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Microsoft to build an 'Emacs.Net' text editor

By | December 31, 2007, 6:05am PST

Developers are puzzling over recent clues blogged by a few Microsoft employees regarding a new “Emacs.Net” tool the company is building.

Microsoft’s Connected Systems Division (the folks who developed the Windows Communication Framework, a k a “Indigo”)  is hiring developers  to build a product that team member Doug Purdy described as “Emacs.Net.” Purdy hinted that Microsoft will divulge its Emacs.Net product/strategy plans at the company’s Professional Developers Conference in late October 2008.

Emacs is a text editor used primarily by the Unix community (though versions of Emacs that work on Windows systems already exist). Richard Stallman is credited as the father of Emacs, the name of which was derived from “Editing MACRoS.”

“Emacs is a text editor where a lot of the functionality is written in Lisp. It’s very easy to customize if you can write Lisp code. Maybe by Emacs.NET they mean an Emacs-like editor built on .NET languages (maybe with PowerShell integration) instead of Lisp,” speculated Joel Spolsky, a former Softie and current CEO of Fog Creek Software.

Miguel de Icaza, the Vice President of Developer Platforms at Novell (and force behind Mono and the Linux port of Silverlight, known as Moonlight) also hazarded a guess: “Emacs.Net probably refers to a programming environment, that happens to have an editor, and they would probably replace Lisp with .NET.”

Responding in comments on the Microsoft Channel 9 blog, Microsoft “Chief Modeling Officer” Don Box added a few more bits of information:

There are two kinds of emacs users: those who start up emacs in a top-level window and use M-x shell to do shell work, and those who live in tcsh/ksh/bash and crank up emacs -nw to take over their console/terminal window.

“I was always in the former camp, and I believe that’s the design point for Doug (Purdy)’s project.  If you look up and down our hallway, all other remaining emacs users are in that former camp as well.”

No one has said anything about how the forthcoming Emacs.Net tool will work with Microsoft’s PowerShell, the Unix-like command-line interface and scripting shell that Microsoft is building into a number of its products, ranging from Exchange Server, to Windows Server 2008.

What’s your take on what an “Emacs.Net” will look like?

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Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

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Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

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RE: Microsoft to build an 'Emacs.Net' text editor
dfwekrwe51-24353616954990749500989615638452 Updated - 12th Nov
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I think it is going to be advanced text editor which is extendable.

What Microsoft really lack is a decent text editor that can be run inside the four wall of the terminal console/Command Prompt. As sysadmin do more and more work using the terminal console, lack of an advanced text editor inside the four walls is becoming more and more a hindrance.

Like emacs, it will allow addition of extra capabilities : IDE-like if you are programming, text editing if you are working on text file and since it is a good idea, probably a way to connect/download and display html pages (as text pages).

It's a good idea. If my prediction is correct, then it means command line had not died but is experiencing a resurgence at Microsoft
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Actually...
John L. Ries 31st Dec 2007
Regular GNU Emacs (not just xemacs) has GUIs for (at least), X, 32-bit Windows, and the OS/2 Presentation Manager. Not as flashy as what xemacs offers, but definitely functional.
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What good is that?
John L. Ries 31st Dec 2007
Half the reason I use Emacs at all is because it's easy to pop up the GUI version and keep my terminal session free (I use vi for quick and dirty road repairs).

I suppose that MS can make their own Emacs if they want to (as long as they don't use FSF code without following their rules), but it does need to have at least the most important capabilities of GNU Emacs (to include at least as good of a GUI as GNU Emacs provides on the Windwos side), or nobody's going to use it. A quick and dirty port of ancient public domain Emacs is a waste of time.
Emacs (the name) is just a combination of the "special" keys that it gave people to do stuff. Why would they need a clone of the old Unix editor ported to Windows?
you may find it quite useful.
And it has already been ported to Windows !!!
http://xemacs.org/
At no point in my life (from college to managing everything from Solaris to various flavors of Linux to HP-UX to AIX to Wndows (anything) to BSD to touching IRIX and several other dead flavors of Unix have I ever needed emacs. And where on a QWERTY keyboard is the Meta key? Remember, Emacs is an acronym for the Escape Meta Alt Control Shift (as it allows for mapping of all of these keys) and is heavily LISP oriented (though you can use C++ now).

for some things, it is just easier to do something like:
# cat >> /etc/sysctl EOF

Windows equivalent is:
COPY CON somefilename
...

