Better the Windows Vista devil you know than the Windows 7 one you don't?

By | April 16, 2008, 2:20pm PDT

Forrester Research is advising its clients against skipping Windows Vista when planning their operating system deployments. But one of the reasons Forrester is using — because Vista’s successor, Windows 7, will no doubt will be late — is not a good assumption, in my book.

As crazy as this sounds, I don’t think I’d count on Windows 7 being late — even though Microsoft’s track record for on-time Windows deliveries is abysmal. The primary reason: Steven Sinofsky. Sinofsky is the head of Windows and Windows Live Engineering. He used to run Office development. One of Sinofsky’s biggest claims to fame is making the trains run on time.

Couple Sinofsky’s track record with the fact that Windows 7 will likely be a minor upgrade to Vista, plus the fact that the Softies gave themselves quite a bit of extra breathing room with the 2010 due date, and I’d say it’s more likely Windows 7 will ship early than late.

Forrester’s guidance was part of a pair of Vista-related studies the market-research outfit released on April 16. (Neither of these was based on a survey of a set group of customers; both were “anecdotal, based on discussions Forrester has had with its clients about their plans,” a company representative noted.)

In “Lessons Learned From Early Adopters Of Windows Vista: How Businesses Can Overcome The Most Common Migration Challenges,” Forrester Researcher Benjamin Gray offers business users a checklist to help with Vista migrations. On the shortlist are a number of common-sense tips, including “Tie the OS upgrade to your natural PC refresh cycle to ensure hardware compatibility” and “Stay on top of your independent software vendors to ensure application compatibility.”

In the other report, “Building The Business Case For Windows Vista: Five Reasons to Start Your Migration Soon,” Gray advises business users against waiting for Windows 7 and expecting to jump from an older Windows release directly to Windows 7, which Microsoft has said it will ship in 2010.

Forrester claims that “for large businesses, there’s no viable alternative” to moving to Vista. “According to our latest hardware survey, Microsoft operating systems are powering 99% of North American and European enterprise PCs and 97% of small to medium-size business (SMB) PCs,” Gray said. Gray decribed Mac OSX and Linux as alternatives for specific niches only.

Gray said the availability of Vista SP1, plus Microsoft’s decision to phase out XP on the bulk of new PCs, as of July 1, also were good reasons companies should plan on moing to Vista. Windows 7 is largely an unknown, at this point, Gray argued:

“To be blunt, customers know very little about Windows 7. Besides when it’s slated to become available, they know that it’s going to be a full release. Meaning? It’s going to have a business version and a consumer version — and knowing Microsoft, multiple versions of each. It’s also going to support both 32- and 64-bit computing. Beyond these tidbits, everything else is pure rumor and speculation. But it’s important to keep in mind that Microsoft doesn’t exactly have a clean track record for delivering products on time. It also tends to strip out promised features in order to hit deadlines (e.g., WinFS from Windows Vista). Ironically, one of Microsoft’s biggest weaknesses — the unpredictable release schedule of its desktop operating systems — will likely spur adoption of Windows Vista as a result of this lack of faith in Microsoft delivering Windows 7 on time.”

There’s no question that most customers have next-to-no real information on Windows 7. But do you agree with Forrester that the devil you know (Vista) is better than the one you don’t (Windows 7)?

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Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

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RE: Better the Windows Vista devil you know than the Windows 7 one you don't?
dsfwrryd2001-24353660379567082961029011932533 11th Nov
avmqkg,good post!
0 Votes
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Doesn't matter really
No_Ax_to_Grind 16th Apr 2008
The Windows train just keeps on rolling.
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Message has been deleted.
itanalyst2@... Updated - 28th Apr 2008
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Competition
1g2j 16th Apr 2008
I don't know who hate Microsoft the most: You, DonnieBoy, or Frothy....Sometimes, it is good to actually read the article before coming out with one of your predictable rants.
0 Votes
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Competition?
Hemlock Stones 17th Apr 2008
The word no one at Microsoft dares speak in the presence of Steve or Bill. Microsoft deserves to be admonished for the way they do business (past and present), and when they produce inferior software. This just happens a lot more than most NBM's care to admit.
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?
1g2j 17th Apr 2008
Answer this, Is bet you typing your response from an MSFT made OS? If you is do not waste your time and type an response.
0 Votes
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Possibly me ...
fr0thy2 19th Apr 2008
because I will be feeling precisely ZERO sorrow at layoffs or share price crashes at MS. It's an artificial market that's been destroying progress for a long long time.

