At Microsoft, is age more than just a number?

By | December 30, 2009, 7:36am PST

Summary: Is age is more than just a number when it comes to tech innovation and ideas? As we enter the 10s, the majority of top leaders at Microsoft are in their 40s and 50s. Are they too old to keep Microsoft at the cutting edge in our Tweet-happy, Foursquare-obsessed world?

I’m not a big one for New Year’s resolutions, but I do reflect at the end of each year on what happened and what’s to come next. I leaf through my virtual correspondence folders, reflecting on memorable reader notes, both good and bad. In my “Trolls, Zealots and Other *#@&^#%+s folder,” I noticed a few e-mails (mostly from Mac users, for some reason) advising me to go back and sit in my rocker and leave tech punditry to the younger generation.

That got me thinking — not about following the advice of those obviously concerned and caring fanboys — but about whether age is more than just a number when it comes to tech innovation and ideas. As we enter the 10s, the majority of top leaders at Microsoft are in their 40s and 50s. Are they too old to keep Microsoft at the cutting edge in our Tweet-happy, Foursquare-obsessed world? Is Microsoft a place where Generation Y/Millennials will want to join and stay in the coming years?

I’m not the only one pondering these questions. Microsoft’s top brass are, too. Among this past fall’s batch of ThinkWeek papers (employee-authored papers on various cultural, technical and other topics important to Microsoft’s future) was one entitled “Are You Ready for Generation Y?: Motivating and retaining Generation Y through managerial paradigm shift and the adoption of Enterprise Social Media tools.” I had a chance to read the 14-page “External Version” (i.e., approved for non-Microsoft employees) of this paper, courtesy of its author, Prem Kumar, Operations Manager with Microsoft’s Online Systems Division.

The external version of this paper omits a lot of the juicy details that we Microsoft watchers would love to see. But the copy I saw still included some interesting tidbits.

Kumar’s premise is Microsoft needs to make some changes to attract and keep younger workers, and company officials realize this. He noted:

“Microsoft’s three-year retention rate for entry-level hires is at 78% in 2009 while entry-level hiring is down 58.4% from 2008 to 2009 (BusinessWeek 2009). That being said, the retention of young talent is still a huge focus at Microsoft. This focus will become even more important when the economy turns.”

The traditional corporate “motivators” aren’t as of as much importance to Generation Y, he said. He surveyed fifteen 23 to 29 year-olds who worked at Microsoft, other big companies and startups, in addition to performing other interviews and research. From his findings:

“My research has shown that 401ks, salaries and other forms of monetary compensation are less important to Generation Y retention than fruitful collaboration with peers, recognition of work, opportunities for growth and the idea of “being a part of something”. These young employees are less averse to change and will tirelessly seek environments that promote these activities, leaving those that don’t.”

Kumar offered a few calls to action, aimed at “people managers” at the company. Among them:

  • Start a Reverse Mentoring Program To utilize Millennials’ confidence, desire for growth, desire for being a part of something and technical skills (a tutoring for older employees program or something along those lines)
  • Assign workspace with Millennials in close proximity with one another
  • Feedback, Feedback, Feedback: “Though Millennials don’t like to be micro-managed, they love feedback,” Kumar said. He listed regular, structured 1:1’s, informal reviews official corporate-wide ones, and the use of online tools.
  • Incorporate informal recognition programs: Millennials have “grown up in a system where they are recognized for their achievements, small and large and continuing that in the workplace can be fun and easy,” Kumar advised.
  • Greater incorporation of social media tools and technologies in the corporate setting, providing “instant access to information,” as well as externally to interact with non-employees

I’ve been privileged to get to know a number of Generation Y bloggers who cover Microsoft in the course of my work and have learned a lot from them. I’ve also, in the past year, (while kicking and screaming all the way) come to know and love Twitter. I’m not ready for that rocking chair, and I doubt folks like Microsoft Chief Software Architect Ray Ozzie or Chief Research and Strategy Officer Craig Mundie are, either.

What’s your take? Is Microsoft still a place younger employees want to and will want to work? Is the 40/50-something leadership there open enough to new ideas? If not, what could and should Microsoft’s managers do differently? (If your answer is fire CEO Steve Ballmer, put your comment over here and don’t clutter up this Talkback thread, please!)

