Does the Windows 7 team have too much Apple envy? Readers weigh in

Summary: My recent "plea" to the Windows team to resist the temptation of making Windows 7 more Mac-like didn't fall on deaf ears. While I seriously doubt it influenced many (or any) in Redmond, the post definitely elicited some strong opinions -- both in agreement with and in opposition to -- my premise.

My recent "plea" to the Windows team to resist the temptation of making Windows 7 more Mac-like didn't fall on deaf ears. While I seriously doubt it influenced many (or any) in Redmond, the post definitely elicited some strong opinions -- both in agreement with and in opposition to -- my premise.

A quick recap: Blogger Paul Thurrott recently raised the issue of what constitutes simple (vs. easy) when it comes to operating-system interfaces. Like Thurrott, I worry that Microsoft's Apple envy is leading the Windows team to make some UI choices that could potentially result in Windows 7 looking and working more like Mac OS X than like Windows.

Of course, if you're in the camp that prefers the Mac OS look and feel, Microsoft's OS directions are less worrisome than if you're someone, like me, who prefers the traditional (pre-Vista) Windows UI. (And yes, Mac users -- as impossible as many of you seem to find the concept -- there are people like me who have tried using a Mac but actually prefer Windows. Unlike some readers, I don't favor  Windows because it is more user-customizable or more of a "power-user" platform, as some argue. I am simply more used to Windows and so it is more intuitive for me.)

Hundreds of blog comments and e-mail responses later, I'd say the feedback on my "plea" post fell into two buckets: Those who prefer to insult and/or dismiss anyone who doesn't share their opinions; and those who had interesting points to make.

I waded through the responses and decided to highlight a few that were especially thought-provoking. Here is a sampling of excerpts from readers with views on both sides of the matter:

"I think that Microsoft is (making) a significant error with Windows 7 regarding U.I. This error is to think that the Windows market is as uniform, in terms of wish and of needs of consumers,  as the Apple market.Hence the obvious will to release an experience as close as possible to the Mac experience with Windows. I personally think that not only Microsoft should release several editions but each edition should be optimi(z)ed for different targets. Both the features and  the default U.I must be also optimi(z)ed for the intended target.

"In each mode,there should be a default U.I as well as  the capability for the user to define custom U.I either directly or by GPO." -- timiteh

*****

"I have a mac-mini that I occasionally use for confirming cross-system compatibility with web apps and I use the Dock just because its there.

"However whenever I have tried using utilities that replicate the Dock on Windows I invariably give up on it after a day or two. It looks nice, its funky and has a wow-whiz factor but for getting the job done... quack quack oops!

"Having messed around with the recent (Windows 7) pre-beta nothing inspires me to believe this is an enhancement. In its current form (I'm) just left with a much bigger (and I dont care what they argue about the pixel count..its HUGE) taskbar and just more cluttered objects getting in the way.

"It's work in progress for sure and I do like the Jumplists but if the Superbar happens we also need a Retrobar." --AndyG

*****

"Whilst I entirely agree that copying Mac OS X's form for the sake of fashion would be a bad thing, I think it would be truly excellent if Microsoft would pinch some of Apple's function - although, for preference, I'd like them to wrap it all up in their own UI design. I am a programmer.  I write software for Windows, and I write software for Mac OS X (and Solaris, and VMS).  I know a fair bit about different operating systems.  Mac OS X is, without doubt, the most functional OS I have ever used.

"I'd love to see a truly great version of Windows, one that I can take seriously as an everyday OS.  I'd love Microsoft to put the hold on new features and get the existing ones working properly.  But, until they do, people will continue to buy Windows because everyone else does rather than because it is genuinely the best OS available." -- Pascal Harris (via e-mail)

*****

"Don't make it (Windows 7) too Vista-like is more like it.

  • 'clutter my desktop'
  • 'form over function'
  • 'fancy bells and whistles'
  • 'require a how-to manual'

"How do any of these things apply to the Mac GUI?

"Of course, they all apply to the awful and awkward Vista interface. If this was MS trying to be more Mac-like, then they failed miserably. Let's hope this time Windows will be more Mac-like.

"The Mac GUI by comparison is clean, efficient, simple, easy and intuitive." -- dkawalec

*****

"Windows has always been for the geeks, by the geeks. I think ease of use matters and all, but I still want to control my computer! I will go to Linux if Microsoft dares to eliminate the right click and replace it with drop down lists... "Gaaawh!! Curse the drop down lists, curse them!"  -- W1LL-B1LL

*****

"Unfortunately it seems that Microsoft is on the defensive ever since Apple implemented a strategic marketing attack on Vista. Microsoft may be pulling up along side Apple to gain some of their user base back that they may feel left after Vista.

"If Microsoft wants a slam dunk with Windows 7, then they need to start from scratch. Nix the backwards compatible dependency and start with a more stable, hardware based OS. The design element can be secondary. It's not the design that makes Mac's more dependable/stable. If Microsoft wants to emulate them then they need to start at the root. The rest is just as much smoke and mirrors as it was with Vista."  -- willsloan

Topics: Operating Systems, Apple, CXO, Hardware, Microsoft, Software, Windows

About

Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

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219 comments
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  • Nah...

    ...what they need to do is make it instantly usable by novices and as customisable as it can be for advanced users.

    Don't think it's Apple envy although they would be foolish not to learn from that company's successes.
    Sleeper Service
    • Copy who?

      Nah, then they'd just be copying KDE.
      kozmcrae
      • Two questions...