Funny thing this "Windows Defending" thing : people who claim to be technologists (who are actually just power users/consumers too dumb/lazy to learn more than noddy-OS) are happy that the less well off feed the rich to destroy progress.

Yeah I know, you don't get it.
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The Train Wreck Has Happened
SteveMak 17th Apr 2008
Its name is Vista. Microsoft is now in damage-control mode, trying to clean up the environmental damage. It's an uphill battle.

Hey, have you seen the Microsoft Vista video?
http://www.youtube.com/v/sPv8PPl7ANU&hl

Interesting links also at:
http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9920713-1.html?tag=recentPosts
http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/17/microsofts-vista-promo-video-just-a-spoof/
  • Flagged
0 Votes
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Interesting.
Cayble 18th Apr 2008
It would take the money of MS to put a video like that together, given its actually fairly good musically and has some decent production values and is a rather reasonable take off on Springsteen.
0 Votes
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Interesting.
Cayble 18th Apr 2008
It would take the money of MS to put a video like that together, given that its actually fairly good musically and has some decent production values and is a rather reasonable take off on Springsteen.

Its way to well done and positive toward MS to be taking a "shot" at MS, and on the other hand its obviously a little over kill to say the least to be taken too seriously. Obviously its a MS internally created Video to create a little light hearted promotion for the MS inner circle. I would hardly point to that video as any sign of impending doom or train-wreak for MS. When you are making so much money you can afford to produce a video like that for little more then the fun of it, you are long past simply winning the game, you are dominating with authority and have profit to burn.

An old story goes that in WWII a Nazi sub had sunk a freighter and some of the sub personnel were surprised to see a birthday cake being shipped to an overseas American soldier float to the surface from the hold of the sunken freighter. Several of the German seaman commented that the Allies were never going to win the war if they were wasting space on a freighter with birthday cakes. The wiser submarine commander who understood the implications told his fellow seamen, "Your fools, when the enemy can afford to put birthday cakes on a freighter, it doesn't mean they are going to lose the war, it means they have already won".
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For the record....
SteveMak 18th Apr 2008
For the record, my comments about Vista being train wreck have nothing to do with this video. They stand on their own.
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... Vista! You may call it a 'train-wreck' but MS and it's OEMs are crying all the way to the bank that a handful of people (most of whom have not even tried to load it onto modern hardware) don't like it.
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Careful about what you count...
SteveMak 18th Apr 2008
Microsoft uses the term "Sold" to also include "Shipped". For example, if an enterprise buys a couple dozen laptops preloaded with Vista, scrubs them, and installs XP Pro (true story), that counts as a couple dozen Vista "sales". It should, because MS made money, even tough the product was chucked in the dust bin.

No doubt MS is making money. OEMs, like Dell and Gateway, have not noticed a significant demand for Vista. In fact, since Vista's debut, the demand for XP has increased! That's why virually all OEMs have gone back to offering XP pre-loaded on PCs. Talk to OEMs and ask them about all the positive feedback they're getting on brand new "Vista-capable" PCs. Oh yes, everyone is happy wink
We all know that.
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uuuuuh...
jebakk 28th Apr 2008
I'm assuming you're talking about OEM's here, but the thing is, like it or not any of the Linux Distros (despte the growing popularity of Ubuntu) are really main-stream enough for OEM's to pre-install them, and Apple on preloads it's OS's on Macs...so where's the monopoly?
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correction
jebakk 28th Apr 2008
The linux distro's are not mainstream enough for OEM's to load them
LULZ....

you cant, because it doesn't exist. does it...
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If one OS release every 3-5 years is Microsoft's definition of "rolling," I'd hate to see them when they're slowed down.
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Two questions:
vulpine@... 17th Apr 2008
Have you noticed that Windows (all versions)
is slipping?
Have you noticed that Mac (all versions) is
growing?