Emacs is just a heavy editor ported to a bunch of platforms.
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I smell a troll.
shoktai@... 3rd Jan 2008
Now you're just trolling. Emacs is not an acronym. The meta key is typically the Alt key on Windows keyboards, but Unix keyboards (with dedicated meta keys) are also QWERTY. And to compare emacs to cat or COPY CON is like comparing Visual Studio to Notepad.
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On the surface it doesn't seem like an idea with much value, but I guess since we really have no idea where they are going with this, it's too early to make judgments at this time.
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Another nail in the UNIX coffin...
Mike Cox 31st Dec 2007
I questioned the importance of this with my rep this morning over lattes and scones. He silently sat there for about 1 minute, and then said "the release of EMACS.NET is part of the master plan to extinguish Stallman". What utter brilliance! Microsoft will win hearts and minds with a new EMACS tool that will crush the competition. BRILLIANT!
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Now I'm Intrigued
DannyO_0x98 31st Dec 2007
Any hints from your rep as to what next Microsoft will develop to vi for our attentions?
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Leave my vi alone!
Kaiwai 2nd Jan 2008
Leave the beautiful vi alone - I don't want it to be bastardised and fused into something disgustingly complicated like EMACS.
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Your Rep is a genius
Nemglan 2nd Jan 2008
Absolutely. And, of course, Don Box is a massive, bearded longhaired hippie (who makes a point of using the DOS emulator, in order to launch the DOS emulator) so clearly he is their intended replacement for Stallman. I promise you: I've met the man! He even smells of stale beer and Chinese food, sometimes! Perfect!

(I take it is title of "Chief Modelling officer" does not relate to glamour modelling).

You haven't lived until you've run VI on Vista, or Emacs on an iMac! Welcome to the 21st Century. Please form an orderly queue.
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VI.NET!!
Voodoo187 31st Dec 2007
I don't care, I just use EditPlus. Notepad is so weak, Windows is the only operating system I HAVE to install a text editor. Linux of course is text editing heaven, I personally use Gnome and GEdit. On my Mac, I use TextMate, which incurs a relatively hefty charge for a "text editor", but after a trial version I found it's so much more, but Mac's default isn't terrible.
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No, really: vi.net
Jason Etheridge 31st Dec 2007
Personally, I would buy a genuine vi-clone, if vi.net was exactly that. Gvim keeps me going on Windows in the meantime.
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I would personally prefer
Suicida| 1st Jan 2008
dotnet.vim

Nice syntax file would be fine.
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I've always joked that emacs is one upgrade away from being an OS... I guess this is sort of the same concept the other way around.
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Years ago, when the internet was really starting to take off and executives were rubbing their wallets thinking ???how can I cash-in on this internet craze???? Meanwhile, Microsoft executives were really starting to sweat how they were going to complete with Netscape and remain competitive in this new internet based world. The MS Windows team was worried about future prospects ...

Pingback:
http://dataland.wordpress.com/2007/12/31/microsoft-emacsnet/
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Message has been deleted.
Dataland Updated - 3rd Jan 2008
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Who is dataland
GuidingLight 2nd Jan 2008
and do they matter at all?

Probally not.
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Can't wait to see performance data comparing EMACS.Net to EMACS running natively under Linux.

When will we get ISPF.Net? For that matter, whaddabout EDLIN.Net?
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I have not read all the above comments, but emacs is one of the greatest programs ever written. It is programmable from the bottom up and represents what software should be because it is highly customizable. I am eagerly waiting to see it. I support Microsoft's IronPython and I anticipate being able to use it instead of emacs lisp, which I have used.
of their own choice, so this will impact little your activities. Now, if they were building your Macs, big difference for some of you.
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Emacs, it's not just an editor...
wolf_z 2nd Jan 2008
...it's a way of life.

