ie8 fix

Doing the Microsoft patent math

By | April 22, 2008, 7:33am PDT

Just over a year ago, Microsoft officials threw down the patent gauntlet, claiming free and open-source software violated 235 of its patents — but refused (and continue to refuse) to get more specific. Today, thanks to a post by my ZDNet blogging colleague Jason Perlow, there’s a new piece of patent info that should be of interest to those trying to keep score at home.

Last year, Microsoft officials said Linux violated 42 Microsoft patents; Linux GUIs (graphical user interfaces) violated 65; Open Office violated 45; various free/open e-mail programs violated another 15; and assorted, sundry free/open-source software programs violated 68 Microsoft patents. That is as granular as the Redmondians were willing to get.

Today, thanks to a very in-depth analysis by Tom Kemp, CEO of Linux/Unix independent software vendor Centrify, there’s a bit more detail on what Microsoft has patented in the Windows space. Using patent information Microsoft was required to make public by the antitrust watchers with the European Commission, Kemp counted how many Windows Server patents Microsoft has applied for and been awarded.

Among Kemp’s findings:

  • “Of the 125 protocols posted on MSDN (Microsoft Developer Network) for Windows Server, 99 of the 125 protocols have no US patents associated with them, meaning 80% of the Windows server protocols do not have US patents associated with them.” (My note: In other words, 20% are patented.)
  • “Factoring in protocols that also don’t have any US patent applications, 76 of the 125 protocols don’t have any US patents or US patent applications associated with them (60%), meaning 49 of the 125 (40%) do have US patents or US patent applications.”
  • This is just a subset of what’s patented in Windows. “The protocols posted for Windows Server apply to file and print, user and group administration and networking transport features only, not Windows Server features such as IIS. The WSPP (Workgroup Server Protocol Program) protocols also have approximately 25 European Union patents and patent applications.”
  • There are another 50 unique U.S. patents, “in my estimation as of 4/18/2008 the Microsoft Windows OS from a client perspective (all features).”

Remember: In spite of all the “we want to be open and interoperable” rhetoric, Microsoft is making its patented protocols available for licensing, not for free. So this is just a taste of what software vendors would need to pay to license if they want to incorporate any Microsoft patented protocols in their commercial wares.

I wonder how many of the patents that Kemp documented are ones that Microsoft believes Linux and open-source to violate. That would be an interesting map….

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Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

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RE: Doing the Microsoft patent math
makrekwe1701-24353657765681894460463552399314 Updated - 11th Nov
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I fail to see your point?
No_Ax_to_Grind 22nd Apr 2008
Is it that MS is doing like IBM and Sun (open source "supporters") has done for years?
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I fail to see YOUR point
carlino 22nd Apr 2008
I was unaware that it required a ruling, with attendant fines from the European Commission to get IBM and Sun to release patent information.

Oh..That's because it didn't.
0 Votes
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How many has IBM
No_Ax_to_Grind 22nd Apr 2008
sued over patents? LOTS, how many has MS sued? NONE.
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By the way, you are wrong
No_Ax_to_Grind 22nd Apr 2008
IBM did in fact reveal pretty much everything to do with the original PC to appease the US DOJ in their monopoly settlement.
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No...
Hallowed are the Ori 22nd Apr 2008
Is it that MS is doing like IBM and Sun (open source "supporters") has done for years?

It's because Microsoft is evil, and Bill Gates is actually the Antichrist.

Global Warming? Bill Gates' fault.

Cancer? Bill Gates' fault.

The Franco Prussion war? Bill Gates' fault.

The extinction of the dinosaurs? Possibly Microsoft's fault.
0 Votes
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Well, if Mary Jo
No_Ax_to_Grind 22nd Apr 2008
was writing about it your right, everything is Microsoft's fault.
0 Votes
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...
Linux User 147560 22nd Apr 2008
Well if the guidance system that was running Microsoft Windows .000000000001BBG hadn't blue screened... the asteroid would have missed earth! devil
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LOL. (nt)
Hallowed are the Ori 22nd Apr 2008
nt
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I do worry wink
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IT IS ILLEGAL TO USE NON-MS SOFTWARE
fr0thy2 22nd Apr 2008
Get real. Die Microsoft. Die. And soon.
0 Votes
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Frothing at the mouth again...
transposeIT 22nd Apr 2008
Well, if you're gonna wait for MS to die, then I suggest you don't hold your breath. It won't happen probably for another 10 years or more.
0 Votes
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How Many Are good?
carlino 22nd Apr 2008
I wonder how many of these patents would stand up to a concerted effort to challenge them?
As long as the U.S. patent system is broken we'll never know which patents are good valid patents and which are wishful thinking on Microsoft's part, filed to do damage to competitors, rather than to protect "new and useful inventions."
0 Votes
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Simply not true.
No_Ax_to_Grind 22nd Apr 2008
Microosft has NEVER sued anyone over a patent violation. Sun and IBM who are supposedly big open source supporters do it all the time. Hmmm....
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So instead of suing..
Monkey_MCSE 22nd Apr 2008
they "claim" that OSS is using their patents. How is this any different than actually suing someone? Here we have a case of threats, and that's about it, yet no evidence to the contrary. If one of these companies was smart they'd tell MS to put up or shut up, because it does have the potential to hurt their business. Fortunately for MS, these smaller companies don't have the finances of MS and can't fight the apparent BS coming from Balmers mouth. As it stands they are simply claims and nothing more as no proof has ever been given.