        1) Would they really?
        2) So what? Learn from your competitors.
        Sleeper Service
      • Copying KDE? Can't imagine it...

        KDE is a nice idea but it has a problem. To be an advanced user you have to be an expert in linux command line. There is a long boring learning curve to how to do that. Who would want to copy that?

        I want to be able to do advanced things via an intuitive universal interface. That is a GUI. I don't care what the name of function X is for platform Y. I just want to use the damn thing.
        SamCPP
        • KDE is easy.

          I have no clue what you are talking about. I get the impression that you have not used KDE. KDE is a highly customizable desktop which you can totally navigate without ever leaving the GUI. No konsoles (that's what they're called in unix, not command lines - thank you) needed.

          Just give it a try. You will become more knowledgeable, and there's less chance of you posting ignorant rants afterwards.
          nizuse
          • KDE for Widows 4.1

            You don't need Linux to run the windows version. If
            they want point and click, well, it's there.

            It's funny. The KDE Windows team makes it look like
            any other windows app, but it can't work the other way
            around. Too bad.
            atari8bit@...
  • Well, since Windows is losing market share to OSX, they are desperate to

    slow down that trend or reverse it. So, of course they want to see what they can copy from Apple where it makes sense.

    They need a little "cool".
    DonnieBoy
    • Oh, here we go again with the whole "desperate" theme

      I see no desperate ones here, except for maybe....

      you?
      GuidingLight
      • Hey, they even paid Seinfeld big bucks to try and slow them down.

        But it backfired. Apple could gain another 5%.
        DonnieBoy
        • Donnie, please. will ya?

          The desperation has been evident here since Vista was announced. The bashing begain before they even started working on it. You konw the ones that forcast how sucky the next windows system will be and they've never used windows for the most part? C'mon Donnie, get with the program and open your eyes. <br><br>
          The desperation poured out of Cupertino and Jobs as he devoted over an hour at WWDC in 06,07 and 08 bashing vista, while the screen shot of Leperd behind him looked more like Vista than an Apple OS. <br><br>
          Think of that Donnie, when Steve Jobs feels he needs to spend that much time at a conference of that magnitude, you know he is worried and desperate. Then came the outright lying and dishonest advertising. <br><br>Since when was MS ever in competition with the Mac? They had no competes for years. MS never bashed the Mac nor spent Billions to try and tarnish it's name. <br><br>
          And you call spending 300 million a waste? They coud come right out and try to kill off the Mac and create untruthful advertising, but they won't do that. <br><br>
          Then people like you have gone bananas trying to knock everything about MS and Vista or any product whatsoever from MS on here in a desperate fashion now since before Vista was to be released. <br><br>
          xuniL_z
          • Get over it...

            Look, Vista got a bashing from the Microsoft community. The Apple community stood by and laughed! How exactly does Leopard resemble Vista? Blinkers off please.
            SimonUK
          • Yes, xuniL_z is delusional

            and a great re-writer of history.

            A mindless, uninformed Apple basher that is usually more wrong than right but if it keeps him off the streets, were all that much safer :-)

            ...
            MacCanuck
          • Another convenient

            story with no facts to support it. <br><br>
            Please let me know when you can refute anything i said.
            <br><br>
            you are gettin lazy, you usually reply with something that looks like you spent an entire weekend working on. ;)
            <br>
            xuniL_z
          • How convenient....

            to ignore Jobs WWDC hour+ rants, 2 successive years before Vista was released. <br><br>
            You also seem to have forgotten that Leopard was pushed back and still came out half baked. <br><br>
            irretrievable data loss ring a bell? No i suppose not with you.
            xuniL_z
  • RE: Does the Windows 7 team have too much Apple envy? Readers weigh in

    I'm an academic and writer and have always found that the functionality and extensibility of Windows worked better for me that either Apple or Linux. I also find that I get more accomplished with a clean desktop. Thus the Windows 7 UI is a major disappointment. Using Apple, I always found that the string of icons running along the bottom of the screen deflected my attention and interfered with my work flow. I suspect that if this is shipped as the default and unchangeable configuration in Windows 7, I'll just stay with Vista.
    historypro
    • @historypro

      You do realized that the "string of icons" aka the Dock,
      running along the bottom of the screen can be moved to the
      left or right as well as hidden? In addition, you can
      add/remove any icon you choose?
      Axsimulate
      • Posters like historypro always shoot

        themselves in the foot with comments like "the functionality and extensibility of Windows worked better for me that either Apple or Linux." it always means that they have never used them. They've probably on ever seen pictures of the desktops
        deaf_e_kate
        • No...

          ...it just means that it suits their needs better.

          Not sure how you can assume that someone hasn't used a variety of operating systems from an opinion. That just seems a little foolish.
          Sleeper Service
          • The fact the poster complained

            about those "annoying" icons getting in the way and being a distraction when they can easily be moved to a different location , hidden from view or have icons removed if it's deemed too cluttered is a major clue that the user doesn't know much about the system or how to use (customize) it. A major problem and issue with some moving from Windows to the Mac (it doesn't work like Windows so it's the Macs fault).

            The Dock preferences are easily found in more than one location (under the Apple icon in the menu bar or clearly labeled with it's own icon in System Preferences).

            ...
            MacCanuck
          • Fair point...

            ...although it may still be the case that the user doesn't know how to do this so ignorance - or a lack of intuitiveness in the UI - may be the issue here.
            Sleeper Service