(Rocking chair photo: Courtesy of Serim Yilmaz)

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Topics

Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

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RE: At Microsoft, is age more than just a number?
jackson1984-24316069205748857739440257893812 10th Oct
Now i reebok jerseys am definitely relatively refreshing to wp. but that which you publish on this term large website log is essentially outstanding and pretty valuable.
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What Kumar found was exactly what we (20 somethings) in the early 80's said when we were asked (on opinion surveys) what motivated us. The reason for discounting compensation a bit may be different then than now, but the other reasons are the same.
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Ageism: It happens and its getting worse
D T Schmitz Updated - 3rd Jan 2010
Your coworkers may smile and appear cordial, but if you are among the 'gray-haired' ranks, beware of those smiles.

Especially the younger ones. Quite often, the sincerity just isn't there when you poke a hole through their thin veneer.

Truthfully, younger Folk will just not like you, simply because of your age, and in the workplace that has insidious ways of working against you no matter how good you are.

It's kind of like the TV show Survivor, only worse.

Good Luck to the senior MS staff--have your 'golden parachutes' ready.

Happy New Year Mary Jo, Everyone.
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Have to disagree here as well.
BrandonLive 30th Dec 2009
In my experience, gray hair won't automatically earn you respect... but I haven't seen cases where it's diminished it. It doesn't take long to figure out which "old timers" really know their stuff and are "with the program." In fact, many of them have invaluable experience to share. Some of the more overly confident newcomers may take a little while to realize they're the ones with some catching up to do. Figuring that out is a valuable lesson in of itself.
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Color me jaded. It happens. Trust me.
D T Schmitz 30th Dec 2009
nt
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Absolutely Correct
Bill4 30th Dec 2009
The large Japanese company I've worked for the last four years--they acquired the American company that was home for the previous twenty one years--really trashed it's older staff. They offered a sadly weak buy out package to everyone over 62 then a month later offered a similar package to everyone over 60. The few who didn't take the buy out, having been warned that it might not be offered again, were shortly fired along with most of the over 55 staff. The dumping ratio was about 30 older worker to 5 younger.

I am contractually obligated to not name this scandalous company, but they do have a mostly young staff. I noticed at the technical staff' Christmas luncheon that, aside from me, the old man of the group was 53.
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they've broken the law. Any contract you have with them does not
preclude your notifying the proper authorities.
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Which is probably why
Mahegan 15th Jan 2010
they kept a few token oldies. Smoke-screen, so that when asked "Did you fire everyone over "x" age, they can answer 'No'." After that, the defence will be asked to prove their claim... Smoke and Mirrors.

The "old guy" is cheaper to retain than defending a class action on age discrimination.

Let us know if the wheel-chair and shawl are comfortable.

Oh, and then they will get rid of you in 18 months' time, just a few weeks after the time for filing under statute of limitations has expired... Yep - I'd wager $50 on it.
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Those call to actions are good suggestions but besides that is needs an attitude change where mgmt will genuinely listen. People can easily see thru is a sham if the exercise is done for exercise sake. Authenticity and empowerment are much needed in big corps.
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Why would a top prospect in 2010 even consider joining
Microsoft if they have the a job opportunity at Google or
Apple? Because they like the weather in Seattle better?

The only entry level people MS can get these days are those
who Google and Apple don't want and haven't found an
exciting start-up either.
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Really? Do a search
John Zern Updated - 30th Dec 2009
and you'd be surprised at the amount of top level people, The 'best and the brightest' either leaving Google, or passing them up staight out to go to other places, Microsoft included.

Sure if both prospects are equal, I might pass up cold Wahington weather for that of sunny California, but there are quite a few that would rather be part of moving an MS forward, then being stuck in some low level programming job at Google.

The best and the brightest don't want to work for Google, either. It true, and it's happening as we speak.
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Not my experience
BrandonLive 30th Dec 2009
I interviewed at Google a few years ago and wasn't interested. There are a lot more factors to consider than you seem to have accounted for.

Microsoft's culture is a much better fit for me. If I wanted to feel like I was still in college and practically live on campus I'd go back to school. If I wanted to be treated like a cog in a machine, interchangeable with others at management's whim, maybe Google would be just right.

If I were to leave Microsoft it'd be for something far more interesting than Google or Apple... and I won't lie and say I haven't on occassion been tempted.
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I did look at Google first
JessMeats 4th Jan 2010
When I was at university, thinking about future jobs and entering the real world, I happened to go to an event in Google's London offices. They have extremely nice offices and excellent food.

I applied for Google because of their offices. I applied for Microsoft as an afterthought because one of my housemates mentioned he was applying to them.