If you feel the need to make a fool of yourself, at the very least, get the right group this time. I look forward to you being wrong yet again btw, I know you simply can't resist.
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No need, FSF did it for them.
No_Ax_to_Grind 22nd Apr 2008
Opps, the head lawyer for the FSF. There, does that make you feel better?
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Lost count
Hemlock Stones 22nd Apr 2008
How many time are you going to repeat this lie ? You've been corrected every time and yet you still feel compelled to tell it again and again.
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Re: Lost count
none none 22nd Apr 2008
How many time are you going to repeat this lie ?

How ever many times it takes. The guy's a liar.






happy
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NT
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Still living the delusion
deaf_e_kate 23rd Apr 2008
i see that you still haven't comprehended exactly what the FSF said.

never mind, we all know you are a self-confessed troll.
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Re: So instead of suing..
none none 22nd Apr 2008
How is this any different than actually suing someone?

It's much more effective than suing someone. You keep everybody guessing, especially skittish investors, and you don't run the risk of having your patent portfolio decimated by a court ruling.



happy
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whichs leads me to others points...
Monkey_MCSE 22nd Apr 2008
like how is this even legal? I know it's some blowhard(Balmer) talking out of his rear, but when is enough, enough?.


I knew No_ax would make a fool of himself so I figured easier not to point out his error. It's amusing to show this every time something like this comes along and he never fails to disappoint.
Please, try and be right, just once, for me. Please!
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Wasn't a patent suit
No_Ax_to_Grind 22nd Apr 2008
More of a contractual dispute that ended up being about a patent.
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No, it doesn't
jeff.s.johnson_gems 22nd Apr 2008
Microsoft never sued Lucent to enforce a Microsoft patent. In 2003, they successfully sued to get a ruling of non-infringement of a Lucent patent. Lucent then sued Microsoft over the same patent in 2006..

Similarly, Immersion sued Microsoft and Sony over a patent relating to force-feedback technology in joysticks. Microsoft settled with Immersion first, with terms requiring Immersion to pay money back if they succeeded in getting x money from Sony. Microsoft later sued Immersion for contract violation for breaking this deal.

Microsoft may have sued someone to enforce a patent of theirs - I don't know - but not in the recent Lucent and Immersion squabbles.
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The point was...
zkiwi 22nd Apr 2008
No_Ax bleating that Microsoft had never sued over patents. He was and is wrong. The back story (contract disputes etc) are irrelevant to the fact that Microsoft has sued and does sue over patents.

And if you look closely Microsoft you will in fact find that they (in Feb 2007) claimed in one of the lawsuits between them and Lucent that their patents were infringed by Lucent. Immersion is a bit muddier, and I might be wrong on that one, but... blanket statements that aren't true do bug me.
0 Votes
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No_Ax bleats all the time
deaf_e_kate 23rd Apr 2008
just remember that he lacks the ability to comprehend and that he is a self-confessed troll.
MS spends more time stealing IP than suing (probably due to their lawyers being too busy defending MS in the courts).
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Still wrong
jeff.s.johnson_gems 24th Apr 2008
Microsoft did not initiate the Lucent-Alcatel patent dispute (which is founded in the patent mess around MP3, with multiple companies claiming to hold patents for the technology). They are using patents defensively in this instance (and as a last resort after the initial ruling going against them).

I don't see how anyone can claim that this case is an example of Microsoft flexing its patent portfolio to attack someone. Microsoft appears to have acted properly in this case - they paid one of the MP3 patent holders (Fraunhofer, which invented MP3) for a license. Seems to me Lucent's dispute should be with Fraunhofer, not Microsoft - they may have chosen Microsoft for their deeper pockets and more friendly venue (Fraunhofer is a German company).
0 Votes
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Can't blame MS for doing so
quikboy 22nd Apr 2008
People always say MS copies (and the term is used very loosely) everybody else.

So maybe MS should point out that other people do copy them. And get their just deserts as well.
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We also need to keep in my mind that MS may also be refering to its research publications for which it has copyright protection. Granted it is not as good as a patent, but it is still useful in litigation.
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Wonder
1g2j 22nd Apr 2008
If Microsoft gets a hold of Y! and U.S. Patent Number 6,269,361. I figure the Linux community isn't going be the only ones scared!
0 Votes
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I'm sure!

Yeah, right! You must have forgotten..... everyone does NOT suck the Microsoft teet.
Con fuerte mas Patron! This is a reflection of how Brilliant the Windows Kernel and Avatar have performed.
Though damaged at birth from a flying accident from the cosmic potal that brought me to this place; EE-EE! This country is in so much darn trouble because of Linux and no school lunch coupons for needie children in many cases.
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RE: Doing the Microsoft patent math
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RE: Doing the Microsoft patent math
makrekwe1701-24353657765681894460463552399314 Updated - 11th Nov
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