And if you don't understand that you never used Emacs. happy
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Emacs is the most user-viscous
editor out there. Many
contractors like myself refuse
contracts that involve Emacs.
There arn't many anyway.
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A true visionary concept...
Cardinal_Bill 2nd Jan 2008
just like a friend of mine had. Way back in the days of Window 3.0 he put out a "shareware" package of "Edlin for Windows", $0.05 for a perpetual license good in this life and any future incarnations. It consisted of the docs and a PIF. If you didn't like it all you needed to do was send him a self addressed stamped envelope and he would mail you your nickel back.
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I'm waiting for TECO.NET
jtdavies 2nd Jan 2008
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VBA Editor replacement
p.zurek@... 2nd Jan 2008
Well, maybe it's an attempt to kill off VBA and provide all applications that use it with a tool that will enable using .Net languages instead. The current VBA editor that ships with a lot of application is not developed since 2001 (?) and it's probably high time to replace it with something more usable.
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VBA > VSTO
mswift@... 2nd Jan 2008
You need to check out VSTO which is the replacement for VBA.

http://blogs.msdn.com/vsto2/
I have Visual Studio 2005 Standard Edition. How can VSTO be a replacement for VBA if I don't have Visual Studio 2005/2008 Professional for me to develop macros and maybe "mini" applications? I do have Microsoft Office 2007 Professional.
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Isn't VSTO for Office only?
p.zurek@... 4th Jan 2008
I may be wrong but VSTO seems to be intended for use with the Office and I was talking about third party applications (like AutoCAD) which AFAIK still ships VBA. We'll see, maybe version 2009 of AutoCAD will ship something different.
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this is about AI in office apps - think mathematica meets word meets .net
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'Emacs.Net'?
CodeCurmudgeon 3rd Jan 2008
If this were a few months later, I'd swear this was an April fools joke. . .

I've never cared for the UNIX terminal-type editors, but of course I transitioned from editing programs with QED (on a Honeywell mainframe at the university) to P-edit (WordPerfect's programming editor) on a Data General mini, years before the IBM PC came out, in the era when UNIX was strictly for AT&T internal consumption and academic use. . .

Sometimes I wonder what would have become of UNIX if the open source paradigm had been around in the monopoly days of AT&T. I bet UNIX would have been open-sourced, and software development would have leaped ahead as a result.

OTOH I understand the guys who wrote Data General's operating system were mostly ex-Bell Labs guys who thought it was silly to write operating systems in C and therefore created a UNIX-like system in DG's assembler...
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Microsoft cloning Linux?
masonph@... 29th Jan 2008
I think it's very amusing that Microsoft seems to be (as of late) trying to copy Linux (and Mac too) in all their new software. The Mac look in Vista, now Emacs and a Unix-like command interpreter... What's next? Winbuntu?

p.s. even though they try to mimic others' look and functionality, they'll always be #1 in system instability...
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I am very happy learning this.

First time when I used powershell, I thought that this could be a more robust replacement of emacs lisp (for MS OS). I appreciate Microsoft?s decision, this is very intelligent decision.

As an emacs user I can say that emacs is a revolution, it?s a not only a text editor but an environment which can be customized according to your requirement. (This is sometime criticized as emacs an OS lacking editor). Its versatility is unmatched and this is all due to lisp (emacs lisp).

Powershell is one of the most robust scripting languages and creating an editor using it will be a very helpful especially for programmers and administrator.

I give my best of wishes to Microsoft. But request them to be ethical and make it open source, if they do that I am sure even Richard Stallman will appreciate this.
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RE: Microsoft to build an 'Emacs.Net' text editor
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RE: Microsoft to build an 'Emacs.Net' text editor
dfwekrwe51-24353616954990749500989615638452 Updated - 12th Nov
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