I couldn't give those as reasons for wanting to join a company in the interviews, so I did my homework and looked into what the jobs would actually entail. I'm now really glad I ended up in Microsoft (which also has nice offices and nice food). I want to be involved in a company that's primary focus is making technology not selling advertising space.
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Followers, not Innovators...
prof123 Updated - 5th Feb 2010
You joined a company which rarely comes up with an original idea, they are past their prime. I hope they didn't give you stock options...
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Really?
Rama.NET 5th Feb 2010
>>You joined a company which rarely comes up with an original idea,
they are past their prime.
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Sorry dude
Cylon Centurion 30th Dec 2009
But that is simply not true.
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came across this:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/30/xbox_mobile/

This is a prime example of the old managers at MS not having vision, and therefore not getting much respect from genY. MS has had the pieces:

Windows mobile, check
Zune, check
Xbox 360, check

If MS had any vision at all, they could have developed a killer mobiles device, like the iPhone or Android devices, including good mobile gaming. They spend 10B a year on research, but don't seem to get much for it. They could have done major damage to both PSP and NDS, held the iPhone and Android at bay, but are just too old and set in their ways to come up with anything cool and ground breaking.

Finally, they seem to want to go in that direction, but it is probably going to be too late and too weak.

MS is like the old battle ships of WW2. Wars are not fought that way any longer and MS is not able to really be in the fight.
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I'll have to disagree.
John Zern 30th Dec 2009
MS isn't a hardware for profit company, like Apple. You blame MS for missing the phone thing, when you should really be comparing Apple to Sony.

MS I can forgive for not coming up with an "iphone" (thought they had OS's for the smartphone market, so tell me what so different about the iPhone?) but Sony, they had all the pieces and more, as they own media content.

They should have had the vision as they had:

Sony Erricson: Check
MP3 players: check
PlayStation: check
Sony Entertainment: Check
Manufacturing: Check

Yet they and others that compete directlly with Apple (MS really doesn't in terms of core products) missed the boat.

So to say that "old folks" at MS missed that which younger people trained in hardware based products at other companies missed is really not a fair comparison.

Because MS's primary focus is software, not hardware.
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Disagree
Economister 31st Dec 2009
I will not argue about Sony. They have their own problems.

Regarding MS, their responsibility is to make money for the shareholders, and if that "forces" them into HW then it does (besides they make HW when it suits them). To take your argument to its logical conclusion, if open source starts to make real inroads in the desktop/notebook market, I guess MS should just give up and "die", because their business (SW) is no longer viable.

You make the strategic moves you have to make in order to protect and grow your business. The problem with MS is that they are failing to do that. That is why they have been stagnating. And I attribute that directly to those in charge, and age is at least one important factor.
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MS & Mobile...
prof123 5th Feb 2010
MS has been in the mobile software business for 15 years and the best they did was some crappy software and ring tones. Along coms Google with their Android OS and it blows Windows Mobile out of the water, it's like day and night. Ditto for their IE browser...
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True ...
orionds 2nd Jan 2010
Quote

MS is like the old battle ships of WW2. Wars are not fought that way any longer and MS is not able to really be in the fight.

Unquote

Yes, and MS is trying to fight on too many fronts. They tried to get into too many areas - starting with MS Word to knock out Wordperfect and with each new software or technology coming out, MS wanted to take over. They succeeded in some but a lot of them just fell by the wayside

Like all would-be conquerors, MS has spread itself too thin and is getting battle-worn while the new upstarts, barbarians so to say, are hammering on the "gates (no pun intended) of Rome".

Will the MS empire fall? Pretty likely, I think. Like other empires, MS is held down by what it expanded on - domination by exercising its power and influence - and, in so doing, have trodden on too many (allies included).

All ancient Empires have shrunk and though still influential, like the UK, Germany, Japan and possibly even Italy, their heydays have passed.

Like GM, it's almost foregone that MS will pass and shrink to become part of the global IT community but no longer wielding the power and fear that it held for the past decade or so.

GM is on the comeback trail with a more socially and environmentally friendly culture. Will GM achieve the clout of old? It's very doubtful as the past was too much based on power and arrogance. Ford, luckily, saw the light early on and started down a new path of reliability and even economy in contrast to GM. Though not quite the giant of past, Ford has survived and is growing.

If MS execs are smart, they should take a page out of Ford's book.
as well as anybody else's book they could worm their way into.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/08/technology/08gates.html
Microsoft and Ford Combine Products

Anyone who is interested in the underbelly of Microsoft, and their business methods, should read:

http://www.amazon.com/Barbarians-Bill-Gates-Jennifer-Edstrom/dp/0805057544
Barbarians Led by Bill Gates
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Innovation is not a young game
mdhemphill 5th Jan 2010
Who do you think came up with the Iphone at Apple?