It appears that moss is beginning to grow on
the Windows operating system. If they don't
make a significant improvement soon, that
share will slip even farther.
...the future as switchers realize OS X isn't the panacea of computing they've been led to believe. They'll begin to wonder why they're using two operating systems (OS X and Windows through virtualization/dual boot) when Windows can do it all. They'll also wonder why they should pay more for a computer when it doesn't offer them anything over Windows.

Apple is a master at selling ordinary as extraordinary. The MacBook Air is a prime example. I finally got to see one the other day. And it was no thinner than my R200 (purchased in 2005). Yet Apple has the world convinced they've done something revolutionary.
0 Votes
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Up to a point, your discussion may be valid.
However, an independent test by Popular
Mechanics shows that while in many ways the
Mac OS and Vista aren't that much different,
there is a significant difference in two areas.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technolo
gy/reviews/4258725.html

For some reason, the Mac OS was
significantly and visibly faster than Vista
AND Vista ran significantly faster in the
Macs than in the equivalent Windows boxes
despite the RAM advantage in both cases.

This tells me that the Mac is more
extraordinary than ordinary. The MBA is
hardly a prime example since it was designed
for portability and has far lower stats than
every other model of MacBook currently
available. Even so, it uses a faster Core2Duo
processer and a few other features over and
above your Toshiba R200 and is measurably
(though maybe not visibly unless you put
them side by side) than your R200 (reading
specs for both, not guessing.) 3/4" is less
than 4/5". It has a larger screen, larger drive,
more RAM, ... should I go on? Oh, and that's
based on a Toshiba R200 currently available
on Amazon, not a 3 year old model. So
maybe they have done something
revolutionary.

In other words, there is significant proof that
Apple offers what nobody else does, a
machine that does more and works better
than anybody else's... Including running
Windows better.
0 Votes
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The Mac is just another PC.
ye 17th Apr 2008
I am always amused when Mac fanbois think the Mac, which is now nothing more than a PC, is superior to the PC. It's not.

As for the MacBook Air having a faster processor than my R200 that's not the point. First the R200 is a 2005 model. The MBA is 2008. Is it any surprise it has a faster processor? Second my focus was on the thickness. The MBA is .76" (not .75" as you claimed) thick while my R200 is .77" thick (not .8" as you claimed). That's a mere .01" in thickness, not the .05 of your attempted deception. And if you really want to argue over .01" then the Toshiba 2010 was really .75" thus beating the MBA by .01" even before the R200.

With that said Apple has somehow convinced the world they've done something unique that no one else has ever done. Though others did it long before Apple.
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Re: The MAC is just another PC
Hemlock Stones 17th Apr 2008
Like a full blown gaming PC is just like an inexpensive (or even cheap) PC ?
0 Votes
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Yes. (nt)
ye 17th Apr 2008
Like a full blown gaming PC is just like an inexpensive (or even cheap) PC ?
0 Votes
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Technical specifications
vulpine@... 17th Apr 2008
Whether you choose to believe it or not, I used the
technical specifications of the R200 vs the MBA as
given on the respective web pages mentioned, Amazon
for the R200 and Apple for the MBA. Size alone says
that the difference, while relatively slight, is still a
difference.

And the R200 still comes up short on capabilities over
and above the processor... even the '08 version.
...web sites. The MBA is given a thickness of .76" and the R200 a thickness of .77". A whopping .01"...hardly anything to get excited about. But technically the MBA is thinner. But if you're going to argue .01" then I'll do so and present you with the Toshiba 2010 which is .01" thinner than the MBA at .75".

