" Kimosabe ?

Linux users probably want M$ to fail. I'm a Mac user, and I definitely want them to fail.

Laughter is the best medicine.

When the Kin was pulled, I chuckled and shook my head in puzzlement. When Courier was abandoned after all the eager anticipation, I guffawed.

As Microsoft loses it's grip, openings are created for dozens of smaller American companies to step in and compete.

And THAT prospect has me laughing for sheer joy.
0 Votes
+ -
@JKirk: at least you admit it
NonZealot 24th Aug 2010
Laughter is the best medicine.

At least you admit that you are sick and that laughing at MS when they fail is the cure for what ails you. Think about how pathetic that makes you sound though!

PS Even with failures like Kin, MS still makes more profit than Apple does. How does that make you feel? happy
@NonZealot
I think the majority here are arguing that Windows Phone 7 sounds like the more sane option. Now what you described sounds good to be sure but I think it is fair to say there is a level of fair doubt that it can be done without sacrifice. Which is a classic problem for all such devices. Apple and Android face the same problem of form factor vs features and vice versa. There is also the question of weather the tablet is meant to be a full blown computer and will it function well as one ? There would be some that argue the initial failure for the past 10 years or so of the first slates or tablets was the attempt to make it just another computer system, and not realizing that instead of making it what it was not meant to be rather play to the form factors strengths.

I'll grant you there is some hate here as well but heck I am talking to NonZ right? Pot meet kettle. Kettle... pot.

Pagan jim
0 Votes
+ -
I can hardly wait for a Windows 7 tablet...
i8thecat Updated - 24th Aug 2010
I think it's high time they go from vaporware to flopperware... The big story this Christmas will be about how much Windows 7 sucks on a slate, 5 people camped out to be the first to own and then return one... It'll be a blast to watch... A big fat nerdy dad forcing his dork son to take his new slate with him to school so he can be ridiculed by his peers. I hope they have ebook readers, and maybe, you can get through 3 or 4 pages before it locks up or the battery dies... It'll be awesome... I can hardly wait... LOL
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Another Windows 7 slate dropped from this year's Christmas list
dsfwrryd4101-24353678324541271121611409328105 10th Nov
kgwbcz,good post!

Join the conversation!

Formatting +
BB Codes - Note: HTML is not supported in forums
  • [b] Bold [/b]
  • [i] Italic [/i]
  • [u] Underline [/u]
  • [s] Strikethrough [/s]
  • [q] "Quote" [/q]
  • [ol][*] 1. Ordered List [/ol]
  • [ul][*] · Unordered List [/ul]
  • [pre] Preformat [/pre]
  • [quote] "Blockquote" [/quote]
ie8 fix

The best of ZDNet, delivered

ZDNet Newsletters

Get the best of ZDNet delivered straight to your inbox

Facebook Activity

White Papers, Webcasts, & Resources
ie8 fix