I bet it was not some 20 something kid.

MS misses the boat because they have stopped being innovative. Most of the ideas that come from MS have been created by other companies that MS has bought out and enveloped those technologies into Windows or some other MS product.

Check your history concerning MS and how they've developed from the beginning.
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I disagree
A.Sinic 8th Feb 2010
These reports seem to indicate that the innovation is there, but the company seems to have diffulty in letting it bubble up into the shipping products.
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Whoops, ignore this.
BrandonLive Updated - 30th Dec 2009
Hit wrong reply button.
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Life gamerscore: the future!
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Bad ideas are not age specific
chrome_slinky@... 30th Dec 2009
So it really does not matter what the ages are of the developers at Microsoft. It is the quality of ideas that are important.

There are good and bad from all age groups, and what I find objectionable about Microsoft seems to be inculcated upon contact with Microsoft, so things are unlikely to change much in the future.

Microsoft will see a decline, but it is more about the things started many years ago, that will never go away as long as the company bears that name than any proper-age thought process.
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Agreed!
mdhemphill 5th Jan 2010
I totally agree with everything you have stated.
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Sorry, but....
techboy_z 30th Dec 2009


My research has shown that 401ks, salaries and other forms of monetary compensation are less important to Generation Y retention than fruitful collaboration with peers, recognition of work, opportunities for growth and the idea of ?being a part of something?.
[end quote]

Sorry, but that's just bogus! Gen Y-ers are gonna be just as concerned about making decent money as any other generation! Particularly as it is becoming more and more expensive to live in the U.S., with huge tax increases looming due to national debt issues and socialist handout programs. Gen Y may be all naively utopian while in college...but that is like any other generation. Now in the workforce, the reality of paying bills sets in. To say otherwise is not reality. I could give a horse cr@p about fuzzy feelings and "being part of something" if I'm not paid well enough relative to what I could fetch elsewhere.

The reality is that younger techies see the writing on the wall for Microsoft, which has consistently bucked tech standardization, openness, and interoperability -- which are NOT fuzzy concepts of togetherness, but of *technical* importance, and of import to the user base. They impact ease of integration by techies and the ease of use and widespreadedness of the user base. The assumption that an OS monopoly will yield the rest is no longer true in a webified and mobile device-driven world, vs. a thick-client, desktop-based world. Microsoft has made some shifts, but they have been too small and far too late -- the game is already lost in regards to dominance...which yields time to market and openness as the all-important drivers for attaining mass-market with a new site or application. The applications drive the user base. And the young techies are going where there is understanding of how to build critical-mass applications and how to do it openly.

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Can you please post a link to Prem Kumar's external version?
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Please provide link to Prem Kumar paper
JimWeinhold 30th Dec 2009
Yes please provide a link to the external version of the paper from Prem Kumar that you reference. I've been looking for it but so far I've not been able to find it.
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Contributr
I'll ask him if I can post it. If so, I will... Thanks. MJ
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GREAT read with substance
samater03 30th Dec 2009
Kumar's piece was a GREAT read. As GEN Y employee, I agree with the points made.
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Given that Jobs is almost 55.
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RE: At Microsoft, is age more than just a number?
jsenior Updated - 30th Dec 2009
Hi Mary-Jo

This article struck a chord with me,
particularly
because I am one of those generation Y people
at
Microsoft you describe. Everyday at work, I am
delighted and frustrated by the company: it's
like a
love/hate relationship.

However, I'm under no illusion that this is
common no
matter what company you work for from tech
behemoth to
nimble startup. There will always be things
that are
good and bad about any job you do. Every
morning I
still keep coming to work, eager, excited,
trying to
change the world and one day at a time, I think
I
will.

James Senior
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Sounds a lot like working at Apple
use_what_works_4_U 4th Jan 2010
At it sounds a lot like my feelings about working
at Apple when I was there.

You are right, this dichotomy is pretty much
universal. Keep your attitude where it is and you
just might change the world after all.

happy
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Not True at All
jeff.y.lin@... 31st Dec 2009
It's sad to see such an innovative company struggle to find it's identity. It's true what the article says, the new group of workers are just not fit for the stodgy culture that permeates every corner of the company. I should know, I was once part of that big machine.

Mentorship, 1:1's and everything in between are nice. But it doesn't get to the root of the problem, which is a culture that doesn't really value fresh ideas or youthful energy. Although, you can't really blame them for doing so. It is a company that is always amongst the most profitable year after year, so really, whats reasons is there for them to change?