Regarding processor...it's irrelevant to my point. My point is centered around thickness. Apple has managed to convince the world they're the first (and only) company to produce such a thin notebook when other companies have been doing it for years. And there's nothing preventing other manufacturers from putting the same processor in their ultra portable computers. I imagine they haven't done so due to business reasons and not technical limitations.
0 Votes
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30 years now. I've worked and repaired most everything
that has ever been made. To date I've found that Mac for
me at least make me more productive and from a recent
article I've read IBM is thinking the same way. So I might
not be alone in this assessment. Is the Mac "just another
PC" well technically sure that it is. Is OSX just another OS?
Sure if you want to parse it that way. However the two
together are (again in my opinion mind you) MAGICAL at
least compared to the rest.

Check out these computer pro's opinions......


http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/04/16/ibm-
launches-pilot-program-for-migrating-to-macs/

Pagan jim
0 Votes
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Well, at least Office is available for Macs.
Anton Philidor 17th Apr 2008
When was IBM expecting to have everyone using Linux? People will appropriately complain about changing so often.
0 Votes
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Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah
ye 17th Apr 2008
Mac fanbois have convinced themselves the Mac is more productive. But there has been no proof that Macs are more productive than Windows systems. At least none that have credibility.

The Mac is a like a placebo. People think they're more productive when they're really not. It's a sham. Just like the sham that Apple produced the world first and thinnest laptop when others have been doing it for years.
0 Votes
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heheh
rtk 17th Apr 2008
Yes, 22, with another 50-100 machines this year will effectively eliminate linux and windows from the IBM network.

Wait a tick, isn't IBM a huge enterprise with tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of machines?
While it may be the most compatible for the platform it is lacking in many features now. Specifically anything utilizing VB. It is for this reason I am starting to use my PC more. With the solver functionality now gone from the Mac version of Office I can no longer use the Mac for some of the things I need. And since Windows does everything the Mac does there's little reason to use the Mac. Aside from my post from the other day where I attempted to connect to a W2K share I haven't used my Mac in weeks.
0 Votes
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I suggest you look again, ye...
vulpine@... 18th Apr 2008
The Toshiba R200 on Amazon:
http://shopping.yahoo.com/p:Toshiba%20Portege%20R
200-
S234%20Laptop%20Computer:1991800520:page=detai
ls;_ylt=ApmY8.6Ingj9gEkAEIxt1FAambsF;_ylu=X3oDMT
A5ZW01N2htBHNlYwNiZ3NpYg--

Please note that the dimensions at the bottom of the
specs says: Dimension 0.8 in x 11.3 in x 9 in (HxWxD)

Now note the MBA specs per: http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-
APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?
nnmm=browse&mco=MTE3MzM&node=home/shop_m
ac/family/macbook_air


Dimensions 0.16 to 0.76 x 12.8 x 8.94 inches

This makes the MBA thinner, even if it is by only
.04inches or 10mm.

I have to also wonder why you would say the processor
is insignificant when I'm comparing current models of
both machines and finding that even though the MBA
is severely limited by MacBook standards, it's still
greater than the R200 in so many areas for being
thinner.
This includes a larger screen and built-in
camera, not even available in the R200.
0 Votes
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How'd you make out with your sell ?
None_Zealot 28th Apr 2008
A few months back here on ZDNET you were trying to sell some crappy low end desktop with Windows Vista included for $ 399.99 . Why would you sell such a wonderful machine ? I thought you said Vista will run beautifully on any new machine , and yet you sell it .
0 Votes
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No time to notice it slipping
Ole Man 17th Apr 2008
Too busy jacking and propping it up.
0 Votes
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what dont you understand about 99%
pcguy777 28th Apr 2008
Microsoft operating systems are powering 99% of North American and European enterprise PCs and 97% of small to medium-size business (SMB) PCs
0 Votes
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...
Linux User 147560 17th Apr 2008
You mean the real truth? devil

Then there is this site...

Then there is this article which is a year old...

Then there is this stats chart which is also a year old

[url=http://www.sqlspace.com/viewtopic.php?p=162561#162561]While not completely scientific it's probably closer to reality than your site.[/ur]

Bottom line, just looking at the number of references I have provided AND the wide array of difference, the only thing proven here is that you cannot reliably track or ascertain Linux penetration. Keep trying to spread your false reports and we will keep refuting them! devil
0 Votes
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Then 'splain this Linux user!!!!
mikeholli 28th Apr 2008
Then answer me this Linux user!!!! I have a 386sx @35MHz currently running DOS, I tried to load both Gutsy Gibbon, and Feisty Fawn onto it. NEITHER one of them would install WHAT'S the PROBLEM? So HA! Microsoft Wins! Linux will work on any computer my ARSE!
0 Votes
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I'll splain this to you loser !
None_Zealot 28th Apr 2008
Why can't you install Vista on that old crappy desktop ?
0 Votes
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...
Linux User 147560 17th Apr 2008
You mean the real truth? devil

Then there is this site...

Then there is this article which is a year old...

Then there is this stats chart which is also a year old

While not completely scientific it's probably closer to reality than your site.

Bottom line, just looking at the number of references I have provided AND the wide array of difference, the only thing proven here is that you cannot reliably track or ascertain Linux penetration. Keep trying to spread your false reports and we will keep refuting them! devil

*** You know a preview button sure would be nice!***[/url]
0 Votes
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They won't make that mistake again ...
mwagner@... 18th Apr 2008
... and that is why a 3Q09 RTM launch date for the next release of Windows is likely.
but at least their sick form of capitalism, along with their buddies at the RIAA trying to control the world got a HUGE kick in the teeth. Stupid self interested idiots ...
0 Votes
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They are a mistake
X41 20th May 2008
Microsoft is a mistake. A freak of nature--Like its founder a introverted entity. Bill Bates--(Bill Gates).
0 Votes
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Yes, aren't monopolies...
MacCanuck 17th Apr 2008
a wonderful thing to possess.

And the sun will also rise in the east tomorrow morning.

When you have a market by the balls, you can't lose, no matter how good or bad the product and services.

No surprises here...
0 Votes
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But Microsoft is not a true monopoly!
mwagner@... 18th Apr 2008
Just today, Red Hat said they were staying out of the consumer space because there is not enough money in it.

Apple decided years ago that they were going to sell a premium product only.

There are LOTS of vendors big enough to compete with MS with a Desktop Linux offering but so far only Ubuntu seems to have made the effort to bring OEM's into the consumer 'linux-on-the-desktop' market. Linux vendors need to be serious about competing with MS if they want to increase consumer market share.
0 Votes
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Micrososft is not a true monopoly
fr0thy2 19th Apr 2008
That will be true one day.
0 Votes
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Im gunna make some real dough $.
It doesnt matter if any of you think otherwise.
0 Votes
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As does
jorjitop 28th Apr 2008
the NAG.
Chances are high that the majority of issues you'd run into when moving from XP to Vista, would also occur moving from XP to 7. Even if you plan on skipping actual deployment of Vista, it would be wise to start testing it and learning about the issues that exist for your organization.

P.S. The "decision to phase out XP on the bulk of new PCs, as of July 1" really means nothing to Enterprises, the majority of whom have separate licensing agreements from Microsoft. With these agreements, you can downgrade Vista Business/Enterprise licenses to XP Professional if you want, or even to 2000 or NT 4! So I'd remove the July 1 cutoff from the equation; it really only affects consumers.
0 Votes
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you're right
LiquidLearner 16th Apr 2008
The cutoff means nothing to an enterprise that will be "rolling out" a new OS. It only matters to SMB. I've even got a few sub-100 user clients considering volume licensing business.
0 Votes
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That is a very good argument
Ole Man 17th Apr 2008
To skip Windows altogether.

It just aint gonna get any easier. Either suck it up, or eliminate it.
0 Votes
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RE: Better the Windows Vista devil you know than the Windows 7 one you don't?
dsfwrryd2001-24353660379567082961029011932533 11th Nov
avmqkg,good post!

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