The takeaway here is that if you are young, there are many places where you can attain the goals in which you set for youself. If you are really interested in looking to make an impact, MSFT is definitely not the place to be if you are anywhere below 30.
What you mention is perfectly fine and dandy when you live at home or have a start up in a garage.

When you have a million or billion dollar company that is beholden to stock holders whom want to see a profit in their investment. You need to have ideas that are beneficial immediately and with some type of professional credentials behind them.

A manager is always concerned with this first and not trying to appease the younger minds at the company, especially if your job is on the line.
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I think Microsoft's biggest problem is the way they focus
on product development. They have a large emphasis on
features but they pay very little attention to how people
FEEL about their products.

This is fine for business solutions but not so great for
consumer products. People tend to emotionally bond with
their technology in the same way that they bond with their
cars. This is something that MS seems to have trouble
taking into account.

If you want to attract Gen Y you have to be the company
that builds exiting products, not ones with the most
features. As MS becomes more of an MBA company they
will find themselves further and further from "exiting".
Interesting article. I think the best and the brightest go where there is interesting work. Lots of companies out there doing interesting work. Also, ageism is pathetic. I'm 40 and I'm tired of hearing that we hired so and so because their younger and hippier or some other stupid reason. I've had to come into too many of these companies and clean up the mess some young, inexperience hack does to someones source base. Youth has nothing to do with innovation. Ideas do. Drive does. And to be frankly honest, experience in the trenches trumps if you want that idea to become a reality. The key for folks is to evolve your skills and keep on top of the technology trends. I'll take an old dog he keeps up any day over a rising star. The old dog has been through it all and realizes nothing really changes that much. Tools evolve. Techniques evolve. And so should engineers. That's what's more important. As far as Apple, Google or Microsoft, I would work for any of these folks (I'd contract there though). Many of these company pay ok, but expect long hours. that drives down your hourly rate. You may be making 100K or more a year, but if your working 80 hr weeks, your working 2 50K jobs. Nothing more. I find a lot of companies take advantage of folks in this way. Anyway, my 2 cents of the day.
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So many times we hear this banal, hackneyed, lame-ass idea
bantered around - "These old timers don't get it!" Yes, a 25-
year-old ADD-addled dork in some tiny little freetard bubble
twittering recycled, misspelt trash to his echo chamber
'network' somehow has his pulse on the 250 other
FourSquare users and is going to rise above the 3 billion
Windows users and take the world by storm. Balls. What
about Steve Jobs? He's old. He still has some ideas. I expect
more from Mary Jo Foley than this stupid prattle.
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I feel, at 42, the same way as the individuals polled by the author. Those same job characteristics identified by the Gen "Y" generation concerning job retention are of great concern to myself, now.

I want and hope any company that I work for is going to be honest, concerned about my feelings and well being, my ability to stay productive, my current abilities and the enhancement of those abilities for more opportunities within the organization to gain my retention. If a company doesn't have that emphasis from the beginning and doesn't present them within the first 6 months, it is not a company I want to be a part of for very long.

I think the author of the survey may have misstated what this current generation is really interested in within an organization? I constantly get the inclination that the current generation doesn't want to be in a position that deals with starting at the bottom and working toward the top for a meager wage?

I think this was something my generation and previous generations before mine took into account and embraced without reservation. Most people in the 50+ age bracket did not start off in charge and making 50 thousand or more the first year with a company. It took those individuals many years of hard work.
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Age, ability
Mahegan 15th Jan 2010
So, where is the evidence to equate age or aging with inability to innovate?

Usually, it is the SIZE of the organisational structure that kills it off, eventually, unless the organisation joins the "TOO BIG TO FAIL" status, that GM and some of the banks currently enjoy.

M$ will fail (or become a government entity) as a consequence of its size, not the age of its employees.
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every one knows about microsoft and how they do
business, i just love the way the way they do
------------
peter
kni
ghtsbridge business sales

knightsbridge business sales

knigh
tsbridge business sales
maybe yes maybe no, I think age is just a number and has
little to do with bright ideas. Some people are grown
when they are 15 years old and some are still struggling
to grow up, like me, when they are 40. It is for the employer to find the magic touch, combining young minds
with wild minds and correct minds with humble or witty
minds,maybe adult minds, or via versa. everybody has a
unique road to go, and even though the road leads to the
same destination, hopefully success, not everybody
arrives at the same time.
0 Votes
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RE: At Microsoft, is age more than just a number?
jackson1984-24316069205748857739440257893812 10th Oct
Now i reebok jerseys am definitely relatively refreshing to wp. but that which you publish on this term large website log is essentially outstanding and pretty valuable.

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